Heres the TRUTH about operatives(video)

[Ich_Bin]

This video shows that Operatives can do okay damage (not great but okay) when coming from out of stealth. Now when they don't drop their target fast to get the chance to restealth (which is very hard as you can see) they are dead in the water. They do no significant damage, have no gap closer, no options to escape.

They are lucky if they survive an attack but they cannot have any significant impact on the outcome of the match.

 

Also the player in this video appears to be a better player than most of his opponents.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Ich_Bin

[Labradoraki]

This video shows that Operatives can do okay damage (not great but okay) when coming from out of stealth. Now when they don't drop their target fast to get the chance to restealth (which is very hard as you can see) they are dead in the water. They do no significant damage, have no gap closer, no options to escape.

They are lucky if they survive an attack but they cannot have any significant impact on the outcome of the match.

 

Also the player in this video appears to be a better player than most of his opponents.

 

yep.... but ppl in this forum are under their won delusions that operatives are doing 12323 damage with hiddens tirke...

[Ich_Bin]

yep.... but ppl in this forum are under their won delusions that operatives are doing 12323 damage with hiddens tirke...

 

It's called selective memory. Some Operatives got to 50 very fast, they skilled Biochem and got Champion gear. Then they could pop their adrenal, relic and expertise stim and kill undergeared players within seconds before thet nerf.

 

But instead of fixing Biochem for PvP (or making other crafting skills more viable) Bioware completely overreacted and nerfed Operatives into the ground.

 

Result: Operatives are by far the weakest class in PvP and even more useless in PvE

 

 

 

I am playing a Scoundrel and there is a player in my guild (Commando healer) who tells me all the time who overpowered Scoundrels are (because in the past he got killed by some of the hardcore PvP Operatives on my server pre-nerf).

So I said lets make a duel so you can see for yourself how it is against MOST Ops/Scs AFTER the patch. In this duel I used an expertise stim and my relic (I don't have Biochem skilled), came from stealth, did all the damage I could do ASAP, restealthed + opened on him again. I was able to drop him to around 40% HP, then he healed himself back up to 100%. I was feeling more like a mosquito than a DD to be honest. And I was wearing full champion gear + BM implants/earpiece, while he was wearing mostly champion + a few pieces centurion.

But here is the kicker: Even though our duel had such an obvious result, he STILL thinks that Ops/Scoundrels do too much damage.

 

Selective memory is a *****.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Ich_Bin

[MrSteak]

I remember thinking ops/soundrels did way too much damage because I would get knocked down and killed before the 2 seconds was up. Huge 7k crits, not even joking. I decided I would try one just to see for myself if it was an op class. Then the nerf-bat. Then the other nerf-bat. Right now stealth DPS on either seems like a gimped class. I should not have to expend everything I have (attacks and stuns) trying to get someone down to half health all the while praying that they don't get healed.

 

A stealth rogueish character SHOULD be able to burn down one target in PVP like they used to, it's what they do. And considering that they'll likely be under fire after they break stealth, and therefore they'll probably die, I think it's fair. Taking that ability away basically makes them a somewhat surprising punching bag.

[wiazabi]

#Ich_bin

 

Know a vanguard with same mentality, you can still get kills so its balanced.

 

And lol at the powertech video, his opener 1500 dmg, back blast 2k and powertech even gets his 2.5k medal and IF he had used his shield early instead of low hp he would have won hands down and why no stun?

 

So lets think about this, he got the jump and barely managed to get the kill cause this powertech forgot to use his stun/shield.

 

We can discuss its a bad idea to jump a tank class in the first place except with swtor dps and healing is part of heavy armor classes so we kinda need to have the ability to take em down but for some reason alot of people seems to forget they have to die but its like the mentality of people is the only class i can accept to be killed by is my own(mirror) class.

 

I like my pvp and pve if i only wanted to pvp i wouldnt be playing an mmorpg(should probely remove one m since massively isnt part of game), but as it is right now were a burden to both sides since other classes fill our role better.

 

Was knockdown over the top? yes.

Was buff stacking bad? Big YES.

Was opener dmg to high? Without buffstacking and on equal geared No.

Was armor penetration to high? No.

Was Surge stacking? Maybe but there was no damn alternative and still isnt.

 

And here is one thing i find pretty crazy and didnt understand why we were allowed to do and that is ShootFirst/HiddenStrike x 2 because of vanish, and with at the time high dmg opener it made the class seem insane since you could with full buff stacking just lay down any person of your choice. Keep in mind other classes could also do the buff stack for insane dmg but didnt have the choice to double it like scoundrel/ops with vanish.

[Irishbrewed]

Good vid, makes me wanna roll an op.

[Labradoraki]

It's called selective memory. Some Operatives got to 50 very fast, they skilled Biochem and got Champion gear. Then they could pop their adrenal, relic and expertise stim and kill undergeared players within seconds before thet nerf.

 

But instead of fixing Biochem for PvP (or making other crafting skills more viable) Bioware completely overreacted and nerfed Operatives into the ground.

 

Result: Operatives are by far the weakest class in PvP and even more useless in PvE

 

 

 

I am playing a Scoundrel and there is a player in my guild (Commando healer) who tells me all the time who overpowered Scoundrels are (because in the past he got killed by some of the hardcore PvP Operatives on my server pre-nerf).

So I said lets make a duel so you can see for yourself how it is against MOST Ops/Scs AFTER the patch. In this duel I used an expertise stim and my relic (I don't have Biochem skilled), came from stealth, did all the damage I could do ASAP, restealthed + opened on him again. I was able to drop him to around 40% HP, then he healed himself back up to 100%. I was feeling more like a mosquito than a DD to be honest. And I was wearing full champion gear + BM implants/earpiece, while he was wearing mostly champion + a few pieces centurion.

But here is the kicker: Even though our duel had such an obvious result, he STILL thinks that Ops/Scoundrels do too much damage.

 

Selective memory is a *****.

omg your SOOOO right, i want to have your babies

[Waagabond]

They do need a buff, to sustained damage.

 

Just make suckerpunch have 100% chance to proc flying fists instead of 50%, and reduce the cooldown of flying fists from 10 second to 3 (it adds a few hundred damage only but atleast gives an upper hand).

And add sucker punch to Underdog talent (30% more crit damage)

And the class is balanced also for PVE, without recieving a massive burst gonus.

 

That shoot first crits as hard as a grav round or tracer missile crit is pretty sad though.

 

The class is not balanced. Its good, as any other class, in able hands.

But it relies very much on its cds and the usage of relics and adrenals to achieve good results.

 

Stockstrike from a vanguard when tank specd hits harder then sucker punch and as hard as backblast.

[Labradoraki]

Good vid, makes me wanna roll an op.

 

lol, i am pretty ssure thats a big lie x

[Mizhas]

It's called selective memory. Some Operatives got to 50 very fast, they skilled Biochem and got Champion gear. Then they could pop their adrenal, relic and expertise stim and kill undergeared players within seconds before thet nerf.

 

But instead of fixing Biochem for PvP (or making other crafting skills more viable) Bioware completely overreacted and nerfed Operatives into the ground.

 

Result: Operatives are by far the weakest class in PvP and even more useless in PvE

 

 

 

I am playing a Scoundrel and there is a player in my guild (Commando healer) who tells me all the time who overpowered Scoundrels are (because in the past he got killed by some of the hardcore PvP Operatives on my server pre-nerf).

So I said lets make a duel so you can see for yourself how it is against MOST Ops/Scs AFTER the patch. In this duel I used an expertise stim and my relic (I don't have Biochem skilled), came from stealth, did all the damage I could do ASAP, restealthed + opened on him again. I was able to drop him to around 40% HP, then he healed himself back up to 100%. I was feeling more like a mosquito than a DD to be honest. And I was wearing full champion gear + BM implants/earpiece, while he was wearing mostly champion + a few pieces centurion.

But here is the kicker: Even though our duel had such an obvious result, he STILL thinks that Ops/Scoundrels do too much damage.

 

Selective memory is a *****.

 

You wanna know why Operatives/scoundrels are considered OP? read below.

 

Team based PvP

 

When 1 single dps can drop your life to 40% within 2 seconds imagine what 2 dps working together could do.

Now check how many casts/seconds takes to a healer to bring that health back to max.

 

The nerfs came because Operatives/scoundrels were able to kill people before a healer could cast any heal on their targets. (not even talking if the target was the healer himself)

 

This game is not balanced all over 1 vs 1 situations so stop giving duel feedback cause it means nothing. Any Operative/scoundrel can hire a tank, get a guard + a healer and start feeling like a god in the battlefield.

You guys have a nice burst and the survavility comes from your groupm8s.

 

Now someone may tell us that other classes have even bigger bursts, well the difference with a mercenary/trooper for example is that they have to load up wich mean you see the burst comming. Operatives burst is totally unexpected, unpredicteable and that makes it much more dangerous than other classes one.

AGAIN, This is not a 1 vs 1 balanced game !!!!

[Masahiko]

It's called selective memory. Some Operatives got to 50 very fast, they skilled Biochem and got Champion gear. Then they could pop their adrenal, relic and expertise stim and kill undergeared players within seconds before thet nerf.

 

But instead of fixing Biochem for PvP (or making other crafting skills more viable) Bioware completely overreacted and nerfed Operatives into the ground.

 

Result: Operatives are by far the weakest class in PvP and even more useless in PvE

 

 

 

I am playing a Scoundrel and there is a player in my guild (Commando healer) who tells me all the time who overpowered Scoundrels are (because in the past he got killed by some of the hardcore PvP Operatives on my server pre-nerf).

So I said lets make a duel so you can see for yourself how it is against MOST Ops/Scs AFTER the patch. In this duel I used an expertise stim and my relic (I don't have Biochem skilled), came from stealth, did all the damage I could do ASAP, restealthed + opened on him again. I was able to drop him to around 40% HP, then he healed himself back up to 100%. I was feeling more like a mosquito than a DD to be honest. And I was wearing full champion gear + BM implants/earpiece, while he was wearing mostly champion + a few pieces centurion.

But here is the kicker: Even though our duel had such an obvious result, he STILL thinks that Ops/Scoundrels do too much damage.

 

Selective memory is a *****.

 

This is whats wrong with most player bases now. He was upset that you were able to take him to 40% INSTEAD of looking at the fight overall. Ops were strong, really strong but when they changed stacking buffs they also just changed ops/scs relying on mostly the old data (or so it would seem). While the op did alright in getting kills i would guess that more cordinated teams would murder ops and SCS as soon as they pop because of that lack of other tools.

 

You wanna know why Operatives/scoundrels are considered OP? read below.

 

Team based PvP

 

When 1 single dps can drop your life to 40% within 2 seconds imagine what 2 dps working together could do.

Now check how many casts/seconds takes to a healer to bring that health back to max.

 

The nerfs came because Operatives/scoundrels were able to kill people before a healer could cast any heal on their targets. (not even talking if the target was the healer himself)

 

This game is not balanced all over 1 vs 1 situations so stop giving duel feedback cause it means nothing. Any Operative/scoundrel can hire a tank, get a guard + a healer and start feeling like a god in the battlefield.

You guys have a nice burst and the survavility comes from your groupm8s.

 

Now someone may tell us that other classes have even bigger bursts, well the difference with a mercenary/trooper for example is that they have to load up wich mean you see the burst comming. Operatives burst is totally unexpected, unpredicteable and that makes it much more dangerous than other classes one.

AGAIN, This is not a 1 vs 1 balanced game !!!!

 

I dont understand this mentality when people say the game isnt balance 1v1 then talk about the backend burst of the other classes like its something to aspire to. If the game isnt balanced 1v1 why do i see threads complaining about classes that only 1v1. Mercs/Commandos Tracer/grav isnt some amazing aoe party killing ability. It is a single target damage ramp that leads to that backend damage burst.

 

So the game isnt balanced for 1v1 and yet they happen and people complain about another class when they lose. Players put them selves in places where this happens and instead of saying hey he had better abilities FOR THAT SITUATION than i did they come to the forums and complain endlessly.

 

Inquis have too much utility though...

Edited February 17, 2012 by Masahiko

[BobaFurz]

The video is quiete good and explains some flaws with the operative currently. Ranged classes in this game have just the upper hand in group pvp if they work together. There are too many of them.

 

By the way he mentioned that his dps is similar from the classes who use range and this is what I think needs to change, a close combat class should have the higher dps in close combat and not the same like a ranged class. This seems to be messed up and they should already release a combat log so we can compare the classes.

 

There is one thing what he doesnt talk about, that he actually can use heals and other classes have no escape aswell with medium armor.

Edited February 17, 2012 by BobaFurz

[Labradoraki]

ignore them ich_bin, they are under the selective memory spell you were talking about and talk again about the godburst in their dream, dont feel bad about their madness, i love you so much, your the best wookie ever and i want to marry u xD Edited February 17, 2012 by Labradoraki

[Khadroth]

 

This is to counter the whinner that say operatives at 50 are doing 5k damage to geared players while in truth, we can barely do 3k damage and that is only by using trinkets.... our damage is weak and barely takes out someones half health even if they crit...

 

I agree with the OP.

 

Nerf Operatives.

[BobaFurz]

At 5:40 you see really the problem of CC in this game and the broken resolve bar.

 

He gets 2x Knockbacks and his resolve bar is just at 60% around....

[Sookster]

watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=undHHGrk7p4

 

operatives/scoundrels are fine.

 

^ is that columi gear you're wearing? If so that's 0% expertise vs a scounderal that has 10-12% expertise.

 

Since the big nerf (and the surge nerf) I haven't seen a hidden strike past 1700 damage against equal geared targets, if I want to do good damage I HAVE to pop a relic and stim. It's frustrating which is why I stick to lethality which holds up better, but sadly I expect people to ***** about lethality soon.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Sookster

[AxelJacobs]

I don't think we are underpowered.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/newspec.jpg/#

 

From a voidstar two nights ago.. no it's not a picture of my best game, but it was my first game after I switched to a new spec to try some stuff out.

 

Definitely the old concealment spec sucks and I laugh at operatives that jump on me with it now. They pretty much just tickle, and are a little annoying. I switch specs a lot on my operative.

If I am heal spec and a concealment operative jumps on me, I can just ignore him and keep my hots on and keep on healing. Him beating on me will never kill me. Lethality ops can kill me, but I'm pretty good at removing DOTS, and if you remove their dots, well, they are useless.

 

But maybe if something isn't working for you. Try to switch things up. Try some new specs. Expirement. It's cheap. Operative forums have a bunch of new specs that people have found viable. Granted none of them are concealment.

 

This is the way MMOs always go. Class A is really effective. Other classes whine because Class A kills them too fast and is OP so the forums get flooded with whining. Devs respond by nerfing class A. Forums are flooded with class A complaining they are underpowered. Other classes cheer and laugh at class A in their responses on the forums. All classes turn attention on the next most powerful class. This vicious cycle continues until all classes get nerfed. Then Devs start to look at rebuffing classes where they over nerfed them. Sometimes this results in a class becoming Overpowered yet again. (Example from the other game: Paladins, how many times were they buffed,nerfed, then buffed, then nerfed.)

 

So my point is. All classes get nerfed. All classes eventually get rebuffed. The FOTM class is always changing. Right now it's SORC. Everyone and their mother is a SORC. One day, they will get nerfed, and then the FOTM will change.

[Sevvy]

watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=undHHGrk7p4

 

operatives/scoundrels are fine.

 

Dude, you're AP spec in this video. AP is HORRIBLE. Not decent, not okay, horrible.

 

I haven't lost to an Operative in Pyro/Iron Fist spec since they've been nerfed. It was an overnerf. The whole class needs reworking.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Sevvy

[Labradoraki]

omg you won a totally skilled warzones, that undeniable proof that operatives are fine.... i can reach top of the scoreboard too the problem is in the balance, our damage needs a buff since its too weak right now so ti will eba ble to challenge others effectively....

 

 

anyoen btw can be top in wz if he follows his team herd

[Masahiko]

I don't think we are underpowered.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/newspec.jpg/#

 

From a voidstar two nights ago.. no it's not a picture of my best game, but it was my first game after I switched to a new spec to try some stuff out.

 

Definitely the old concealment spec sucks and I laugh at operatives that jump on me with it now. They pretty much just tickle, and are a little annoying. I switch specs a lot on my operative.

If I am heal spec and a concealment operative jumps on me, I can just ignore him and keep my hots on and keep on healing. Him beating on me will never kill me. Lethality ops can kill me, but I'm pretty good at removing DOTS, and if you remove their dots, well, they are useless.

 

But maybe if something isn't working for you. Try to switch things up. Try some new specs. Expirement. It's cheap. Operative forums have a bunch of new specs that people have found viable. Granted none of them are concealment.

 

This is the way MMOs always go. Class A is really effective. Other classes whine because Class A kills them too fast and is OP so the forums get flooded with whining. Devs respond by nerfing class A. Forums are flooded with class A complaining they are underpowered. Other classes cheer and laugh at class A in their responses on the forums. All classes turn attention on the next most powerful class. This vicious cycle continues until all classes get nerfed. Then Devs start to look at rebuffing classes where they over nerfed them. Sometimes this results in a class becoming Overpowered yet again. (Example from the other game: Paladins, how many times were they buffed,nerfed, then buffed, then nerfed.)

 

So my point is. All classes get nerfed. All classes eventually get rebuffed. The FOTM class is always changing. Right now it's SORC. Everyone and their mother is a SORC. One day, they will get nerfed, and then the FOTM will change.

 

I disagree with premise of your post. To say an Ops is ok because some weird spec is working except that a whole tree is sub par and even you consider a joke when attacking you is something far from fine. While other may enjoy the healing on the Skirmisher play style. Some people do enjoy that stealth combat and armor shred. That being said i have nothing against people that want to play differently than me.

 

Just because it happens in other games doesnt make it right unless the numbers are really showing hey this ability does way too much damage on its own. On its own means without every buff under the sun.

 

Also removing dots as an op isnt the hardest thing to do.

[AxelJacobs]

Im just saying, no matter how much you whine right now. Concealment isn't going to get fixed. period. not for a long time, once devs realize that nobody is playing it.

 

What Devs should really be asking themselves right now is. Why are over 70% of the people in BGs Sorcs/Sages

[Sookster]

I don't think we are underpowered.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/newspec.jpg/#

 

From a voidstar two nights ago.. no it's not a picture of my best game, but it was my first game after I switched to a new spec to try some stuff out.

 

Definitely the old concealment spec sucks and I laugh at operatives that jump on me with it now. They pretty much just tickle, and are a little annoying. I switch specs a lot on my operative.

If I am heal spec and a concealment operative jumps on me, I can just ignore him and keep my hots on and keep on healing. Him beating on me will never kill me. Lethality ops can kill me, but I'm pretty good at removing DOTS, and if you remove their dots, well, they are useless.

 

But maybe if something isn't working for you. Try to switch things up. Try some new specs. Expirement. It's cheap. Operative forums have a bunch of new specs that people have found viable. Granted none of them are concealment.

 

This is the way MMOs always go. Class A is really effective. Other classes whine because Class A kills them too fast and is OP so the forums get flooded with whining. Devs respond by nerfing class A. Forums are flooded with class A complaining they are underpowered. Other classes cheer and laugh at class A in their responses on the forums. All classes turn attention on the next most powerful class. This vicious cycle continues until all classes get nerfed. Then Devs start to look at rebuffing classes where they over nerfed them. Sometimes this results in a class becoming Overpowered yet again. (Example from the other game: Paladins, how many times were they buffed,nerfed, then buffed, then nerfed.)

 

So my point is. All classes get nerfed. All classes eventually get rebuffed. The FOTM class is always changing. Right now it's SORC. Everyone and their mother is a SORC. One day, they will get nerfed, and then the FOTM will change.

 

I can tell you're a med/lethality with the stuff on the toolbar, those numbers are typically what I get as well on mine, corrosive grenade generates alot of overall damage on the scoreboard and just keeping people alive left and right. Yeah not so underpowered.

 

But 1 on 1 I HAVE to get the jump on the guy to pull off a couple cull shots.

 

Oh and I don't expect sage/sorcs to get nerfed in a long time, maybe BW will change their talent trees around to eliminate hybrids, but Mythic is working with BW and this is a repeat of Warhammer's bright wizards.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Sookster

[AxelJacobs]

Also, just because ONE spec on a class no longer is effective it doesn't make the whole class ineffective. Your thread shouldn't be about operatives then, it should just be a complaint about concealment tree.

[Labradoraki]

Im just saying, no matter how much you whine right now. Concealment isn't going to get fixed. period. not for a long time, once devs realize that nobody is playing it.

 

What Devs should really be asking themselves right now is. Why are over 80% of the people in BGs Sorcs/Sages and mercs/commandos

 

fixed

[Migrayn]

You wanna know why Operatives/scoundrels are considered OP? read below.

 

Team based PvP

 

When 1 single dps can drop your life to 40% within 2 seconds imagine what 2 dps working together could do.

Now check how many casts/seconds takes to a healer to bring that health back to max.

 

The nerfs came because Operatives/scoundrels were able to kill people before a healer could cast any heal on their targets. (not even talking if the target was the healer himself)

 

This game is not balanced all over 1 vs 1 situations so stop giving duel feedback cause it means nothing. Any Operative/scoundrel can hire a tank, get a guard + a healer and start feeling like a god in the battlefield.

You guys have a nice burst and the survavility comes from your groupm8s.

 

Now someone may tell us that other classes have even bigger bursts, well the difference with a mercenary/trooper for example is that they have to load up wich mean you see the burst comming. Operatives burst is totally unexpected, unpredicteable and that makes it much more dangerous than other classes one.

AGAIN, This is not a 1 vs 1 balanced game !!!!

 

Right so needing 2 people to kill 1 person is balanced? That means the other team can go 2v1 on your side as well. As you said its not balanced 1v1 but team v team. Well if each team goes 2v1 on a person, each team will loose 1 person to a death. Its still equal and balanced.

 

Your logic is fail.

 

Most other classes can do just as much burst as a scoundrel yet they are way more durable. You don't see 100 Mercs and troopers because they suck. No you see that many because they are the real OP.