When do Ops/Scoundrels realize they aren't ranged?

[Corran]

actually, only scrapper/concealment is full blown melee

 

and even then, you can pump out some decent dmg from range.

 

and at lvl 28, you are far from getting the 2 abilities that makes your melee really hurt

 

lethality/(repub version) only has to be in melee every 6ish secs at best

 

only has to be in melee every 6ish seconds at best...rofl

 

if you dont have upper hands you dont have wounding shots/cull to fire. if you arent firing cull/wounding shots you may as well be doing nothing but auto firing as dirty fighting/lethality

 

dont attempt to play devils advocate with such sad arguments.

[Armourboy]

1. Unsolicited advice is generally never received well.

 

2. At level 28 you are leveling and players often try odd specs to maximize things other than straight DPS. The name of the game while leveling is the ability to kill mobs while not dieing, everything else is secondary.

 

My friend and I often ran into crap like this in WoW where we would join groups in our " old Raid content specs" and before we could even swap people always started in. Was always fun to swap specs and then beat them by 5k+ DPS in the run

 

Personally at level 50 you can worry about players having an ideal playstyle much more, but while leveling I and most others aren't really gonna care what you want us to be doing ( especially if I'm on my 3rd or 4th alt)

[Harlequintwo]

I play Operative and I frequently stay behind cover using Rifle Shot and Snipe (with the odd Explosive Probe if I have energy). Then again, I am also specced as a Healer so I try to conserve energy in case something goes wrong and I need to burst heal. I simply don't have the energy to do the Debilitate, Eviscerate, Backstab, Shiv (and so on) combo that would also take my concentration away from health bars.

 

In soloing, I do whatever makes me happy. Sometimes I just like to slick roll into cover and sit there sniping and dropping a few heals on myself and my companion.

 

But for this particular instance, if he wasn't healing, don't criticise him unless you start wiping. OP seemed friendly enough giving the advice, but still, it doesn't sound like the group did badly. Snipe, Explosive Probe, Corrosive Dart, Headshot, Frag Grenade, etc. Operatives, and I'm sure Scoundrels, have quite a wide range of powerful abilities that don't include getting out the knife. We get the benefits of decent ranged DPS with healing, and the ability to flashbang/debilitate and run if mobs get too close

[Forduc]

only has to be in melee every 6ish seconds at best...rofl

 

if you dont have upper hands you dont have wounding shots/cull to fire. if you arent firing cull/wounding shots you may as well be doing nothing but auto firing as dirty fighting/lethality

 

dont attempt to play devils advocate with such sad arguments.

 

You do realise that Cull/ Wounding Shot require heavy duty cheating or hacking to get at level 28...

[Corran]

You do realise that Cull/ Wounding Shot require heavy duty cheating or hacking to get at level 28...

 

there are 3 talents at the bottom of the df tree. one buffs blaster whip 10%

 

if you are dirty fighting that early you are just a bad. no way around it.

[Caelrie]

its more like the wannabe "pro" players kill games because they kill the strong points of these games which is the customization of a players class. thats the big reason WoW is dumbing down their talent trees, because if you don't spec your class exactly like everyone else the 14 year old "pro" players will ***** and moan at you.

 

same thing with rift 4 archtypes with 8 classes that you can mix and match at will, however i bet at the endgame 90% of the "pro's" use the exact same spec. all this customization and YOU pieces of crap dumb the game down to 1 or 2 "viable" specs per class.

 

and it looks like SWTOR will go that route as well, too many 14 year old with god complexes telling others how they should play. shut up and worry about your damn self and not someone else.

 

You're free to play your class any way you like. I'm free to refuse to play with you. That means I'm free to kick you out of my group for only doing 30% of the DPS your class is capable of.

 

Freedom is freedom. You can't claim oppression and then state that I don't have the freedom to choose who I group with.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Caelrie

[PinnyFox]

The moment a scoundrel/operative can't go into cover and pewpew things to death in PvE is the moment some (read that to yourself. SOME. Not all, SOME. As in, not all scoundrels/operatives think they're ranged classes.) will either complain about how it's "impossible" to level, will either reroll, or take a look at their skills and figure out, "Oh hey, we're given lots of melee abilities, and we gain our class mechanic by using those melee abilities. Maybe it's like that for a reason!"

 

Until then, you're going to continue seeing people playing at ranged. After all, if you're breezing through the game just fine, and someone comes along and says something contradictory to your own personal experiences, who are you going to believe? Your own experiences, or some person who just comes up out of nowhere and says, "YOUR DOING IT WRONG!!!!!!!!!"?

[hadoken]

The moment a scoundrel/operative can't go into cover and pewpew things to death in PvE is the moment some (read that to yourself. SOME. Not all, SOME. As in, not all scoundrels/operatives think they're ranged classes.) will either complain about how it's "impossible" to level, will either reroll, or take a look at their skills and figure out, "Oh hey, we're given lots of melee abilities, and we gain our class mechanic by using those melee abilities. Maybe it's like that for a reason!"

 

Until then, you're going to continue seeing people playing at ranged. After all, if you're breezing through the game just fine, and someone comes along and says something contradictory to your own personal experiences, who are you going to believe? Your own experiences, or some person who just comes up out of nowhere and says, "YOUR DOING IT WRONG!!!!!!!!!"?

 

This is very true. You could likely (thanks to companions) level just fine using your resource free attack on any given character.

 

Well, maybe not some of the class quest bosses

[chuixupu]

If we were talking about high level here I would agree 100%, but at level 28? Smugglers/Agents don't have all the tools they need to be completely "roguelike". Because the few melee abilities they have end up on cooldown, you tend to want to throw in whatever you can. Because backstab.....shiv.....backstab....shiv....gets boring. Also, Lethality is pretty much a mid-range spec. More shooting, less stabbing.

 

As for telling people how to play, it really depends. Most of the time I don't, because usually I just get that same response. The people that really want to know how to play their class probably are either asking or researching. When you're lower level though, reading all about level 50 rotations can seem confusing.

[LordbishopX]

The moment a scoundrel/operative can't go into cover and pewpew things to death in PvE is the moment some (read that to yourself. SOME. Not all, SOME. As in, not all scoundrels/operatives think they're ranged classes.) will either complain about how it's "impossible" to level, will either reroll, or take a look at their skills and figure out, "Oh hey, we're given lots of melee abilities, and we gain our class mechanic by using those melee abilities. Maybe it's like that for a reason!"

 

Until then, you're going to continue seeing people playing at ranged. After all, if you're breezing through the game just fine, and someone comes along and says something contradictory to your own personal experiences, who are you going to believe? Your own experiences, or some person who just comes up out of nowhere and says, "YOUR DOING IT WRONG!!!!!!!!!"?

 

No wonder I read how bad the operative/scoundrel dps is and think most must be doing it wrong lol. Range on my ops is basically for staying out of fire and heavy AOE. Otherwise it's backstab shiv for Tac Advantage and lacerate. Its strange but the job moves from range pew pew to up close and personal pew pew heck in pve I pretty much 2 to 3 shot trash so fast my head spins.The slow speed of firing of our ranged attacks is meh in comparison.

Edited February 20, 2012 by LordbishopX

[BobaFurz]

Just did a heroic on Nar Shaddaa with a level 28 Scoundrel who was using cover ~20m, snipe shot, etc.

Told him he's a melee class like a rogue and he sort of scoffed at me... "dont tell me how to play" kind of stuff...

 

Very frustrated.

 

Actually with lvl 28 the class isnt still a true rogue, it starts with lvl 36. Before you use a lot of your hybrid skills. The class very reliant on crit, otherwise he hits like a wet towel. Maybe he was lethality, with that tree you dont get even get your 3rd melee attack (only concealment at lvl 20) and in this case pure melee would be not a good idea since his range abilities are doing more dmg overall.

Edited February 21, 2012 by BobaFurz

[Tanglethorn]

Wow, so by what a lot of you are saying is that if I choose to only use my limited range ability as a Jedi Knight, lets say spam Saber Throw and jsut hang back while the rest of the group plays their class effectively, then I shouldnt get kicked from the party and people shouldnt let me know I am not pulling my weight?

 

This has got to be the lamest thread I've ever seen.

 

Its your 15 bucks a month. but dont waste my time grouping with me if you "want" to be the most ineffective player in a group.

 

Its as easy as that.

[Aidbringer]

You know, it might be more interesting and challenging for experienced players to sometimes adapt to players who are not playing optimal, rather than the other way round.

 

Just sayin'

 

(In fact, I recall vividly that part of the fun I had PUG-ing in CoX as a team leader, once I was a vet, was damn well MAKING whatever cranky bunch of unoptimized weirdos I'd lucked out with manage to get through the instance with flying colours. That, in itself, is a huge challenge, and immensely satisfying when you pull it off. It requires everything from friendliness, politeness and diplomacy on the one hand, to brutal threats sometimes on the other hand, but boy it's fun when it all clicks.)

 

This is not a job folks, it's a social game and there are all sorts of ways of playing it.

 

 

Actually have to admit for PUGs I find this enjoyable.

 

Sure for hardmode guild only things need to be smooth running and well oiled. But adapting to the situation can be fun also.

 

IF things are working out, (or I can figure out how to make them work out), I don't care if it is 'best' or not.

[bliapis]

how dare u!

 

http://themescompany.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Crying-Baby-Natural-High-for-Some-Moms.jpg

Edited February 21, 2012 by bliapis

[Slaunyeh]

Wow, so by what a lot of you are saying is that if I choose to only use my limited range ability as a Jedi Knight, lets say spam Saber Throw and jsut hang back while the rest of the group plays their class effectively, then I shouldnt get kicked from the party and people shouldnt let me know I am not pulling my weight?

 

No, that's not what anyone is saying. What people are saying is, that yelling at at a level 28 scoundrel for using ranged attacks is stupid. There's a difference between deliberately trying to hurt your group, and playing your character in a way that some other guy who isn't playing your character doesn't realize can work.

 

Using cover can be a perfectly valid tactic for an Operative. In fact, it's one of the cool things about the low-level lethality Operative: Your most effective approach to any given fight depends a lot on the situation. Sometimes it's best to be sneak-sneak-STAB, sometimes staying in cover is better.

 

The usefulness of cover will decrease the higher level you get, I think my Operative was in his early 30s before I never really found a need for occasionally staying at range.

[Jaidan]

Good for him. I'm glad he told you off for telling him how to play.

 

They can be played as ranged. Maybe he was a Dirty Fighting Scoundrel. Did you ask or did you just assume that was a Scrapper since he wasn't healing?

 

Scoundrels/Operatives still have all the fundamental Smuggler/Agent skills that help them to be ranged.

 

Is it optimal? Of course not, but not everyone gives a flying Force what's optimal.

 

i like to think the law of the jungle will weed them out.

 

at least until they get "smarter" and come flying, en masse, complaining about how unfair it is that they can't compete... then we get a **** storm of epic proportions when things get changed to "make the playing field more even and fair."

[hadoken]

i like to think the law of the jungle will weed them out.

 

at least until they get "smarter" and come flying, en masse, complaining about how unfair it is that they can't compete... then we get a **** storm of epic proportions when things get changed to "make the playing field more even and fair."

 

Yea what's more likely to happen is the jungle gets dumbed down to their level, like in WOW.

[BobaFurz]

Wow, so by what a lot of you are saying is that if I choose to only use my limited range ability as a Jedi Knight, lets say spam Saber Throw and jsut hang back while the rest of the group plays their class effectively, then I shouldnt get kicked from the party and people shouldnt let me know I am not pulling my weight?

 

This has got to be the lamest thread I've ever seen.

 

Its your 15 bucks a month. but dont waste my time grouping with me if you "want" to be the most ineffective player in a group.

 

Its as easy as that.

 

Your saber throw cant compare to the dmg an operative can dish out from range and expecially in comparison to his melee attacks at this low lvl when for example the player is lethality.

[BobaFurz]

Wow, so by what a lot of you are saying is that if I choose to only use my limited range ability as a Jedi Knight, lets say spam Saber Throw and jsut hang back while the rest of the group plays their class effectively, then I shouldnt get kicked from the party and people shouldnt let me know I am not pulling my weight?

 

This has got to be the lamest thread I've ever seen.

 

Its your 15 bucks a month. but dont waste my time grouping with me if you "want" to be the most ineffective player in a group.

 

Its as easy as that.

 

Your saber throw cant compete with the dmg an operative can dish out from range and expecially in comparison to his melee attacks at this low lvl when for example the player is lethality. Maybe try the class and you will see.

[Malleable]

Well if he is DFing spec then he isnt a melee spec like Scrapper.

Granted he cant get Wounding Shot until 30th, and then its without Exploratory Surgery - so no Upper Hand from range.

 

But if that is where he is putting his points I guess I can see him trying to play from range. I realized that Scrapper was better until 32, so didnt bother going that route yet.

 

Mal

[PinnyFox]

Wow, so by what a lot of you are saying is that if I choose to only use my limited range ability as a Jedi Knight, lets say spam Saber Throw and jsut hang back while the rest of the group plays their class effectively, then I shouldnt get kicked from the party and people shouldnt let me know I am not pulling my weight?

 

This has got to be the lamest thread I've ever seen.

 

Its your 15 bucks a month. but dont waste my time grouping with me if you "want" to be the most ineffective player in a group.

 

Its as easy as that.

 

considering how jedi knights start with melee, are encouraged to melee, and each advanced class continues to melee? It's a whole different ballgame if you decide to stay at range and spam saber throw than it is for a smuggler who begins at range, gets some melee abilities but for the most part encourages a ranged playstyle, then has a radical shift in playstyle with one of their ACs.

 

Someone didn't do their homework

[LordbishopX]

considering how jedi knights start with melee, are encouraged to melee, and each advanced class continues to melee? It's a whole different ballgame if you decide to stay at range and spam saber throw than it is for a smuggler who begins at range, gets some melee abilities but for the most part encourages a ranged playstyle, then has a radical shift in playstyle with one of their ACs.

 

Someone didn't do their homework

 

Sith inquisitor sorc starts with melee and can melee all the way up to advance class and stays a melee is pretty much the same heck those neat abilities you get after 10 are just window dressings. Thrash ftw....

[Robeezyheezy]

If you want to gimp yourself...fine. But don't waste a groups time doing it. Crazy to see so many defend ranged operative (really if you like the idea of it so much go sniper for Christ sake), and how many people think lethality is a ranged spec...holy crap.

[BobaFurz]

If you want to gimp yourself...fine. But don't waste a groups time doing it. Crazy to see so many defend ranged operative (really if you like the idea of it so much go sniper for Christ sake), and how many people think lethality is a ranged spec...holy crap.

 

 

 

 

 

Your only melee abilities are Shiv with a 6 second cooldown and backstab with a 9 second cooldown, without having cull at this lvl. Best would be a combination of melee and range.

Edited February 21, 2012 by BobaFurz

[LordbishopX]

Your only melee abilities are Shiv with a 6 second cooldown and backstab with a 9 second cooldown, without having cull at this lvl. Best would be a combination of melee and range.

 

You backstab and shiv and and use the other skills at melee range doing anything else is just silly. Shiv generates TAC that's ur bread and butter for everything good and backstab hits like a truck it's a silly argument the only reason to stay at range is if AOE is out of hand period and for the most part should move in and out still for max dps.

 

Has to be the worse post on excusing not L2P your class so many spend 0 time learning what they can do and cry the insert class is broken. The last post I read on sent are under powered and needed a buff had me lmao just to funny need a buff to what God mode? Played correctly the class is pure carnage.

Edited February 21, 2012 by LordbishopX