Legendary items should NOT come from raids

[Mrs_Murder]

100% disagree with OP.

What BW should do right now is make random items, better than Rakata, drop in Nightmare mode. And let's say you could choose your set bonus with these items. Make Legendary items rare as sith and drop in Nightmare mode.

This will give us something to strive for

[MithurElb]

Raid or die & the holy trinity in rpgmmo's.....horrible system but no one has had the creativity to come up with anything else in 15 years. So yeah raid or die (me I prefer option C....quit)

 

Some have come with a lot of different alternatives; but being WoW in the middle of the scene, was impossible for some innovative option to prosper.

 

Now let's see... WoW is going down. Now there is a chance.

[areto]

Good grief, you aren't suggesting making legendary gear come From alternative, but equally challenging forms of playing are you? That's just going to upset all those grown men who think they're a special little snowflake cos they raid for a living, and because they're uber elite players they should be the only ones that get to wear that special digital cyber thong they've devoted the last month to getting.

Can't you understand that raiding is the only way such items should be obtained, and to make different forms of endgame modes is blasphemous to them. Heaven forbid they have to learn something new.

 

what else is as challenging as raiding? (discounting pvp, as that has it's own gear system).

[Paxmendacium]

Why do you need a legendary item if you aren't going to raid? A legendary pvp item maybe...but you obviously shouldn't receive those from raids...

[Aaluria]

Oh lordy, here's this argument again.

 

Ten Years of Bullsith, condensed:

 

Team Raid: You don't need top gear if you're not raiding, be happy with non-raid stuff for non-raid content.

 

Team Everyone Else: But we're all paying the same fee and want equal opportunity to have the best stuff.

 

Team Raid: So go raid, everyone has equal opportunity to raid.

 

 

Team Everyone Else: No, we don't all have equal opportunity to raid because we don't all have equal access to people to raid with.

 

 

Team Raid: So get a guild, make friends, stop being bad, etcetera, then raid.

 

 

Team Everyone Else: But we've got guilds and friends and we're not bad, or wouldn't stay bad any longer than you did before you knew a raid; the problem is time.

 

Team Raid: Maybe this game just isn't for you.

 

 

Team Everyone Else: Bullsith, it's that we don't have time to raid, which is about raiding, not playing the other 95% of the game.

 

Team Raid: So be happy with non-raid content and non-raid gear.

 

Team Everyone Else: NO!

 

Team Raid: GDIAF! Stop being lazy! I can do it, I've been doing it since December of 1408, I raided for 800,000 years and practically invented not standing in the bad with 500 other people, it's all E-Z Mode anymore and you're just too lazy to do it!

 

Team Everyone Else: Don't care! We've had the same problems since 1408 when we couldn't raid for 800,000 years because our Husband-Wife-Job-Kids-Disabilities-Different Opinions-Time constraints didn't Allow/Enable/Encourage/Help us do so!

 

 

Team Raid: You're all bads. GDIAF.

 

Team Everyone Else: Raid finder pl0x!

 

Team Raid: NO! Mass hysteria!

 

Team Everyone Else: Raid finder pl0x!

 

Team Raid: OM EFF'n G NO, NO AND NO SOME MORE! Don't ever have one or the earth will explode in a giant fireball and everyone will DIE!

 

Team Everyone Else: Raid finder pl0x!

 

 

Eventual Bioware Announcement: We're pleased to announce, for patch A.B.CD, our new Operation Roster! Now you'll be able to match-make and team up for the most challenging content with just a few simple clicks on our shiny new Roster GUI, now with 'O'god please make the people outside the building with pitchforks go home, we haven't seen our families in weeks.' technology!

 

 

Team Raid: NOOOOOOOOOOOARGHAKJASL:KJSGKJJSKNEHNJKL:SD:KLGJ!!11!!11!!1!!one!!!1!1eleven!!1KL:!jklj!!!! We're unsubscribing NAO!

 

 

Team Everyone Else: Hey, remember that thing you told us about dying in a fire? GDIAF. Ten years ago is that way. ----------> Oh, and we win.

 

 

Team Raid: A*()UJI#TKL:SDKSL:DFKJ *)#UJ)JI WKLSDJF WE HATE YOU ALL! You destroyed the game/our lives/our will to live/the internet!

 

 

Team Everyone Else: *The user you are trying to verbally abuse cannot be reached for comment at this time. Please leave a message on the Operation Roster sign-up page if you'd like to contact this user!*

 

 

Team Raid: AKJKLJ*(UJSDLKFJWKJPIOSJDF!!!!!!!

 

 

The end.

 

I laughed so hard and there is truth in this analogy. Thanks for the laugh!

[XaviourEQ]

it wont matter, i am sure the boss fight that drops the legendary will be faceroll anyway.So that even casuals can have legendary items.

 

^there i fixed that for you

Edited February 19, 2012 by XaviourEQ

[subrosian]

All MMOs, whether you like it or not, are built on the idea that you chase a carrot on a very long stick. WoW got the fancy idea that "everyone pays $15 a month and should therefore have purples", and promptly lost 50% of its US and EU subscribers. You aren't actually supposed to let anyone have the carrot except for those crazy people who starve to death at their computers... if you do, the game falls apart.

 

Once you actually have the carrot, there's no reason to log in - see the dozens upon dozens of threads from the 40-hour a week crowd who are unsubbing because they "have all Rakata / Battlemaster - no point in playing".

 

So no, if they introduce a Legendary it will likely need to be something that REQUIRES raiding, and not just raiding, weekly raiding in Hard Modes or higher and a whole bunch of other activity on top of it. Why? Because the average person isn't supposed to have it, the average person is supposed to be chasing after it and find it's out of their reach.

 

[Coiffio]

legendary gear should not come from raids bit from long long and hard quest lines that include your crew skill and a lot of credits involved. This way everyone can do it over time

 

Do people just not see the problem with this here? How is it legendary if everyone can do it over time?

[Megaphys]

what else is as challenging as raiding? (discounting pvp, as that has it's own gear system).

 

honestly there is nothing about grouping up that is innately more challenging than anything you do solo. It may require more communication, but it is essentially the same thing, and often even easier than doing something solo.

 

For example, for a DD, solo, they basically have to kill every encounter before it does enough dmg to kill them, or their companion to run out of heals, however in a group, the healer has better heals, and more skills with which to do it. Its actually easier when he is in a group, his job is pure, and he has people who can save his ***. a healer and a tank have similar issues.

 

The only thing that makes flash points more difficult? they design them to be more difficult. Think about it really, in all honesty think of the most difficult content you have faced in a game. Was it in an MMO? for me i would say no. I mean i may have had the longest fights in an MMO, or some pretty frentic fights where we may have had to adapt and communicate in unforseen circumstances, but in general, my job is just as easy, if not easier in multiplayer online games most times.

 

the hardest part about group content is getting a group to do it with, and the fact that people will be of differing temperments and skill, with different levels of knowledge and gear.

[Megaphys]

Do people just not see the problem with this here? How is it legendary if everyone can do it over time?

 

truth is relative gearing isnt that important, the importance is that there is something to aim for, preferably a cool something. legendary to you means only a few can ever get it. It doesnt mean that to everyone.

 

For your understanding, the best way to execute legendary would to basically only have a specific amount of them on the server at anyone time, and people with certain standings have these items. (and can lose them when their standing is no longer the in the range)

 

while this is an interesting concept, it should not be the carrot for the majority of players, because the majority knows they will never be the top 10 in the server, in anything.

 

 

So the concept of a legendary, that is either difficult, or time consuming comes into play and is a better carrot for more people. the key to the carrot is it has to be close enough that you think you can reach it.

[ImperialSun]

maybe back when WoW came out and 0.001% of players ever saw the inside of Naxx, but raiding is very accessable these days and legendary items should obviously come from them, why not? why do you think you deserve the best item ingame from doing a few rounds of PVP or a flashpoint? or even a class quest? gimme a frellin' break. entitled kids are entitled.

 

 

 

Exactly, why do you need legendary items if you aren't raiding? answer is you don't.

 

Let me spin that round, why do you think that you deserve the best item in game for running a couple of raids? Why are you so much more important than those who prefer to PvP or run FPs or Class Quests?

 

Entitled kids are entitled I suppose

 

Driz

[ImperialSun]

Do people just not see the problem with this here? How is it legendary if everyone can do it over time?

 

Were they not called legendary or something in WoW?

 

Are these all powerful purps not called Artifact class in SWTOR?

 

I could be wrong here but if not, then that negates your concern?

 

Driz

[Asherah]

I think the assumption that everyone that doesnt raid would want to raid if they had the time/guild/skill/patience required is fundamentally flawed. Some people like raiding, others dont. They might still do it for the phat loot, but they wont really be having fun. Trying to coerce everyone into raiding with superior rewards is an old MMO tradition that needs to be done away with.

 

Also, the old argument "People don't need good loot if they don't raid!" is a good example of why some people should be going to school instead of playing MMOs. After all, the only reason for having loot at all in MMOs is that people enjoy getting it. Progression could be handled in any number of much simpler but less entertaining ways.

 

Maybe even just make "legendaries" random. For example every day there's a small chance (lets say 0.1%) that your character enters a state where they get the legendary from the next chest they open, the next mob they kill, the next quest they complete, the next mission you send a companion on or whatever. This would make them impossible to farm and as rare as Bioware want them to be.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Asherah

[ZORG]

oh lordy, here's this argument again.

 

Ten years of bullsith, condensed:

 

Team raid: You don't need top gear if you're not raiding, be happy with non-raid stuff for non-raid content.

 

Team everyone else: But we're all paying the same fee and want equal opportunity to have the best stuff.

 

Team raid: So go raid, everyone has equal opportunity to raid.

 

 

Team everyone else: No, we don't all have equal opportunity to raid because we don't all have equal access to people to raid with.

 

 

Team raid: So get a guild, make friends, stop being bad, etcetera, then raid.

 

 

Team everyone else: But we've got guilds and friends and we're not bad, or wouldn't stay bad any longer than you did before you knew a raid; the problem is time.

 

Team raid: Maybe this game just isn't for you.

 

 

Team everyone else: Bullsith, it's that we don't have time to raid, which is about raiding, not playing the other 95% of the game.

 

Team raid: So be happy with non-raid content and non-raid gear.

 

Team everyone else: No!

 

Team raid: Gdiaf! Stop being lazy! I can do it, i've been doing it since december of 1408, i raided for 800,000 years and practically invented not standing in the bad with 500 other people, it's all e-z mode anymore and you're just too lazy to do it!

 

Team everyone else: Don't care! We've had the same problems since 1408 when we couldn't raid for 800,000 years because our husband-wife-job-kids-disabilities-different opinions-time constraints didn't allow/enable/encourage/help us do so!

 

 

Team raid: You're all bads. Gdiaf.

 

Team everyone else: Raid finder pl0x!

 

Team raid: No! Mass hysteria!

 

Team everyone else: Raid finder pl0x!

 

Team raid: Om eff'n g no, no and no some more! Don't ever have one or the earth will explode in a giant fireball and everyone will die!

 

Team everyone else: Raid finder pl0x!

 

 

Eventual bioware announcement: We're pleased to announce, for patch a.b.cd, our new operation roster! Now you'll be able to match-make and team up for the most challenging content with just a few simple clicks on our shiny new roster gui, now with 'o'god please make the people outside the building with pitchforks go home, we haven't seen our families in weeks.' technology!

 

 

Team raid: Noooooooooooarghakjasl:kjsgkjjsknehnjkl:sd:klgj!!11!!11!!1!!one!!!1!1eleven!!1kl:!jklj!!!! We're unsubscribing nao!

 

 

Team everyone else: Hey, remember that thing you told us about dying in a fire? Gdiaf. Ten years ago is that way. ----------> oh, and we win.

 

 

Team raid: A*()uji#tkl:sdksl:dfkj *)#uj)ji wklsdjf we hate you all! You destroyed the game/our lives/our will to live/the internet!

 

 

Team everyone else: *the user you are trying to verbally abuse cannot be reached for comment at this time. Please leave a message on the operation roster sign-up page if you'd like to contact this user!*

 

 

team raid: Akjklj*(ujsdlkfjwkjpiosjdf!!!!!!!

 

 

The end.

 

omg

 

rofl

[Syrellaris]

Do people just not see the problem with this here? How is it legendary if everyone can do it over time?

 

Really? People say you dont need Legendaries to do Solo content or Flashpoints(hardmode included). Truth is, you don't need Legendaries for Raid content either(hardmode and nightmare mode included).

 

Legendary gear is nothing but a Rare item, in name only. It counts for gear progression. Players don't need to have a use for it. They want to progress there character, with and without raids. That is something they are allowed to do as they pay as much as you do.

 

The argument used "its for raiding" is as false as can be. Just because some don't raid does not mean they are less entitled to a certain item then those that do raid.

 

Therefor it is perfectly logical for legendary items to be received outside of Raid environments. Nothing is stopping Bioware from creating severely challenging content that is geared to Flashpoints or Solo content.

 

Nothing is stopping that from creating a very hard and difficult quest line that have to do with collecting materials and recipe's for crafters to make legendary items(bound on Pickup) .

 

Just because it is not available in a raid does not mean it does not have to be difficult or simply handed out. Which is exactly what you whining raiders think. "oh its not in a raid, must be handout gear then".

 

 

 

• Legendary
  
• Definition: Of or pertaining to a legend or to legends; consisting of legends; like a legend; fabulous.
   
  
• Legendary
  - Definition: A book of legends; a tale or narrative.
   
  
• Legendary
  - Definition: One who relates legends.
   
  
• legendary
  - Definition: so celebrated as to having taken on the nature of a legend; "the legendary exploits of the arctic trailblazers"
   
  
• legendary
  - Definition: celebrated in fable or legend; "the fabled Paul Bunyan and his blue ox"; "legendary exploits of Jesse James"
  

 

So where exactly does legendary state "super rare! Raid only item"

[Ansultares]

Make it so that anyone can go through a long, expensive process to obtain it.

But dont restrict it to a subset of raiding people.

That doesn't sound like a very legendary item, but clearly they should just mail it to you as soon as you log in for the first time after you've hit level cap, because that's clearly the level of effort casuals expect to put into the game.

 

Legendary gear is nothing but a Rare item, in name only. It counts for gear progression. Players don't need to have a use for it. They want to progress there character, with and without raids. That is something they are allowed to do as they pay as much as you do.

There used to be a thing for that...

 

I think it was called GOOD *********** QUEST CHAINS.

 

You want Verrigan's Fist; that's cool, because it was a lengthy quest that had me hauling *** across the Eastern Kingdoms to collect the materials for it, and capped off in a moderately challenging fight.

 

But that's not a "legendary" item, because there's nothing legendary about it, except for the personal experience involved in acquiring it.

 

But these developers were too busy with their cutscenes to put in any quest content that cool. They assumed that by having the NPCs read the questtext to you, all other issues with the content would be magically resolved.

 

I return to my argument that clearly they should just mail it to you. My guess is that it could even be a level 1 junk piece, but if it had exclusive colored text, casuals would go gaga over it.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Ansultares

[Fentz]

you know, PvP players never get legendaries, do they :/ kinda lame

 

 

also someone said that that only back in vanilla WoW 0.001% raided, while true, more people raid these days but the majority don't

[Leovinus]

Do people just not see the problem with this here? How is it legendary if everyone can do it over time?

 

You're still thinking about this in terms of this being a straightforward open world game where everyone does the same thing. It's not. While intellectually everyone knows that they're doing the same quests as everyone else, within the context of the game you ARE the hero/villan in all the solo stuff, and nobody else is doing what you're doing as well. That's the whole reason behind having all quest dialog occur in cut-scenes. Might be a bit more immersive if you couldn't examine others, but there would be such a massive outcry that that's never going to happen.

 

The other thing to keep in mind is that (like someone else mentioned) when people ask for the highest tier of gear to be available to their playstyle, what they're really asking for is that they have content designed for them that would appropriately reward that stuff. It's not about wanting better rewards for the same old easy solo content.

 

You might also consider that "legendary" might be a tag that's intended for specialty items, not gear that will be better than artifact (or whatever purple is) stat wise. There's nothing truly legendary about the wrist that lets you into the VIP area, nor the blaster a BH gets, wrt stats, but they're both a bit more unique in where they come from or what they're for.

[Kaoci]

That's not a legendary.

 

lol yes it is it isnt a epic and i had asked gms about it the purple of blue colour means legendary.

[SlickDevlan]

Really? People say you dont need Legendaries to do Solo content or Flashpoints(hardmode included). Truth is, you don't need Legendaries for Raid content either(hardmode and nightmare mode included).

 

Legendary gear is nothing but a Rare item, in name only. It counts for gear progression. Players don't need to have a use for it. They want to progress there character, with and without raids. That is something they are allowed to do as they pay as much as you do.

 

The argument used "its for raiding" is as false as can be. Just because some don't raid does not mean they are less entitled to a certain item then those that do raid.

 

Therefor it is perfectly logical for legendary items to be received outside of Raid environments. Nothing is stopping Bioware from creating severely challenging content that is geared to Flashpoints or Solo content.

 

Nothing is stopping that from creating a very hard and difficult quest line that have to do with collecting materials and recipe's for crafters to make legendary items(bound on Pickup) .

 

Just because it is not available in a raid does not mean it does not have to be difficult or simply handed out. Which is exactly what you whining raiders think. "oh its not in a raid, must be handout gear then".

 

 

 

• Legendary
  
• Definition: Of or pertaining to a legend or to legends; consisting of legends; like a legend; fabulous.
   
  
• Legendary
  - Definition: A book of legends; a tale or narrative.
   
  
• Legendary
  - Definition: One who relates legends.
   
  
• legendary
  - Definition: so celebrated as to having taken on the nature of a legend; "the legendary exploits of the arctic trailblazers"
   
  
• legendary
  - Definition: celebrated in fable or legend; "the fabled Paul Bunyan and his blue ox"; "legendary exploits of Jesse James"
  

 

So where exactly does legendary state "super rare! Raid only item"

 

And just like every other form of progression you can choose to participate or not.

 

P.S. Crafting will NEVER equal content in level of difficulty.

 

P.S.S. Using the dictionary to define a word that has no meaning in regular English is not smart.

[Syrellaris]

And just like every other form of progression you can choose to participate or not.

 

P.S. Crafting will NEVER equal content in level of difficulty.

 

P.S.S. Using the dictionary to define a word that has no meaning in regular English is not smart.

 

Exactly, you can choose but that does not mean an item should be only obtainable by one form.

 

P.s. True, but that does not mean you cannot invent very hard and challenging quests to get your crafting recipe for a Legendary weapon or armor set. And Then having to collect the Rare materials used to craft it.

 

p.s.s. Look up under Legend. Different word for legendary btw is Antique or Artifact. Both quite well existing words.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Syrellaris

[Ansultares]

What would casuals prefer developers called exclusive raid drops, if not legendary?

 

Hardcore-raider tier? I really doubt the hardcore raiders would care if it was even called "no-lifer tier," provided it was bis by a few stat points and had a cool/unique graphic.

 

I don't even like to raid and I still think there should be exclusive raid rewards.

[SlickDevlan]

Exactly, you can choose but that does not mean an item should be only obtainable by one form.

 

P.s. True, but that does not mean you cannot invent very hard and challenging quests to get your crafting recipe for a Legendary weapon or armor set. And Then having to collect the Rare materials used to craft it.

 

p.s.s. Look up under Legend. Different word for legendary btw is Antique or Artifact. Both quite well existing words.

 

Why not?

 

"Legendary" or "artifact" or whatever term you want to use to call gear has no corresponding definition in the dictionary. Unless you can point to the definition that starts with "Item in SWTOR that...".

[Valkirus]

You are wasting your time with this post. The raiders would have a fit if anyone who does not raid gets something they thought only they should get. Afterall, they would'nt feel so specail anymore. That said....in patch 1.2, BW said all orange gear would be good for end game content with modding. So cheer up, you may not have legendary gear from raiding, but you will have orange gear which will be fine for any raiding you may want to do later.

[Felioats]

Equal gear for equal time invested.

 

Raiders aren't better, they just play different content. They're afraid that if people could get raid-quality gear without raiding in the same amount of time, no one would raid anymore -- which is very telling about the fact that they, themselves don't even enjoy it and wouldn't do it if not for the lewtz.