Problem with today's MMO's

[thominoh]

*** Anti-social quest on rails theme park.. ***

 

Today's formula for MMO gaming is a the bread crumb trail of quest.. Do A, B, C and D, then move on to location 2 for quest E, F, G, and H.. After that, you move to location 3 for I, J, K and L.. This formula discourages grouping in my opinion because most people are never on the same questline.. Because of this games have to be somewhat soloable, compared to the old days..

 

Back in the day when I played EQ1 (before Kunark) one didn't have to worry about being on the same level or pace in questline to group.. Maybe that is the trick, is to not focus so much on theme park questlines.. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE, absolutely LOVE the class storyline in SWTOR, however, I would of loved to have the option to camp areas of a zone.. Which I do, for the purpose of crafting mats.. BUT, I feel I'm giving up exp & rewards for not doing the missions..

 

If I could change one thing, is to make the "heroic" quest repeatable as OFTEN as I want per day.. Honestly at level 20.. I'm not there long enough to do that daily day after day anyways.. However for those of us that enjoy social grouping, it gives us a reward and challenge to do so.. I would seriously think about skipping some of the NON class questlines for the exchange of doing heroics 3, 4 or 5 times that night..

 

Just food for thought..

[PuntaSur]

Good points.

 

I have a chaotic schedule each week, so doing dailies EVERY day is sometimes not possible. Instead of a lockout on daily quests (heroic and non-heroic), I'd like to see them put in a weekly cap (equal to the same daily x 7) on the accumulation of "daily commendations" so that you can either knock them out all in one day or two, or spread them out over multiple days during the weekly lockout period.

 

This helps folks with travel jobs, chaotic schedules, and other real life interests/obligations.

[Yfelsung]

The problem isn't the MMO, it's the players.

 

This is what the majority wants, so this is what we get.

[Napalm_AKI]

*** Anti-social quest on rails theme park.. ***

 

Today's formula for MMO gaming is a the bread crumb trail of quest.. Do A, B, C and D, then move on to location 2 for quest E, F, G, and H.. After that, you move to location 3 for I, J, K and L.. This formula discourages grouping in my opinion because most people are never on the same questline.. Because of this games have to be somewhat soloable, compared to the old days..

 

Back in the day when I played EQ1 (before Kunark) one didn't have to worry about being on the same level or pace in questline to group.. Maybe that is the trick, is to not focus so much on theme park questlines.. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE, absolutely LOVE the class storyline in SWTOR, however, I would of loved to have the option to camp areas of a zone.. Which I do, for the purpose of crafting mats.. BUT, I feel I'm giving up exp & rewards for not doing the missions..

 

If I could change one thing, is to make the "heroic" quest repeatable as OFTEN as I want per day.. Honestly at level 20.. I'm not there long enough to do that daily day after day anyways.. However for those of us that enjoy social grouping, it gives us a reward and challenge to do so.. I would seriously think about skipping some of the NON class questlines for the exchange of doing heroics 3, 4 or 5 times that night..

 

Just food for thought..

 

You had to group in EQ 1 cause you simply couldn't solo yellow cons, or at later lvl even blue cons, I wonder if it would have been the same if you could actually solo (I'm talking about early EQ here). I remember hours spent camping Orc camps, with the group to level up. It was a grind of proportions worse then Aion, not an experience I want to repeat.

 

On the other hand, because the system was so punishing you learned very quickly you role in a group, cause nobody wanted to loose hours worth of exp grinding to the death penalty.

[Abanoth]

For example of how things have changed, look at first person shooters. They went from exploring mazes looking for keys/solving puzzles to running down a corridor lobbing grenades with a cut scene every five minutes.

[Tal-N]

Old MMOs had the same problems, it isn't a new issue. The combat aspect of MMOs is not what encourages socialisation. It is the non-combat aspects which do.

 

Starwars Galaxies (pre-CU) had one of the worst combat experiences out of any MMO but had one of the best social experiences in any MMO for years. All players had to stop and socialize for simply getting what they needed on a day to day basis. Combat classes could only buy armor and weapons from real players, extended combat caused permanent wounding which could only be healed by real players. Crafters often needed resources from creatures that could only be killed by combat classes and your personal skill points didn't stretch far enough to allow someone to be a skilled crafter and combat character.

 

So inter-dependancy was the central reason why SWG was such a successful social MMO.

 

The only alternative to this is to have an MMO completely free of levels and stats. A totally skill-based MMO would all content to be made open to all players and the only limitations to prevent grouping would be the skill of the players themselves.

 

But so far, no MMO has been made which has even attempted to move away from age-old formula of stats and leveling.

[Ransom_BiC]

Sandbox.

 

Enough said.

[Tal-N]

Sandbox.

 

Enough said.

 

 

Sandbox alone doesn't work. APB was a sandbox game but socializing was obsolete.

[HanzoV]

If I could change one thing, is to make the "heroic" quest repeatable as OFTEN as I want per day..

 

^I can only agree with this.

[Dezzi]

Sandbox alone doesn't work. APB was a sandbox game but socializing was obsolete.

 

APB isn't a typical sandbox; it caters to a niche group within a niche group. Still a fun game though...

Edited February 15, 2012 by Dezzi

[Kaphik]

The problem isn't the MMO, it's the players.

 

This is what the majority wants, so this is what we get.

 

Exactly.

[JackalDark]

Ultima Online 2

 

nuff said.

[wabbajackthehutt]

Old MMOs had the same problems, it isn't a new issue. The combat aspect of MMOs is not what encourages socialisation. It is the non-combat aspects which do.

 

Starwars Galaxies (pre-CU) had one of the worst combat experiences out of any MMO but had one of the best social experiences in any MMO for years. All players had to stop and socialize for simply getting what they needed on a day to day basis. Combat classes could only buy armor and weapons from real players, extended combat caused permanent wounding which could only be healed by real players. Crafters often needed resources from creatures that could only be killed by combat classes and your personal skill points didn't stretch far enough to allow someone to be a skilled crafter and combat character.

 

So inter-dependancy was the central reason why SWG was such a successful social MMO.

 

The only alternative to this is to have an MMO completely free of levels and stats. A totally skill-based MMO would all content to be made open to all players and the only limitations to prevent grouping would be the skill of the players themselves.

 

But so far, no MMO has been made which has even attempted to move away from age-old formula of stats and leveling.

 

you mean if people wanted weapons and armor they had to trek across multiple planets and search through players auctioneers/vendors . an empty city/house full of NPC spam..yeah thats superb interaction.

 

oh and dont get me started on the dancer bot's ..i swear you people just fluff the crap out of games like no one else played them.

Edited February 15, 2012 by wabbajackthehutt

[Dezzi]

The problem isn't the MMO, it's the players.

 

This is what the majority wants, so this is what we get.

 

This sums it up nicely; games have become a mainstream big business, and investors now drive the direction of the industry.

 

Thank the Maker for indie developers!

[uruz]

It's what today's gamers want - blame it on that other massive hulk of a beast MMO and you'll find your answers there.

[Yfelsung]

This sums it up nicely; games have become a mainstream big business, and investors now drive the direction of the industry.

 

Thank the Maker for indie developers!

 

Yep. Pretty much whenever a genre becomes mainstream, the game quality tanks.

 

Halo and CoD4 made FPS mainstream on consoles... and we've had how many years of CoD and Halo clones since?

 

Blizzard made MMOs mainstream with WoW and, well, now this is what we get.

[kevlarto]

For example of how things have changed, look at first person shooters. They went from exploring mazes looking for keys/solving puzzles to running down a corridor lobbing grenades with a cut scene every five minutes.

 

Big changes in fisrt person shooters, they have story driven content now.

 

I hate to say it but wow sealed the mmo theme park, was to big of a hit to ignore, they tapped the casual market,for players that did not have time for games like EQ or UO,

 

had wow been a big hit as something else lets say sandbox then we would be playing sandbox games or hybrid shooter mmo's.. it's all about the money and the masses seem to like theme parks.. really thats all there is to it..

[SpyderBite]

The problem isn't the MMO, it's the players.

 

QFT.

 

Always been a "majority rules" development path based on player demands. If that weren't the case, everywhere would be open world PvP with no safe zones and all the MMOs would still be fun.

 

But, people don't want to lose/die/not be the best; so we are stuck with the cookie cutters that are MMOs today.

 

Blame your peers.. not the developers. The latter is just meeting the demands of the majority.

[Boldfury]

 

If I could change one thing, is to make the "heroic" quest repeatable as OFTEN as I want per day.. Honestly at level 20.. I'm not there long enough to do that daily day after day anyways.. However for those of us that enjoy social grouping, it gives us a reward and challenge to do so.. I would seriously think about skipping some of the NON class questlines for the exchange of doing heroics 3, 4 or 5 times that night..

 

Just food for thought..

 

Then, they'd have to change the rewards, some of them are too good to be able to do 5 times a day.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Boldfury

[Tal-N]

you mean if people wanted weapons and armor they had to trek across multiple planets and search through players actioneers . an empty city/house full of NPC spam..yeah thats superb interaction.

 

oh and dont get me started on the dancer bot's ..i swear you people just fluff the crap out of games like no one else played them.

 

If you socialized you never had problems with sourcing weapons and armor because you knew the best people personally and also knew of what towns had the best vendors. As for the AFK dancers, it wasn't always that way. The AFK botters in the cantina's were a real pain once the macro's became well known enough, but the problem wasn't on every server an many entertainment guilds existed who didn't allow macroers.

 

One of the biggest mistakes SOE did was allow for macros to automate actions.

[AJMTL]

Slop for the pigs.

[wabbajackthehutt]

If you socialized you never had problems with sourcing weapons and armor because you knew the best people personally and also knew of what towns had the best vendors. As for the AFK dancers, it wasn't always that way. The AFK botters in the cantina's were a real pain once the macro's became well known enough, but the problem wasn't on every server an many entertainment guilds existed who didn't allow macroers.

 

One of the biggest mistakes SOE did was allow for macros to automate actions.

 

no, after the first year of SWG all of the market's were monopolized by big guild malls, and every one sold their resorces to that persons VENDOR. and we went to those vendors/malls for items .

 

just be honest man, i played that crapola game also..

Edited February 15, 2012 by wabbajackthehutt

[TheSwamper]

The problem isn't the MMO, it's the players.

 

This is what the majority wants, so this is what we get.

 

This.

 

Also, there's a crapton of rose-coloring that goes with the old game nostalgia. People only remember what they liked.

 

As for me, I've been video-gaming since the 70's and I've no desire to go back to those days.

 

AFAIC, MMOs aren't yet soloable enough.

 

Grouping because you want to = great

 

Grouping because it's the only way to make endgame progress = sucks

[Yeren]

you mean if people wanted weapons and armor they had to trek across multiple planets and search through players auctioneers/vendors . an empty city/house full of NPC spam..yeah thats superb interaction.

 

oh and dont get me started on the dancer bot's ..i swear you people just fluff the crap out of games like no one else played them.

 

That's what it turned into ... that's not how it started out. I remember having an entertainer account (that's right you could only have 1 toon per account), and I would sit there for hours interacting with people coming in to get buffs.

 

When people left (because of the CU) servers started to die and THEN you got the auctioneer spam/entertainer bots. Don't bash a view on a game unless you take all points into it.

[Eileithia]

The theme-park / MMO on Rails is fine, if they'd just slow down the leveling curve. Past games took MONTHS to get to level cap, not weeks. The perceived instant gratification is what's killing the genre as a whole.

 

Having leveling take months gives developers more time to get more content out. EQ1 / Aion were grindfests, but games like EQ2, and even Vanilla WOW had just enough grind to keep you from hitting cap without getting bored and frustrated from doing the same thing over and over again.

 

If you played an average of 2-3 hours per night and 5-6 hours on weekends you ended up hitting cap around the time the first major content patch came out, or even first expansion. This is what has kept people playing for years, not hitting cap in 3 weeks, then being handed the best loot in the game 3 weeks later from getting "tokens" (I'm talking PVE here, not PVP). The best gear in the game should be gained from defeating the hardest encounters, not from commendations/tokens. Unique/rare items keep the hardcores happy, and give the casuals something to gawk at. The fact that there's no loot difference between Hard and Nightmare modes is ridiculous.

 

Obviously people who have no job, or tons of playtime hit the cap sooner than that, but there was still stuff for them to do while everyone else caught up, such as farming for rare/unique loot. We have true casuals in our guild (a few hours of playtime a week) who are hitting the cap already, and there's been no substantial content patches that couldn't be blown through in a couple nights.

 

Yes, this game is very alt friendly, but for those people who have no interest in playing 8 different characters, are burning out running the same 15 or so dailys, a handfull of flashpoints and 2 raids per week.

 

TL:DR version:

I don't understand why most new MMO's think you should be hitting level cap a month or two from release. Slow down the leveling curve, and people WILL play longer and there will be more time to develop new content before people burn out.