Jedi Shadow, Sith Assassin needs a big nerf soon.

[Skyliine]

Kinetic ward spammable every 12 sec with 8 wards unlikely to be struck off in normal pvp situations. one of the highest force mitigation of any class. 3 additional proc defensive abilities including a permanent heal ability.

 

Not only that, their spamming of telekinetic throws/Lightnings have the ability to heal themselves, and slowing down their foes, adding to insane survivability along with massive dps and with Harnessed shadow up, it cannot be interrupted(another overpowered feature to a completely overpowered ability). They can stealth when needed, and can sprint when needed and kite when needed adding to survivability and an element of surprise. Jedi Shadows seems to be totally imbalanced, especially in PVP and I invite anyone of you who denies this to offer up a good counter to my arguments. Anyone who agrees please chime in as well. Jedi Shadow has too many useful utilities for PVP including with PULL, they have just about everything to counter everything on top of being the best pure tank in the game and second best self healer after healer classes, at least where PVP is concerned. Something seems to be horribly off with this picture.

 

A Jedi Shadow being able to out-tank, outrun, out stealth, out dps, out kite and able to out CCs and out self heals, on an above average level in the game. There's just seem to be no buffs that could bring any classes on par with a Shadow specced for PVP without breaking the game mechanics so the only option out it seems is to nerf Shadows -

 

A class that will be able to consistently get 300K+ dmg, and 100K+ healing in warzone matches along with being able to sprint stealth, pull, and tank like a madman, and score 55-0 in kills ratio very often, something is very very wrong with the balance here- guys - discuss with civility, any blatant fanboyism post or trolling, or off topic post will be reported. Thread is now Updated!

 

 

Please learn how to play the game, and stop runing it for the ones that do.

 

Thank you ^.^

[bahugboto]

Please learn how to play the game, and stop runing it for the ones that do.

 

Thank you ^.^

 

Thanks for the bump. Keep the discussion going, will appreciate a non Shadow/Assassin player to chime in, the sooner this get fixed the better for the overall game balance.

Edited February 27, 2012 by bahugboto

[Technohic]

The way you reply makes me think you are still in school though.

 

Let me make this as basic as possible.

 

Shock is on 6 second CD. Wither is 7.5 seconds. Regardless of gear, you CANNOT decrease these cooldowns, needing 1 of the 2 to be used more than once to get 3 procs. So it is physically IMPOSSIBLE to do a 8 second rotation, with a 4 second channel skill. Please for the love of anything get this into your head. Stop IGNORING the GCD.

 

I am going to quote this as Talraen has been spot on.

 

Has it come down to force lightning being blamed on an assassin? Nevermind the fact you have to get the 3 stacks for it to heal; anyone with a brain that sees the lightning would use their push back right at that moment and the assassin winds up with a whopping 3% of health if they are lucky. Grant it; you can't always see it coming and already be targeting the assassin, but that would lend me to believe you are also fighting someone else and why would the assassin even bother getting the stacks otherwise?

[bahugboto]

I am going to quote this as Talraen has been spot on.

 

Has it come down to force lightning being blamed on an assassin? Nevermind the fact you have to get the 3 stacks for it to heal; anyone with a brain that sees the lightning would use their push back right at that moment and the assassin winds up with a whopping 3% of health if they are lucky. Grant it; you can't always see it coming and already be targeting the assassin, but that would lend me to believe you are also fighting someone else and why would the assassin even bother getting the stacks otherwise?

 

Apparently you didn't realize that each stack of harnessed shadow makes you immune to any interrupts on your pebles, i don't blame you for being a class bandwagoner which is why i am asking for non Assassin/shadows post, you just punch a feel more holes into why an Assassin needs a big nerf, yup their TT/lightning cannot be interrupted when specced correctly making them an immovable rock, if the DPS and outright heals isn't bad enough already, you can't interrupt it period.

Edited February 27, 2012 by bahugboto

[Technohic]

Apparently you didn't realize that each stack of harnessed shadow makes you immune to any interrupts on your pebles, i don't blame you for being a class bandwagoner which is why i am asking for non Assassin/shadows post, you just punch a feel more holes into why an Assassin needs a big nerf, yup their TT/lightning cannot be interrupted when specced correctly making them an immovable rock, if the DPS and outright heals isn't bad enough already, you can't interrupt it period.

 

Cannot be interrupted by interrupt abilities only can still be knocked down or pushed back which kills it; I know because I HAVE the spec; but I can see why you would want others who are not assassins to chime in because you want other people that don't know what they are talking about to chime in and support you not knowing what you are talking about.

 

Oh, and LOS (line of site for you since you probably don't know what I am talking about) kills it. Getting out of 10m range, kills it unless they use Recklessness which is on a 90 second cooldown which gives them 30, and usually gives more LOS options TBH. And by kill it, I mean you lose the harness darkness stacks and the damage/healing is not front loaded; it happens over time by 4 ticks. And, you need 3 stacks for it to hit for any worthwhile damage as each stack adds 25% damage.

 

I know you are a jug and therefore are not likely going to get out of range or LOS, but thats the way it is with a melee class that has to get in peoples face.

[subrosian]

Kinetic ward last for 20 secs with 8 wards, it means you can keep it up indefinitely hence its spammable, any abilities that could be casted before it's cooldown expire is considered spammable.

 

Kinetic Ward / Dark Ward is the Assassins second resource system. Unlike Juggs who get easy mode automatic mitigation, Assassins have to actively refresh their increased shield chance, and it can get used up or fall off.

 

Callng a buff spamable is laughable. I hope you are aware that most abilities in PVP bypass shield chance, making the easy mode Jugg have far better mitigation.

[bahugboto]

Cannot be interrupted by interrupt abilities only can still be knocked down or pushed back which kills it; I know because I HAVE the spec; but I can see why you would want others who are not assassins to chime in because you want other people that don't know what they are talking about to chime in and support you not knowing what you are talking about.

 

Oh, and LOS (line of site for you since you probably don't know what I am talking about) kills it. Getting out of 10m range, kills it unless they use Recklessness which is on a 90 second cooldown which gives them 30, and usually gives more LOS options TBH. And by kill it, I mean you lose the harness darkness stacks and the damage/healing is not front loaded; it happens over time by 4 ticks. And, you need 3 stacks for it to hit for any worthwhile damage as each stack adds 25% damage.

 

I know you are a jug and therefore are not likely going to get out of range or LOS, but thats the way it is with a melee class that has to get in peoples face.

 

By the time someone pushed you back(if they have the CD down) you already gotten at least 3k 2 ticks damage back with 1k hp healed, with interrupt being instantaneous and a short cooldown, it would have helped somewhat against an already overpowered ability, not to mention if your resolve is maxed, there is jack **** you can do against it, but that's just part of the problem, the ever bigger underlying problem is that the Shadow is a superior tank to the juggernaut with or without heals, a far better DPS and lock on DPS at that, never-mind that if the Assassin decides to kite, you are very much screwed out of a a hit every few seconds on top of the already huge dps differential. Add stealth, sprint, pull to the mix and you got a recipe that screams total imbalanced, as I said, it matters little in the future, because as PVP gets more competitive like in WOW, the imbalance should eventually be ironed out, like a Wow warrior that was insanely gimped in the beginning and buffed up later, I just preferred it happen sooner.

[bahugboto]

Kinetic Ward / Dark Ward is the Assassins second resource system. Unlike Juggs who get easy mode automatic mitigation, Assassins have to actively refresh their increased shield chance, and it can get used up or fall off.

 

Callng a buff spamable is laughable. I hope you are aware that most abilities in PVP bypass shield chance, making the easy mode Jugg have far better mitigation.

 

How is proccing a shield every 12 secs hard? Just because it takes one more click to have your quick cool-down shield arsenal proc actually that hard? Congrats you mastered the art of shield spamming and now awarded with the ultimate tank. Is Proccing Force immunity as you see a focus user pumped up with singularity is hard? hell you don't even need to proc any shield because you are virtually kiting the whole time and while healing your own *** the whole time, the shields for a shadow are just extra gravy to add to their already insane tanking abilities. A guardian with both shield ward have 3 mins cooldown on both abilities, that will hardly last them through a fight, not to mention 10-12secs duration(based on gears no one use) you are pretty much an unshielded junk the entire time, waiting to be kited all the way, and force freeze do not help much when your enemy can slow you at all times. Whatever you say a shadow is able to dole out 400K+ damage in pvp with ease along with 100K+ heals in warzones, if that doesn't scream overpowered, i don't know what is.

Edited February 27, 2012 by bahugboto

[Technohic]

Wait. 400k damage and how much healing? lol

 

Kiiting? With that impressive 10 meters? I mean, its possible but not sustainable and certainly not 400k damage sustainable.

 

I think you got 2 classes crossed again and many different specs..

Edited February 27, 2012 by Technohic

[Ainoa]

According to the OP, you play sin just by spamming all the spells you have at the same time, not regarding any GCD or energy issues. Easy win. This is the assassin ideal world.

Actually, I don't really like PVP, most of the time, I just play sin tank in flashpoints and operations. Even when AOE tanking, with a proper tank spec, right spell rotation, and pretty good avoidance stats that adds some energy regen through lightning reflexes, it may happen that I have to delay a shock or a force lightning using saber strike, that basically hits for nothing.

 

Yes, sin/shadow tanks do more damage than vanguard/pt and guardian/jug. And yes, when AOEing, they can compete "in numbers" with some dps specs in single target. But who cares about AOE damage ? Especially in PVP, where burst damage is so important (ask scoundrels/operatives).

 

One last thing, you just can't build 3 stacks of harnessed darkness from long range. You can't get out of nowhere, cast a ranged force lightning and self heal. You should be melee, so don't blame the class if you are not skilled enough to knock back.

There's one situation where you could be out of range, stun, sprint, and force lightning. A smart player should unleash, force charge and then knock back. One extra tick, less than 1k heal. Not a big deal for a proper specced, geared and skilled dps. Except for jugs/guardians, and if you were trying to say that these classes don't put enough damage, I totally agree, but that's another debate.

[prochuvi]

Kinetic ward last for 20 secs with 8 wards, it means you can keep it up indefinitely hence its spammable, any abilities that could be casted before it's cooldown expire is considered spammable.

 

are u new to mmorpg? spammable is when u can cast the same skill one time and other and other, so only skill with 0 recast are spammable,one skill with 12 sec that u can cast it before it is down isnt spammable, it is that u can refesh it.

and if u are crying for pvp plz shut up or learn to play,shield is useless on pvp because every class have atacks that bypass it.

the best tank for pvp is the jugernaut hands down.

Edited February 27, 2012 by prochuvi

[Antipathize]

How can any class be compared in pvp warzones when you have to take into account:

 

 

1) level - Are you a lower level? If so, it's likely you have less skills and less utility

 

2) spec - just because it has a double saber doesn't mean it's tank specced. It can use dark ward for the armor increase, but gimps its abilities if it's not darkness

 

3) gear - just because your stats are boosted doesn't mean you can take someone higher level than you, due to gear and expertise bonuses

 

4) skill - if you have a rotation, and it gets interrupted causing you to get all flustered and lose, doesn't mean the other class is overpowered. It means you don't know how to adjust to different situations and how to best apply your class. I usually top the warzones because I am a team player, guarding objectives, healers, interrupting opposing healers, tossing taunts, calling out inc.

 

5) situational awareness - its really likely you're getting debuffed, or ranged attacked by another class, or the tank has a pocket healer. The only person you might see is the tank, so you may just attribute all that damage and mitigation incorrectly.

 

The only time I get high damage is when I spam my aoe abilities, which do a whopping 500-800 damage (around 1k if I get lucky) per person, so it just pads my stats. It does lower accuracy and damage, which is why I use it.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Antipathize

[Infighter]

So many people saying that PvP tankassins do the same damage as their DPS counterparts... no, just no. Stop being terrible. The only reason PvP tankassins SEEM to do more damage is just because you can actually damage something without dying in 6 seconds when focused even by only one class. The burst and long-term DPS Deception has is so much better than Darkness (for obvious reasons).

 

You can notice this easily: fight an "average-ly" skilled healer and see how much annoyance you can give to your enemy as both spec. If you are Deception, you're actually doing a lot of burst and the healer will actually have to run/heal themselves/pop cds and ignore his "friends". If you are doing it as Darkness though... he'll be healing to full his DPS buddy, then go back to heal himself while you hit him for 2k energized shocks and 900 withers.

 

And you know what? This is TOTALLY fine. It's the way it's supposed to be. The two specs play in two different ways and two different roles... but don't tell me that Darkness does as much damage as Deception because that's simply NOT true.

 

On topic, I also think this is why Darkness is currently fine. They are very strong right now 1v1 after all the "fixed" and buffs they got... but not yet overpowered. They are still at a point where even one small buff will most likely give them too much though.

[-Fritz-]

i cant believe someone is complaining about kinetic ward.

 

they put an ability on your class you have to use every 12 seconds that does no damage and consumes your resources, and if you dont spend an action every 12 seconds on this ability your defenses are gimped.

 

this is one of the reasons i began to dislike my shadow as tank spec. that buff is just dumb, its wotlk version of holy shield... without the damage so its even more boring and sucky.

 

 

 

 

also the self healing of a shadow is not that spectacular. the amount healed from your stance is laughable and the one from talents requires 3 stacks prior to its use.. its not exactly what i would call "on demand".

 

 

 

 

i mean obviously people know more than me, but playing a vanguard is 100x more fun than playing a shadow.

[djmurloc]

As an assassin myself. (7 PVP cen/champion gear) I actually find myr damage bit weak. If I get lucky on crits then I can change the course of a battle quick. Anything extending past 12 seconds I'm prob dead. Everyone has heavier armor than me and I don't have a lot of defensive cool downs as a DPS. 1 actually.

 

Maul isn't that high damage and often when the PVP battles are little intense it's hard to figure out if I'm behind my target or not. Even then, it doesn't hit all that much harder than volt slash. Lot of energy drained too and for some reason.. Maul misses quite a bit. More than any other skill I have. I really can't go toe toe with any any other melee so I have to be quick.

 

I ESPECIALLY hate healers. It's sad but they can outheal my dps and b the time I'm wearing down their bubbles or mana pools usually a Trooper/BH takes me down pretty quick. They seem to do a lot more damage than anyone else save a good sorc.

 

To be realistic -- Assassins are not nearly as OP as you'd think. While I can still average 7-10 medals a battle, I usually have pretty low end damage. Most of the medals are from when I switch to dark and keep a shield on one of our healers. (3-4 medals right there). Not because I'm some ace pvper

[asmox]

yeah totally nerf kinetic/dark ward... an ability that stops almost zero of the skills people use in pvp.

[bahugboto]

are u new to mmorpg? spammable is when u can cast the same skill one time and other and other, so only skill with 0 recast are spammable,one skill with 12 sec that u can cast it before it is down isnt spammable, it is that u can refesh it.

and if u are crying for pvp plz shut up or learn to play,shield is useless on pvp because every class have atacks that bypass it.

the best tank for pvp is the jugernaut hands down.

 

Every attack, when you blatantly lie or exaggerate don't even bother to post, some of the Guardians and operatives most damaging abilities are white attacks, anyone apart from sorcs/sins relies quite heavily on white attacks and i am not even bothered to argue with you about spamming, stop spamming this post with invectives.

[bahugboto]

How can any class be compared in pvp warzones when you have to take into account:

 

 

1) level - Are you a lower level? If so, it's likely you have less skills and less utility

 

2) spec - just because it has a double saber doesn't mean it's tank specced. It can use dark ward for the armor increase, but gimps its abilities if it's not darkness

 

3) gear - just because your stats are boosted doesn't mean you can take someone higher level than you, due to gear and expertise bonuses

 

4) skill - if you have a rotation, and it gets interrupted causing you to get all flustered and lose, doesn't mean the other class is overpowered. It means you don't know how to adjust to different situations and how to best apply your class. I usually top the warzones because I am a team player, guarding objectives, healers, interrupting opposing healers, tossing taunts, calling out inc.

 

5) situational awareness - its really likely you're getting debuffed, or ranged attacked by another class, or the tank has a pocket healer. The only person you might see is the tank, so you may just attribute all that damage and mitigation incorrectly.

 

The only time I get high damage is when I spam my aoe abilities, which do a whopping 500-800 damage (around 1k if I get lucky) per person, so it just pads my stats. It does lower accuracy and damage, which is why I use it.

 

We are talking about warzones with end game gears here.

[Sqyre]

BioWare I keep getting owned at lvl 12 against lvl 49s in warzones. Nerf please and give me my BM gear in a single bag with a golden ribbon on it too. Also I want a pony. A rainbow pony with magical sparkle powers.

 

This game is unacceptable without magical sparkle ponies. And shave as many ewoks as you can contests.

 

 

Can I get a pony to!!!

[_Scattered_]

I will admit tank specced shadows are strong, however to say:

 

"Tank shadow have great dps AND are better tanks than Juggs"

 

Is just plain fallacy.

 

My kinetic shadow is geared for dps, he has nearly BiS gear, with ~1600 willpower. While he has guard utility he by no means is a tank, with <17k hp and 500 expertise outside of defence cds he has no more surviability than a merc or a dps PT. Sometimes I am not even wearing a shield.

 

Furthermore marauders, operatives, pyrotech PT's, pyrotech mercs and hybrid sorcs are all extremely powerful when played well.

[bahugboto]

I will admit tank specced shadows are strong, however to say:

 

"Tank shadow have great dps AND are better tanks than Juggs"

 

Is just plain fallacy.

 

My kinetic shadow is geared for dps, he has nearly BiS gear, with ~1600 willpower. While he has guard utility he by no means is a tank, with <17k hp and 500 expertise outside of defence cds he has no more surviability than a merc or a dps PT. Sometimes I am not even wearing a shield.

 

Furthermore marauders, operatives, pyrotech PT's, pyrotech mercs and hybrid sorcs are all extremely powerful when played well.

 

You can either gear for more dps or gear for more def, that's your choice, a guardian have the same choice, no difference, the only difference is a shadow is a superior standalone tank with better survivability, not to mention self heals. The class especially the one specced to harnessed shadow has too many useful utilities, in addition to the already overpowering useful specs compared to many of the useless or underwhelming abilities in the Juggernaut spec, either that or the rest of the class in the game needs serious retooling. I am saying that nerfing a shadow instead of radically buffing other classes will give the developers more room to maneuver in the future. For one instance, the heals from TT have to be reduced, the amont of reduction from kinetic ward should be reduced, or halved, the ability to resist interrupts from Harnessed shadow should be removed altogether, even that is just a start, more tweaks will probably be necessary as times go by, but these simple nerfs will at least get the shadow closer to balance, they will still be an overpowering tank/dps with too many useful utilities.

Edited February 28, 2012 by bahugboto

[_Scattered_]

You can't say shadow tanks have both high dps and are the best tanks because that is impossible, it requires 2 different gear sets. Any shadow you come across will not have great dps and great tanking, he will have one or the other or something in between.

 

Just because the same tree allows for two different play styles doesn't imply something is unbalanced, rather that particular tree is more interesting.

 

If you really looked closer at the mechanics of tanking you would realise guarded healers is the main problem. And if guarded healers weren't so strong then it would not even be viable for a dps geared kinetic to even use guard.

 

Besides Juggernaut's make for better tanks, this isn't even up for debate. The reason why Juggernauts are weak is because they can barely break 100k in a wz. Their damage is low that is the only thing that is wrong with them.

 

As I have said, kinetic shadow are strong, however you are seeing and fighting lots of them because our other trees are not very good. In comparison rare specs/classes are strong as well, how many well played pyro mercs, pyro pt's, operatives, cc hybrid sorcs and marauders have you actually faced?

 

You may say otherwise (because everyone thinks they are l33t) however my guess is very few. It sound like you play a jugg, and I am all for a buff to jugg tanking tree. However the healers plus the the above mentioned classes are all very powerful. What remains is Juggs and snipers which I do think need buffs.

[TheRedNalroni]

Darkness - Dark Ward

Not actually useful in PVP as the amount of mods required means that on average with 20 defence you still block only 40% of the time to take only 70% of the damage. Its not fantastic considering the sacrafice to dps is horrendous. at 1.5 second global cooldown is a reduction of 30% damage only vs 1 person, but every additional person beyond 1 does 100% damage, for the major sacrafice in itemisation. In PVP only worth for 1v1 fights and even then its debatable as you lose all burst damage that the assassin relies on to kill.

 

Deception:

The Nature of the Assassin class is Burst damage in 1v1 situations. 1v1 Is very rare in Warzones. Outside of the first 15 seconds of combat, if the assassin has not killed its target in a 1v1 situation must rely on a 2 minute cooldown to escape. So about 78% of the time in a warzone the assassin is ineffectual. In combat.

No Stealth openers and cooldowns unavailable = dead assassin

 

 

I currently pvp with Darkness

Lightening does on average 600-800 damage per ticks (4 ticks) Can be interrrupted - yes even with the talent ive been interrupted many a time, it just stops the faster channel when taking damage. Knockback and abilities such as jolt or kick, knockdows do actually break it and requires another 10 seconds of combat to build up another 3 harnessed darkness and still lack the bonus from wrecklessness. Often only used when the wrecklessness is up and 3 stacks of harnessed darkness (3 shocks- considering cooldown this is a long time in combat). Yes it heals but not an incredible amount, especially when it can be disrupted losing the 3 stacks of harnessed darkness and wrecklessness cooldown - Force lightening becomes poor and the heal pitiful. (ANd thats with Full battlemaster modded for crit.

 

Slow is only through an ability Force slow, our lightening doesnt apply a slow like that from the Sorcerers Force lightening. Most classes get a slow.

Spamming force Lightening is terrible. Horrendous ineffectual and LOL.

Its by no means anywhere Tracer Missile.

 

We cannot stealth when needed. The amount of time you in pvp can use the heal to full ability every class gets is how often we can stealth. We cannot stealth in combat. If any of our team mates are in combat it often keeps us in combat. We need to rely on Force cloak to quickly stealth which is on a 2 minute cooldown. Dots and bleeds from Marauders take us out straight away, unlike the awesome stealth although limited time they receive but with abilities such as charge and terrain can often be more successful at evading that Assassins.

Assassin to stealth must also use Force shroud, Force speed to escape. This is because the nature of Force means the longer the fight the less chance of surviving, where as with maraduers, the continued build up of rage or focus continues to provide sustained dps.

As fights prolong, the success of the assassin deteriates and often falls in favour of other classes.

 

Force pull high on the Darkness tree as well. Best pure tank? Youve never fought a Vanguard tank or powertech?

 

Mobility? We have no ranged abilities beyond 10 feet with the exception of force lightening once every 2 minutes which should be kept for 3 stacks of harnessed darkness... We have to run around terrain, cant leap up to the target to engage in melee, and get kited knock backed from most ranged classes. Leaving us vulnerable and dead before we get to the target without stealth.

2nd best self healer? I come out of a game with barely 15000 heals doing 112000 damage on average from a good game in which i can apply most dps. I have 17000 health, in a 20 minute game thats barely a full health bar.

 

Wont comment about Shadow, I was understanding it was a missor to the Darkness specced assassin of which you are referring mainly about.

300k damage? erm not a chance with darkness of which your referring to with Force pull and Dark ward.

 

300k yes with Madness as you just dot every target you see with 2-3 dots. Its a boring tab dot tab dot class of which is squishy and dead very quickly unless a one on one in melee as they seriously do a lot of damage - it is after all a dps tree in comparison to the Tank Darkness tree.

 

The Assassin your are refferring to here with these abilities must be level 75 to actually have Force pull dark ward (and seriously if theyre using that theyre not anywhere shield more than 15% of the time for a reduction of 10% damage if they want to pull off 300k damage.

 

 

 

In the end I already feel in most Warzones Im ready to reroll to Marauder with their survivability, Mobility and awesome damage output all in one tree.

 

I suggest never ever call for a nerf on a class until you have spent the time playing one and pvping with it to Battlemaster level and certainly know and understand it and where its abilities come from.

 

If they nerf assassin any more, I will be rerolling to a ranged class or certainly a Marauder. If not deleting the game i have 22 days played on Assasin alone.

[bahugboto]

Darkness - Dark Ward

Not actually useful in PVP as the amount of mods required means that on average with 20 defence you still block only 40% of the time to take only 70% of the damage. Its not fantastic considering the sacrafice to dps is horrendous. at 1.5 second global cooldown is a reduction of 30% damage only vs 1 person, but every additional person beyond 1 does 100% damage, for the major sacrafice in itemisation. In PVP only worth for 1v1 fights and even then its debatable as you lose all burst damage that the assassin relies on to kill.

 

Deception:

The Nature of the Assassin class is Burst damage in 1v1 situations. 1v1 Is very rare in Warzones. Outside of the first 15 seconds of combat, if the assassin has not killed its target in a 1v1 situation must rely on a 2 minute cooldown to escape. So about 78% of the time in a warzone the assassin is ineffectual. In combat.

No Stealth openers and cooldowns unavailable = dead assassin

 

 

I currently pvp with Darkness

Lightening does on average 600-800 damage per ticks (4 ticks) Can be interrrupted - yes even with the talent ive been interrupted many a time, it just stops the faster channel when taking damage. Knockback and abilities such as jolt or kick, knockdows do actually break it and requires another 10 seconds of combat to build up another 3 harnessed darkness and still lack the bonus from wrecklessness. Often only used when the wrecklessness is up and 3 stacks of harnessed darkness (3 shocks- considering cooldown this is a long time in combat). Yes it heals but not an incredible amount, especially when it can be disrupted losing the 3 stacks of harnessed darkness and wrecklessness cooldown - Force lightening becomes poor and the heal pitiful. (ANd thats with Full battlemaster modded for crit.

 

Slow is only through an ability Force slow, our lightening doesnt apply a slow like that from the Sorcerers Force lightening. Most classes get a slow.

Spamming force Lightening is terrible. Horrendous ineffectual and LOL.

Its by no means anywhere Tracer Missile.

 

We cannot stealth when needed. The amount of time you in pvp can use the heal to full ability every class gets is how often we can stealth. We cannot stealth in combat. If any of our team mates are in combat it often keeps us in combat. We need to rely on Force cloak to quickly stealth which is on a 2 minute cooldown. Dots and bleeds from Marauders take us out straight away, unlike the awesome stealth although limited time they receive but with abilities such as charge and terrain can often be more successful at evading that Assassins.

Assassin to stealth must also use Force shroud, Force speed to escape. This is because the nature of Force means the longer the fight the less chance of surviving, where as with maraduers, the continued build up of rage or focus continues to provide sustained dps.

As fights prolong, the success of the assassin deteriates and often falls in favour of other classes.

 

Force pull high on the Darkness tree as well. Best pure tank? Youve never fought a Vanguard tank or powertech?

 

Mobility? We have no ranged abilities beyond 10 feet with the exception of force lightening once every 2 minutes which should be kept for 3 stacks of harnessed darkness... We have to run around terrain, cant leap up to the target to engage in melee, and get kited knock backed from most ranged classes. Leaving us vulnerable and dead before we get to the target without stealth.

2nd best self healer? I come out of a game with barely 15000 heals doing 112000 damage on average from a good game in which i can apply most dps. I have 17000 health, in a 20 minute game thats barely a full health bar.

 

Wont comment about Shadow, I was understanding it was a missor to the Darkness specced assassin of which you are referring mainly about.

300k damage? erm not a chance with darkness of which your referring to with Force pull and Dark ward.

 

300k yes with Madness as you just dot every target you see with 2-3 dots. Its a boring tab dot tab dot class of which is squishy and dead very quickly unless a one on one in melee as they seriously do a lot of damage - it is after all a dps tree in comparison to the Tank Darkness tree.

 

The Assassin your are refferring to here with these abilities must be level 75 to actually have Force pull dark ward (and seriously if theyre using that theyre not anywhere shield more than 15% of the time for a reduction of 10% damage if they want to pull off 300k damage.

 

 

 

In the end I already feel in most Warzones Im ready to reroll to Marauder with their survivability, Mobility and awesome damage output all in one tree.

 

I suggest never ever call for a nerf on a class until you have spent the time playing one and pvping with it to Battlemaster level and certainly know and understand it and where its abilities come from.

 

If they nerf assassin any more, I will be rerolling to a ranged class or certainly a Marauder. If not deleting the game i have 22 days played on Assasin alone.

 

Another denial thread, try fighting on switsure PVP warzones where the pvp is at a very high level and see which class ends up with over 12 medal and highest kill ratio most of the time then come back and talk, anyways i can punch holes into every one of your flawed, and bias argument playing down the shadow's abilities, but i have already done so many times in my previous post, and dont need to do so again.

Edited February 28, 2012 by bahugboto

[bahugboto]

You can't say shadow tanks have both high dps and are the best tanks because that is impossible, it requires 2 different gear sets. Any shadow you come across will not have great dps and great tanking, he will have one or the other or something in between.

 

Just because the same tree allows for two different play styles doesn't imply something is unbalanced, rather that particular tree is more interesting.

 

If you really looked closer at the mechanics of tanking you would realise guarded healers is the main problem. And if guarded healers weren't so strong then it would not even be viable for a dps geared kinetic to even use guard.

 

Besides Juggernaut's make for better tanks, this isn't even up for debate. The reason why Juggernauts are weak is because they can barely break 100k in a wz. Their damage is low that is the only thing that is wrong with them.

 

As I have said, kinetic shadow are strong, however you are seeing and fighting lots of them because our other trees are not very good. In comparison rare specs/classes are strong as well, how many well played pyro mercs, pyro pt's, operatives, cc hybrid sorcs and marauders have you actually faced?

 

You may say otherwise (because everyone thinks they are l33t) however my guess is very few. It sound like you play a jugg, and I am all for a buff to jugg tanking tree. However the healers plus the the above mentioned classes are all very powerful. What remains is Juggs and snipers which I do think need buffs.

 

Juggs and snipers need buffs, juggs need a heavy revamp to their defensive viability and both need more force attacks because the current balance damage mechanics and mitigation types completely throw the game off balance but Shadow need a dead serious nerf, i know a broken mechanic when i see one. Like i said harnessed shadow must be nerfed completely, remove the invulnerability to interrupts, reduce heals from 3-2%, that's a good start. Next since the round the clock shielding of Kinetic ward is so bad like some of these folks claim, we remove that as well or set it's cooldown to 1 minute or something, and see how these same players cry over how unbelievably good having a shield up that could mitigate white damage almost 60% of the time is. Anyone who think this is not one of the most powerful shields in the game in combination with force invulnerability is lying to himself. It's a constant shield and since it's so bad lets make it have a minute cooldown and see how you cope without it. The only class that i could see giving a Sin tank a run for it's money are the dps Sorc class because virtually all it's damage are force attacks. But still a shadow could probably still handily win with the right strats. And it's always viable for DPS kinetic to use guard, only a rather newbie player will think otherwise, not being harsh with you but the 3 protection medals are almost always in the bag for a top tier warzone shadow tank, the 50k is rarer because the shadow tanks are too busy chasing their dps medal, and healing medal to bother with guarding all the time, besides ruining their stealh.

Edited February 28, 2012 by bahugboto