Jedi Shadow, Sith Assassin needs a big nerf soon.

[Synacus]

Why is this not in the PVP page?

 

DO NOT NERF THE WORST AOE TANK IN THE GAME.All we have is single target tanking and its ONLY good becuase of the DMG we do.

 

If you are talking Pve which this topic being here I would think you are.

 

You want to post this on the pvp forum and have them LOL you out of there plz do.

[tXHereticXt]

Buff Jug/Guard, don't nerf a class. Boost the ones coming up short.

[LoKiei]

Nothing to add but unless I am missing some hidden weakness in Shadows I agree. Edited March 12, 2012 by LoKiei

[Aeriese]

Why do you want assassins to be nerfed? Why not leave them alone and boost Sith/Jedi warriors? Nerfing is harmful. You don't need it to create balance. Nerfing is like shattering one boxer's knees so that the other boxer will have a better chance of beating them.

[subrosian]

Why is this not in the PVP page?

 

DO NOT NERF THE WORST AOE TANK IN THE GAME.All we have is single target tanking and its ONLY good becuase of the DMG we do.

 

If you are talking Pve which this topic being here I would think you are.

 

You want to post this on the pvp forum and have them LOL you out of there plz do.

 

The OP is completely ignorant of the fact he's not talking about Assassin TANKS, he's discussing DPS who play in Darkness spec, wearing DPS gear, using the abilities of the Darkness branch, or playing hybrid Darkness / Madness.

 

And gad forbid they discuss it purely in the PVP forum, they completely ignore PVE and we wind up with another OP nerf. I already had to shelve my Operative because it was miserable to play in Operations. I have been 50 for all of 4 days on my Tanksin, and I have full Columni / Rakata gear *from PUGs*.

 

There's nothing more to say on it, there's just no way anyone could think that what happens when the PVP community dictates class balance arbitrarily is acceptable.

[Otaking_SW]

Oh boo friggin hoo, I got 1v1'd in my Champion/Cent geared Mara/DPS sage by a BM assassin.

 

Boo friggin hoo, I have to call over a 4th guildie to alpha strike the assassin because he can live through the first three marauder/jugg 4k smashes/chokes or Sage/Sorc TK snares pinning him for 2k a tick. Every other class only takes three guildies to kill.

 

I really stopped reading the post at Kinetic Ward because if you know anything about PVP you know how useless shielding is.

 

Assassin is deadly in skilled hands but mainly in a 1v1 scenario, meanwhile you still have Sage/Sorcs and Maras facerolling mega damage to multiple opponents and heal/bubble/kite to live forever with comparatively little gear and little skill.

 

It takes forever to get the right combination of tank and dps gear to do what you've seen on assassin too, take your four set piece bonus and grind it again at BM that's how long it takes. It's not twice as long it's eight times as long.

 

High utility yes. But overpowered? Give me a break, OP for running huttball maybe but so is Mara and Extricate on Sage...whatever.

[Fallerup]

Atleast be honest and say Tank shadows/assassins, infiltration/deception on the other hand could use a big buff ^.-

 

The tank tree does better damage than the dps tree so obviously something isn't right lul

 

as a deception assassin, I can do massive damage, IF left alone. as soon as I'm targeted by Mercs or Commandos spamming Grav round and traiser missles, I'm dead in seconds. same with sages and sorcerers. my defensive abilities have long CD (2 min. on deflection for example). Something needs to be done.

 

in the 10-49 WZ bracket, I was godly. in 50 WZ, I die in seconds. I think it's the gear difference that makes the gap so huge. the people that have PvPed from day one will wipe the floor with everyone. Not because they are good, but because they are geared.

 

If you wipe the floor with ppl in the 10-49 bracket, you show that you are good at what you do. 50's however... not nessecarily.

[Otaking_SW]

Yes the massive healing powers of assassin. Let's be ludicrously generous just to get a round number and pretend our BM assassin in DPS gear has 20k hps with a rakata fortitude stim and BH buff.

 

Let us set up the combo.

 

1.5 GCDs

 

1) Wither

2) Shock

3)Spam regular attack because both are on cooldown, or a real attack if you'd like to wait for force because assassin is ridiculously force starved in this build even with the paltry force reduction available.

4) Wait for force

5) Wither or Shock

 

Now you have 3 charges. It's only taken you 7.5 seconds.

 

Now let's be extremely generous to our hypothetical easy mode seeking opponent who can't handle the oh so powerful heals of assassin and ignore the fact that they are too stupid to interrupt a 3 second channel so the assassin gets the full ticks off fully specced for heals which is 3% a tick for 9% of 20k, or a whopping 1800 hp heal in this extremely top of the line DPS geared assassin.

 

1800 hp in 7.5 seconds with full BM gear.

 

WOW OVERPOWERED

 

 

Oh but wait you forgot Dark Charge! Yeah it's around 150 or less, with a 4 second internal cooldown if it even procs, so being generous as possible, and being a little impossible in the assassin's favor in this example, the assassin has received a whopping 2100 hp heal in 7.5 seconds with all the stars in alignment and fighting a drooling moron who doesn't know how to interrupt or run around a pillar to cut off Force Lightning.

 

This is in 31/0/10 spec which the OP is talking about with all force reduction and tank/heal and dps improvements. I'm Valor 63 and have been running this spec since jump. I'm extremely good at it, I can pull down the numbers, the kills, and the medals, but there are still Maras, PTs, and especially Sages and Ops that can totally chump me 1v1.

 

Try an Operative, you can kill people in 4.5-6 seconds then heal yourself to full in the last 1.5-3 seconds.

 

Pros know what I'm talking about, everyone else needs to L2P.

[Otaking_SW]

And in fact it's a 2100 heal in 10.5 seconds since I didn't add in the 3 seconds of FL itself.

 

Show me the heal class that wants to take 10.5 seconds to cast a 2100 heal.

 

You can get a door in voidstar in 8 seconds for reference.

[Otaking_SW]

Kinetic shadows are everywhere right now, which is why they are starting to receive attention

 

But really, a lot players have a warped view of game balance because certain extremely powerful specs are not often seen.

 

Shouldn't really comment on kinetic shadows unless you have encountered the following:

 

Skilled operative

Skilled pyrotech PT

Skilled pyrotech merc

Skilled Sorc

Skilled marauder

Skilled healers of all specs

(Hell even a tracer spammer with a group meat shield)

 

Getting demolished by these specs especially in group environments is required to gain a proper perspective on class balance.

 

Kinetic shadows are super strong.

 

They are probably the best 1v1 spec in the game, this is a group based game though.

 

I don't have much problem with a slight nerf really, but it should be no more than a 5% damage nerf tied to combat technique (with a corresponding threat increase).

 

This is based on what I have seen the specs above are capable of in the right hands.

 

Anything more is overcompensation, and ignores the the real problem of sniper/jugg weakness.

 

Furthermore nothing should be changed until the rated warzone meta game is well established.

 

This gentleman is also a scholar.

 

I'm glad you put Merc Pyro in that list because that's the next thing I want to try. Sick of force users and have a real distaste for the true OP of OP Sage/Sorc. You don't hear anyone screaming about Merc Pyro too much just PT so I'd like to change that Haven't run into any good ones on my server but definitely scary ones of every other type in your list.

[the_coaltrain]

Really? Ok, lets nerf project burst (which is mainly RNG anyway). But in conjunction lets stop EVERY other class from being able to do more than 2k dmg in a GCD. Why 2k? because i made it up. Like your bo**cks argument about project. Not only would that nerf Tank Sins, it would nerf Infiltration specs as well.

 

Youre also complaining about using multiple skills/buffs to achieve high-end damage? seriously? Every PVP (and PVE) player since the dawn of time has done this. And is available to EVERYONE (just not cry-babies who cant play properly).

 

IF resilience were less than 100% and/or did not cleanse then Force Cloak (Vanish) would be worthless as generally you will have to pop Resilience AND Force Cloak together to escape (Esp Infiltration Spec which is too squishy without escape tools).

 

 

I think you guys need to stop whining and have a look at your own abilities. I could call many of them OP and demand a nerf, but i dont. I kill some classes easily, some take a bit of effort, and some pretty much spank my bum all day long (unless played by someone garbage). Thats how MMOs work. YOU are not the central character A LA single player games. You will lose sometimes. You will die a lot. Get f**king over yourselves.

 

 

Either way... I'd say 1.2 shadow tank and assassin tank specs will lose that ability to have both high end damage and high end mitigation. And you take away either and my Vanguard will have just another class to mop into his bucket.

 

good day sir.

[SvnStrSlm]

Im no pvp master but i have full cent and champ head/weapon and have been succesful with all of the 4 main shadow specs. I averag around 200-300k damage with about 25-30 kills. i avoid most 1v1 becuase my class is clearly not meant for 1v1 against tanks or heavy dps. I focus on objectives mostly and setting up distractions for ninja caps. Too me the class is fine. im sorry but i dont think every class should be able to go 1v1 against every other class where only skill and luck determines the outcome.one thin i found is the 30% armor increase and aoe reduction greatly improve my aurvivability.

 

as for pve side i have no complaints. level 50 and gearing out with my guild atm. I really wish i could play an mmo that was some developers vision and not these keyboard warriors who just need to **** and play or quit

Edited March 14, 2012 by SvnStrSlm

[kyuyu]

All shadow/assassins in PvP use their tank buffs (stance), not their dps buffs.

 

Don't you guys think this is a problem? I mean really? If pure dps assassin is so awesome, how come I never ever see a dps buffed assassin/shadow?

 

Oh, tank assassin can just wreck any other class fast enough.

 

If a tank class can kill another class within 10 seconds but with uber survivability, who would play a dps class that can kill another play within, say 8 seconds? The dps difference is not significant enough to give up the survivability.

[subrosian]

Either way... I'd say 1.2 shadow tank and assassin tank specs will lose that ability to have both high end damage and high end mitigation. And you take away either and my Vanguard will have just another class to mop into his bucket.

 

good day sir.

 

Assassins aren't being touched in 1.2. The so-called "imbalance" of Sins / Shadows running in DPS gear while Tank-spec'd would be self-corrected by more Gunslingers and Snipers forcing mitigation on ball carriers... instead people roll Sorcs / Maras and wonder why tank gear is undervalued.

 

Oh, and Vanguards are being nerfed hard, so, that may impact your plans slightly.

[subrosian]

The dps difference is not significant enough to give up the survivability.

 

The DPS spec for Sins is bugged right now, Deception is literally unplayable in PVP because our most important DPS abilities will start animating and then fail to land, due to the game checking positional requirements after the animation completes, rather than at the time of cast.

 

As far as DPS using Dark Charge while in Darkness spec, they don't have a choice, if they run Lightning Charge they can't guard, do less damage and lose the option to use their ward. Lightning Charge doesn't provide a significant DPS bonus unless they're talented heavily into Deception or Madness trees.

[the_coaltrain]

Oh, and Vanguards are being nerfed hard, so, that may impact your plans slightly.

 

How so? I have seen no actual information on this. Only speculation.

 

 

Actually, I retract all my comments. They will not change a thing about the game nor how people attack one another. This is my final pvp /whine post. May we all remember it's just a game.

Edited March 15, 2012 by the_coaltrain

[RikHar]

See a player yelling "nerf" and you're seeing a player who has no clue how to play their class.

[Caceyn]

The only thing I can say is this:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=357823

 

From people who play Assassin/Shadow at the highest possible level.

[Xioshen]

Nerf your complaints and you might see a spike in your skill should you be willing to forward yourself. All that energy you put into trying to make another class look bad, you could transfer to making yourself adapt and overcome. Damn shame how many pathetic players we have... run to daddy and cry about everything that doesn't go or work exactly how you want it to lol. Edited March 16, 2012 by Xioshen

[Dhariq]

Kinetic ward spammable every 12 sec with 8 wards unlikely to be struck off in normal pvp situations.

 

This has to be the most funny thread in this forum. Do you even understand what you are talking about? *laugh*

Yes it is very unlikely that it is 'struck off' because 50% or so of player abilities just ignore the whole mechanic which makes it op because it is ignore and therefor does nothing? Awesome troll skills!

 

Also Shadow mean mitigation is only on par with other tank if you have this up. It is even used in all calculations I seen as Shadows normal mitigation and not as a cd ability or anything even though you have to spend force on it and have to use it.

[Alavastre]

In patch 1.2 this thread will be nerfed.

 

You will only be allowed to complain about one issue at a time instead of spamming the complain button.

[unclekaula]

I read that in Morgan Freeman's voice.

 

Haha thats great

[Chaos_Distortion]

Kinetic ward spammable every 12 sec with 8 wards unlikely to be struck off in normal pvp situations. one of the highest force mitigation of any class. 3 additional proc defensive abilities including a permanent heal ability.

 

Not only that, their spamming of telekinetic throws/Lightnings have the ability to heal themselves, and slowing down their foes, adding to insane survivability along with massive dps and with Harnessed shadow up, it cannot be interrupted(another overpowered feature to a completely overpowered ability). They can stealth when needed, and can sprint when needed and kite when needed adding to survivability and an element of surprise. Jedi Shadows seems to be totally imbalanced, especially in PVP and I invite anyone of you who denies this to offer up a good counter to my arguments. Anyone who agrees please chime in as well. Jedi Shadow has too many useful utilities for PVP including with PULL, they have just about everything to counter everything on top of being the best pure tank in the game and second best self healer after healer classes, at least where PVP is concerned. Something seems to be horribly off with this picture.

 

A Jedi Shadow being able to out-tank, outrun, out stealth, out dps, out kite and able to out CCs and out self heals, on an above average level in the game. There's just seem to be no buffs that could bring any classes on par with a Shadow specced for PVP without breaking the game mechanics so the only option out it seems is to nerf Shadows -

 

A class that will be able to consistently get 300K+ dmg, and 100K+ healing in warzone matches along with being able to sprint stealth, pull, and tank like a madman, and score 55-0 in kills ratio very often, something is very very wrong with the balance here- guys - discuss with civility, any blatant fanboyism post or trolling, or off topic post will be reported.

 

For more reference of how overpowered a Shadow/Assassin could be in PVP, please visit this thread:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=336999

Telekinetic Throw/Force lightning has a 6 second cd on shadows/assassins so wth are you talking about exactly when you say that they're spam-able? Are you sure you're not looking at sages/sorcs that are balance/madness specced spamming force lightning/tk throw and assuming that they are shadows/assassins? In the river of endless inquisitors (Mainly sorcs.), it's hard to tell the difference sometimes.. I don't agree with anything that you said by the way, shadows/assassins are fine as is. I don't think any class in this game need any more nerfs, especially not after what Bioware has shown us when it comes to them nerfing a class (Looking at you, overnerfed dps scoundrels/operatives.).

Edited March 16, 2012 by Chaos_Distortion

[Sgtfirearms]

it often feels like when someone tries to play a PVE spec ina pvp setting an gets rick rolled by a pvp spec its overpowered or it needs nerfing dont just look at the pvp aspect of ur "choice of nerf" but look at the pve aspect as well u know y WoW as been crippled its because of posts like this that forced horrible changes because one aspect was to "broken/overpowered" so it forced the other aspect of the game to crumble an fail im betting ur one of those keyboard turning back peddlers as well, try improving urself before changing others Edited March 16, 2012 by Sgtfirearms

[AGx-Spike]

Kinetic ward spammable every 12 sec with 8 wards unlikely to be struck off in normal pvp situations. one of the highest force mitigation of any class. 3 additional proc defensive abilities including a permanent heal ability.

 

Not only that, their spamming of telekinetic throws/Lightnings have the ability to heal themselves, and slowing down their foes, adding to insane survivability along with massive dps and with Harnessed shadow up, it cannot be interrupted(another overpowered feature to a completely overpowered ability). They can stealth when needed, and can sprint when needed and kite when needed adding to survivability and an element of surprise. Jedi Shadows seems to be totally imbalanced, especially in PVP and I invite anyone of you who denies this to offer up a good counter to my arguments. Anyone who agrees please chime in as well. Jedi Shadow has too many useful utilities for PVP including with PULL, they have just about everything to counter everything on top of being the best pure tank in the game and second best self healer after healer classes, at least where PVP is concerned. Something seems to be horribly off with this picture.

 

A Jedi Shadow being able to out-tank, outrun, out stealth, out dps, out kite and able to out CCs and out self heals, on an above average level in the game. There's just seem to be no buffs that could bring any classes on par with a Shadow specced for PVP without breaking the game mechanics so the only option out it seems is to nerf Shadows -

 

A class that will be able to consistently get 300K+ dmg, and 100K+ healing in warzone matches along with being able to sprint stealth, pull, and tank like a madman, and score 55-0 in kills ratio very often, something is very very wrong with the balance here- guys - discuss with civility, any blatant fanboyism post or trolling, or off topic post will be reported.

 

For more reference of how overpowered a Shadow/Assassin could be in PVP, please visit this thread:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=336999

 

You're joking right? I have a 43 Guardian and 9/10 if a Shadow 1v1's my I win or they run away. It's damn near a fact that not every class can squash every other class. I can't beat a healer for the life of me on my Guardian (and vice versa). I'm not even going to say you're bad because it might just depend on your class but in most WZ's im in, its the Sages/Sorcerers and Sentinal/Marauder's who top the scores most in damage. Shadows/Assassins get up there sure but they are far from over powered. If you don't think so, play one and you'll see all those glaring weaknesses they have.