Cordelia Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. You added 2 too many zeros. You've added a few too many LOL's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) Even though I wouldn't use it they could easily add a sandbox "planet". That would be the best solution so satisfy the 200,000 or so of the playerbase that want to see something like SWG. But don't bet on it. That tiny, cranky, unreliable slice of the MMO-pie can go play Eve, Second Life, Minecraft or Spore. The accountants that drive successful MMORPG company profits realize how fickle and unprofitable that niche market is and leave them to their niche games. In an effort to channel one of my favorite bits from all of Star Wars: Blizzard doesn't like you. Bioware doesn't like you either! You just watch yourself. We're wanted games. I have millions of subscribers on twelve systems. Edited February 18, 2012 by SnoggyMack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordelia Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 That tiny, cranky, unreliable slice of the MMO-pie can go play Eve, Second Life, Minecraft or Spore. The accountants that drive successful MMORPG company profits realize how fickle and unprofitable that niche market is and leave them to their niche games. How many of the last few years of WoW style MMO's are making huge profits then? Practically all have gone F2P anyway. It's time for a change, no more bloody thempark MMO's, the genre is so stale because of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 How many of the last few years of WoW style MMO's are making huge profits then? Practically all have gone F2P anyway. It's time for a change, no more bloody thempark MMO's, the genre is so stale because of them. Yet here you are. On the forums of a theme park MMO. Fancy that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordelia Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Yet here you are. On the forums of a theme park MMO. Fancy that. Yeah, beacuse this is fine if you treat it as a single player game with multiplayer options. But it has no longevity, without sandbox elements people are becoming bored very quickly, you only need to scan many of the threads on this very forum to see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aricus Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) Whats wrong with a space theme? Works tremendously well for EvE...fantasy has been done to death, arent you bored of it by now?? I never get bored of Fantasy theme but that's just me. Edited February 18, 2012 by Aricus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Yeah, beacuse this is fine if you treat it as a single player game with multiplayer options. But it has no longevity, without sandbox elements people are becoming bored very quickly, you only need to scan many of the threads on this very forum to see that. No longevity? How much time were you hoping to eke out of a video game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zolexus Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) I have seen many posts regarding this subject and the pros and cons of each but I would like to get a feel for what the players really want. MMO developers seem to think that sandbox is now a niche area and theme park is the way to go. Many sandbox MMOs are still going strong even though they have changed their subscription model in an effort to retain their existing players and entice new players to give their game a go. Lord of the Rings Online, Age of Conan, World of Warcraft, and, in my opinion, the daddy of them all, Eve Online is still going strong. I have returned to Eve twice over the years and recall the newbie chat channel and the opening channel after that is full of constant chatter which is what gives it its name Massive that it deserves. And of course, take a look at the fourth coming Guild Wars 2. The devs have decided to change course from the famously heavily instanced original Guild Wars, although extremely popular, to a more open sandbox world, going completely against the grain of what the gaming masses are supposed to enjoy the most. It is a matter of opinion but for me, when GW2 is released, that is where I will be going because I believe that heavy instancing takes the massively out of the game thus demeaning its goal. Having said that, I still dont know what the majority of the MMO fraternity think and want. So maybe we can find out from this post whether or not the devs took the right direction and so will keep their players for many years to come or will they leave en masse to return to the sandbox idea that the MMO genre originally embraced? Well I started playing MMOs for one reason and one reason only: I am willing to pay for an MMO only because it's justified that an MMO has a massive world with massive people in it that do things together. Thousands of people on one server etc. Swtor puts people in instances, EVEN on the planets. so... of course I'd still be willing to pay for a theme park kind of game but only if you arrive at the entrance, you go through the "jungle" theme with lots of cool jungle animations and then arrive at a big jungle rollercoaster. After some time a new attraction is added and the theme is improved, after more time a whole new theme gets added with new attractions and more stuff in between the attractions to keep busy. I do not like going to the entrance, being "warped" immediately to the attraction, going on it and afterwards immediately warped back to entrance. A theme park is only succesful because of its atmosphere and the desire you get leading up to going to an attraction. Also after riding it 5 times to stroll around in the same theme and enjoy the feeling to then walk to the desert theme and feel you're in for a ride under the hills. Edited February 18, 2012 by Zolexus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 How many of the last few years of WoW style MMO's are making huge profits then? Practically all have gone F2P anyway. It's time for a change, no more bloody thempark MMO's, the genre is so stale because of them. thats not because they are themepark MMOs that is more due to them being unfinished and people getting sick of the 14.99 business model. Now that they are F2P those same themepark MMOs are raking in the cash. Where on the other side Sandbox MMOs may have a more stable player base but their player base is MUCH MUCH SMALLER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GavNash Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 A Star Wars game needs to be a sandbox, period. And this game gives the term theme park kind of a bad rap. Comparing WoW's themepark to SWTOR's is like comparing Disneyworld to those traveling carnivals that carry their rides on the backs of semis and set up in parking lots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VorpalK Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 SWG ran for 9 years. UO is currently still running after nearly 15 years. Both those games however had limits, rails if you will, as does EvE. Asheron's Call is still running, and adding content monthly , after 14+ years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zolexus Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) Asheron's Call is still running, and adding content monthly , after 14+ years. Seriously AC still running? Might dig that one back up then thought it was dead. Great sandbox game that Edited February 18, 2012 by Zolexus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregordunbar Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Anyone that designs a game to be either is being daft IMO. And decent game should be both. This about covers it. A game should provide a mix of all types of content. This game, is a massive blackhole once the main story is done. Some of the stories are great, typical of Bioware...single player games. As an MMORPG though this game has no real lasting ability due to missing so many types of content, even beyond the sandbox style...roleplayers, they dont seem to exist in the eyes of Bioware...seriously the game has only a few "costumes" and to get to be able to use them you have to...group? Thats like rewarding PvP items to people selling items on the GTN. They put no work into getting people to want to just hang out and do things outside of quests and thats why this game has no real community. Good luck trying to fix that aspect of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregordunbar Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Seriously AC still running? Might dig that one back up then thought it was dead. Great sandbox game that Yep, they just had a big in game event for it. I believe they have a free trial going. Anyway, this game will go the route of Conan in a year or so unless Bioware has an expac already almost done...it will need it to plug the massive blackhole it has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) Yeah, beacuse this is fine if you treat it as a single player game with multiplayer options. But it has no longevity, without sandbox elements people are becoming bored very quickly, you only need to scan many of the threads on this very forum to see that. Making claims with 0 proof is bad form. There is no proof that themepark MMOs are the losing bet. Rift and Warhammer just didn't have the pull that WoW does. It doesn't mean themepark is dead. WoW still has 10.2 millions subs. This game currently has around 1.7 Mil. Themepark is dead huh? If sandbox was the way to go, SWG and Eve would each have millions of players. As it turns out SWG was cancelled and Eve holds the rest of the niche market. Edited February 18, 2012 by Arkerus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisar Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) I want to know when "theme park" became a valid way to make an MMO. The very nature of MMOs means it is suppose to be like a real world. I'm not sure why someone would design an MMO to fail by using a theme park system but I will definitely try to make sure any future games I play are NOT built on a "theme park" system. I want to live in a virtual world, not ride a rollercoaster. Thanks for trying though. Edited February 18, 2012 by Aisar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregordunbar Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Making claims with 0 proof is bad form. There is no proof that themepark MMOs are the losing bet. Rift and Warhammer just didn't have the pull that WoW does. It doesn't mean themepark is dead. WoW still has 10.2 millions subs. This game currently has around 1.7 Mil. Themepark is dead huh? If sandbox was the way to go, SWG and Eve would each have millions of players. As it turns out SWG was cancelled and Eve holds the rest of the niche market. Nope. Sandbox = open world, SWG and EvE were Sandbox extremes and tried to change what the term meant. Go do a search for the term, UO, EQ, AC were sandbox games, DAoC and WoW type games were sandbox with themepark elements. This game is almost pure themepark. And BTW...I HATED SWG because of its attempt at pure sandbox with no real content, it meant the entire game was reliant on the players...and the thing I dislike most about this game is the LACK of community do to nothing in the game to actually bring players together outside of forced grouping...hows that for messed up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 A Star Wars game needs to be a sandbox, period. Galaxies is dead. Let it go man. Move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seiryuu Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 And BTW...I HATED SWG because of its attempt at pure sandbox with no real content, it meant the entire game was reliant on the players...and the thing I dislike most about this game is the LACK of community do to nothing in the game to actually bring players together outside of forced grouping...hows that for messed up! It's ironic, really. You disliked the reliance on other players in SWG so much that it made you HATE it. Not just hate. But HATE. No there's a game where you don't need to rely on anyone... and you're biggest issue is that there's no real community... Of course there isn't... there's no need for one. (small note: this might be exactly your point, I'm not completely sure I understand you correctly ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amdarius Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Good post. Im actually at the point where Im ready for some sandbox mmo action. Im getting pretty tired of the themepark design...this is probably the last themepark game Ill go for, and that being said, I still hold out hope they will incorporate some sandbox stuff, especially crafting side since SWG did it so well. To that end, Ive been playing EvE lately and loving it. I love games with depth and sizeable learning curves, unfortunatley, game developers dont have the balls to make such mmos anymore because everyone wants easy, faceroll content...look how easy WoW is these days, theres a reason for that. So yeah, sign me up for sandbox...you hear that, game developers? I just signed up for Eve last night and am trying to figure out what I'm doing. Love sandbox games! I'll resubscribe to SWTOR if they ever get around to making it more sandbox and severely revamp the crafting/economy system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Asheron's Call is still running, and adding content monthly , after 14+ years. It's still going? Wow didn't realise that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 thats not because they are themepark MMOs that is more due to them being unfinished and people getting sick of the 14.99 business model. Now that they are F2P those same themepark MMOs are raking in the cash. Where on the other side Sandbox MMOs may have a more stable player base but their player base is MUCH MUCH SMALLER. LOTRO was not "unfinished" when it went F2P (don't think DDO was either really). It was one of the most complete MMORPGs around. It was also one of the few (post-WoW) that had held and kept its peak subs after launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 This about covers it. A game should provide a mix of all types of content. This game, is a massive blackhole once the main story is done. Some of the stories are great, typical of Bioware...single player games. As an MMORPG though this game has no real lasting ability due to missing so many types of content, even beyond the sandbox style...roleplayers, they dont seem to exist in the eyes of Bioware...seriously the game has only a few "costumes" and to get to be able to use them you have to...group? Thats like rewarding PvP items to people selling items on the GTN. They put no work into getting people to want to just hang out and do things outside of quests and thats why this game has no real community. Good luck trying to fix that aspect of the game. The main storys are great. Now if they had decent RvR (there's no real reason they can't have WAR grade RvR really), and had some "sandy" features with crafting and levelling (they have a decent frame work with the current crafting and AA/legacy system) things could be much better. Throw in open space combat (PvE and PvP/RvR) and SWTOR becomes something much greater than the sum of its parts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallman Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I always enjoyed sandbox because of the freedom to travel where I want. But what I really do dislike is the use of instances. I expect to see the people that are in the same area as me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenhurst Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 I always enjoyed sandbox because of the freedom to travel where I want. But what I really do dislike is the use of instances. I expect to see the people that are in the same area as me. according to the polls, the majority prefers sandbox games or at least the use of sandbox elements in a sandbox/themepark hybrid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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