Theme Park vs Sandbox, What Do The Players Think?

[BlueFromMoon]

Eh I'm still reserving judgement. I'll wait till the first few months after launch before I start saving up. Though chances are, I'd just drop it for Fallout Online.

 

I dont see why Blizzard want to take so big risk, all this F2P and FPS nonsense. They just dont need to do it. Elder Scroll Online where my hopes are up next. Blizzard fans like to play WoW and like it and like to pay monthly fees too.

Edited May 14, 2012 by BlueFromMoon

[Darth_Moonshadow]

I dont see why Blizzard want to take so big risk, all this F2P and FPS nonsense. They just dont need to do it. Elder Scroll Online where my hopes are up next. Blizzard fans like to play WoW and like it and like to pay monthly fees too.

 

/shrug

 

Well more power to ya. Personally, I've seen the screenshots. Gotta say, it looks alot like RIFT. I hope Fallout Online gets a better look. I can't be scavenging the wasteland looking like a caricature of the Lone Wanderer.

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

You mean like how ToR (while not failing) isn't doing so good? You mean like how DCUO failed while it had a lot of potential? You mean like how CoX never was succesful in the big market or how Tera only caters to anime lovers?

 

Just because you love certain aspects of a game doesn't mean it will prosper. The Secret World is a niche game, niche games will always have their own market (like CoX, EvE, AO) but they do not very often get into the big market. What does this mean for a MMORPG ? It means that it will have its loyal followers but it will never be a big MMORPG and while that never annoys me personally because I like playing around by myself in a digital world the world will indeed be empty of people.

 

At this moment the only one game that has such a big fanbase is WoW and so will D3 as well when it comes out tonight. Look I'm not a fanboy of WoW or a hater of other mmorpgs I just get a little concerned when ppl talk about games like "messiahs" that will break the mold and destroy everything in its path.

It's nice that you have found a game that you love but right now in this time of gaming be a little careful before you blow so much money on a game that needs a constant income of money to exist.

 

Remember the myst mmorpg? Well that was also puzzly and deep, it was in fact so deep that it didn't do well because the market wasn't ready for taht type of game. It's cool that we have some games that try to be innovative but mmorpgs that doesn't make it at least semi big do not survive. This business is survival of the fittest.

 

Not trying to stomp your passion for the game in the ground just giving you a word of caution. Try games out and enjoy them for what is worth but don't believe that one game will live up to your hypes. Trends come and go.

To believe that a single game will be messiah is a very religious fanatic way to experience gaming and path that almost always lead to dissapointment.

 

You know people are always quick with the word "fail", what exactly can fail? The game concept? Or the number of people companies achieve to reach with their marketing? Fail to me means a shut down within half a year, or a shut down during development. Even free to play is not a fail, if the companies still make money with it, e.g. LOTRO.

 

There are great games of different genres which never got much attention. But they still might have been profitable. We don´t know the companies books or when they reach a break even or profit.

 

There are MMOs which run nearly a decade with 100K-500K subscribers and are alive and thriving.

 

Also every game is niche, MMOs in general are a niche, Star Wars is a niche, mystery games are a niche, Anime style is a niche.

TSW will not be a threat to WoW because it has no pandas and no elves, there are people who love elves and fairies and people who hate that (like me).

 

"Messiah games" are a myth, but for me personally Secret World is pretty darn close to it.

TOR could only get my attention again when it takes the better parts of SWG some day.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Lord_Ravenhurst

[Monave]

Personally, I'd love to see (and would pay full price for) a pure sandbox expansion. Three planets (I'll explain why three in more detail in a different post) with districts or zones that phase according to the player or guild's presence (in the same way ships and story areas do now). That kind of thing would be incredible.

 

Excellent post but I'm just quoting the part I have commentary on.

 

I am very curious about your idea and why it is THREE planets. Give me one guess...

 

Is it one planet for each side and a third one to fight over? That would be awesome!

[Niennnasil]

I do believe most of you have sandbox confused. Edited May 14, 2012 by Niennnasil

[redsovereign]

You know people are always quick with the word "fail", what exactly can fail? The game concept? Or the number of people companies achieve to reach with their marketing? Fail to me means a shut down within half a year, or a shut down during development. Even free to play is not a fail, if the companies still make money with it, e.g. LOTRO.

 

I totally agree with you but the most common complain I see on this forums is that "population is dropping" since it seem to be such a big issues with ppl leaving I don't understand how ppl can talk about niche games and believe that they will have millions of players online.

As I stated before the two MMORPG games I've played the longest is CoX and EvE. None of them had millions of subcribers but both are to me amazing games and I've had the most fun ever with my guilds there.

But those two games were not built around the need for having a lot of people running around. You didn't do heroics/dungeons etc (other then sewers in CoX).

 

Esp CoX is a game that you can play entirely by urself and enjoyed every minute of it but the reason I was talking about it is while some ppl leave because of lack of sand-box elements more are leaving cause of an imaginary opinion of population drop.

 

This "messiah" idea about gaming is getting old. ToR has a lot of good things going for it and some not so good (legacy is not a good thing other then on paper) and that is the same for all MMORPGs out there with the exception for WoW (I have to admit this). I agree ToR should have had more sandbox style of design if I were to choose but I think it's a little too late to entirely swap out the game design now.

 

I would never buy a life-time sub because of that games comes and go and that is what is so awesome with this day an age. When I was a kid you didn't have literarry hundreds of MMORPG to choose from. Even though I played CoX for years and years I would never drop a life-time on it because it just isn't worth it and esp not when the game isn't even released.

 

I would never have bought D3 if I hadn't got into the beta but ye, I might be a little too cautious

 

Bottomline: This game is not built to be a sandbox game from the beginning. Implementing sandbox features would prob end up in Bioware having to rerelease the whole game with a different engine, rewrite the whole crafting system etc etc.

 

I have a hard time imagining that you can just throw in some stuf in a future patch to fix this. You need to make a whole new game to make it sandboxy.

Edited May 14, 2012 by redsovereign

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

Excellent post but I'm just quoting the part I have commentary on.

 

I am very curious about your idea and why it is THREE planets. Give me one guess...

 

Is it one planet for each side and a third one to fight over? That would be awesome!

 

Had the same suggestion back in march,

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=380509

 

I agree this makes sense. Less planets, more content on the planets would be the way to go. One new planet each year with new "attractions".

[Niennnasil]

I do believe most of you have sandbox confused. Yes, there is tons of player choice, but the players still have to play by the rules that the developers (god in the game universe) have created.

 

Take

for instance, for best example, Wurm Online defines itself as "limitless opportunity and freedom, where the actions of each player can make a lasting difference.". I find it 100x more challenging than any of the Themepark MMOs I've played. Even something as simple as preparing land for building a house can be an endeavor.

 

 

Lets say there were no limits for development or money making out of a sandbox MMO so an ideal sandbox MMORPG would probably feature the following:

 

 

 

• You will be able to change the world or spaces around you and all other players will be able to see the changes. For example you can build houses and decorate it any way you want. You can modify the terrain; dig, raise, flatten and sculpt the land around you.
   
   
  
• You can change the look and appearance of your avatar any way you want and any time you want during the game play. You can change it without a limit.
   
   
  
• You can define the characteristics of your character and change it during the game. You are not limited to some classes, ...
   
   
  
• You can travel anywhere in the world and explore any area. Some developer designed walls do not limit you to some pre-defined spaces.
   
   
  
• You can choose to be friend or enemies of anyone. You can choose any kind of behavior. Well this selections obviously have consequences since you may make more permanent friends or enemies by some of your decisions. You may be haunted by some factions, guilds,... because you chose to be enemy of one of their members. You can swear you didn't know but it doesn't mean they will accept it.
   
   
  
• You have a saying on the economy. The economy as a whole is player driven and supply and demand of any item by all of the players price the items and not the fixed prices set by developers.
   
   
  
• You can craft many things out of many things. You can craft unique items and sell them for your price to other thirsty players.
   
   
  
• There are no developer based quests and stories in the game. The stories are shaped by the players and you don't have to follow some specific stories to gain experience.
   
   
  
• You can interact with the environment the way you want. You can train, tame or mount many different creatures and can cook or make and eat many things out of many things.
   
   
  
• You can battle any way you want. You can learn or form many fighting skills. You can name your invented skills and teach them to others. They can be magic, range, melee,... or a combination.
   
   
  
• You can make a living of any job. You can be a thief, a burglar, a beggar, a scammer, investment banker, an entertainer, a dancer or whatever job that there is a demand for it and well other players pay for it ... or just an adventurer and make your fortune by hunting. You can become a bounty hunter and hunt other players.
  

 

And that's the ideal sandbox definition.

 

 

Opposite of sandbox: Themepark

 

Themepark MMO is referred to a type of MMOs that guide player through some specific paths through having visible or invisible walls.

 

WoW (World of Warcraft) is considered to be more of a themepark MMORPG because as a player you are limited to the class that you have chosen and you can not change it freely. Players can not travel to anywhere you want in the world and explore the world freely. There are no visible walls in the game but if they travel to the areas that they are not supposed to, they most probably will be killed by high level monsters. Players should follow the story through quests to advance and the game doesn't give the players the freedom to choose their own path.

 

It's not all bad though. Many players prefer a themepark MMORPG over a sandbox one. That's why so many MMORPGs exist. Isn't it?

[BlueFromMoon]

/shrug

 

Well more power to ya. Personally, I've seen the screenshots. Gotta say, it looks alot like RIFT. I hope Fallout Online gets a better look. I can't be scavenging the wasteland looking like a caricature of the Lone Wanderer.

 

Dont know what you say is true but Blizzard Conference Call earlier this year they said basically no to FPS rumors.

[Goretzu]

I do believe most of you have sandbox confused. Yes, there is tons of player choice, but the players still have to play by the rules that the developers (god in the game universe) have created.

 

It's not all bad though. Many players prefer a themepark MMORPG over a sandbox one. That's why so many MMORPGs exist. Isn't it?

 

Yeah, there's no such thing as a true sandbox game, everything has limitations.

There's no such thing as a themepark game either really (apart from rollercoaster tycoon ).

 

 

Which is why it's probably better to talk about "sandbox features" (or "sandy features") rather than as a black & white Sandbox or Themepark choice.

 

SWTOR could certain have (and could certainly stand to have) a lot of sandy features added.

[Monave]

I do believe most of you have sandbox confused.

 

EvE anyone?

[Niennnasil]

EvE anyone?

 

Didn't you read rest of post Monave? And EvE is sadly not pure or half sandbox. But we can say game with some sandbox elements.

 

I do believe most of you have sandbox confused. Yes, there is tons of player choice, but the players still have to play by the rules that the developers (god in the game universe) have created.

 

Take

for instance, for best example, Wurm Online defines itself as "limitless opportunity and freedom, where the actions of each player can make a lasting difference.". I find it 100x more challenging than any of the Themepark MMOs I've played. Even something as simple as preparing land for building a house can be an endeavor.

 

 

Lets say there were no limits for development or money making out of a sandbox MMO so an ideal sandbox MMORPG would probably feature the following:

 

 

 

• You will be able to change the world or spaces around you and all other players will be able to see the changes. For example you can build houses and decorate it any way you want. You can modify the terrain; dig, raise, flatten and sculpt the land around you.
   
   
  
• You can change the look and appearance of your avatar any way you want and any time you want during the game play. You can change it without a limit.
   
   
  
• You can define the characteristics of your character and change it during the game. You are not limited to some classes, ...
   
   
  
• You can travel anywhere in the world and explore any area. Some developer designed walls do not limit you to some pre-defined spaces.
   
   
  
• You can choose to be friend or enemies of anyone. You can choose any kind of behavior. Well this selections obviously have consequences since you may make more permanent friends or enemies by some of your decisions. You may be haunted by some factions, guilds,... because you chose to be enemy of one of their members. You can swear you didn't know but it doesn't mean they will accept it.
   
   
  
• You have a saying on the economy. The economy as a whole is player driven and supply and demand of any item by all of the players price the items and not the fixed prices set by developers.
   
   
  
• You can craft many things out of many things. You can craft unique items and sell them for your price to other thirsty players.
   
   
  
• There are no developer based quests and stories in the game. The stories are shaped by the players and you don't have to follow some specific stories to gain experience.
   
   
  
• You can interact with the environment the way you want. You can train, tame or mount many different creatures and can cook or make and eat many things out of many things.
   
   
  
• You can battle any way you want. You can learn or form many fighting skills. You can name your invented skills and teach them to others. They can be magic, range, melee,... or a combination.
   
   
  
• You can make a living of any job. You can be a thief, a burglar, a beggar, a scammer, investment banker, an entertainer, a dancer or whatever job that there is a demand for it and well other players pay for it ... or just an adventurer and make your fortune by hunting. You can become a bounty hunter and hunt other players.
  

 

And that's the ideal sandbox definition.

 

 

Opposite of sandbox: Themepark

 

Themepark MMO is referred to a type of MMOs that guide player through some specific paths through having visible or invisible walls.

 

WoW (World of Warcraft) is considered to be more of a themepark MMORPG because as a player you are limited to the class that you have chosen and you can not change it freely. Players can not travel to anywhere you want in the world and explore the world freely. There are no visible walls in the game but if they travel to the areas that they are not supposed to, they most probably will be killed by high level monsters. Players should follow the story through quests to advance and the game doesn't give the players the freedom to choose their own path.

 

It's not all bad though. Many players prefer a themepark MMORPG over a sandbox one. That's why so many MMORPGs exist. Isn't it?

 

 

 

 

Yeah, there's no such thing as a true sandbox game, everything has limitations.

There's no such thing as a themepark game either really (apart from rollercoaster tycoon ).

 

 

Which is why it's probably better to talk about "sandbox features" (or "sandy features") rather than as a black & white Sandbox or Themepark choice.

 

SWTOR could certain have (and could certainly stand to have) a lot of sandy features added.

 

Agree with you Goretzu.. so it's why i listed sandbox features.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Niennnasil

[NasherUK]

TLDR version: WoW doesn't have sandboxes because it doesn't want you to feel too important. SWTOR wants you to feel center stage, so it should have some sandbox elements.

.

 

I disagree with that. Wow has many quests that make you "important". But the story is so boring and meaningless that no one bothered to read the quest, didn't care, or dont remember

Edited May 14, 2012 by NasherUK

[Jydradi]

Excellent post but I'm just quoting the part I have commentary on.

 

I am very curious about your idea and why it is THREE planets. Give me one guess...

 

Is it one planet for each side and a third one to fight over? That would be awesome!

 

Basically yes, but a little more complicated.

 

The complete idea will be in one of my infamous (back in the SWG days) game concept posts, complete with links to simple graphics to illustrate concepts and whatnot.

 

The basic run down of the idea is this: The three planets would be frontier, or colonial planets, faction loyal, but not aligned. The first two planets are faction aligned, in that only Imperials can go to one, only Republics can get to the other, so no one has to participate in the fighting if they don't want to.

 

The third planet will be divided north/south east/west between 4 different 'factions' (Republic, Empire, Hutt and Fringer) and the closer your lad is to the middle of the map, the less likely your it will have NPC military to help protect it (your land could be invaded by other players, as well as having the town be able to enter 'siege mode' where your it is being invaded by NPCs, kind of like a Flash Point where you're defending your land with your guild/pug). It's important to note that in Hutt and Fringer space it doesn't matter if you're Imp or Pub, so an Imp player could settle in the Imp, Hutt or Fringer zones.

 

In the very center would be a dynamic contested faction zone where players could build defensive structures like turrets, bunkers etc, but those structures would be able to be destroyed as well (I have a number of ways in mind players would purchase these without getting to overblown and automatically being decided by whoever has the most credits) This would also allow for some decent semi-open world PvP in the central/contested zones where players could attack eachother's structures as well. There could also be a system in which specific sections could be conquered by the opposing faction, but that has some kinks to work out yet in my mind.

 

As for the planets themselves, they would be as big as Hoth, or Voss, but more open and available to be traveled. The planet would be divided into sectors with a signpost or other terrain feature in the center of each sector that a player could click on to enter (and claim a phase of such to settle in) an enclosed, phased section that had that identical section's terrain features in which to build their own little section of space. They could then put up pre fabricated buildings and terrain features (like trees, skeletons, NPS animals) and whatnot by buying them from a popup menu, then placing them around. And of course you could decorate the insides of buildings with more artifacts from another pop up menu. That way each section of land isn't first come first serve.

 

The owner (or guild leader) would set up permissions on the gateway to their land to make it public, private, open to people on their friend list, whatever. They would also set the encounter level of their land that way it could spawn enemies to fight, like the old mission terminals in SWG, providing an alternate to leveling that doesn't require additional voices (Hey, grinding isn't my thing, but some people like it)

Edited May 14, 2012 by Jydradi

[Jydradi]

I disagree with that. Wow has many quests that make you "important". But the story is so boring and meaningless that no one bothered to read the quest, didn't care, or dont remember

 

Fair enough, but that importance is on a small scale.

 

You're important to little Tammy Redpath, you find her doll for her, but when it comes time to fight Arthas, you need to get rescued by a pet NPC.

[Goretzu]

Basically yes, but a little more complicated.

 

The complete idea will be in one of my infamous (back in the SWG days) game concept posts, complete with links to simple graphics to illustrate concepts and whatnot.

 

The basic run down of the idea is this: The three planets would be frontier, or colonial planets, faction loyal, but not aligned. The first two planets are faction aligned, in that only Imperials can go to one, only Republics can get to the other, so no one has to participate in the fighting if they don't want to. The third planet will be divided north/south east/west between 4 different 'factions' (Republic, Empire, Hutt and Fringer) and the closer you get to the middle, the less likely you are to find NPC military to help protect your village (which could be invaded by other players, as well as having the town be able to enter 'siege mode' where your land is being invaded by NPCs, kind of like a Flash Point where you're defending your land with your guild/pug. it's important to note that in Hutt and Fringer space it doesn't matter if you're Imp or Pub, so an Imp player could settle in the Imp, Hutt or Fringer zones.

 

As for the planets themselves, they would be as big as Hoth, or Voss, but more open and available to be traveled. The planet would be divided into sectors with a signpost or other terrain feature in the center of each sector that a player could click on to enter an enclosed, phased section that had that identical section's terrain features in which to build their own little section of space. They could then put up pre fabricated buildings and terrain features (like trees, skeletons, NPS animals) and whatnot by buying them from a popup menu, then placing them around. And of course you could decorate the insides of buildings with more artifacts from another pop up menu.

 

The owner (or guild leader) would set up permissions on the gateway to their land to make it public, private, open to people on their friend list, whatever. They would also set the encounter level of their land that way it could spawn enemies to fight, like the old mission terminals in SWG, providing an alternate to leveling that doesn't require additional voices (Hey, grinding isn't my thing, but some people like it)

 

 

Something like that would be great.

 

Also something fairly simple like copying Warhammer Online and adding effectively one of their 3 part RvR basins would also work for adding RvR to SWTOR (just a push-pull fight with some sort of winning bonuse and maybe a 1.3.6 type balance system so factions that won 3 times in a row would find it incredibly difficult to win a 4th time in a row and the underdog faction would find it easy to win one).

 

You're absolutely right about Guilds too though, when they removed the ability for Guilds to claim keeps in Warhammer Online they took a lot of the motivation and pride from the fight. Having guilds (and guild pride) involved in RvR is usually a good thing.

[Jydradi]

 

 

Something like that would be great.

 

Also something fairly simple like copying Warhammer Online and adding effectively one of their 3 part RvR basins would also work for adding RvR to SWTOR (just a push-pull fight with some sort of winning bonuse and maybe a 1.3.6 type balance system so factions that won 3 times in a row would find it incredibly difficult to win a 4th time in a row and the underdog faction would find it easy to win one).

 

You're absolutely right about Guilds too though, when they removed the ability for Guilds to claim keeps in Warhammer Online they took a lot of the motivation and pride from the fight. Having guilds (and guild pride) involved in RvR is usually a good thing.

 

Agreed.

 

I updated my post with a little more info and clarity, if you'd like to re read it.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Jydradi

[Goretzu]

Agreed.

 

I updated my post with a little more info and clarity, if you'd like to re read it.

 

Yeah it sounds very good, I especially like the idea of buildable stuff. Star Wars as an IP has potential for some truely great RvR.

 

Unfortuantely it's getting the potential to reality that seems to be the problem for Devs.

[Jalez]

Guild Wars 2 Beta Stress Test today @ 2PM Eastern too 9PM Eastern

 

I like what GW2 is doing, it is a nice mixture of Sandbox and Theme Park

 

Then for PvP they have pretty much copied Dark Age of Camelot RvR ( NOT Warhammer RvR thank gawd) and it is addicting as hell, first beta weekend people wouldnt get up from their computers since WvWvW DAoC style RvR had them hooked

 

GW2 also has SPvP matches for all you "10 minute Warzone capture the flag people"....but WvWvW is the main attraction, true endgame PvP that sooooo many MMOs lack today

 

Pretty much the "post-WoW" MMORPG genre has been awful, now games like GW 2 and ESO are taking MMOs "back to their roots" in a modern way....and thank gawd for that:)

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

Sandparkthemebox is the way to go! Do it Bioware! 1.4 !

[OrionSol]

I have seen many posts regarding this subject and the pros and cons of each but I would like to get a feel for what the players really want.

MMO developers seem to think that sandbox is now a niche area and theme park is the way to go.

Many sandbox MMOs are still going strong even though they have changed their subscription model in an effort to retain their existing players and entice new players to give their game a go.

Lord of the Rings Online, Age of Conan, World of Warcraft, and, in my opinion, the daddy of them all, Eve Online is still going strong. I have returned to Eve twice over the years and recall the newbie chat channel and the opening channel after that is full of constant chatter which is what gives it its name Massive that it deserves.

And of course, take a look at the fourth coming Guild Wars 2. The devs have decided to change course from the famously heavily instanced original Guild Wars, although extremely popular, to a more open sandbox world, going completely against the grain of what the gaming masses are supposed to enjoy the most.

It is a matter of opinion but for me, when GW2 is released, that is where I will be going because I believe that heavy instancing takes the massively out of the game thus demeaning its goal.

Having said that, I still dont know what the majority of the MMO fraternity think and want.

So maybe we can find out from this post whether or not the devs took the right direction and so will keep their players for many years to come or will they leave en masse to return to the sandbox idea that the MMO genre originally embraced?

 

 

It doesn't need to be VS.

 

Make the game BOTH and you win!

[Lunga]

There's nothing stopping BW from eventually creating a 3rd faction (Independent Faction: share the BH and Smuggler classes already in-game, add 1 new class to Rep/Indie + 1 new to Imp/Indie). That would give you 5 classes Rep, 5 classes Imp, 4 classes Indie. You can still use the same starter worlds, maybe add a new one for the 2 new classes, and add more content for leveling.

 

I've been saying this all week, people are expecting things of new mmos that have never been demanded from mmos of the past. You CANNOT match the features and content of a game that's been out 7-10 years. GW2 and TSW will get ripped to shreds within 3 months, same as SWTOR is now, same as Tera and Aion... Etc.

 

I look at these games in a "potential" POV. SWTOR has alot of potential to be a really deep game, given the proper amount of development time. I don't think it's out of the question for BW to add more sandbox elements to the game in the future. People need to exercise a bit of patience, or the whole mmorpg genre is doomed.

[-Backdraft-]

World wide in all ways.... a world wide game has sooo much more to offer then an "closed" map. This is the biggest problem and biggest dissapointment for me when i first logged on this game. I thought all new MMO were disigned to be world wide but I guess not SWG had it, WoW had it and many more MMO's, wish this one had it aswell. I enjoy the game alot but still think something is missing and this is prob one of the biggest things

[mattgyver]

Titan is the future, as other developers just keep failing. I think Elder Scroll Online has a last chance before Titan takes over, if anything Elder Scroll could do it. This genre is just too deep for their small brains.

 

 

TOO NARROW MINDED! FREE YOUR MIND!

 

Nobody knows anything about Titan yet, including you. It's a unicorn at this point.

[mattgyver]

There's nothing stopping BW from eventually creating a 3rd faction (Independent Faction: share the BH and Smuggler classes already in-game, add 1 new class to Rep/Indie + 1 new to Imp/Indie). That would give you 5 classes Rep, 5 classes Imp, 4 classes Indie. You can still use the same starter worlds, maybe add a new one for the 2 new classes, and add more content for leveling.

 

I've been saying this all week, people are expecting things of new mmos that have never been demanded from mmos of the past. You CANNOT match the features and content of a game that's been out 7-10 years. GW2 and TSW will get ripped to shreds within 3 months, same as SWTOR is now, same as Tera and Aion... Etc.

 

I look at these games in a "potential" POV. SWTOR has alot of potential to be a really deep game, given the proper amount of development time. I don't think it's out of the question for BW to add more sandbox elements to the game in the future. People need to exercise a bit of patience, or the whole mmorpg genre is doomed.

 

It would be better if the 3rd faction was simply a rogue faction and not something with a logo. Just put the Hutts, Black Sun, and whoever else in a faction that you can Join by betraying/defecting to.