Reeny Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Legendary items should NOT come from raids. Only a very small percentage of players raid and if you make legendary items available only from raids, an even tinier percentage will have it. Dont make it so that only a fraction of a fraction of players will even have it. Make it so that anyone can go through a long, expensive process to obtain it. But dont restrict it to a subset of raiding people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitigated Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Legendary items should NOT come from raids. Only a very small percentage of players raid and if you make legendary items available only from raids, an even tinier percentage will have it. Dont make it so that only a fraction of a fraction of players will even have it. Make it so that anyone can go through a long, expensive process to obtain it. But dont restrict it to a subset of raiding people. it wont matter, i am sure the boss fight that drops the legendary will be bugged and unattainable anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weaksauce Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I disagree, the purples obtained from crafting, HM FP, and daily commendation grinding are sufficient for any solo content. Without hard or nightmare mode solo content there is no reason to go beyond those basic tiers unless you just want to trivialize combat. 126 armor rating is good enough, any higher is unnecessary if you have no desire to raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunwindIon Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) Only a very small percentage of players raid maybe back when WoW came out and 0.001% of players ever saw the inside of Naxx, but raiding is very accessable these days and legendary items should obviously come from them, why not? why do you think you deserve the best item ingame from doing a few rounds of PVP or a flashpoint? or even a class quest? gimme a frellin' break. entitled kids are entitled. I disagree, the purples obtained from crafting, HM FP, and daily commendation grinding are sufficient for any solo content. Without hard or nightmare mode solo content there is no reason to go beyond those basic tiers unless you just want to trivialize combat. 126 armor rating is good enough, any higher is unnecessary if you have no desire to raid. Exactly, why do you need legendary items if you aren't raiding? answer is you don't. Edited February 19, 2012 by SunwindIon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirsri Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 maybe back when WoW came out and 0.001% of players ever saw the inside of Naxx, but raiding is very accessable these days and legendary items should obviously come from them, why not? why do you think you deserve the best item ingame from doing a few rounds of PVP or a flashpoint? or even a class quest? gimme a frellin' break. entitled kids are entitled. Exactly, why do you need legendary items if you aren't raiding? answer is you don't. I could see an argument for legendaries from PVP if they had some sort of ranking system and organized teams. But then you'd just be advantaging the best team over all the others even further. SWTOR doesn't really have raiding. 8 person groups that you can do an instance in 45 minutes isn't a raid. 40 people needing 3 hours is barely a raid. It is, as you say hugely more accessible, and anyone who has some sort of mental block impairing them from seeing an 8 person 45 minute group twice a week as a really gentle commitment to a game you spent 100+ hours leveling in needs to get over their mental block, not complain about it. You can spend a lot more time than 2 hours a week, especially if you have a bad group or whatever (as my guild currently does) but really, the commitment required to get the best gear in SWTOR is about as minimal as you can get and still be challenging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Dont make it so that only a fraction of a fraction of players will even have it. If something is 'legendary' shouldn't/doesn't that mean that very few people have it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyersfan Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 If something is 'legendary' shouldn't/doesn't that mean that very few people have it? I agree with this. Legendary items should be hard to obtain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uruare Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) Oh lordy, here's this argument again. Ten Years of Bullsith, condensed: Team Raid: You don't need top gear if you're not raiding, be happy with non-raid stuff for non-raid content. Team Everyone Else: But we're all paying the same fee and want equal opportunity to have the best stuff. Team Raid: So go raid, everyone has equal opportunity to raid. Team Everyone Else: No, we don't all have equal opportunity to raid because we don't all have equal access to people to raid with. Team Raid: So get a guild, make friends, stop being bad, etcetera, then raid. Team Everyone Else: But we've got guilds and friends and we're not bad, or wouldn't stay bad any longer than you did before you knew a raid; the problem is time. Team Raid: Maybe this game just isn't for you. Team Everyone Else: Bullsith, it's that we don't have time to raid, which is about raiding, not playing the other 95% of the game. Team Raid: So be happy with non-raid content and non-raid gear. Team Everyone Else: NO! Team Raid: GDIAF! Stop being lazy! I can do it, I've been doing it since December of 1408, I raided for 800,000 years and practically invented not standing in the bad with 500 other people, it's all E-Z Mode anymore and you're just too lazy to do it! Team Everyone Else: Don't care! We've had the same problems since 1408 when we couldn't raid for 800,000 years because our Husband-Wife-Job-Kids-Disabilities-Different Opinions-Time constraints didn't Allow/Enable/Encourage/Help us do so! Team Raid: You're all bads. GDIAF. Team Everyone Else: Raid finder pl0x! Team Raid: NO! Mass hysteria! Team Everyone Else: Raid finder pl0x! Team Raid: OM EFF'n G NO, NO AND NO SOME MORE! Don't ever have one or the earth will explode in a giant fireball and everyone will DIE! Team Everyone Else: Raid finder pl0x! Eventual Bioware Announcement: We're pleased to announce, for patch A.B.CD, our new Operation Roster! Now you'll be able to match-make and team up for the most challenging content with just a few simple clicks on our shiny new Roster GUI, now with 'O'god please make the people outside the building with pitchforks go home, we haven't seen our families in weeks.' technology! Team Raid: NOOOOOOOOOOOARGHAKJASL:KJSGKJJSKNEHNJKL:SD:KLGJ!!11!!11!!1!!one!!!1!1eleven!!1KL:!jklj!!!! We're unsubscribing NAO! Team Everyone Else: Hey, remember that thing you told us about dying in a fire? GDIAF. Ten years ago is that way. ----------> Oh, and we win. Team Raid: A*()UJI#TKL:SDKSL:DFKJ *)#UJ)JI WKLSDJF WE HATE YOU ALL! You destroyed the game/our lives/our will to live/the internet! Team Everyone Else: *The user you are trying to verbally abuse cannot be reached for comment at this time. Please leave a message on the Operation Roster sign-up page if you'd like to contact this user!* Team Raid: AKJKLJ*(UJSDLKFJWKJPIOSJDF!!!!!!! The end. Edited February 19, 2012 by Uruare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecke Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 maybe back when WoW came out and 0.001% of players ever saw the inside of Naxx, but raiding is very accessable these days and legendary items should obviously come from them, why not? why do you think you deserve the best item ingame from doing a few rounds of PVP or a flashpoint? or even a class quest? gimme a frellin' break. entitled kids are entitled. Exactly, why do you need legendary items if you aren't raiding? answer is you don't. For the record, I am 100% fine with legendary gear only being available through raids. I also agree that it's unnecessary gear for someone that doesn't raid anyway. I just wanted to make that clear before I go on. However, completely disagree that the OP's post even hinted at entitlement. I don't see how the OP's post is any more "entitled" than yours. The OP asked to be able to obtain this gear through a "Long and expensive process." You think it should be reserved for people that group up with a large group of other people and kill a single mob. The OP He wasn't asking for the gear to be handed to him. He specifically stated he wants it to be HARDER to get than it is from raiding. He simply doesn't want it restricted to one gameplay style. While I don't care enough to have an opinion on the matter, I do think it's a perfectly valid suggestion (whether we agree with it or not) and it's most definitely not the OP asking for something to just be handed to him. He specifically stated he wants it to be difficult to obtain. I just think the insult at the end there was unnecessary and untrue, whether you agree with him or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoxiousAlby Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) Legendary items should NOT come from raids. Only a very small percentage of players raid and if you make legendary items available only from raids, an even tinier percentage will have it. Dont make it so that only a fraction of a fraction of players will even have it. Make it so that anyone can go through a long, expensive process to obtain it. But dont restrict it to a subset of raiding people. Your a brave poster Reeny, now the special snowflake squad will be out to flame you for even suggesting such a thing. Let me explain something to you, Swtor is no different to wow only easier. Both games have the holy trinity, level --> dungeons --> raid, only here it''s level --> fashpoint --> Op's This is the raid or die mentality, like you I had hoped for something different & innovative but instead all we got was more of the same. I hear GW2 may be very different but apart from that i'm pinning my hopes on project Titan. Edited February 26, 2012 by NoxiousAlby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excid Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 it wont matter, i am sure the boss fight that drops the legendary will be bugged and unattainable anyway. Funny because every boss in this game is easily one shot seeing as we do it every week... Guessing you guys cant kill soa? Seems to be the popular one to complain about lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krinaman Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Exactly, why do you need legendary items if you aren't raiding? answer is you don't. Hopefully, the other end game content geared towards non-raiders. Content that would require better gear. Not wanting to raid =/= not wanting to do anything to improve your character at end game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excid Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Hopefully, the other end game content geared towards non-raiders. Content that would require better gear. Not wanting to raid =/= not wanting to do anything to improve your character at end game. Requires 8 people and you can clear all hms in 3 hours. Best source of loot in the quickest amount of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krinaman Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Requires 8 people and you can clear all hms in 3 hours. Best source of loot in the quickest amount of time. Your answer for people who don't want to raid is to raid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoxiousAlby Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Your answer for people who don't want to raid is to raid? Raid or die & the holy trinity in rpgmmo's.....horrible system but no one has had the creativity to come up with anything else in 15 years. So yeah raid or die (me I prefer option C....quit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suntar Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I would like to point out that some big steps have been taken with this game over previous mmo's to be more inclusive. Smaller numbers required for Ops are easier to attain. 3 different difficulty settings for raids with the normal mode ops being considerably easier than raiding I have tried in any other game. Loot from HMFP is equal in quality(same items) to loot for normal 8 and 16 Ops. The improvement in item level from the best items from HMFP / Normal Ops to the items best items from harder mode ops is tiny. Best gear from dailies (attained through moding orange items with mods from dailies) = item rating 126. Takes no more than 1 week of doing all the dailes on illum and Belsavis for a full set. Best gear from Normal Ops or HM flashpoints, Columni = rating 136 Best gear from HM and nightmare Ops = rating 140. a tiny improvement. AS things stand there is a tiny advantage to raiding for gear. The playing field is as level as it can be and still have an incentive to raid. Gone are the days where people with raid gear will stand like gods next to people without. An awful lot of people issues with this are more based on perception than reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaskava Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Currently my guild doesn't raid. Eventually, we will, once people get caught up with their leveling. That said, we will never be in the top 1% of raiders. If there is a legendary item, I fully support that 1% pretty much being the only ones that will get it. And I fully support the fight that drops it being the all-out, rage-inducing, 12-hour-nerdfest that nightmares are made of. After all, it's legendary. I do think it would be interesting if they added a PvP legendary based off of a personal rating. How they would figure it, I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 maybe back when WoW came out and 0.001% of players ever saw the inside of Naxx, but raiding is very accessable these days and legendary items should obviously come from them, why not? why do you think you deserve the best item ingame from doing a few rounds of PVP or a flashpoint? or even a class quest? gimme a frellin' break. entitled kids are entitled. He thinks he deserves them because he pays a sub and the raiders dont deserve them because they actually play the game to get them Exactly, why do you need legendary items if you aren't raiding? answer is you don't. Same as above, they feel as they are intitled to everything in the game no matter what. We cant have someone walking around with a legendary if he doesnt have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I would like to point out that some big steps have been taken with this game over previous mmo's to be more inclusive. Smaller numbers required for Ops are easier to attain. 3 different difficulty settings for raids with the normal mode ops being considerably easier than raiding I have tried in any other game. Loot from HMFP is equal in quality(same items) to loot for normal 8 and 16 Ops. The improvement in item level from the best items from HMFP / Normal Ops to the items best items from harder mode ops is tiny. Best gear from dailies (attained through moding orange items with mods from dailies) = item rating 126. Takes no more than 1 week of doing all the dailes on illum and Belsavis for a full set. Best gear from Normal Ops or HM flashpoints, Columni = rating 136 Best gear from HM and nightmare Ops = rating 140. a tiny improvement. AS things stand there is a tiny advantage to raiding for gear. The playing field is as level as it can be and still have an incentive to raid. Gone are the days where people with raid gear will stand like gods next to people without. An awful lot of people issues with this are more based on perception than reality. The biggest step taken was making anything someone does meaningless therefor having no point in doing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Your answer for people who don't want to raid is to raid? Your answer to people who dont want to try is give them legendary items? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaskava Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Your answer to people who dont want to try is give them legendary items? Makes sense to me.... Oh... Wait... No it doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZomgAChicken Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I'm glad I got my legendary weapon from a quest then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Average Player: Should be purchasable from a vendor for very little effort. ^ BW's target audience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Legendary items should NOT come from raids. Only a very small percentage of players raid and if you make legendary items available only from raids, an even tinier percentage will have it. Dont make it so that only a fraction of a fraction of players will even have it. Make it so that anyone can go through a long, expensive process to obtain it. But dont restrict it to a subset of raiding people. While I hate Raiding and think it should be removed from the genre as it server no positive function. You think LEGENDARY should be common? On a server of 10000 there should be like 5-10 people with the same legendary item. Making it that rare is how it truely becomes LEGENDARY! A legendary drop should require someone to A) Max out (sadly this isnt even a challenge in TOR) B) start a very long (100s of hours) quest line that will require the player doing ultra challenging solo and single group content to completion c) when A and B are fully completed, player then has a 5% chance of getting a Legendary reward Legendary should be the type of item where the WOWster look at proceedure and instantly complain about grinding, challenge, difficulty, and man hours. So we kinda agree on your statement but I suspect I go much farther then you do in difficulty to obtain. One of the biggest issues plagueing post WOW games is nothing feels special, unique, worthy. Least not to me. Course I dont think I should be able to get everything and anything and dont begrudge those that do get a drop or reward. This idea that everyone should be able to get everything with least amount of resistance makes everything meaningless really. Max level? Who cares! Max crafter? Who isnt? Max social? OK this one actually kinda special as players so anti social but even the social levels to easy to max out in reality once you do group. Max affection with companion? LOL in beta I went from 0-max affection with Nalia in one exchange and some stored gifts. It made the whole thing so absolutely meaningless I honestly felt robbed or stolen from as I was expecting this long relationship as you built it and earned her trust and affection, instead was just single exchange that just kept going because of the high affection your rewarded at that stage of game. Loot no different, I so desperately want to love this game (and I do like it despite its many faults) but I just cant because I feel Im robbed of any feeling of accomplishment or acheivement. Its all just given away far to easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrellaris Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I do agree with the op. legendary gear should not come from raids bit from long long and hard quest lines that include your crew skill and a lot of credits involved. This way everyone can do it over time and not just the minority that raids. I want to progress my character even if I don't raid. Raiding is never the only form of endgame and neither is pvp. Solo can also be a form or nightmare flashpoints, crafting quest lines etc. Sorry to step on all those fragile egos regarding raiding but suck it up. Games are no longer for the minority that calls tjemself hardcore raiders. Btw raids in this game are fairly easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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