Sidious vs Vitiate

[Beniboybling]

No, at everything. Lightsaber skill, tactical ability, Force ability. All that good stuff.

He also has a better dress sense.

[Aurbere]

He also has a better dress sense.

 

It would take a long time to point out how many ways Sidious is better than Vitiate.

[Kaedusz]

It would take a long time to point out how many ways Sidious is better than Vitiate.

Nah, it's almost certain he is just better than him at pretending.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Kaedusz

[frankiejo]

I don't know jack **** about EU but I've yet to hear one thing Sidious did that demonstrated more power then Vitiate's accomplishments. When argument can be made for Sidious being more powerful that's based solely on feats of power? And not "George Lucas said so" because frankly I don't care what George Lucas thinks, he's a hack writer and an even worse director.

[Kaedusz]

I've yet to hear one thing Sidious did that demonstrated more power then Vitiate's accomplishments. When argument can be made for Sidious being more powerful that's based solely on feats of power? And not "George Lucas said so" because frankly I don't care what George Lucas thinks, he's a hack writer and an even worse director.

 

inb4 platitudes related to a worm hole or the Rule of Two

Edited March 27, 2014 by Kaedusz

[Aurbere]

I don't know jack **** about EU but I've yet to hear one thing Sidious did that demonstrated more power then Vitiate's accomplishments. When argument can be made for Sidious being more powerful that's based solely on feats of power? And not "George Lucas said so" because frankly I don't care what George Lucas thinks, he's a hack writer and an even worse director.

 

He destroyed an entire fleet and a nigh-indestructible warship with his Force Storms.

 

Good enough?

[Aurbere]

inb4 platitudes related to a worm hole or the Rule of Two

 

Yeah, you know you love it, though.

[Beniboybling]

I don't know jack **** about EU but I've yet to hear one thing Sidious did that demonstrated more power then Vitiate's accomplishments. When argument can be made for Sidious being more powerful that's based solely on feats of power? And not "George Lucas said so" because frankly I don't care what George Lucas thinks, he's a hack writer and an even worse director.

If you have the time to read, here is all the evidence. Enjoy.

[frankiejo]

He destroyed an entire fleet and a nigh-indestructible warship with his Force Storms.

 

Good enough?

 

Yes that's probably more powerful then anything I've heard of vitiate doing, but I'm still curious why more people haven't used that fact to predicate their arguments.

[Aurbere]

Yes that's probably more powerful then anything I've heard of vitiate doing, but I'm still curious why more people haven't used that fact to predicate their arguments.

 

I have no idea really, but it's probably because that comes from a set of comics that people don't like.

[Kaedusz]

If you have the time to read, here is all the evidence. Enjoy.

 

Nope, read this instead.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=651536&highlight=essential+read

Edited March 27, 2014 by Kaedusz

[Beniboybling]

Nope, read this instead.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=651536&highlight=essential+read

Which doesn't contradict mine and Aurbere's analysis in anyway.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Why.....why?....Sidious' can just blitz Vitiate and kill him before the latter can even react to *** just happened. Edited March 27, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[wrnfkbsdgfbdsgb]

Again Sidious isn't that good. I did not see or hear of his lightning turning people into ash, unlike Darth Nyriss, or Vitiate. There is no technique Palpatine could use that Vitiate doesnt know. The same can't be said for Palpatine. Also all these arguments about Palpatine's wormhole from Dark Empire, are negligible. That only happened ONCE, he never repeated it afterwards and never did it before. Singular instances can not be used in a debate about generalities. If you want to get into singular moments of power then Luke Skywalker and Jacen Solo outclass everyone, as they achieved complete oneness with the force, those two having been the only people to do so that I heard about. Yet most will say Jacen Solo was weak. So, sure Palpatine may have had more potential power than Vitiate, but par on par with application and skill, Sidious falls short.

[wrnfkbsdgfbdsgb]

Also let's not forget Palpatine managed to get himself kidnapped as Emperor, by Grand Admiral Zaarin. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.

[Beniboybling]

Again Sidious isn't that good. I did not see or hear of his lightning turning people into ash, unlike Darth Nyriss, or Vitiate. There is no technique Palpatine could use that Vitiate doesnt know. The same can't be said for Palpatine. Also all these arguments about Palpatine's wormhole from Dark Empire, are negligible. That only happened ONCE, he never repeated it afterwards and never did it before. Singular instances can not be used in a debate about generalities. If you want to get into singular moments of power then Luke Skywalker and Jacen Solo outclass everyone, as they achieved complete oneness with the force, those two having been the only people to do so that I heard about. Yet most will say Jacen Solo was weak. So, sure Palpatine may have had more potential power than Vitiate, but par on par with application and skill, Sidious falls short.

Your lack of knowledge on Sidious' abilities is hardly a platform for argument:

 

 

• Sidious has turned multiple subjects into ash, and then some.
   
   
  
• He also mastered nearly all known force powers, unknown powers and created his own. I find it unlikely that there is anything the Vitiate can do that he cannot. And the Sith Emperor has never used the Force Storm.
   
   
  
• Sidious used the Force Storm on multiple occasions and could conjure immediately and without assistance

 

Regardless a singular expression of power is just as legitimate as multiple expressions of the same power. I'm sorry but this argument is both absurd and arbitrary, are we to use this to negate almost all of the Sith Emperor's abilities then? Because every iteration of Force Power he has used he has only done so once, you can certainly discount the Nathema ritual. An expression of power is an expression of power, and is indicative of Force strength. End of.

 

Oneness is a different matter entirely, it is a state of being achieved by many Force Users aside from Luke Skywalker and Jacen Solo in which one's connection to the Force is suddenly strengthened as the Force adopts you as something of a "vessel." Given that feats performed in this state are of course not indicative directly of one's power given that they are not in a natural state. Nonetheless the more powerful the Force User, the stronger the Oneness.

 

Anyway, clearly your knowledge on Sidious' abilities is somewhat lacking else you would not make such rash statements with such conviction, I'd advise you read this thread for a full low down as well as a comparison

 

P.S. Jacen Solo is not considered "weak" at all - not only is he the grandson of the Chosen One but as a Sith Lord his strength in the Force makes him one of the most powerful Force Users ever, even stronger that the Sith Emperor.

 

P.P.S Sidious pretty much achieved the fullest extent of his potential.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Kaedusz]

How can Jacen Solo be stronger than the Emperor?I mean where do you get this stuff from?When i enter this forum section it's like i enter a universe with opposite polarity ,where everything is terribly wrong and upside down, in which a small group of people are all dextro-protein.Srsly.

 

Did he made the air around him vibrate with power,visibly to the naked eye?Did he made people insane and terrified by looking them in the eye?Can he turn several jedi masters to the dark side,just like that.

 

Was he extremely powerful at the age of 6.

Did he teach himself everything he knew about the force.

Could they kill a Sith Lord at the age of 12.

Sidious killed his parrents much later, and subconsciously.

Vitiate was acting like a proper full fledged sith lord at the age of 12, by himself without any instruction.

Could anyone in the entire SW universe be at several places at the same with his consciousness and will,

spreaded around,several places and inhabiting several vessels.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Kaedusz

[Beniboybling]

How can Jacen Solo be stronger than the Emperor?I mean where do you get this stuff from?When i enter this forum section it's like i enter a universe with opposite polarity ,where everything is terribly wrong and upside down, in which a small group of people are all dextro-protein.

 

Did he made the air around him vibrate with power,visibly to the naked eye?Did he made people insane and terrified by looking them in the eye?Can he turn several jedi masters to the dark side,just like that.

 

Was he extremely powerful at the age of 6.

Did he teach himself everything he knew about the force.

Could they kill a Sith Lord at the age of 12.

 

Even Sidious can't do these things.

Firstly I said "as a Sith Lord" in which his powers increased dramatically.

 

If you want to see my comprehensive comparison, its all here.

 

And yes he was actually very powerful at a young age. At the age of three he fought of three battle hydra's conjured up by Exar Kun. Ultimately though comparing Force Users before they reached their full potential is dangerous as different Force Users have different learning curves, the difference between Jedi and Sith is vast to say the least.

 

The rest is covered in the analysis. Enjoy.

[Kaedusz]

If you think i am going to read a wall of text that crits for more than 9k,reading some guy vomit away his understanding of things,pretending to be an encyclopedia,you are as deluded as the Vitiate vs Caedus thing. Edited March 31, 2014 by Kaedusz

[Beniboybling]

If you think i am going to read a wall of text that crits for more than 9k,reading some guy vomit away his understanding of things,pretending to be an encyclopedia,you are as deluded as the Vitiate vs Caedus thing.

Well look at that, its my lucky day. Bye now.

[StarSquirrel]

If you think i am going to read a wall of text that crits for more than 9k,reading some guy vomit away his understanding of things,pretending to be an encyclopedia,you are as deluded as the Vitiate vs Caedus thing.

 

Beni uses encyclopedias in his arguments, if you could read you'd know that. It makes sense that what he says may come out like it. He also understands things far better than you apparently, you're deluding yourself if you think Vitiate is somehow superior to Caedus.

 

Would you give it up already, you don't have to agree but you have been beaten here.

 

Btw, you're dislike for the Post-RotJ EU is well noted but I will say if you've read a significant amount of it you should know exactly why Jacen/Caedus could beat Vitiate. As is, you're either bias or you lack any knowledge on the subject and it really isn't in anyone's interest to debate someone so clueless.

[Kaedusz]

I mean where do you get this stuff from?When i enter this forum section it's like i enter a universe with opposite polarity ,where everything is terribly wrong and upside down, in which a small group of people are all dextro-protein.Srsly.

 

Right on the spot.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Kaedusz

[Beniboybling]

As is, you're either bias or you lack any knowledge on the subject and it really isn't in anyone's interest to debate someone so clueless.

You might want to add insane to that list, given that he is now talking to himself...

[Kaedusz]

it really isn't in a fossil's interest to debate someone that doesn't subscribe to SW platitudes that were valid 15-20 years ago.

Fixed.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Kaedusz

[Aurbere]

Let's see if we can settle this debate.

 

Lightsaber Skill:

 

Vitiate:

 

Vitiate displays little skill in lightsaber combat.

 

Darth Sidious:

 

A Sith swordmaster, Sidious was a master of all seven lightsaber Forms, and could switch between them ambidextrously. His preferred Form was Juyo, the most aggressive fighting style based on controlled unpredictability fueled by emotion- the Sith style, as Sidious refers to it.

 

Sidious was primarily a speed duelist, letting the Force flow through him to attack his opponents with blistering speed. Through this, Sidious was able to cut down three of the most celebrated Jedi swordmasters of his time in mere seconds, and hold his own against Grand Master Yoda.

 

Edge: The edge is obvious. Vitiate is not a trained duelist, Sidious is. Sidious has proven himself an equal to Jedi whose skills have allowed them to be credited as among the finest duelists of all time. Sidious gets the edge.

 

Physicality:

 

Vitiate:

 

Lord Vitiate's body is ravaged by the Dark Side. Centuries of corruption from the Dark Side has severely damaged his body. The Sith Emperor would use Essence Transfer to move between hosts when his current body is no longer of use, but for the purpose of this match-up, the use of Essence Transfer is barred.

 

Vitiate is not physically capable. He is a scholar who has no intention of actually engaging in single combat, thus he would not push the limits of his physical form, he would not develop his physical abilities to meet the demands of combat.

 

Darth Sidious:

 

After his first death over Endor, Sidious returned to the galaxy by implanting his essence inside clones of himself. These clones were much younger and more physically capable than his older body. As such, they were more than capable of meeting the demands of combat far more ably than his original body. However, massive outbursts of power could cause the clones to quickly deteriorate, forcing him to move his essence into another clone body.

 

Edge: Again, the edge is obvious. Even though Sidious’ clone body can deteriorate with massive outbursts of power, he is still better equipped for the physical demands of combat, and such a weakness would only apply in the later stages of combat and only if Vitiate pushed Sidious that far. Darth Sidious gets the edge.

 

Mentality:

 

Vitiate:

 

Vitiate was devoid of any empathy or any kind of emotion, save one: fear. Despite considering himself a god, the Emperor fears death, and every ambition and action he took after settling his Empire was to avoid death by any means necessary. He has become extremely paranoid because of this.

 

In addition to his fear of death, the Emperor seems to display a degree of tunnel vision. During the duel with Revan and his followers he was primarily focused on Revan and almost oblivious to the actions of Meetra Surik or T3-M4 until their attacks entered his trajectory. Quick reflexes and Meetra Surik’s decision to save Revan were his saving grace during the confrontation, which could very well have ended in his death.

 

Darth Sidious:

 

A master manipulator in all things, Sidious was an expert at manipulating events for his purposes, taking advantage of every opportunity when presented to him. He was a master at moving battles to places where he had the advantage, and using the environment as a weapon.

 

Typical of his manipulating nature, Sidious was a master of the Sith Dun Moch tactic of psychological warfare, employing it in a variety of ways.

 

Edge: Vitiate lacks any real tactical aptitude for combat situations. His only real tactic is to simply blow his opponent away with sheer strength in the Force. On the other hand, Sidious is a master tactician. Darth Sidious gets the edge.

 

Force Abilities:

 

Vitiate:

A Dark Side prodigy at a very young age, Vitiate grew to become an undisputed master of the Dark Side. Through intense study of the ancient secrets of the Dark Side, Vitiate became a master of many incredibly powerful abilities.

 

His primary specialization was in Sith Sorcery, through which he used to conjure powerful rituals. The grandest of them being the one he used on Nathema. Days of effort created a ritual that drained the entire planet of its Force energy and imbued him with incredible power. However, rituals tend to require a great deal of time and effort to perform.

 

He was a master of telekinesis and Force lightning. He was more than able to generate tremendous power with little difficulty, summoning powerful Force Waves and streams of Force lightning with barely a gesture on his part. He was also a master of Sever Force and Force Drain, which he used at a young age.

 

Vitiate was also a master of Force-based mental influence. He was able to use the Force to mentally dominate eight thousand other Sith, though they were willing subjects, and he could conceal the Force presence of his subjects.

 

Darth Sidious:

 

The grim culmination of the Rule of Two, Darth Sidious was the last in a line of Sith Lords that grew more powerful over one thousand years. As such, Sidious was an undisputed master of the Dark Side. Through intense study, Sidious mastered all known Force powers, including those of the Jedi and various Force cults, and could create new powers at his leisure.

 

He was a master of many Sith Magics, using powerful spells to create monsters and disguise his appearance. He has even used Sith Magic to imbue objects and people with the power of the Dark Side. His experiments with Sith Sorcery turned the planet of Byss into one of the most powerful Dark Side nexi in the galaxy. The planet became Sidious’ throneworld and a place Sidious would use to recover his energies through a planet-wide Force Drain.

 

Force-based telepathy was something he also mastered. He has used telepathy to invade the minds of others to communicate with them or telepathically assault them. The former was a communication tool with his Hands, the latter he used against the powerful Sith Lord Darth Vader. He was also a master of the Mind Trick ability, using it to wipe the minds of over a trillion people. His abilities advanced to the Battle Meditation ability, which he used on a galactic scale.

 

His mastery of telekinesis was impressive. He had little difficulty using the Force to rip through an opponent’s Force Barrier and assault them with telekinetic strikes or powerful Force Chokes. He was even able to lift and throw multiple large objects with absolute ease.

 

Force Concealment and Stealth were other abilities that he had mastered. He was able to conceal his presence from the entire Jedi Order and carry on conversations with them without suspicion. He was even able to do this against Grand Master Yoda and Mace Windu, individuals noted for their legendary perceptive abilities.

 

Undoubtedly his most impressive ability was Force lightning, which he mastered to the highest degree. He had little difficulty summoning gouts of lightning to destroy entire armies and destroy his foes. His Force lightning was so powerful that he was able to overpower Mace Windu’s application of Vaapad.

 

He was a master of the Force Maelstrom technique, and took this ability to the next level in the application of the Force Storm, a massive storm of lightning that could annihilate anything. These storms, which he could conjure with a mere thought, were powerful enough to annihilate entire fleets of warships and tear the very fabric of space.

 

Edge: Vitiate has not matched the raw power that Darth Sidious has been able to unleash. Darth Sidious is clearly the more powerful Sith Lord.

 

==================================

 

The outcome of a confrontation between the two is obvious. Sidious outclasses Vitiate on every front. He holds every necessary advantage. What has become obvious to me is that Vitiate is not prepared for pitched combat with a Force user of equal or greater strength and actual lightsaber skill. Against such an opponent, Vitiate has nothing going for him. Sidious is such an opponent.