Legendary items should NOT come from raids

[Felioats]

You are wasting your time with this post. The raiders would have a fit if anyone who does not raid gets something they thought only they should get. Afterall, they would'nt feel so specail anymore. That said....in patch 1.2, BW said all orange gear would be good for end game content with modding. So cheer up, you may not have legendary gear from raiding, but you will have orange gear which will be fine for any raiding you may want to do later.

 

Yeah, but you'll need to raid to get the mods to put into that orange gear, won't you?

 

I'd pay $100/month for a server with operations disabled.

[Nuvem]

Get available in pvp= PPl gonna exploit it

Put in boxes around the game = So ppl gonna create 330950394 chars like they did for much less in Ilum, ruinning the fun of everyone.

 

I think then, based upon how ppl can play fair, the only way must be raid.

[Sporin]

Oh lordy, here's this argument again.

 

Ten Years of Bullsith, condensed:

 

Team Raid: You don't need top gear if you're not raiding, be happy with non-raid stuff for non-raid content.

 

Team Everyone Else: But we're all paying the same fee and want equal opportunity to have the best stuff.

 

Team Raid: So go raid, everyone has equal opportunity to raid.

 

 

Team Everyone Else: No, we don't all have equal opportunity to raid because we don't all have equal access to people to raid with.

 

 

Team Raid: So get a guild, make friends, stop being bad, etcetera, then raid.

 

 

Team Everyone Else: But we've got guilds and friends and we're not bad, or wouldn't stay bad any longer than you did before you knew a raid; the problem is time.

 

Team Raid: Maybe this game just isn't for you.

 

 

Team Everyone Else: Bullsith, it's that we don't have time to raid, which is about raiding, not playing the other 95% of the game.

 

Team Raid: So be happy with non-raid content and non-raid gear.

 

Team Everyone Else: NO!

 

Team Raid: GDIAF! Stop being lazy! I can do it, I've been doing it since December of 1408, I raided for 800,000 years and practically invented not standing in the bad with 500 other people, it's all E-Z Mode anymore and you're just too lazy to do it!

 

Team Everyone Else: Don't care! We've had the same problems since 1408 when we couldn't raid for 800,000 years because our Husband-Wife-Job-Kids-Disabilities-Different Opinions-Time constraints didn't Allow/Enable/Encourage/Help us do so!

 

 

Team Raid: You're all bads. GDIAF.

 

Team Everyone Else: Raid finder pl0x!

 

Team Raid: NO! Mass hysteria!

 

Team Everyone Else: Raid finder pl0x!

 

Team Raid: OM EFF'n G NO, NO AND NO SOME MORE! Don't ever have one or the earth will explode in a giant fireball and everyone will DIE!

 

Team Everyone Else: Raid finder pl0x!

 

 

Eventual Bioware Announcement: We're pleased to announce, for patch A.B.CD, our new Operation Roster! Now you'll be able to match-make and team up for the most challenging content with just a few simple clicks on our shiny new Roster GUI, now with 'O'god please make the people outside the building with pitchforks go home, we haven't seen our families in weeks.' technology!

 

 

Team Raid: NOOOOOOOOOOOARGHAKJASL:KJSGKJJSKNEHNJKL:SD:KLGJ!!11!!11!!1!!one!!!1!1eleven!!1KL:!jklj!!!! We're unsubscribing NAO!

 

 

Team Everyone Else: Hey, remember that thing you told us about dying in a fire? GDIAF. Ten years ago is that way. ----------> Oh, and we win.

 

 

Team Raid: A*()UJI#TKL:SDKSL:DFKJ *)#UJ)JI WKLSDJF WE HATE YOU ALL! You destroyed the game/our lives/our will to live/the internet!

 

 

Team Everyone Else: *The user you are trying to verbally abuse cannot be reached for comment at this time. Please leave a message on the Operation Roster sign-up page if you'd like to contact this user!*

 

 

Team Raid: AKJKLJ*(UJSDLKFJWKJPIOSJDF!!!!!!!

 

 

The end.

 

You left out my favourite part.. The bit where Team Raid says "This is my job, raiding is hard work!" (Maybe a real life job would narrow that game time down abit for ya? eh?).

[Syrellaris]

Why not?

 

"Legendary" or "artifact" or whatever term you want to use to call gear has no corresponding definition in the dictionary. Unless you can point to the definition that starts with "Item in SWTOR that...".

 

ar·ti·fact also ar·te·fact (ärt-fkt)

n.

1. An object produced or shaped by human craft, especially a tool, weapon, or ornament of archaeological or historical interest.

2. Something viewed as a product of human conception or agency rather than an inherent element: "The very act of looking at a naked model was an artifact of male supremacy" (Philip Weiss).

3. A structure or feature not normally present but visible as a result of an external agent or action, such as one seen in a microscopic specimen after fixation, or in an image produced by radiology or electrocardiography.

4. An inaccurate observation, effect, or result, especially one resulting from the technology used in scientific investigation or from experimental error: The apparent pattern in the data was an artifact of the collection method.

 

 

it is in the Dictionary btw. It does not automatically refer to SWtor Gear alone. Artifact has many meanings. Just like Legendary.

[Valkirus]

Yeah, but you'll need to raid to get the mods to put into that orange gear, won't you?

 

I'd pay $100/month for a server with operations disabled.

 

You can buy them on the GM. And no..I would'nt pay 100 dollars a month to play on a Operation free server. lol! I am not disagreeing with your aguments on this subject as much as I am being realistic and know how the developers for MMO's think.

[areto]

People on the internet aught to have to take classes in rhetoric, they always end up completely ruining their own arguments, the "but it is says in the dictionary.." one is probably the worst offender.

[FerrusPA]

Huh, anyone here remembers the long-arse quest chains in EQ you did just to get one really good sword?

 

Granted they consisted mostly of running back and forth or grinding mobs for days on end (Then again, what didn't in EQ?) but you certainly had a feeling of accomplishment afterwards. Combine this approach with TORs story and voila, decent content for non-raiders.

[Droidist]

Items in this game should match the effort required to get them, whether that be a solo quest line, a raid, a pvp batttle ground.

 

All high powered items should not be location specific - period, ever...

[AsheraII]

I disagree, the purples obtained from crafting, HM FP, and daily commendation grinding are sufficient for any solo content. Without hard or nightmare mode solo content there is no reason to go beyond those basic tiers unless you just want to trivialize combat. 126 armor rating is good enough, any higher is unnecessary if you have no desire to raid.

And the simple solution to this circular reasoning is... Implementing more challenging solo content with even harder mobs and bosses.

 

Though I'd actually suggest splitting the gear progress at this point, and make solo content drop gear that has a lot of Presence, while having standard non-presence gear drop in operations. The presence stat is way underused at this moment. It's actually hard to aquire any of it!

 

So, say an operation drops gear that has like +20 Stat X and + 20 Stat Y over the daily 126 AR gear, then there's plenty of room for solocontent to give gear that has like +10 Stat X and +30 Presence over the 126 AR gear for example.

 

The mechanics to do so are already in place. They just need to be put to some good use now.

[Asherah]

Huh, anyone here remembers the long-arse quest chains in EQ you did just to get one really good sword?

 

Granted they consisted mostly of running back and forth or grinding mobs for days on end (Then again, what didn't in EQ?) but you certainly had a feeling of accomplishment afterwards. Combine this approach with TORs story and voila, decent content for non-raiders.

 

Yeah, the Epic quests in EQ were pretty nice since they gave most players the chance to get at least one item that was clearly superior to the best raid drop (well, for most classes). Although, as you mentioned, they were really grindy by todays standards. Well actually, for most of them it was not the amount of mobs you had to kill but the rarity of them that was the problem (some of them had spawn times that were several days long).

 

Anyway, I think the best way to handle "legendaries" in SWTOR would be to have them as rewards for class specific quest chains that require a certain (pretty high) legacy level to start. For example, you find out that your great great grandmother was an infamous sith lord and you get a quest chain to find her tomb and recover her lightsaber. Sounds pretty cool to me! And BW could keep adding more tiers of these quests that require increasingly high legacy level to start.

[Tic-]

Hey look, this thread again...

 

and again its about people saying you must get gear this way, as opposed to letting developers actually... develop, or maybe try something try "new", step out of the box just a lil, try a bit of creativity...

 

/gasp

 

No wonder MMOs are so damn boring, if a dev were to try anything different, like having extremely rare gear come from anything but raiding, some people would have a break-down.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Tic-

[wifeaggro]

Legendary items should NOT come from raids.

 

Only a very small percentage of players raid and if you make legendary items available only from raids, an even tinier percentage will have it.

 

Dont make it so that only a fraction of a fraction of players will even have it.

 

Make it so that anyone can go through a long, expensive process to obtain it.

But dont restrict it to a subset of raiding people.

 

Dude go play ME3 its a multiplayer game or so bioware claims. quit your whining why do you need a legendary anyway if you dont raid. Foodstamp line is down the street.

[Tic-]

Dude go play ME3 its a multiplayer game or so bioware claims. quit your whining why do you need a legendary anyway if you dont raid. Foodstamp line is down the street.

 

Pretty sure he said it shouldn't be easy to obtain...

 

well done.

[NoxiousAlby]

I've got to say after reading all the post's that the raid or die mentality group just stick with that belief because it's all you have. You've been saying it in other games for years and still dont believe how anything but that method is worthy of any rare reward.

 

Here's an example, the hardest thing i've had to do in this game was the final class quest boss for my Sith warrior. Far more difficult than any FP or Op, it took me approx 12 attempts to discover what was killing me, how to identify it, and how to get around it. It was an epic battle that i finally overcome, took me about 2 hrs all up to complete.

 

If you go to the class sections of the forums you will see that many players gave up, they just couldnt do it. In the end they brought in friends or guildies to help them defeat the boss which I refused to do. The reward was the Darth title (pretty cool) and 1 piece of orange gear (gloves if I remember rightly but dont quote me), I was so dissapointed. That was truly an epic fight and one that I actually had to strategize and research through trial & error to complete. Was definately deserving of a better reward.

Edited February 19, 2012 by NoxiousAlby

[-Arcane-]

Legendary items should NOT come from raids.

 

Only a very small percentage of players raid and if you make legendary items available only from raids, an even tinier percentage will have it.

 

Dont make it so that only a fraction of a fraction of players will even have it.

 

Make it so that anyone can go through a long, expensive process to obtain it.

But dont restrict it to a subset of raiding people.

 

Ahaha.

 

I lolled.

[SlickDevlan]

Equal gear for equal time invested.

 

Raiders aren't better, they just play different content. They're afraid that if people could get raid-quality gear without raiding in the same amount of time, no one would raid anymore -- which is very telling about the fact that they, themselves don't even enjoy it and wouldn't do it if not for the lewtz.

 

Thing is, there is no possible way to make raiding and whatever solo quests to equal each other. You can certainly make the argument that aside from time and people raiding isn't more difficult than anything you could do solo, but they could never be equal.

 

And no offense, but this a gear based game. The carrot that is dangled to get people to do certain things is gear. To call that stupid is to call the game stupid. To demand the same thing through different means you're hypocritical or you wouldn't care that you don't have the gear.

Edited February 19, 2012 by SlickDevlan

[notebene]

Not sure where this fits in with the conversation, but I'm largely a solo player. I'll do some small grouping, but I don't raid (not counting open-group style world content like in Rift, which is still such a great mechanic, I'm glad they lifted that from Warhammer, it deserved to be lifted).

 

While I think someone who doesn't raid should have 'some' sort of cool 'stuff' to strive for, I have 'never' been under the illusion that it should be as awesome as what raiders get...from a stat perspective (more on that in a minute).

 

I'm not a 'huge' fan of the whole gear progression concept, but if it exists and has been implemented in a game, then certainly there should be solo- small group- stuff to try to achieve, raid stuff, and PvP stuff. And none the stuff shall meet (something like that).

 

Now, back to 'stat perspective'. If you have an awesome chest piece of uber death and I have a not so cool chest of loser solo person (you can call me whatever you want if it makes you feel better, I don't care) and your stats are far better, that makes sense. You are trying to better yourself to progress through harder and harder content.

 

Now, from an 'aesthetic' point of view, I have seen games that for some reason will put certain armor skins in that are only available in raids. Skins that, shall we say, most personalities that are raiders wouldn't give a rats...tail about, and non-raiding, loitering, collecting, fluffy-seeking, solo folks like me would absolutely 'love' to get their hands on. At that point, you are just taunting us, and that's just mean.

 

So, this response may have no point in this thread. I guess I don't care, but it's my 2 cents on the whole raiding gear thing.

[Tic-]

Thing is, there is no possible way to make raiding and whatever solo quests to equal each other. You can certainly make the argument that aside from time and people raiding isn't more difficult than anything you could do solo, but they could never be equal.

 

And no offense, but this a gear based game. The carrot that is dangled to get people to do certain things is gear. To call that stupid is to call the game stupid. To demand the same thing through different means you're hypocritical or you wouldn't care that you don't have the gear.

 

I guess some folks have more faith in game developers than you.

 

To say that raiding is it, there is no other way to get the best gear, ever, is maybe why the genre' has gotten so, stale.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Tic-

[SliceAntilles]

"Carebear"

 

You keep using that word, I don't think it means what you think it means.

[Emeda]

I do agree with the op. legendary gear should not come from raids bit from long long and hard quest lines that include your crew skill and a lot of credits involved. This way everyone can do it over time and not just the minority that raids.

 

I want to progress my character even if I don't raid. Raiding is never the only form of endgame and neither is pvp. Solo can also be a form or nightmare flashpoints, crafting quest lines etc.

 

Sorry to step on all those fragile egos regarding raiding but suck it up. Games are no longer for the minority that calls tjemself hardcore raiders.

 

Btw raids in this game are fairly easy.

 

Legendary items should be legendary. That means you get them by doing something legendary. Something that only requires time and money to get it isnt legendary enough, since well you know in time everyone will have it making it no longer a legendary but a common item.

 

Also please dont say that they can add in a solo boss for you that is super super hard and that you then cannot play with your friends to do it but have to do it solo.

 

Legendaries should also be looked at as a reward for a team and not just as one individuals possession.

[utio]

what else is as challenging as raiding? (discounting pvp, as that has it's own gear system).

 

Just cos it isn't there ATM doesn't mean they can't implement something in future. Bit of diversity is a good thing.

[Syrellaris]

Legendary items should be legendary. That means you get them by doing something legendary. Something that only requires time and money to get it isnt legendary enough, since well you know in time everyone will have it making it no longer a legendary but a common item.

 

Also please dont say that they can add in a solo boss for you that is super super hard and that you then cannot play with your friends to do it but have to do it solo.

 

Legendaries should also be looked at as a reward for a team and not just as one individuals possession.

 

How is Raiding with 7 or 15 other people any more legendary then doing something solo, during a quest line or any other way they could think of? Exactly it aint.

 

There is absolutely no reason for legendary, artifact or whatever you want this specific type of gear called, to be available only in Raids.

 

For example, You can make it a Sith or Republic Historical weapon. It has survived the ages and is a great weapon to look at it and equal in stats. In a raid environment this could be a "Kill X boss" and he has a 1% chance to drop it type of loot.

 

IN a epic story quest line this could be a historial expedition ina solo flashpoint that is difficult to complete and you unearth the Plans to craft this weapon from its broken pieces after the boss fight. Allowing you (the armstech) to craft it using say 5 Biometric alloys and a few other Rare Epic materials that are gained from Hardmode flashpoints or something.

 

The possibilities are endless and in no way Raid only. The genre has gotton stale because everyone thinks Raiders are automatically the ones that should get it. and I do not believe in that.

[EcrirTwyLar]

Legendary items should NOT come from raids.

 

Only a very small percentage of players raid and if you make legendary items available only from raids, an even tinier percentage will have it.

 

Dont make it so that only a fraction of a fraction of players will even have it.

 

Make it so that anyone can go through a long, expensive process to obtain it.

But dont restrict it to a subset of raiding people.

 

I don't even raid (do operations) anymore and I disagree with this. If you make it so that anyone can go through an expensive long process to get them, EVERYONE will have them. Don't underestimate the willingness of the MMO community to GRIND for the best gear.

 

If Legendary gear is solo-able, the difficulty would have to be so high, that most people would get frustrated. Then they would cry on the forums, then Bioware would cave and nerf it. No, let's not go there.

Edited February 19, 2012 by EcrirTwyLar

[Tiaa]

it wont matter, i am sure the boss fight that drops the legendary will be bugged and unattainable anyway.

 

+ 300 Darkside Points.

[Lerthan]

Your a brave poster Reeny, now the carebear squad will be out to flame you for even suggesting such a thing.

 

Let me explain something to you, Swtor is no different to wow only easier. Both games have the holy trinity, level --> dungeons --> raid, only here it''s level --> fashpoint --> Op's

 

This is the raid or die mentality, like you I had hoped for something different & innovative but instead all we got was more of the same. I hear GW2 may be very different but apart from that i'm pinning my hopes on project Titan.

 

What you wanted was a single player game not a multi-player game.

 

Does the OP have a point in that there should be some Legendary items outside of raiding? Yes they do. However I suspect that like you and others that keep posting drivel like this that they just don't want to have to do what is required to get said item.

 

OMG I don't get to see or experience or get certain content because I don't want to group with other players. The Devs need to change that content to where I can do it solo as I pay my 15 bucks a month and should be able to do it the way I want to do it. Seriously? It is up to you what you experience or don't.

 

 

Now to the OP's point. While you have a point in that not everything that is uber cool should come from raiding, you also need to realize that some things need to only come from certain kinds of content..

 

Current legendary items are the best items in the game for raiding. As such they need to only come from raiding.

 

Now if you had come here and said, you know legendary items look really cool. Very few people will ever get them even from raiding and that's fine. However there is nothing that a solo player can get that looks really cool and takes tons of hours to get. How about adding in something that requires tons of hours to get, looks really cool and gives a nice strong boost to our companions while we are wearing it?

 

That I would support, why? simply put your not asking for multi player content and gear to be changed to fit your play style. You are instead asking for something that is comparable but only boosts solo player style at that point.

Edited February 20, 2012 by LexiCazam
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