Perspective for those who want it NAO!

[Mamono]

And despite all of that, it still choked out. It is doing okay, but not breaking any records. You see, despite how much people harp on it, those features actually don't make the game.

 

DCUO is another good example of this. Had LFG at launch, had appearance at launch with full color customization, had duos, hardmode, hardermodes, and several raids and yet it really died quick.

 

DCUO was one of the wors MMO ever made. The killer of that game was consol.

 

The game was made for Playstation, and then converted to PC. That is why it went so bad. Worst MMO ever released because of that. I cant believe that someone thought that making a MMO for playstation was a good idea.

And talk about the bugs in the game. Oh god. They did not add the chance of turning of the profanity filter until 1 year after release.

The whole game was a huge disaster.

 

But the point is, other games has it. Why should so huge a game like ToR not have it? It is pure laziness and stupidity.

 

Now they add a new UI. 1/2 a year after release will it come. Now they add dual-spec, will probably come 1/2 a year after release. And same with LFD.

All of this should already have been in the game at release.

 

If they had this, they would have a lot more subscribers. More and more people are leaving. Every day I notes that my server, that was one of the highest populated in EU, is being less and less crowded. It is harder to get group and less people log on. I notices the guild is loosing people, and other guilds are loosing people. I notes that more and more guilds are asking for merging to be able to raid.

 

They released the game way to early with to little MMO effects in the game.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Mamono

[Emeda]

I keep reading posts about stuff people want that should have went in at launch, then saying WoW's got it...why cant we?

 

Here's some perspective:

 

LFG tool - WoW did not add this feature in until the end of 2006, two years after release.

 

Dual Talents - WoW did not add this feature in until mid 2009, five years after release.

 

And many other similar features.

 

As a playerbase, a lot of people are trying to whine and beg for a 7 year old release bemoth to already exist for a 2 month old release infant. Bioware has already said that they're working on developing most of the stuff we want.

 

To end this little foray into reality vs. fantasy and wishful thinking, here's the word of the day:

 

pa·tience

   [pey-shuhns]

noun

1.

the quality of being patient, as the bearing of provocation, annoyance, misfortune, or pain, without complaint, loss of temper, irritation, or the like.

2.

an ability or willingness to suppress restlessness or annoyance when confronted with delay

 

LFG and Duel talents are just signs that the game is done. Not enough people to play with in the game? lets add alfg so we can merge all the servers without having to merge the servers. Lets let everyone have 2 specs so they can do 2 of the 3 jobs in the game so it will look like more people are around.

 

Any game that has it in at launch is killing itself before they even start.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Emeda

[MillionsKNives]

Let me turn this around.

 

Rift had LFG from the start of the game.

Rift had dual spec from the start of the game.

 

If you compare a 200million dollar game released in 2012 (more or less) you are quite ignorant and narrow-minded your self.

 

This is the worlds most expencive game EVER released.

This is the worlds BIGGEST mmo release.

This game has the worlds one of the BIGGEST media name behind it. Star Wars.

 

You can NOT defend how much stuff this games are missing. There is no good reason why it should not have been in the game from the start.

 

Rift was made with 50 million dollar, ToR used 200million.

Rift used 5 years in the making, ToR used 6 years.

 

This game is the BEHEMOTH of ALL MMO EVER RELEASED!!!!!!!! and still a "indigame" can beat this behemoth when it comes to MMO content and stuff.

 

Like UI. ToR has one of the worst UI's ever made. They are changing it now yes, but that is just way to late. This was an issue alredy in early beta. Only FF and DCUO had worse. This game dont even have a /roll system.

You cant even open your guild window and rightclick guild members to invite them to a group or whisper them. you can that a fantastic MMO system? The most expencive game ever released? Even 2 month after release you have more or less nothing new. All they did with the patch was adding somethng that alredy should have been in at release.

 

There is only one thing that made this and it was way to early release. The game would need 1/2 a year still in the making.

 

Remove ALL that has to do with story, and voice acting, what are you left with then? An "ok" singel-player game with co-op option. Eccept from the story, there is nothing in the game that makes the game the behemoth it should be. Nothing. The game has not 1 good MMO part that is better then any other game out there.

"It is Star Wars", only a bloodhard fan uses that as an excuse.

 

Small quality of life features does not make a game more content rich. More content does.

 

This game is meant to last years, and you think them not being implemented for 2-3 months makes it too late?

[MillionsKNives]

LFG and Duel talents are just signs that the game is done. Not enough people to play with in the game? lets add alfg so we can merge all the servers without having to merge the servers. Lets let everyone have 2 specs so they can do 2 of the 3 jobs in the game so it will look like more people are around.

 

Any game that has it in at launch is killing itself before they even start.

 

Wait, now the game shouldn't have them? I'm confused. Do we or do we not want these features?

 

You're also saying that having them spells the doom for the game, so what about WoW, which has had them for years? It should be dead then.

[grueber]

People were not deserting WoW for lack of things to do 2-3 months after launch.

[Mamono]

Small quality of life features does not make a game more content rich. More content does.

 

This game is meant to last years, and you think them not being implemented for 2-3 months makes it too late?

 

Not this days. People tryes out the game, and leave for a new one that they feel is better, and will not come back because of the "bad/not so good" experiance they had in this game. And they will tell their friends. I for sure will not tell any friends of my to buy this game as it is now if they want an MMO game. The game simply lacking all kinds of MMO stuff. Not even a propper guild system is in the game.

 

Take the support as an example. Probably the worst support you will see in any MMO that is out. They have only telephone support for 3 countrys in EU. If I should get problems with my account I HAVE to call them because they do not have e-mail support or live support.

That will cost me 1 euro a minute to do.

 

In game support. Oh the randomnes. You have people getting help after 45 minuts, and you have people getting an automaticly responce 3 weeks after they asked.

 

I have one case in at the support now. Made it a week ago. I made a new one today with the problem.

They locked the new ticket, locked it without any words why they did it, and did nothing with my old one.... And that was after 3 minuts.

You call that good support?

 

It is this kinda things that people will remember.

 

And as I said, this game is the behemoth of all games ever released. The price tag shows it.

 

This game is like buying a Rolls-Royce, but with nothing off good stuff like aircon, 2liter engine instead of an 5 liter, no sun roof, no minibar, no nothing.

Just the skin of a Rolls-Royce, with the same price tag. That is what this game is.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Mamono

[Dire-Wolf]

And despite all of that, it still choked out. It is doing okay, but not breaking any records. You see, despite how much people harp on it, those features actually don't make the game.

 

DCUO is another good example of this. Had LFG at launch, had appearance at launch with full color customization, had duos, hardmode, hardermodes, and several raids and yet it really died quick.

 

Choked out? Last I checked Rift was holding its own. A game doesn't need 10 million subscribers to be a success.

 

Also you know nothing about DCUO. The appearance tab was probably its most praised feature even by people who didn't like the game. It didn't have a LFG tool at launch, that's a complete lie. Yes it had duos, hardmodes and raids but those duos and hardmodes where just running the same content you already ran while leveling up and those raids where damn hard to get into unless you were in a super hardcore guild.

 

DCUO was a great game with an interesting story, fun pvp and probably the best combat any mmo has ever had. Its problem was that it rushed you to end game and then gave you nothing to do once you got there but the same things you'd already done.

 

Please don't come in and start telling lies about other MMOs to try and bolster your arguments for TOR. You probably haven't even played either of those games.

[Dirtybomb]

LFG and Duel talents are just signs that the game is done. Not enough people to play with in the game? lets add alfg so we can merge all the servers without having to merge the servers. Lets let everyone have 2 specs so they can do 2 of the 3 jobs in the game so it will look like more people are around.

 

Any game that has it in at launch is killing itself before they even start.

 

The world were guilds rule and everyone wanted to be everyone else's friend in mmo's is over. I won't use LFG when the put it in, but I can understand why they have it. A lot of the player base expects to be able to see content when it is convenient for them. They aren't going to sit in the fleet trying to find people to run with out of general chat. That's all there is to it. BW needs to put in a LFG or people will start to leave.

 

As far as dual specs is concerned, yeah, I don't get why people feel they need a different spec for soloing vs. group content. Just seems like they're lazy. But, on the other hand, if BW is going to include talents in the trees that have absolutely no use in a PVE situation, they are telling people that if you want to be as effective as you can be in PVP, you need to gimp yourself for PVE. That's not cool. Dual spec will cure that. If you are going to have totally different aspects to a game, don't make people suffer at one to enjoy the other.

[Nymaeria]

And despite all of that, it still choked out. It is doing okay, but not breaking any records. . .

 

Actually, it just set a record - most in-game weddings in a 24 hour period. ^.^

[Mamono]

Choked out? Last I checked Rift was holding its own. A game doesn't need 10 million subscribers to be a success.

 

Also you know nothing about DCUO. The appearance tab was probably its most praised feature even by people who didn't like the game. It didn't have a LFG tool at launch, that's a complete lie. Yes it had duos, hardmodes and raids but those duos and hardmodes where just running the same content you already ran while leveling up and those raids where damn hard to get into unless you were in a super hardcore guild.

 

DCUO was a great game with an interesting story, fun pvp and probably the best combat any mmo has ever had. Its problem was that it rushed you to end game and then gave you nothing to do once you got there but the same things you'd already done.

 

Please don't come in and start telling lies about other MMOs to try and bolster your arguments for TOR. You probably haven't even played either of those games.

 

I have to say I hate DCUO as a MMO, but the appearance tab they have is fantastic. I so wish that other games would do that. It was pure fantastic.

 

But that was all that I really liked about the game. What I hated the most about the game, was the automaticly groups system they had.

You made a group with your friends. 1 friend DC and before he gets in a new guyu is taking his place. That was so god damne annoying.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Mamono

[Aquiraj]

I keep reading posts about stuff people want that should have went in at launch, then saying WoW's got it...why cant we?

 

Here's some perspective:

 

LFG tool - WoW did not add this feature in until the end of 2006, two years after release.

 

Dual Talents - WoW did not add this feature in until mid 2009, five years after release.

 

And many other similar features.

 

As a playerbase, a lot of people are trying to whine and beg for a 7 year old release bemoth to already exist for a 2 month old release infant. Bioware has already said that they're working on developing most of the stuff we want.

 

To end this little foray into reality vs. fantasy and wishful thinking, here's the word of the day:

 

pa·tience

   [pey-shuhns]

noun

1.

the quality of being patient, as the bearing of provocation, annoyance, misfortune, or pain, without complaint, loss of temper, irritation, or the like.

2.

an ability or willingness to suppress restlessness or annoyance when confronted with delay

 

 

 

This is 2012...not 2004, 2006, or 2009.

[Emeda]

Wait, now the game shouldn't have them? I'm confused. Do we or do we not want these features?

 

You're also saying that having them spells the doom for the game, so what about WoW, which has had them for years? It should be dead then.

 

WoW has been dead for a few years. Thats why they have to add in new expansions and raise the level cap to keep players.

 

Each expansion is a new game. Its not a true expansion because everything before it is outdated and useless, its not expanding but replacing.

 

Would like to see a game that has grown once these features were added.

[Halacs]

And despite all of that, it still choked out. It is doing okay, but not breaking any records. You see, despite how much people harp on it, those features actually don't make the game.

 

DCUO is another good example of this. Had LFG at launch, had appearance at launch with full color customization, had duos, hardmode, hardermodes, and several raids and yet it really died quick.

 

This post had nothing to with success. That is a whole other thread.

[Mamono]

As far as dual specs is concerned, yeah, I don't get why people feel they need a different spec for soloing vs. group content. Just seems like they're lazy. But, on the other hand, if BW is going to include talents in the trees that have absolutely no use in a PVE situation, they are telling people that if you want to be as effective as you can be in PVP, you need to gimp yourself for PVE. That's not cool. Dual spec will cure that. If you are going to have totally different aspects to a game, don't make people suffer at one to enjoy the other.

 

If you are in a small guild (say 20-30 people where 10-15 is active) you will have situations where you have 1 tank missing or 1 healer missing etc etc. Having dual-spec is then nice to have.

Even when you try doing PuG FP's. I now shouts the fleets for a PuG FP for hours as a healer without being able to get one, but now and then I see they ask for DPS instead. Would be nice to be able to say, "I can dps".

The 1 reset a week is not good enough. I cant afford the respec payment at the end of the week.

 

Or if you want to play with your RL friends that is in an other guild? You need to be of 1 spec because of the raiding in your guild, but your RL friends lack something ells when you do not raid. Lets say you are to many tanks just to say something wierd. To be able to change would then put it so you can run FPs with your RL friends too.

[Dirtybomb]

Would like to see a game that has grown once these features were added.

 

Would like to see a game that you can prove was destroyed by adding these features.

[Kalfear]

If BioWare made a telephone, I'd be perfectly happy waiting ~136 years for them to implement touchscreens. Only makes sense.

 

lol, while I dont think most of the stuff being asked for on this forum actually help the game (Macros, LFG, ect)

 

YOUR BANG ON with what you said.

 

WOW not having at launch is no excuse for TOR not having, unless they dont plan to ever have, which id be perfectly ok with regarding 80% of the demands out here!

 

Much rather they focus on socialization, interaction, community, leveling speed curve, game toughness, feeling of acheivement and accomplishment concepts and details.

 

Well said Aryzyra, well said.

 

So tired of the forgive everything fanbois.

They really have no clue how much damage they doing forgiving and excusing everything like they insist on doing regarding every single topic.

 

I said frequently in beta

 

During beta people have no right to complain about unfinished or unrealized content as its beta and thats what its for. But once retail hits, EVERY SINGLE COMPLAINT is valid and worthy of mention. Some will not be in Biowares plans and thats fine but many shouldnt be issues if fully developed elsewhere before now.

[Emeda]

The world were guilds rule and everyone wanted to be everyone else's friend in mmo's is over. I won't use LFG when the put it in, but I can understand why they have it. A lot of the player base expects to be able to see content when it is convenient for them. They aren't going to sit in the fleet trying to find people to run with out of general chat. That's all there is to it. BW needs to put in a LFG or people will start to leave.

Believe me if they only added LFG and didnt fix or add anything else the subs would still drop. LFG might hold some players for a month but they would still leave and more would leave because of the LFG

 

As far as dual specs is concerned, yeah, I don't get why people feel they need a different spec for soloing vs. group content. Just seems like they're lazy. But, on the other hand, if BW is going to include talents in the trees that have absolutely no use in a PVE situation, they are telling people that if you want to be as effective as you can be in PVP, you need to gimp yourself for PVE. That's not cool. Dual spec will cure that. If you are going to have totally different aspects to a game, don't make people suffer at one to enjoy the other.

 

Let them add a PVP only spec that is activated once you enter a warzone. Problem solved. Why should there be a different spec anyways should be the question, fighting is fighting and it shouldnt be any different if your fighting me or a NPC.

[Aloro]

You're preaching to the choir. The people who don't understand this already won't understand it now. They have their irrational senses of entitlement and they don't care about anything else.

 

They'll just insist that they want it, and that should be enough. They don't want your excuses or explanations or cold hard facts. They want everything [game X] had, in this game, RIGHT NOW. They'll say things like "this isn't [year z]" while disregarding all the time and money that went into [game X] between [year z] and now. They'll point out a feature that exists in one or two games and insist that it's an "industry standard" and must be in every new game, despite the fact that this feature wasn't in [game x] at launch.

 

In short, they don't care about patches or expansions. They expect every new game to ship with the same polished experience that a game [2012-year z] years old has.

 

And they'll probably flame me for this, too.

[Dirtybomb]

If you are in a small guild (say 20-30 people where 10-15 is active) you will have situations where you have 1 tank missing or 1 healer missing etc etc. Having dual-spec is then nice to have.

Even when you try doing PuG FP's. I now shouts the fleets for a PuG FP for hours as a healer without being able to get one, but now and then I see they ask for DPS instead. Would be nice to be able to say, "I can dps".

The 1 reset a week is not good enough. I cant afford the respec payment at the end of the week.

 

Or if you want to play with your RL friends that is in an other guild? You need to be of 1 spec because of the raiding in your guild, but your RL friends lack something ells when you do not raid. Lets say you are to many tanks just to say something wierd. To be able to change would then put it so you can run FPs with your RL friends too.

 

I can sort of see the small guild benefit. Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing against dual spec. I want it. My example was specifically aimed at the tanks and healers that complain that their dailies take too long because they can't spec DPS for them.

 

I just think that the only real need regarding dual spec is the PVE/PVP talent issues. The rest of the benefits are just gravy.

[Knewt]

Small quality of life features does not make a game more content rich. More content does.

 

This game is meant to last years, and you think them not being implemented for 2-3 months makes it too late?

Quality of life features will determine the staying power of this game. People will only re-roll alts for so long before giving up on this game because there is no progression for them. In the current market, subscription based MMOs depend on the more casual players to sustain their subscription base.

 

Dedicated raiders and PvPers make up relatively small portions of the player base. If you look at some of the sampling MMO-Champ has performed on the WoW Armory, you'll see people performing raids on the current content(normal and heroic) make up 10-20% of the population.

 

So, if raiders are 20% and PvPers are 20%, that means the other 60% are what most people call casuals. It's the people like me who only play 2-3 hours an evening. I don't want to spend 45 minutes trying to find a group. I want to be productive for those 2-3 hours of game play. Quality of life features like dual specs and a better dungeon finder are extremely important to keeping me engaged when my characters finish Corellia.

[Emeda]

Would like to see a game that you can prove was destroyed by adding these features.

 

No one can prove anything (for or against) but looking at the difference of before things were added and after can give a good idea. The people who dont agree will always say it was something else that caused it.

 

1 A game that is growing doesnt need a LFG because they have the playerbase.

 

2 Adding a LFG allows players to avoid socializing with other players on their server because they no longer have to to get what they want

 

3 LFG also makes it easier for bots and players to afk the entire flashpoint/instance

 

4 LFG also increases the amount of players that will deside to ninja gear.

 

5 LFG also is a direct lead to nerfing content. Players will complain about 3 and 4 and the easy fix is to nerf it so you can still complete it with those players instead of trying to find a solution that will work to stop players from doing this (since they wouldnt remove LFG once they put it in)

 

As for games it destroyed. WOW

 

It once had people all over the worlds, now it is just sit in ORG and click a button and afk untill you get a group and get ported to the instance then finish instance then repeat 7 times till you fill your weekly amount then log onto an alt to repeat the process. It has destroyed any reason to go anywhere in the game unless you are farming mats. Everything else you can sit in org and click buttons

Edited February 16, 2012 by Emeda

[Dirtybomb]

Let them add a PVP only spec that is activated once you enter a warzone. Problem solved. Why should there be a different spec anyways should be the question, fighting is fighting and it shouldnt be any different if your fighting me or a NPC.

 

I'm sort of with you on this part only. If they didn't have PVP-specific talents in the trees, I wouldn't care if dual spec never was implemented. But it isn't about me. A lot of people are used to having dual specs now. Like it or not, that's the way it is. We know dual spec is coming, so the point is kinda moot.

 

And regarding LFG, I feel the number of people that would actually quit if it were implemented is probably quite small. If you are in a guild and don't have a problem putting groups together, you won't care if they implement it. If you are not in a guild and prefer to put groups together the old fashioned way, you can still do that. If you like putting groups together the old fashioned way, but can't anymore once the LFG is implemented, it means that most other people are using the LFG and you are in the minority. So if you quit, who's gonna miss you?

 

Casuals pay the bills, even if they come and go thru a revolving door. Casuals want LFG. I say put it in. It won't damage me one bit. If BW implements something a lot of people want and it kills the game, oh well. I'll find another game. It's just a game.

[Dirtybomb]

No one can prove anything (for or against) but looking at the difference of before things were added and after can give a good idea. The people who dont agree will always say it was something else that caused it.

 

1 A game that is growing doesnt need a LFG because they have the playerbase.

 

2 Adding a LFG allows players to avoid socializing with other players on their server because they no longer have to to get what they want

 

Well, it is a new world. Not wanting LFG so that people are forced to be social with you in order to get what they want sound like a good idea? People in this player base don't necessarily want to make friends with each other. They want to clear content in the short amount of time they want to dedicate to the game. That's just the way it is. For those that still want to be social and skip the LFG, then you still have that option.

 

3 LFG also makes it easier for bots and players to afk the entire flashpoint/instance

 

So don't use LFG and it won't happen to you.

 

4 LFG also increases the amount of players that will deside to ninja gear.

 

So don't use LFG and you won't have to deal with that increased desire.

 

5 LFG also is a direct lead to nerfing content. Players will complain about 3 and 4 and the easy fix is to nerf it so you can still complete it with those players instead of trying to find a solution that will work to stop players from doing this (since they wouldnt remove LFG once they put it in)

 

Players are going to complain anyway. And if you haven't checked lately, the content here in TOR is pretty much faceroll easy until you get to NM.

 

As for games it destroyed. WOW

 

It once had people all over the worlds, now it is just sit in ORG and click a button and afk untill you get a group and get ported to the instance then finish instance then repeat 7 times till you fill your weekly amount then log onto an alt to repeat the process. It has destroyed any reason to go anywhere in the game unless you are farming mats. Everything else you can sit in org and click buttons

 

Oh please. LFG didn't kill WoW. WoW started it's slide in BC and only got worse when wrath came out and they were handing out epics like candy. The dev teams admitted that the heroic gear grind in wrath was unintended and they regretted ever doing it. But the genie was out of the bottle. People expected to faceroll heroics to a full set of epics. Cataclysm came out and tried to correct that, but the people that were used to be handed stuff for AOEing down heroics whined at the new difficulty. "Omg, what does CC mean?". LFG didn't create this mentality. I saw this long before LFG came out.

 

At the end of the day, you can choose not to use LFG and continue doing things the old school way. If it turns out you are one of the few people left wanting to do it that way, then you are in the minority. Just accept it. Don't try to massage the community into the shape you want by denying it features they ask for.

[Lethality]

Don't try to massage the community into the shape you want by denying it features they ask for.

 

The "community" has asked for instant map travel and swapping advanced classes at will... where then do we draw the line?

[gregordunbar]

I keep reading posts about stuff people want that should have went in at launch, then saying WoW's got it...why cant we?

 

No.

 

You think because a game that came out 7 years ago didnt have it at launch means no game did...or should in the future.

 

Some of us are not bound by the past, nor limited to your experience with games. Several games have been released since WoW came out with the features this game not only lacks...but has NO UPCOMING RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENT meaning it MAY NEVER COME.

 

At it wont as long as many people have blinders on and dont demand it.

 

Stop just assuming a game maker is going to do something and MAKE SURE THEY KNOW YOU WANT IT DONE.