Sidious vs Vitiate

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This guy again? You can't keep asking questions and then just ignore the answers pal.

 

I've already addressed these points here and you have yet to respond. And if you took the time to read that thread you'd also know that Sidious' feats in Force Lightning surpass all over Sith including the Sith Emperor.

 

For the record, in all of Sidious' engagements with other Force users he has always engaged in lightsaber combat first and foremost, nor did he neglect this field, he was a master of all seven forms of lightsaber combat.

 

Please, either educate yourself on the topic, or be on your way.

 

His lightning has never disintegrated anyone, unlike with Vitiate and Darth Nyriss. Second, Sidious is good because of his cunning, his refusal to kill his master Plageius, who is much like Vitiate, in a duel and instead kill him in his sleep, is but a small show of this. Being very clever and intelligent does not make your force powers any deadlier.

[Aurbere]

Back for another round? That's a darn shame.

 

Vitiate disintegrated Meetra Surik and made Revans armor melt to his skin.

 

Big whoop. When Vitiate has mastered the Force Storm to the scale Sidious has, then we can talk.

 

He easily bested Revan who was one of the most powerful force users ever.

 

Sidious bested Yoda, a Jedi canonically stated to be the most powerful Jedi in the history of the Order. Yoda > Revan. Try again.

 

Secondly he possessed Deadly sight with which he disintegrated T3-M4.

 

Good for him.

 

By singular events, I mean him ( Palpatine) producing a wormhole that destroyed an entire fleet ( Dark Empire) and him using Sith Alchemy ( Dark Empire).

 

Sidious has used the Force Storm multiple times. It is not a singular event.

 

But if you want to rule out singular events, take a good, long look at Vitiate.

 

Thirdly, Sidious did not engage most of his opponents in lightsaber combat, lightsaber combat was his fall back.

 

Wrong, it was his primary means of humoring his opponents. He has engaged opponents in lightsaber combat more often than he has simply annihilated them with his Force abilities.

 

Fourthly, no where does it say or show that Sidious can use Force Teleport or Doppelgänger unlike Vitiate.

 

What I stated about his knowledge is a broad statement. No need for specifics when you have such a statement. But let's ignore that for a moment and make another comparison.

 

An'ya Kuro can teleport. Is she more powerful than Yoda? Nope. Try again.

 

Sidious has demonstrated no tactical ingenuity, he is not a battle field commander or leader, neither is Vitiate, they are both strategists, analyzing and playing things out on a grand scale, leaving the tactics to others.

 

I'm not talking about the battlefield, I'm talking about single combat.

 

What I think you have confused is that Sidious is the most successful Sith Lord, but he is not the most powerful.

 

Canonical statements disagree. Why don't you check out the thorough threads detailing these statements instead of making this pointless argument?

[wrnfkbsdgfbdsgb]

Back for another round? That's a darn shame.

 

 

 

Big whoop. When Vitiate has mastered the Force Storm to the scale Sidious has, then we can talk.

 

 

 

Sidious bested Yoda, a Jedi canonically stated to be the most powerful Jedi in the history of the Order. Yoda > Revan. Try again.

 

Good for him.

 

Sidious has used the Force Storm multiple times. It is not a singular event.

 

But if you want to rule out singular events, take a good, long look at Vitiate.

 

 

Wrong, it was his primary means of humoring his opponents. He has engaged opponents in lightsaber combat more often than he has simply annihilated them with his Force abilities.

 

What I stated about his knowledge is a broad statement. No need for specifics when you have such a statement. But let's ignore that for a moment and make another comparison.

 

An'ya Kuro can teleport. Is she more powerful than Yoda? Nope. Try again.

 

I'm not talking about the battlefield, I'm talking about single combat.

 

Canonical statements disagree. Why don't you check out the thorough threads detailing these statements instead of making this pointless argument?

 

One, where does Sidious preform multiple force storms? Two, I never said teleport Is what makes Vitaitemore powerful, I said it's one of the things, not the thing. The singular thing is his knowledge base. Thirdly, if you want broad statements, Vitiate has more broad statements than Sidious so that turns against you. Fourthly, if these are pointless arguments, why are you bothering to adress them at all instead of just dismissing me? If I had no point there would not be a need for a response, yet people respond. So, stop lying to yourself.

[Aurbere]

One, where does Sidious preform multiple force storms?

 

At least use Wookieepedia.

Two, I never said teleport Is what makes Vitaitemore powerful, I said it's one of the things, not the thing. The singular thing is his knowledge base.

 

Doesn't matter. Sidious' knowledge base is still larger. As I stated before, Sidious has studied all known Force Powers. This is a canonically backed statement.

 

Thirdly, if you want broad statements, Vitiate has more broad statements than Sidious so that turns against you.

 

How's that?

 

Fourthly, if these are pointless arguments, why are you bothering to adress them at all instead of just dismissing me? If I had no point there would not be a need for a response, yet people respond. So, stop lying to yourself.

 

Trust me, I'm not lying to myself. The truth is, I miss these kinds of arguments. It's been so long since I've had a decent debate with someone like you. Things have been boring around here with everybody generally agreeing on certain topics. I never get any real challenge. So that's why you're here, to give me that excitement. So good job, minion.

 

So just one question left, are you going to read those threads I mentioned? I'll repost them for you.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=685181

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=626813

 

Have fun, dear. Come back when you're done.

[wrnfkbsdgfbdsgb]

At least use Wookieepedia.

 

 

Doesn't matter. Sidious' knowledge base is still larger. As I stated before, Sidious has studied all known Force Powers. This is a canonically backed statement.

 

How's that?

Trust me, I'm not lying to myself. The truth is, I miss these kinds of arguments. It's been so long since I've had a decent debate with someone like you. Things have been boring around here with everybody generally agreeing on certain topics. I never get any real challenge. So that's why you're here, to give me that excitement. So good job, minion.

So just one question left, are you going to read those threads I mentioned? I'll repost them for you.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=685181

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=626813

 

Have fun, dear. Come back when you're done.

From Wookiepedia:

In addition to his lightsaber combat skills, Darth Sidious was one of the most powerful Force users of all time, perceived in the Force by his apprentice, Darth Tyranus, as a "black hole of the dark side." Note: ONE of the most powerful, not the most.

 

Upon spending decades immersing himself in the many facets of the Force, it was believed that Sidious had a mastery over all known powers, previously unknown powers, and could create new abilities on a whim.[158] By the time of his final death, he had become a nexus of the dark side capable of tearing apart the fabric of space. Note: believed not confirmed.

Sidious' Force abilities were extensive and potent enough that even overpowering him in direct combat at full power required a large amount of Force-sensitives with each possessing a strong potential in the Force: yet he couldn't sense that his own apprentice would kill him ( in a cheap manner at that )

 

he was captured by Zaarin's forces with the aid of Lyn and her students aboard the Majestic[138] and when he was defeated over Pinnacle Base by the combined efforts of Luke Skywalker, Leia Skywalker, and then-unborn Anakin Solo. Last I checked, Vititate didn't get kidnapped.

[StarSquirrel]

If I had no point there would not be a need for a response, yet people respond. So, stop lying to yourself.

The fact you have no point is why we respond. For one, Aurbere is very correct on the need for a challenge every now and again, else how would we learn and entertain ourselves?

 

Second, I myself dislike people propagating inaccurate information. It confuses the people genuinely interested and also seems to be a lead cause of the most destructive forms of F.D (Fanboyism Disease) namely S.F.D (Severe F.D) in particular the mutations R.F.D or Revanism and V.F.D (Vitiate Fanboy Disease) all of which can any of the following:

• severe memory loss
  
• loss of emotional control
  
• decline in motor skills
  
• decline in rational thought
  
• in some cases loss of all mental faculties
  

 

Thankfully the diseases are treatable, and there has been great success. Everyone here likely has some form of Fanboyism Disease, but through education and rehabilitation they've be able to manage, suppress, or even cure many cases. Now it is time to inform the general public. The more they know, the sooner they can detect the early symptoms and the quicker they can be treated

Edited April 5, 2014 by StarSquirrel

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Again from Wookiepedia: Even as a child, the Sith Emperor possessed immense strength in the Force, and his abilities began to manifest themselves at the age of six. He used his newfound powers to snap his adoptive father's neck with a thought, and tortured his mother with the Force for months while feeding on her fear and pain. As his powers grew, Tenebrae continued to gorge himself on the fear and suffering of those whom he tortured in public executions. When he confronted his real father, the Sith Lord Dramath, at the age of ten, Tenebrae was able to strip the man of both his sanity and his power in the Force. Note: A Child.

 

Tenebrae's power at the age of thirteen was great enough for Marka Ragnos, the current Dark Lord of the Sith, to acknowledge the teenager's strength and grant him the title of Lord Vitiate. Note: Did not have a master, by his own right became a Sith Lord as A Child.

 

The Emperor's rituals on Dromund Kaas warped the planet's very atmosphere, creating perpetual lightning storms,[13] and he became a master of manipulating objects and the environment with the Force. He was easily able to block T3-M4's flamethrower by wrapping the Force around himself, and could send Revan flying across his throne room with barely an effort. The Emperor could conjure storms of Force lightning, and he disintegrated T3-M4 with just a thought by blasting the astromech droid into shrapnel.[1] The Emperor was able to summon Sith magic, which enabled him to create physical duplicates of himself while battling the Hero of Tython. Note: No effort also with T3-M4 : http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Deadly_Sight

 

By combining various Force techniques, the Emperor was also able to imbue portions of his consciousness into infants, transforming those Children of the Emperor into extensions of his will. He could suppress his Children's personas and even their Force-sensitivity, making them the ultimate covert operatives, and further possess them like

puppets. Haven't seen that from Palpatine

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The fact you have no point is why we respond. For one, Aurbere is very correct on the need for a challenge every now and again, else how would we learn and entertain ourselves?

 

Second, I myself dislike people propagating inaccurate information. It confuses the people genuinely interested and also seems to be a lead cause of the most destructive forms of F.D (Fanboyism Disease) namely S.F.D (Severe F.D) in particular the mutations R.F.D or Revanism and V.F.D (Vitiate Fanboy Disease) all of which can any of the following:

• severe memory loss
  
• loss of emotional control
  
• decline in motor skills
  
• decline in rational thought
  
• in some cases loss of all mental faculties
  

Thankfully the diseases are treatable, and there has been great success. Everyone here likely has some form of Fanboyism Disease, but through education and rehabilitation they've be able to manage, suppress, or even cure many

cases. Now it is time to inform the general public. The more they know, the sooner they can detect the early symptoms and the quicker they can be treated

Don't tell me that I don't know my lore. I know it better than most people. This is not an issue of knowing lore, it's an issue of what you use to support your position. It's which point is strongest, that doesn't mean the lore is inaccurate, perhaps you should read what I say and confirm it to see if it's true or false before making a judgement.

[Beniboybling]

Now, now, don't get too crazy. My sub though is gonna end soon I think and then I shall be away for a bit, unless something comes up.

I mean unsubscribe from this thread lol... damn now I've posted I'm subscribed again.

[StarSquirrel]

From Wookiepedia:

In addition to his lightsaber combat skills, Darth Sidious was one of the most powerful Force users of all time, perceived in the Force by his apprentice, Darth Tyranus, as a "black hole of the dark side." Note: ONE of the most powerful, not the most.

Yes, when talking straight force-users Luke was more powerful and Anakin (pre-Vader) had a higher force potential as well (though) that was never achieved. If it had said "most powerful Sith of all time" then it'd have been a definitive yes. Understand context please.

Upon spending decades immersing himself in the many facets of the Force, it was believed that Sidious had a mastery over all known powers, previously unknown powers, and could create new abilities on a whim.[158] By the time of his final death, he had become a nexus of the dark side capable of tearing apart the fabric of space. Note: believed not confirmed.

You're joking right? Ok, so the guy who has the entire Jedi library (including Sith holocrons located within), and the sum of all sith knowledge stored across thousands and thousands of years from the time of Ajunta Pall onwards collected painstakingly and added to by every sith of the Baneite line and somehow the wonderkid of the OR learns all these powers and more. Read Aurbere's links and learn just how wrong you are here. Again, you fail to understand context and lack knowledge on the topic.

 

Sidious' Force abilities were extensive and potent enough that even overpowering him in direct combat at full power required a large amount of Force-sensitives with each possessing a strong potential in the Force: yet he couldn't sense that his own apprentice would kill him ( in a cheap manner at that )

 

he was captured by Zaarin's forces with the aid of Lyn and her students aboard the Majestic[138] and when he was defeated over Pinnacle Base by the combined efforts of Luke Skywalker, Leia Skywalker, and then-unborn Anakin Solo. Last I checked, Vititate didn't get kidnapped.

Ok, so being beat by the combined efforts of the children on the Chosen one (one of whom is well documented as the most powerful force user ever) makes him less than Vitiate how exactly? Vitiate never fought anyone even close to Luke's power level. Context and knowledge are yet again two things you lack.

 

Also, I'm not familiar with his being captured, but wasn't Vitiate also imprisoned (or at least his voice) on Voss for a while? Yeah Vitiate is totally flawless

 

Again from Wookiepedia: Even as a child, the Sith Emperor possessed immense strength in the Force, and his abilities began to manifest themselves at the age of six. He used his newfound powers to snap his adoptive father's neck with a thought, and tortured his mother with the Force for months while feeding on her fear and pain. As his powers grew, Tenebrae continued to gorge himself on the fear and suffering of those whom he tortured in public executions. When he confronted his real father, the Sith Lord Dramath, at the age of ten, Tenebrae was able to strip the man of both his sanity and his power in the Force. Note: A Child.

Cool beans... what exactly does this prove?

 

Tenebrae's power at the age of thirteen was great enough for Marka Ragnos, the current Dark Lord of the Sith, to acknowledge the teenager's strength and grant him the title of Lord Vitiate. Note: Did not have a master, by his own right became a Sith Lord as A Child.

Impressive. I know plenty of people who grew several inches very quickly, and guess what? They're still much shorter than I am now. Again, force power (like height) tapers off at some point and this debate is about what heights each were able to reach. Childhood means nothing.

 

The Emperor's rituals on Dromund Kaas warped the planet's very atmosphere, creating perpetual lightning storms,[13] and he became a master of manipulating objects and the environment with the Force. He was easily able to block T3-M4's flamethrower by wrapping the Force around himself, and could send Revan flying across his throne room with barely an effort. The Emperor could conjure storms of Force lightning, and he disintegrated T3-M4 with just a thought by blasting the astromech droid into shrapnel.[1] The Emperor was able to summon Sith magic, which enabled him to create physical duplicates of himself while battling the Hero of Tython. Note: No effort also with T3-M4 : http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Deadly_Sight

Ah, but see the part where Revan (known to be inferior in strength to Luke) manages to withstand his lightning? Of course you don't it doesn't fit neatly into your box of "Vitiate superiority". Perhaps you also ignore the fact Sidious made actual storms (not just manipulated them)... in space... multiple times... and destroyed entire fleets with them...

By combining various Force techniques, the Emperor was also able to imbue portions of his consciousness into infants, transforming those Children of the Emperor into extensions of his will. He could suppress his Children's personas and even their Force-sensitivity, making them the ultimate covert operatives, and further possess them like

puppets. Haven't seen that from Palpatine

Mara Jade ring a bell to you? No? Again you lack knowledge. LTR

Edited April 5, 2014 by StarSquirrel

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Yes, when talking straight force-users Luke was more powerful and Anakin (pre-Vader) had a higher force potential as well (though) that was never achieved. If it had said "most powerful Sith of all time" then it'd have been a definitive yes. Understand context please.

 

You're joking right? Ok, so the guy who has the entire Jedi library (including Sith holocrons located within), and the sum of all sith knowledge stored across thousands and thousands of years from the time of Ajunta Pall onwards collected painstakingly and added to by every sith of the Baneite line and somehow the wonderkid of the OR learns all these powers and more. Read Aurbere's links and learn just how wrong you are here. Again, you fail to understand context and lack knowledge on the topic.

 

Ok, so being beat by the combined efforts of the children on the Chosen one (one of whom is well documented as the most powerful force user ever) makes him less than Vitiate how exactly? Vitiate never fought

anyone even close to Luke's power level. Context and knowledge are yet again two things you lack.

 

Also, I'm not familiar with his being captured, but wasn't Vitiate also imprisoned (or at least his voice) on Voss for a while? Yeah Vitiate is totally flawless

 

Cool beans... what exactly does this prove?

 

Palaptine got kidnapped by Grand Admiral Zaarin and was rescued by Vader and Thrawn. Vitiate was only trapped on

Voss because the voice he chose was bound to the Nightmare Cave. Secondly, just because something is said doesn't make it true, I haven't seen or heard of Palpatine performing half the powers he is said to know or have examples being: Force Destruction, Spear of Midnight Black, Mechu Deru, Deadly Sight

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Mara Jade ring a bell to you? No? Again you lack knowledge. LTR

 

Mara Jade's will wasn't suppressed nor was she possessed she was trained. Apparently you lack knowledge here.

[StarSquirrel]

Mara Jade ring a bell to you? No? Again you lack knowledge. LTR

 

Mara Jade's will wasn't suppressed nor was she possessed she was trained. Apparently you lack knowledge here.

Have you even read any of the Hand of Thrawn books? Even after his death Sidious's presence haunted her, she could barely stand being around Luke without feeling the urge to kill him even though she didn't want to but he was compelling her to. And Sidious was dead!

Edited April 5, 2014 by StarSquirrel

[Beniboybling]

Don't tell me that I don't know my lore. I know it better than most people. This is not an issue of knowing lore, it's an issue of what you use to support your position. It's which point is strongest, that doesn't mean the lore is inaccurate, perhaps you should read what I say and confirm it to see if it's true or false before making a judgement.

 

I don't mean to be rude, OK perhaps just a little, but you are among the most ignorant of people I have come across on these forums. And that's saying a lot. But wait, allow me to explain:

 

Sidious hasn't disintegrated Force Users? Wrong.

 

Sidious hasn't used the Force Storm more than once? Wrong.

 

Sidious hasn't used lightsaber combat primarily in every confrontation he has had with another Force User? Wrong.

 

The Sith Emperor can teleport? Wrong.

 

The Sith Emperor disintegrated Meetra Surik?HA. Wrong.

 

The Sith Emperor used deadly sight to destroy T3?! Wrong.

 

Sidious has not been confirmed by multiple sources to be THE most powerful Force User ever?

(Wookieepedia is not a source, lol) Wrong.

 

Sidious did not become a dark side nexus by the time of his death and this is not actually a canonical fact? Wrong.

 

Wow, just wow.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Beniboybling

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I don't mean to be rude, OK perhaps just a little, but you are among the most ignorant of people I have come across on these forums. And that's saying a lot. But wait, allow me to explain:

 

Sidious hasn't disintegrated Force Users? Wrong.

 

Sidious hasn't used the Force Storm more than once? Wrong.

 

Sidious hasn't used lightsaber combat primarily in every confrontation he has had with another Force User? Wrong.

 

The Sith Emperor can teleport? Wrong.

 

The Sith Emperor disintegrated Meetra Surik?HA. Wrong.

 

The Sith Emperor used deadly sight to destroy T3?! Wrong.

 

Sidious has not been confirmed by multiple sources to be THE most powerful Force User ever?

(Wookieepedia is not a source, lol) Wrong.

 

Sidious did not become a dark side nexus by the time of his death and this is not actually a canonical fact? Wrong.

 

Wow, just wow.

Um, destryoing someone/something just by looking at them is deadly sight, and Vitiate has done that. As for here you say Sidious used it, please, if I am ignorant give me an example of him using each and every power I named that he couldn't use. I never said Sidious wasn't a dark side nexus, and finally, you don't insult me, there is a difference between using the incorrect knowledge to support an argument and not having any knowledge, so, what I say is correct by lore, if anything apparently my argument is flawed, but that doesn't mean the lore is incorrect.

[Aurbere]

From Wookiepedia:

In addition to his lightsaber combat skills, Darth Sidious was one of the most powerful Force users of all time, perceived in the Force by his apprentice, Darth Tyranus, as a "black hole of the dark side." Note: ONE of the most powerful, not the most.

 

Canonical statements from George Lucas, Leland Chee, and various sourcebooks credit Sidious as the most powerful Sith Lord ever, in history etc.

 

I pointed you to Wookieepedia so that you could look up Sidious' Force Storms.

 

Upon spending decades immersing himself in the many facets of the Force, it was believed that Sidious had a mastery over all known powers, previously unknown powers, and could create new abilities on a whim.[158] By the time of his final death, he had become a nexus of the dark side capable of tearing apart the fabric of space. Note: believed not confirmed.

 

It is a confirmed statement from a canon sourcebook.

 

Sidious' Force abilities were extensive and potent enough that even overpowering him in direct combat at full power required a large amount of Force-sensitives with each possessing a strong potential in the Force: yet he couldn't sense that his own apprentice would kill him ( in a cheap manner at that )

 

he was captured by Zaarin's forces with the aid of Lyn and her students aboard the Majestic[138] and when he was defeated over Pinnacle Base by the combined efforts of Luke Skywalker, Leia Skywalker, and then-unborn Anakin Solo. Last I checked, Vititate didn't get kidnapped.

 

Say what you want about Sidious, at least he didn't try to

.

 

That's Jar Jar levels of stupidity.

[wrnfkbsdgfbdsgb]

Canonical statements from George Lucas, Leland Chee, and various sourcebooks credit Sidious as the most powerful Sith Lord ever, in history etc.

 

I pointed you to Wookieepedia so that you could look up Sidious' Force Storms.

 

It is a confirmed statement from a canon sourcebook.

 

Say what you want about Sidious, at least he didn't try to

.

 

That's Jar Jar levels of stupidity.

 

So the apparently most powerful Sith getting kidnapped by an Admiral he hand picked isn't in the least embarrassing and rather stupid on his part?

[wrnfkbsdgfbdsgb]

Have you even read any of the Hand of Thrawn books? Even after his death Sidious's presence haunted her, she could barely stand being around Luke without feeling the urge to kill him even though she didn't want to but he was compelling her to. And Sidious was dead!

Being haunted and being possessed are two very different things. Vader was haunted by dreams of Padme, was he possessed? No. Mara Jade was trained as a child, not possessed by a part of Palpatine. Her training under him as a child is what let this take place, influence from a master is diffent than will suppression and possession. Furthermore I have read the books, and Mara Jade has resisted it, obviously, so it's effects are near negligible.

Edited April 5, 2014 by wrnfkbsdgfbdsgb

[Aurbere]

So the apparently most powerful Sith getting kidnapped by an Admiral he hand picked isn't in the least embarrassing and rather stupid on his part?

 

I didn't say that. I did mean that it wasn't as stupid as body checking a lightsaber.

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I didn't say that. I did mean that it wasn't as stupid as body checking a lightsaber.

Is that stupidity? Or is it paranoia?

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On a somewhat unrelated note, at least Vitiate doesn't look like a mutant version of Gollum. http://darthipedia.com/wiki/Palpatine

 

(Yes I know this is not canon, obviously but if nothing else, just the picture, and despite the comic aspect, I think we can agree on some things)

[StarSquirrel]

Being haunted and being possessed are two very different things. Vader was haunted by dreams of Padme, was he possessed? No. Mara Jade was trained as a child, not possessed by a part of Palpatine. Her training under him as a child is what let this take place, influence from a master is diffent than will suppression and possession. Furthermore I have read the books, and Mara Jade has resisted it, obviously, so it's effects are near negligible.

Your arguments are a joke, you realize that right?

 

Ok, haunted might not have been the best word. Read Blood of the Empire OR comics then read the Hand of Thrawn books. Compare Exal Kressh and Mara. It is very clear that those two faced extremely similar circumstances, in regards to the presence in their mind. The difference being that Sidious's influence didn't just drive Mara mad, but physically compelled her at times to try and kill Luke. And again, Sidious was dead. Vitiate was alive, and still couldn't compel Exal to do anything more than kill a few smugglers who were annoying her anyway and she willingly gave in to him. Exal was even better at resisting Vitiate than Mara ever was at resisting Sidious and they both were raised with their sith masters (not to mention yet again that on was dead, the other still living.)

 

Also, on the topic of Vitiate. How strong is his connection with his "children" anyways? Kira broke free by herself and when Vitiate's Voice (not even the man himself) died his connection with the children was lost. He didn't even have to die to lose the connection.

 

Oh, should we go on to how Vitiate couldn't stop Exal Kressh or Lord Scourge (who had served under him for 300 freakin years) from betraying him? Perhaps explain why Vitiate routinely underestimated the HoT, who, after breaking his domination, and freeing others from it, managed to thoroughly eliminate all his agents preparing for the galaxy-eating ritual.

[Beniboybling]

Um, destryoing someone/something just by looking at them is deadly sight, and Vitiate has done that. As for here you say Sidious used it, please, if I am ignorant give me an example of him using each and every power I named that he couldn't use. I never said Sidious wasn't a dark side nexus, and finally, you don't insult me, there is a difference between using the incorrect knowledge to support an argument and not having any knowledge, so, what I say is correct by lore, if anything apparently my argument is flawed, but that doesn't mean the lore is incorrect.

Very well, for the sake of educating you I've taken the liberty of editing my post to include evidence. Enjoy:

Sidious hasn't disintegrated Force Users? Wrong.

 

After their failed attempt to replace Vader with a Maul doppelganger, Sidious disintegrated the three dark side prophets responsible with a blast of lightning - by which I mean reduced to bone.

Sidious hasn't used the Force Storm more than once? Wrong.

In 10 ABY, a reborn Palpatine sent Force storms out to numerous star systems throughout the galaxy after unifying the various feuding Imperial factions formed after the Battle of Endor.

 

...

 

After Palpatine was defeated by Skywalker in a duel, he poured his rage into the creation of another Force storm, one far more powerful than the one he used to capture Skywalker from Coruscant. The storm headed toward Pinnacle Base and began obliterating the New Republic fleet, destroying twelve ships within moments.

 

--Taken from Wookieepedia, seeing as you love it so much.

 

Not only did Sidious conjure multiple Force Storms at once when he first used the power, but he later used the power again on an even greater scale. It is quite obvious he could conjure these storms at will with little difficulty. Not that anyone cares, once is enough. Your "singular instance" argument could not be anymore nonsensical.

Sidious hasn't used lightsaber combat primarily in every confrontation he has had with another Force User? Wrong.

 

Sidious vs Darth Maul & Savage Opress: He engaged the brothers first and foremost on lightsaber combat, only resorting to the Force when he grew tired of the battle. And even then he ended up defeating Maul and Savage in lightsaber combat displays.

 

Sidious vs Windu, Tiin, Fisto and Kolar: Sidious engaged and defeated all but Windu in lightsaber combat before proceeding to engage Windu himself in lightsaber combat. Only when Windu disarmed Sidious did he fall back on the Force.

 

Sidious vs Yoda: Sidious again engaged the Jedi in lightsaber combat, only falling back on the Force when he gained the higher ground. Yoda for the record also always uses lightsaber combat first, Force last.

 

Sidious vs Luke Skywalker: In both his engagements with Luke he engaged him in pure lightsaber combat, only when again disarmed by Luke did he fall back on the Force Storm and even then not directed at Luke himself.

 

All in all the idea that Sidious somehow does not engage his opponents with his lightsaber is simply not the case, and in this particular duel he would attack the Sith Emperor with his lightsaber first and foremost.

The Sith Emperor can teleport? Wrong.

I do not recall a single instance of the Emperor ever doing this, I can only assume you are misinformed or fabricated it on a whim. It certainly would have come in handy in many situations.

The Sith Emperor disintegrated Meetra Surik? HA. Wrong.

Meetra Surik was killed by Lord Scourge when he betrayed and impaled her in the back. I do not recall the Sith Emperor taking the time to defile her corpse. Perhaps your own fanfiction story?

The Sith Emperor used deadly sight to destroy T3?! Wrong.

A tremor rippled through the air as the Emperor unleashed the full power of the Force against the defenseless droid, T3 never stood a chance, the little droid exploded into a million pieces, internal circuits and external casing obliterated in a single instant.

 

--Taken from Revan

 

A tremor rippled through the air? Deadly sight doesn't cause tremors, you stare at your opponent and they slowly disintegrated. This was not slow and there is no mention of the Emperor's gaze at all. It cannot be deadly sight, it is far more likely to be Force combustion:

 

Combustion, or Flamusfracta, was the Force ability that allowed users to cause an object to explode by sheer force of will.

 

--Taken from Wookieepedia

 

For the record, Sidious is capable of and used this power to destroy Leia's lightsaber.

Sidious has not been confirmed by multiple sources to be THE most powerful Force User ever?

(Wookieepedia is not a source, lol) Wrong.

Vader imagined the power that could be his if he crushed Palpatine and established his own rule over the Empire. But first, he would need his own apprentice. By himself, he could not hope to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord the galaxy had ever known.

 

--Taken From Vader: The Ultimate Guide

 

Yoda went after Palpatine in the empty Senate chamber, but could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history.

 

--Taken from The New Essential Chronology

 

Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil to ever use the Sith power bides his time.

 

--Taken from The Complete Visual Dictionary

 

It quickly became clear to Luke that this decrepit and seemingly defenceless old man was masterfully adept in the ways of the Dark Side of the Force. Indeed, as Vader had warned, the Emperor had become the Dark Side’s most powerful expression.

 

--Taken from the Dark Empire endnotes

 

Even Ulic Qel-Droma would be envious of Palpatine. He had succeeded where all others had failed in taming the Dark Side.

 

--Taken from Dark Empire Sourcebook

Yah, you get the idea. And all of these are sourced from objective reference books which are regarded as canon. Wookieepedia on the other hand is a Wiki site edited by fans and should not be considered objective fact unless adequately sourced. And that particular statement on his page is a product of the meddling of misguided fans such as yourself who think the Sith Emperor is stronger. Yet lack a firm canonical basis.

 

Sidious did not become a dark side nexus by the time of his death and this is not actually a canonical fact? Wrong.

Known dark nexuses included the twisted tree-cave on Dagobah, Halagad Ventor’s hermitage on Trinta, and the “stain” of dark side energy that hovered over Endor following the defeat of the Emperor.

 

--Taken from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

 

The key to Luke’s turning is the moment when he and Leia realise that the Emperor is no longer defined by his physical form, but has become a chaotic nexus of dark energies that swell and burst open the fabric of space, tearing apart everything in the vicinity, human and machine.

 

--Taken from the Dark Empire endnotes

Again, all from objective canon reference books.

 

And for the record:

Palpatine has spent decades studying the most arcane and esoteric Jedi disciplines. It is believed that he mastered nearly all the known powers, previously unknown powers, and devises new ones at his pleasure.

 

--Taken from Dark Empire Sourcebook

You seem to believe that because the source uses the term "believed" that is it untrue, this if fallacious. The source is not a subjective character opinion, it is an objective source which we have no reason to not believe and through decades of study in the dark side it is far from illogical to assume that Sidious did exactly this.

 

He certainly was capable of everything the Sith Emperor was. On the other hand there are a plethora of powers that Sidious has used that the Sith Emperor has not e.g. detoxify poison, Force Storm, Mechu-deru, immovability, battle meditation, Force concealment etc. etc. so your point could not be any more null.

 

In regards to what you seem to think is your trump card, the Admiral Zaarin business. Just no. Firstly we lack the full details on the confrontation, we are merely told that the Emperor is overwhelmed by a few half adepts. Secondly it seems highly unlikely that it is possible considering that the Emperor has taken down groups of far more powerful Force Users who have attempted to "capture" him i.e. the Jedi Council, and dispatched them easily.

 

And thirdly using a characters slip ups to claim their inferiority is a ridiculous argument as by its very definition these are instances that through either silly mistakes or disadvantageous odds the individual has been unable to bring their full abilities to bear. They happen to everyone, even the Sith Emperor exposes himself sometimes. But because they are inaccurate portrayals of an individuals full ability by very definition, they make for poor argument.

 

I don't expect you to respond to all of this, only the parts you will capable of refuting. So any points you fail to respond to I can only assume is your way of conceding the point. Please inform me if this is not the case.

 

P.S. The "facts" you are using to support your argument are incorrect. And by using false facts to support your argument you demonstrate your ignorance on the subject as you are lacking in the above knowledge.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

On a somewhat unrelated note, at least Vitiate doesn't look like a mutant version of Gollum. http://darthipedia.com/wiki/Palpatine

 

(Yes I know this is not canon, obviously but if nothing else, just the picture, and despite the comic aspect, I think we can agree on some things)

Actually I disagree, on the basis that "mutant version of Gollum" is a contradiction in terms.

[Beniboybling]

By combining various Force techniques, the Emperor was also able to imbue portions of his consciousness into infants, transforming those Children of the Emperor into extensions of his will. He could suppress his Children's personas and even their Force-sensitivity, making them the ultimate covert operatives, and further possess them like puppets. Haven't seen that from Palpatine

If your trying to argue that the Sith Emperor's control over his essence is greater than Palpatine's, I wouldn't bother.

 

Why? Well, given that you've refused to read my anaylsis on the subject, I'll bring it to you:

Sidious was a master over essence transfer, capable of transferring his essence into other hosts and most remarkable the essences of others - even non-Force sensitives. Furthermore as a spirit showed incredible strength of will. Upon experiencing his first death Sidious was banished to the depths of Chaos, but through his sheer strength of will he managed to escape as a Sith Spirit and possess the body of one of his disciples from light-years away. Upon experiencing his final death his spirit was only contained in the Netherworld through the combined strength of every deceased Jedi that inhabited it.

 

...

 

Sidious grossly surpasses the Sith Emperor’s strength of will as a spirit. The Emperor may have been capable of surviving his bodily death, but his spirit had to be collected by the Hand’s and required a great deal of recuperation before he could return to full strength. On the other had Sidious required no assistance, and was able to possess any one of his disciples and dominate their will regardless of distance.

 

And of course, the Sith Emperor’s ability to transfer his essence into multiple subjects has been replicated via Sidious’ ability to transfer his body into cloned hosts and again most remarkably the ability to transfer the essences of others, and even more remarkable non-Force sensitives with weak Force signatures/essences. Noting however that essence transfer was a power capable of being mastered by even minor Sith adepts - so one would assume the possibilities are endless when one has a willing subject and enough knowledge and time to study the field. Regardless Sidious surpasses the Sith Emperor in this field by being capable of manipulating the essences of others. Midi-chlorian manipulation being the icing on the cake.

 

--Taken from The REAL Most Powerful Sith Lord