syncronius Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) no, not another marauder suck topic. Rather a 'whats wrong with us' and suggestions to devs. Knowing there are a load of trolls out there this will deffo be trolled alot Issues: * Using smash while getting knockedback results in smash not dealing dmg but it still going into a global cooldown.( confirmed by others) *Smashing while moving is off, and in several cases, the target is standing in the radius, but not being effected by it. (confirmed by others) * when force charging an opponent, u often fall down of ramps. (huttball) (confirmed by others) * Force charge an opponent while he is charging someone else, result in you being in the starting position of your opponent while he is somewhere else... (came code issue?, confirmed by others) *Force choke often not stunning the target but still ticking the damage. Same with carnage, even while talented) (game code issue) * very squishy in early pvp (reply's disagree, tho reading through the forums i'm seeing lots of people with this issue) * very very steep learning curve (reply's disagree, but not everyone enjoys a class with alot of skills) *hard to solo groups of 2 silver mobs because of lack of CC. Yes we have a fear, but it only lasts for 8 seconds wich is way to short in pve. Increasing the time on it could solve it and Diminishing returns on CC will solve the issue in pvp. (reading through the forums i am not the only one with this problem, could be a gear issue/playstyle issue or a lack of class understanding, reply's disagree) suggestions *open to discussion* *For pvp, add in a talent in one of the tree's that makes a marauder resist knockbacks for a very short period of time. Or give us a 30-50% chance in one of the defensive skills to resist them. (50/50 agree/disagree) *Lower the cooldown on our CC breaker and interrupt. (cc breaker cooldown desirable) *reduce the amount of skills that both a marauder and a juggernaut have for easier gameplay. not saying we want a faceroll class, but some room for improvement is desirable. *Juggernauts can have a dps spec while still wearing heavy armour. Wich is a big advantage in 1v1 fights. Either give the marauder a talent in the upper tree's that enable's us to wear heavy armour, or only permit the juggernaut to wear heavy armour while in the defensive talent tree. (most reply's seem to disagree and are happy with the way it is) *In huttball sorcerers can sprint trough the fire without taking the dmg that another class does. Charging them does not affect them, because u end up in the fire and the sorcerer is already way past it. Make it so that as soon as charge is started, the stun is instantly applied instead of when u actually reach your target. (changes in the game code could fix this recording to posters) *While other classes mostly have 2 playstyles to choose from, either dps/heal or dps/tank the marauder can only do dps. But lets be fair, we do not have the damage output that the other classes have. I have played all the others and we deffo are at the bottom when it comes to dps output. Some more clarity in the talent trees would be desirable. For example 2 talent trees for dps pve with its own playstyle and 1 tree focused on pvp with more cc/stuns/speed/healing boost ability's. ( reply's considered this might be to early to implement) more suggestions/comments are welcome. Edited February 20, 2012 by syncronius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yescek Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 no, not another marauder suck topic. Rather a 'whats wrong with us' and suggestions to devs. Knowing there are a load of trolls out there this will deffo be trolled alot Issues: * Using smash while getting knockedback results in smash not dealing dmg but it still going into a global cooldown. *Smashing while moving is off, and in several cases, the target is standing in the radius, but not being effected by it. * when force charging an opponent, u often fall down of ramps. (huttball) * Force charge an opponent while he is charging someone else, result in you being in the starting position of your opponent while he is somewhere else... *Force choke often not stunning the target but still ticking the damage. * very squishy in early pvp * very very steep learning curve *hard to solo groups of 2 silver mobs because of lack of CC. Yes we have a fear, but it only lasts for 8 seconds wich is way to short in pve. Increasing the time on it could solve it and Diminishing returns on CC will solve the issue in pvp. suggestions *open to discussion* *For pvp, add in a talent in one of the tree's that makes a marauder resist knockbacks for a very short period of time. Or give us a 30-50% chance in one of the defensive skills to resist them. *Lower the cooldown on our CC breaker and interrupt. *reduce the amount of skills that both a marauder and a juggernaut have for easier gameplay. not saying we want a faceroll class, but some room for improvement is desirable. *Juggernauts can have a dps spec while still wearing heavy armour. Wich is a big advantage in 1v1 fights. Either give the marauder a talent in the upper tree's that enable's us to wear heavy armour, or only permit the juggernaut to wear heavy armour while in the defensive talent tree. *In huttball sorcerers can sprint trough the fire without taking the dmg that another class does. Charging them does not affect them, because u end up in the fire and the sorcerer is already way past it. Make it so that as soon as charge is started, the stun is instantly applied instead of when u actually reach your target. *While other classes mostly have 2 playstyles to choose from, either dps/heal or dps/tank the marauder can only do dps. But lets be fair, we do not have the damage output that the other classes have. I have played all the others and we deffo are at the bottom when it comes to dps output. Some more clarity in the talent trees would be desirable. For example 2 talent trees for dps pve with its own playstyle and 1 tree focused on pvp with more cc/stuns/speed/healing boost ability's. more suggestions/comments are welcome. I agree with the bolded but not with the italicized. Mara's are SUPPOSED to be hard. If you can master the class, we're hands down top DPS. Try as you might to argue that, you're still wrong. The issue is SKILL, not the class itself. No offense, most Marauders suck *** at it, thought that's slowly changing. As a Carnage Marauder myself, I LOVE smashing bad ones. If you'll notice, I bolded AND italicized the bit about armor. I'm on the fence about that one, I really don't think it's necessary. We do NOT need a lower CD on our interrupt, as we already have arguably more interrupting attacks than any other class in the whole game. We get thrown around like rag dolls, so i'm fine with a talented KB resistance. I think we need to get Force Pull back, the devs took it from us, we had it in beta. Granted, I think you might need to think about that a bit because that has the potential to make us OP. Still though, something needs to be done about all the knockback. Eh idk. Most of the whiners about this class really DO need to l2p. Say whatever you want, that IS the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannaroth Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) I fear charge cant be fixed. If u charge someone, the game calculate your landing position with your target current position as reference, and u will always land straight in front of him depending on the direction u were facing the target. So if he's on the edge of a platform and you charge u will probably land in a position where the platform is already over, so you fall down. Same issue when un charge a target that is charging (:v) if your charge imput get to the server before his one, the game takes as reference his starting position and u'll end up there, while him is already gone. It's a matter of coordinates, cant be helped :S They coud fix desync, charge being affected by huttball turbine and charge being negleted by knockbacks tho. Force choke and ravage failing are annoying and stupid too, though I think they are affected by resolve somehow since have both a root mechanic (even if it's not talented ravage can be considered as a rooot by the game) Edited February 19, 2012 by Mannaroth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobaFurz Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 For pvp, add in a talent in one of the tree's that makes a marauder resist knockbacks for a very short period of time. Or give us a 30-50% chance in one of the defensive skills to resist them. How many more abilities does this class needs, if it would be passive alright but rather fix the current CC issues in group pvp. Iam getting cced even my resolve bar is full. 2 knockbacks alone are filling the resolve bar by only 55-60%...this is nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syncronius Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 I agree with the bolded but not with the italicized. Mara's are SUPPOSED to be hard. If you can master the class, we're hands down top DPS. Try as you might to argue that, you're still wrong. The issue is SKILL, not the class itself. No offense, most Marauders suck *** at it, thought that's slowly changing. As a Carnage Marauder myself, I LOVE smashing bad ones. If you'll notice, I bolded AND italicized the bit about armor. I'm on the fence about that one, I really don't think it's necessary. We do NOT need a lower CD on our interrupt, as we already have arguably more interrupting attacks than any other class in the whole game. We get thrown around like rag dolls, so i'm fine with a talented KB resistance. I think we need to get Force Pull back, the devs took it from us, we had it in beta. Granted, I think you might need to think about that a bit because that has the potential to make us OP. Still though, something needs to be done about all the knockback. Eh idk. Most of the whiners about this class really DO need to l2p. Say whatever you want, that IS the issue. U are right, and it might be because i dont have full columni yet that i feel that my dps is lower then others. And you are right, we do have plenty of other interrupting attacks, but if close charge fails to do so, if force choke fails to do so, if smash isnt responding correctly then there's not much left to interrupt. The force pull... ive often wondered why they took it out... making us op... dunno, its the same when a sniper is in cover... u cant charge him but u would be able to force pull him? It would also be an ability that could counter a knockback in huttball. Because as we all know, thats the warzone where knockbacks are TERRIBLE for us marauders. I can hear people say: dont start with force charge, by the time that i'll get there, i'll be slowed, and my health would be down by 35%. Thus still getting punched by a knockback, while still taking damage, Force charge up to him, and another sorcerer will just knock me back down as there are so many of them. How many times has that happen to you... while with force pull... we could solo out the sorcerer that knocked you down and then the fights back on. As for armour, i understand u are on the fence about that one, for me it feels a bit unfair when seeing juggernauts as high or just a bit lower as me on the damage list but with 5 medals more because of the defense they are putting out. To the poster above me, i would not put it in as a new skill, i would make it a PART of an existing skill that can be improved through talents. For example if u pop Cloack of pain, then u could talent that (for example in the rage tree) that u gain 20% at first point, 30% at 2nd point and 40% at 3rd point to be able to resist a knockback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrekorSilverfang Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 *For pvp, add in a talent in one of the tree's that makes a marauder resist knockbacks for a very short period of time. Or give us a 30-50% chance in one of the defensive skills to resist them. I'm not sure this is a good idea. First off % chance to resist knockbacks is a great rage inducer for both us and people trying to knock us back, it's generally an... anti-fun mechanic which just doesn't work well. *Lower the cooldown on our CC breaker and interrupt. Shorter cooldown on CC breaker I don't really agree on but you can talent force camo to break roots/snares in carnage which is basically a 45s break for most things that give us trouble. The interrupt is short enough already. *reduce the amount of skills that both a marauder and a juggernaut have for easier gameplay. not saying we want a faceroll class, but some room for improvement is desirable. Can you be specific on what you would remove? I mean you could take retaliation and the pve only skills I wouldn't miss them but pretty much everything else I use and use regularly. *Juggernauts can have a dps spec while still wearing heavy armour. Wich is a big advantage in 1v1 fights. Either give the marauder a talent in the upper tree's that enable's us to wear heavy armour, or only permit the juggernaut to wear heavy armour while in the defensive talent tree. An interesting story... Juggs in DPS spec(veng/rage) with heavy armor take more damage than we do thanks to our cooldowns. Without ANY cooldowns the difference is 5-10% so still not huge. Without heavy armor Juggs would be incredibly squishy(they already are when DPS'ing) *In huttball sorcerers can sprint trough the fire without taking the dmg that another class does. Charging them does not affect them, because u end up in the fire and the sorcerer is already way past it. Make it so that as soon as charge is started, the stun is instantly applied instead of when u actually reach your target. They still take damage it's just usually only 1 tick which is absorbed by shield. They are also rooted the moment the skill is activated however because of how fast they are moving there is frequently synch issues that cause them to be 5-10m passed where you charge to. Optimization of net code on BW's side should resolve this. *While other classes mostly have 2 playstyles to choose from, either dps/heal or dps/tank the marauder can only do dps. But lets be fair, we do not have the damage output that the other classes have. I have played all the others and we deffo are at the bottom when it comes to dps output. Some more clarity in the talent trees would be desirable. For example 2 talent trees for dps pve with its own playstyle and 1 tree focused on pvp with more cc/stuns/speed/healing boost ability's. more suggestions/comments are welcome. Completely changing class mechanics at this point is not a good idea, perhaps in beta or at an expansion but you are toying with an idea that may cause(or force) people to reroll to something else very easily with this idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibaken Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 The Juggernaut Heavy Armor complaint in 1v1 is completely unsounded. The defensive cool-downs we have at our disposal make Juggernauts look like paper. On top of that Annihilation is internal damage, Carnage ignores 100% armor for 6 seconds and Rage has 20% passive Armor Penetration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herblaw Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 * very squishy in early pvp * very very steep learning curve *hard to solo groups of 2 silver mobs because of lack of CC. Yes we have a fear, but it only lasts for 8 seconds wich is way to short in pve. Increasing the time on it could solve it and Diminishing returns on CC will solve the issue in pvp Do not agree with these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumri Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) The only flaw with the class is we'll be sub par for raid comps once dual-spec comes out. People use basically the same gear to dps and heal and being pure DPS AC that's melee puts us in a bad position. They need to make us the top PvE DPS to compensate for our lack of versitility(much like there's STILL a 5% difference between pures and hybrids in WoW). Currently we're approximately in the middle in terms of DPS across the board. The little usability bugs(?) with things like Smash should be fixed. Your other suggestions are a bit much I think. Edited February 20, 2012 by Tumri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmov Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) * Using smash while getting knockedback results in smash not dealing dmg but it still going into a global cooldown. Yep,sucks for rage specc. *Smashing while moving is off, and in several cases, the target is standing in the radius, but not being effected by it. same * when force charging an opponent, u often fall down of ramps. (huttball) Happens and its annoying. *Force choke often not stunning the target but still ticking the damage. Can be due to cc immunity. * very squishy in early pvp Not really. * very very steep learning curve Nope. *hard to solo groups of 2 silver mobs because of lack of CC. Yes we have a fear, but it only lasts for 8 seconds wich is way to short in pve. Increasing the time on it could solve it and Diminishing returns on CC will solve the issue in pvp. Havent had this problem.Also there is no DR in pvp.There is resolve system that is meh. *For pvp, add in a talent in one of the tree's that makes a marauder resist knockbacks for a very short period of time. Or give us a 30-50% chance in one of the defensive skills to resist them. Marauder already hard to shake off. *Lower the cooldown on our CC breaker and interrupt. I believe we already have best interrupt in-game. *reduce the amount of skills that both a marauder and a juggernaut have for easier gameplay. not saying we want a faceroll class, but some room for improvement is desirable. Would be nice but i dont see how that is possible without massive class overhaul. *Juggernauts can have a dps spec while still wearing heavy armour. Wich is a big advantage in 1v1 fights. Either give the marauder a talent in the upper tree's that enable's us to wear heavy armour, or only permit the juggernaut to wear heavy armour while in the defensive talent tree. Juggers will give their left nut for our Cloak and blind. *In huttball sorcerers can sprint trough the fire without taking the dmg that another class does. Charging them does not affect them, because u end up in the fire and the sorcerer is already way past it. Make it so that as soon as charge is started, the stun is instantly applied instead of when u actually reach your target. Balancing class cuz of another class in 1 wz?pls no.Will introduce bugs and stuff. *While other classes mostly have 2 playstyles to choose from, either dps/heal or dps/tank the marauder can only do dps. But lets be fair, we do not have the damage output that the other classes have. I have played all the others and we deffo are at the bottom when it comes to dps output. Some more clarity in the talent trees would be desirable. For example 2 talent trees for dps pve with its own playstyle and 1 tree focused on pvp with more cc/stuns/speed/healing boost ability's. Carnage is bugged for pve,rage sucks for pve.No combat log. Edited February 20, 2012 by cosmov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christonya Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 *Juggernauts can have a dps spec while still wearing heavy armour. Wich is a big advantage in 1v1 fights. Either give the marauder a talent in the upper tree's that enable's us to wear heavy armour, or only permit the juggernaut to wear heavy armour while in the defensive talent tree. And assassins that arnt specced tank tear like tissue with light armor, vs mauraders with a near perma 20% damage reduction effectively putting them at heavy armor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syncronius Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 @ DrekorSilverfang i'll go deeper into this later today as i'm currently at work. Thx to all for all the feedback, very interesting to see how others feel about changes. Though if possible what would YOU like to see different? How would you improve/change the way a marauder currently plays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderbubble Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I've gotten to the point where I think that Marauders are perfectly balanced. Sorcerors/Sages are just the most broken class I've ever seen in any game, however. They have everything: Survivability, Escape, Damage, Healing, CC up the wazoo. That should not be happening. Marauders aren't underpowered. Some classes are just painstakingly broken. On the other hand, OP, yes, you are absolutely right on most of the things you mentioned. Then again half of those are dumb bugs that shouldn't even exist TWO months after the game's release. I can't imagine they're as hard to fix as they are for us to play with, considering BW has immense budgets to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syncronius Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 I've gotten to the point where I think that Marauders are perfectly balanced. Sorcerors/Sages are just the most broken class I've ever seen in any game, however. They have everything: Survivability, Escape, Damage, Healing, CC up the wazoo. That should not be happening. Marauders aren't underpowered. Some classes are just painstakingly broken. On the other hand, OP, yes, you are absolutely right on most of the things you mentioned. Then again half of those are dumb bugs that shouldn't even exist TWO months after the game's release. I can't imagine they're as hard to fix as they are for us to play with, considering BW has immense budgets to work with. atleast the skill delay is fixed already, so lets hope that the rest follows pretty fast.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaDedBriLLianCe Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 If they make another change to the Marauder. All that i want to see is a neew CC, or at least extend the effect of existing ones, and maybe a Defense tree option, or increased survivability. I mean We have 2 sabers. You'd figure the Marauders would be able to block with both. I mean I know this is the strongest dps class when you are a skilled player (i have no probs), but in PvP everyone hits the marauders 1st, and noobs can't hack it. Or bettr yet add a mechanic for marauders to in pvp so we dont have to face the enemy to attack. make it more like PVE for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishpierre Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Fix the issues that you have listed as "game code" issues as well as the Smash not dealing damage/getting knocked back. Everything else is roughly learning how to play. I was more squishy on my Immortal Jugg <20 than my Marauder <20. You -should- be able to handle two Silver mobs without a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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