Attacking republic in Open World is griefing?

[Gwal]

Tagging a boss with no intention of actually killing it solely for the purpose of denying other players is exploiting game mechanics.

 

"Harassment consists of misuse and/or abuse of game mechanics and verbal harassment with the intention of distressing and offending other players."

 

Tags on mobs in this game frequently don't drop right away, even after the person/group with the tag die.

 

What are they doing wrong?

 

This is a war. You don't win a war by letting your enemy do as they wish!

 

This is the type of "no one must be denied anything" WoW dev mentality that has ruined the MMO genre.

 

What those guys did is possibly the most significant battle in SWTOR history. And that kind of says it all for this game and why the PvP is mediocre.

 

Deviating from the gear treadmill needs encouragement not punishment.

[Boarg]

What are they doing wrong?

 

This is a war. You don't win a war by letting your enemy do as they wish!

 

This is the type of "no one must be denied anything" WoW dev mentality that has ruined the MMO genre.

 

What those guys did is possibly the most significant battle in SWTOR history. And that kind of says it all for this game and why the PvP is mediocre.

 

Deviating from the gear treadmill needs encouragement not punishment.

 

Mob tagging is not a game mechanic designed for harassing other players in PvP. It's designed to straighten out who gets credit for a kill. Tagging without intent to kill is an exploit; it's griefing. It's an abuse of game mechanics.

 

If you want to fight the opposing faction, fight them. Don't cheese mechanics that aren't supposed to have anything to do with combat and have zero basis in realistic tactics.

 

Most of all, don't cry on the forums for getting caught breaking the rules.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Boarg

[Radiohex]

I have never rolled on a PvE server because I like the challenge posed by this exact sort of thing.

 

But there is pretty obviously something wrong with 8 republics being unable continue their game because 2 imperials STILL think its funny after a few hours. Trying to break up a raid group may not technically be harassment, but it is low, and goes against the spirit of the game, and I am glad this particular BW employee acted ethically by stopping it (after reasonable period, people ARE supposed to PvP).

[Pawe]

I don't need screenshots to believe it happened. I'm guessing that the OP did get a warning.

 

But...

 

1) I doubt he is telling the whole truth. If his wanted to camp a spawn for 2 hours to prevent republics from taking it down, go for it. I have done this before. Find a zone with Empire NPCs, and help out any NPCs fighting Republic players. Is it annoying, sure. Should it be allowed, yes. Has it happened to me, of course. I have done this several times and not gotten any warning. We might be missing the part of the story where a heated exchange took place in General chat, or they camped the Republic rez zone, ect.

 

2) Tagging a boss so they can't get it is wrong, and I believe abusing game mechanics. Kill them, wait for them to engage the boss and help out by taking out their tank or healers, that's fine. I don't think tagging should be done though. I'll agree Bioware should fix this, and I know it will be done till they do.

 

All in all, I do think this game is way too carebear focused. I've played MMO's since EQ, SWG, and even Runescape. They all had real penalties for death in PvP, be it item loss, exp loss, zone kickouts, corpse run, ect. WoW broke that, and with MMOs becoming the crazy popular machines they are the vast majority of MMO "gamers" and just gamers in general became idiots that companies have to pander to.

[Icecrypt]

Of course its griefing if your camping these people and ruining for them. Your just being cowards and ruining some other peoples fun. Of course its griefing.

[UnderatedNoob]

"Open world" PvP is one thing.......but denying another group of players access to content is another....

 

I would suspect there is a balance they are working here....

 

Did your group proceed to slay the world boss?

 

....or were you just killing off the republic players so they could not?

 

IMO is doesn't matter. I agree with the OP.

 

There were two guys trying to down Tatooine's world boss. I was around lvl 23. It was a level 40 and another level 30 something. Obviously I couldn't kill them, but I sure did get the boss to kill them... by stunning the healer and distracting them from their plan.

 

It's a PVP server. If you want to kill a world boss in peace, go to a PVE server. Or else you take the chance of this.

 

OP - I'm republic, but I respect the fact you did not let your enemy down that world boss. It's a war right? In a war we don't let our enemies grow stronger by acquiring better weaponry / gear.

[drdarpa]

So here is the scenario.

 

Belsavis World Boss is up. Republic guild is trying to take him down. A group of Imperials attack the repubs.....repeatedly til they abandon the boss.

 

Imperials get warnings for griefing.

 

 

I could have sworn this game said it had open world PVP....and I also could have sworn I chose to play on a PVP server.

 

So I would like the devs to clarify this.

 

And a little bit of rant here.

Bioware, you have never been big on the whole PVP thing, so much so that you had to co-opt developers from Warhammer to do it for you. The above example only shows your lack of knowledge about PVP.

A couple of things to enlighten you.

First, open world pvp in the gaming community means.....pvp anywhere, anytime.

On a PVP server, a common practice is denying the opposing faction areas, entrances, bosses....you know...it's almost like....oh I dont know....a WAR...like STAR WARS!!!!

 

I can deal with bugs, I can deal with slow patches and fixes. (you have been good with patches)...I can deal with alot of things. But one thing I cant stand is a mommy game company babysitting a PVP server.

 

So I would like some clarification.

Is it ok on a PVP server to actually attack the opposing faction in an organized fashion to deny them areas, quest bosses, or anything else? Can my guild decide to wage war on Belsavis and attempt to deny to the whole world to the republic?

 

If I kill someone and they come back to the area, am I allowed to keep killing them til they give up? If not, what's the magic number before I am griefing?

 

 

 

One pissed off PVP'er.

 

 

This is sad. 2 of my alts are repub, and imps are more than welcome to come spawn camp me, gang-zerg me, gank, area control, area lock, kill my quest mobs, or make playing the game as difficult as possible for me at any point in time while I am logged in on a pvp server. If I don't like it and want it to stop, I should reroll pve, or be more strategic on how and when I play.

 

Whatever noob(s) reported you is(are) a moron(s) and needs quit playing on a pvp server. In my opinion, you went a little light on them. PvP servers create a different type of player because of the amount of awareness the player needs to have to be successful. If Bioware is punishing players for participating in PvP as this OP did, they should be ashamed, and we should be made aware so that we can decide if we can follow the rules or not. OP has every right to be pissed and outraged.

 

Yo Bioware, lets get your stance on this and indicate as clearly as possible what is and isn't allowed so that I can know whether or not I need to find another game to play.

Edited February 20, 2012 by drdarpa

[Pawe]

Of course its griefing if your camping these people and ruining for them. Your just being cowards and ruining some other peoples fun. Of course its griefing.

 

I'm not going to argue against being a coward, or camping and running, but it isn't greifing in a game warning sense.

 

You can be morally against doing that, but ganking lowbies, camping open world bosses, camping datacron locations should all be allowed in open world PvP. It sucks when it happens to you, but there are ways to avoid it if you are getting ganked. Go somewhere else, get on an alt, or...if you are getting ganked by a 50 in a lowbie zone, get on your 50 and start camping him. Odds are if they are ganking lowbies they aren't that good at PvP, and will run away as soon as they get some real fighting.

 

If you don't want the chance of getting ganked, don't roll on a PvP server. I'm not about to say that it is by any means a nice thing to do, but it should be allowed and this is a game. Killing any other player in any situation isn't "nice".

 

If they think that open world PvP is "ruining their fun" they shouldn't be on a PvP server. I have never once gotten ganked in an open world setting and gotten mad, if anything I get excited. "OH man, this just got real". I enjoy open world PvP both when being the attacker and attackee(Correct word?)

 

Moral of the story, yes, this game is for carebears.

[drdarpa]

Of course its griefing if your camping these people and ruining for them. Your just being cowards and ruining some other peoples fun. Of course its griefing.

 

Likewise, the guy that reported the OP should be reported and punished for ruining the OP's fun. The CSR that reprimanded the OP should be fired for ruining the OP's fun.

 

If you don't want to have a potentially negative result of an encounter with an enemy faction player, you roll pve. It has nothing to do with ruining someone's fun. It has everything to do with UNDERSTANDING WHAT YOU signed up for. Why is this so difficult for some players to understand? You roll pvp, enemy players will be making it difficult for you to achieve success in the game.

 

 

Encountering difficulty resulting from interaction with other players at any point in the game is the rule of PvP. If you do not have fun with that, or understand that, you should never roll on a pvp server.

Edited February 20, 2012 by drdarpa

[Gwal]

Mob tagging is not a game mechanic designed for harassing other players in PvP. It's designed to straighten out who gets credit for a kill. Tagging without intent to kill is an exploit; it's griefing. It's an abuse of game mechanics.

 

If you want to fight the opposing faction, fight them. Don't cheese mechanics that aren't supposed to have anything to do with combat and have zero basis in realistic tactics.

 

Most of all, don't cry on the forums for getting caught breaking the rules.

 

Just kill the enemy problem solved....

 

Just like pew pewing your enemy down.

 

This was the day for me to decide whether to subscribe or not. The actions against world pvp and members of community that are so opposed to meaningful pvp has decided the issue.

 

Have fun in WoW with lightsabers. If that's what people want they don't deserve better.

[Valcore]

...

 

But on a PVP server, PVP happens, ....

 

^ true story

[megaseven]

if you didn't like what the op did then what about this?

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=314903

 

not getting into the whole level difference argument

 

just the act of planet denial

[drdarpa]

if you didn't like what the op did then what about this?

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=314903

 

not getting into the whole level difference argument

 

just the act of planet denial

 

The guys that denied that planet should get.....

 

 

Legendary drops for pvping on a pvp server. This kind of stuff is fun, and should be encouraged.

Edited February 20, 2012 by drdarpa

[Tyrias]

Heh, no wonder the Dev's can't get Illum right. The vast majority of PvP-ers in this thread (because if we aren't PvP-ers, why would we be reading this), fall neatly into two categories:

 

1:- "I only want to PvP when it suits me, despite rolling on a PvP server", or

 

2:- "I chose a PvP server because I want to be able to be a complete dick to anyone I choose, at any time, without showing the slightest shred of anything resembling social competence or any understanding of how my actions affect other people".

 

For goodness sake, with the tiny, tiny number of people in this thread who actually advocate genuine "PvP for fun" as opposed to "Griefing for fun", it's no wonder that Illum is a kill-trading, faction imbalanced zerg-fest.

 

In this case, and most like it, the developers don't ruin PvP. The current mentality of PvP-ers does that all on it's own.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Tyrias

[tatarski]

If they were dark side republics then they were your friends and you should aid them to kill that boss,heal them,kill ads and such.

[FinDevil]

lol, it's pvp server bioware are clearly nubs at mmo's. Thank god i unsubbed, i woulda done it earlier if i knew about this.

[Boarg]

Just kill the enemy problem solved....

 

Like I already said in the first post you had quoted, no, it's not.

 

The mob does not automatically or instantly untag from killing the player/group that tagged it. Typically, the mob stays "white" to other players for quite a while.

 

 

And from what we've seen in the thread, the Republic players did exactly what you suggest....over, and over, and over. It didn't fix anything.

 

After hours of suicide harrassment, you could even make an argument that the rez system was abused in order to pursue a vendetta.

 

 

I'm not at all a carebear player, but it seems clear that the warned players crossed a line, probably in multiple ways, and likely isn't telling us the whole story.

[Turando]

Heh, no wonder the Dev's can't get Illum right. The vast majority of PvP-ers in this thread (because if we aren't PvP-ers, why would we be reading this), fall neatly into two categories:

 

1:- "I only want to PvP when it suits me, despite rolling on a PvP server", or

 

2:- "I chose a PvP server because I want to be able to be a complete dick to anyone I choose, at any time, without showing the slightest shred of anything resembling social competence or any understanding of how my actions affect other people".

 

For goodness sake, with the tiny, tiny number of people in this thread who actually advocate genuine "PvP for fun" as opposed to "Griefing for fun", it's no wonder that Illum is a kill-trading, faction imbalanced zerg-fest.

 

In this case, and most like it, the developers don't ruin PvP. The current mentality of PvP-ers does that all on it's own.

 

This ^^^

[crensh]

common sense mate. this warning should learn you.

[Mohawksinspace]

If you selected a server with the tag 'PvP' next to it, you deserve no sympathy when you get killed during questing, boss encounters, etc. That is why there are PvP and PvE servers. If you don't want to butt heads with the opposing faction, join a PvE server.

 

I am in fact pissed at how many places players are denied access to PvP in or require PvP flags. World PvP is supposed to be about fighting for control of content. It makes the faction rivalry actually matter as opposed to just the group of people you play warzones against.

[Mohawksinspace]

Heh, no wonder the Dev's can't get Illum right. The vast majority of PvP-ers in this thread (because if we aren't PvP-ers, why would we be reading this), fall neatly into two categories:

 

1:- "I only want to PvP when it suits me, despite rolling on a PvP server", or

 

2:- "I chose a PvP server because I want to be able to be a complete dick to anyone I choose, at any time, without showing the slightest shred of anything resembling social competence or any understanding of how my actions affect other people".

 

For goodness sake, with the tiny, tiny number of people in this thread who actually advocate genuine "PvP for fun" as opposed to "Griefing for fun", it's no wonder that Illum is a kill-trading, faction imbalanced zerg-fest.

 

In this case, and most like it, the developers don't ruin PvP. The current mentality of PvP-ers does that all on it's own.

 

There is no such thing as griefing on a PvP server. If you selected a PvP server, you accepted the fact you would be fighting for control of world quest and content zones.

 

If that faction rivalry is not for you, roll on a PvE server. That's why the two different types exist. Kthxbai.

[LanceUpercutt]

Heh, no wonder the Dev's can't get Illum right. The vast majority of PvP-ers in this thread (because if we aren't PvP-ers, why would we be reading this), fall neatly into two categories:

 

1:- "I only want to PvP when it suits me, despite rolling on a PvP server", or

 

2:- "I chose a PvP server because I want to be able to be a complete dick to anyone I choose, at any time, without showing the slightest shred of anything resembling social competence or any understanding of how my actions affect other people".

 

For goodness sake, with the tiny, tiny number of people in this thread who actually advocate genuine "PvP for fun" as opposed to "Griefing for fun", it's no wonder that Illum is a kill-trading, faction imbalanced zerg-fest.

 

In this case, and most like it, the developers don't ruin PvP. The current mentality of PvP-ers does that all on it's own.

 

i dont see anything wrong with either of those categories, anytime you beat another player in pvp its going to negatively affect them

Edited February 20, 2012 by LanceUpercutt

[Whetstone]

If this happened as the OP described then I cannot see how it could be considered griefing by any interpretation.

 

I wonder if there is some part of this story that was omitted.

 

Also were the imperials level appropriate for the area or there they a bunch of geared 50s chain ganking 35s? While I don't consider this greifing on a PvP server I do consider it in bad taste and counterproductive.

[evilmonkitar]

Read the description of PvP servers on the server select.. dont want to PvP or get killed while trying to PvE, roll on a PvE server.. plain and simple

[Dahoff]

There is PvP solution for it. People were fine with this in WoW and no one got banned for this issue.

 

Actually I played horde on Bonechewer and back when Kazzak was still being farmed, we got warned for purposely interrupting the Alliance guilds for attacking them and running in naked and dying to Kazzak to get them to leave. So yes World PVP was warned by Blizzard too...

Edited February 20, 2012 by Dahoff