Give me a legitimate reason to NOT have a LFD tool.

[Shadowkai]

ABSOLUTELY 100% not needed in this game.

 

ABSOLUTELY 100% FALSE.

 

A server-wide (not x-server) tool is absolutely needed. Don't use it if you don't want to.

[Pink_Saber]

ABSOLUTELY 100% FALSE.

 

A server-wide (not x-server) tool is absolutely needed. Don't use it if you don't want to.

 

This is just flat-out wrong on multiple levels. I'd lay them out, but I think it's already been done a couple hundred times in this thread.

[darkcerb]

This is just flat-out wrong on multiple levels. I'd lay them out, but I think it's already been done a couple hundred times in this thread.

 

One more wont hurt really, try "It's optional, if your current method of getting a group is endangered it is only because people prefer the tool to your method."

[Progue]

And 2 dps.

 

no, noone takes anything from anyone.

 

X people enter the queue. Y groups leave.

 

This is the core of your mistake; you're looking at server wait times when that doesn't exist in a cross server queue. So averaging the values in that situation doesn't actually produce a meaningful number.

 

That's your problem: there's no such thing as a "wait time per server", because there isn't a server queue. There's only a wait time per group, or a wait time per person.

 

The average wait time in queue A is 15 minutes; 4 groups form every hour

The average wait time in queue B is 20 minutes; 3 groups form every hour

The average wait time in queue C is 30 minutes; 2 groups form every hour (edit: typo)

The average wait time in queue D is 6:40 minutes; 9 groups form every hour

 

 

the per person wait time is directly proportional to the group wait time.

 

 

 

 

The average wait time, per group on server A with a single server queue is 15 minutes

The average wait time, per group on server B with a single server queue is 20 minutes

The average wait time, per group on server C with a single server queue is 30 minutes

 

The average wait time per group, for the combine server queue, is ~6:40.

 

two cases

 

First case: 3 servers, single server lfg tool

server A: average wait time is ~15 minutes; so it forms a group every 15 minutes, on average, or 4 groups of people every hour.

server B: average wait time is ~20 minutes; so it forms a group every 20 minutes, on average, or 3 groups of people every hour.

server C: average wait time is ~30 minutes; so it forms a group every 30 minutes, on average, or 2 groups of people every hour.

Average wait time across servers = 20 minutes.

best average wait time across server= 15 minutes.

 

second case: 3 servers, cross server lfg tool.

Same people queuing

9 groups of people form every hour.

average wait time across servers = 6.7 minutes (also the best case)

 

I notice you never responded to my post fourth from the bottom of page 42 regarding this matter.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2832329#post2832329

[Monorojo]

It seems like a lot of people are speaking from the imp side where there are 300+ in the fleet at any time.

 

I am representing the other side, and on my server on weekdays we do not get over 100 in the fleet. Using the current LFG function is completely and utterly unsuccessful on every single occasion. I need atleast one hour to find a group, then a i need another hour to actually complete the flashpoint. This is not streamlined, I am unable to do anything else that builds my toon like finish those gray quests i cannot get out of my quest tracker.

 

A LFD tool is absolutely necessary. Without one, many people like myself would never be able to take part in any PvE. I have been unable to find a HM FP group for the past 2 weeks. I have been actively looking. The community on my server is practically dead as is, atleast give us a tool so we can see the content.

[Gungan]

In the meantime, the entire game seems to be full of people who actively refuse to group for anything, and there's no effective LFG tool for people who do want to group to find eachother.

[harpuax]

ABSOLUTELY 100% FALSE.

 

A server-wide (not x-server) tool is absolutely needed. Don't use it if you don't want to.

 

The operative word here is NEED. It is not needed, the fact that people are finding groups without it proves that. If you can down a boss and I can't is a nerf needed? or do I need to fix something I am doing wrong?

[ferroz]

I notice you never responded to my post fourth from the bottom of page 42 regarding this matter.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2832329#post2832329

that links to the top page 11. We're currently on page 17.

 

If you have something you want me to respond to, either quoted it, or re-post it. but referencing it by position on a particular page is useless.

Edited February 15, 2012 by ferroz

[Trolltar]

I Would prefer to start with a tool similiar to the old WOW lfg tool. It would show who was looking for what and you would have a game wide LFG channel to talk in. That way its easier to find groups but you're actively participating in forming your group and choosing who you play with. If after a few months finding groups is still next to impossible then you move to the current WOW system but not cross server. If that doesn't work then you bite the bullet and go cross server. I like that SWTOR keeps most of the experience contained to just the server you're on and I would like to try to maintain that before going full out and adopting a cross server LFG tool.

[ferroz]

The operative word here is NEED. It is not needed, the fact that people are finding groups without it proves that.

This isn't an objective argument against it in any way.

 

NEED is nothing but a red herring. People want it.

 

Now, an argument could be made that the game needs it in order to be successful. The fact that some people find groups without it does not actually say anything about whether the game needs it to be successful.

 

But that's totally off topic to what this thread is about.

 

If you can down a boss and I can't is a nerf needed?

Not enough info provided.

 

not that this has any relevance.

Edited February 15, 2012 by ferroz

[Shadowkai]

The operative word here is NEED. It is not needed, the fact that people are finding groups without it proves that. If you can down a boss and I can't is a nerf needed? or do I need to fix something I am doing wrong?

 

Well sure. You don't NEED a UI to manage your inventory either. They could make that happen all via console commands.

 

Sure is nice to have a drag and drop though, right?

 

It's freaking ridiculous to argue against a server-wide tool. The current system isn't working for a lot of players, so why advocate AGAINST a nice NON-X-SERVER tool? I don't get it.

[Senatsu]

False. Lots of people will continue to get groups the same way they are now: invite 3 guildies or friends, and invite people they get through chat. Just like they do in wow.

 

No, you'll still be able to find groups, get into flashpoints, get gear, and get into raids. It's optional.

 

I did. i think I even pointed out that it was baseless speculation.

 

Inviting a few friends, click a button and get instantly teleported to the instance with a random or two is NOT the same. Did you think that sentence through?

 

No, you won't be able to find groups if you refuse to use the LFD tool, since people can't be bothered running to the instance and getting a full group. If they could get a full group that easily, why would they complain about it so much?

 

 

So my opinion over a 7 year WoW career, watching that game deteriorate into a button mashing loot fest without any feel of doing something worthwhile and even close to rewarding for your "hard" effort is baseless?

 

Logic is non-existent in this one.

 

Well sure. You don't NEED a UI to manage your inventory either. They could make that happen all via console commands.

 

Sure is nice to have a drag and drop though, right?

 

It's freaking ridiculous to argue against a server-wide tool. The current system isn't working for a lot of players, so why advocate AGAINST a nice NON-X-SERVER tool? I don't get it.

 

We aren't against a server-wide tool, just a simple global LFG chat channel would do the trick. We're against the ridiculous notion of putting in a system that does EVERYTHING for you, without trying to make things better with simpler tools that helps the mentality of players instead of destroying it.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Senatsu

[Blotter]

*** in fleet there is 2438572394857239045782345 players but just im in the lfg.

 

That would be the players' faults then, wouldn't it? Maybe...and this is a totally radical far-out whacky thought...if people spent more time trying to get others to use the tools available to us instead of ignoring their existence or forum-spamming that they are total crap (when really they aren't), it would have resolved itself by now. Instead, we get forum spamming that there's NOTHING to help look for groups, almost nobody encouraging peopel to use what's there, and people demanding that BW hold their hand and give them a tool that does all the grouping work for them so they don't have to actually lift a finger to make a group and can avoid interacting at all with the rest of the community. This one's on the players, not BW.

[Progue]

that links to the top page 11. We're currently on page 17.

 

If you have something you want me to respond to, either quoted it, or re-post it. but referencing it by page is useless.

 

It links me to the proper post. I'm not sure what's happening, here. Must be a technical problem.

 

Here is the post

I disagree with your method, here.

 

When you add servers to the same queue, you increase the population size in the queue. So, if there is a 1000 players per server, that means 3000 players total need groups. That 9 groups/hour is now tackling three times the number of players, which means it is only as good as 3 groups per hour on one server, which was your median average. All the LFD tool does is even out the waiting times across all servers. This means it will never be very good or very bad, just so-so.

[SkyAid]

The operative word here is NEED. It is not needed, the fact that people are finding groups without it proves that. If you can down a boss and I can't is a nerf needed? or do I need to fix something I am doing wrong?

 

Maybe YOU don't need a LFG. But I do and so do LOTS of people. You don't want to use it - fine, nobody forces you to use it.

 

Also, comparing a LFG tool against content difficulty is /facepalm. And anyways your analogy breaks down - if you can't down a boss on NM, try hard, if you can't do it on hard, try normal. There is currently no LFG tool.

 

PVP gets an LFG tool, so should PVE. Right now, the convenience level for PVP is so high that the PVE group content is simply ignored.

[harpuax]

A LFD tool is absolutely necessary. Without one, many people like myself would never be able to take part in any PvE. I have been unable to find a HM FP group for the past 2 weeks. I have been actively looking. The community on my server is practically dead as is, atleast give us a tool so we can see the content.

 

And suppose you can't get through the content. Will you then want a tool to do that for you too? Where does this end and where do the devs draw the line? This is what happens when you start down this slipper slope.

 

Now I am in favor for a tool that helps people find groups, but not in favor of one that does ALL the work for you. The difference here is a Tool vs Automation.

[darkcerb]

Well sure. You don't NEED a UI to manage your inventory either. They could make that happen all via console commands.

 

Sure is nice to have a drag and drop though, right?

 

It's freaking ridiculous to argue against a server-wide tool. The current system isn't working for a lot of players, so why advocate AGAINST a nice NON-X-SERVER tool? I don't get it.

 

Because it'll still be useless for low pop servers and republic side anywhere.

 

A better compromise is a toggle allowing for the tool to only search from your server.

 

But you don't want that do you? Why? because you know full well the majority would stick to going cross server.

[Agenteusa]

A LFD tool is absolutely necessary. Without one, many people like myself would never be able to take part in any PvE. I have been unable to find a HM FP group for the past 2 weeks. I have been actively looking. The community on my server is practically dead as is, atleast give us a tool so we can see the content.

 

Wait... you´re saying that your server is dead at the time you play and that you can´t find a group to do FP´s. So how exactly would LFD help you in this situation, I mean, is the server really dead or you´re saying the fleet is empty?

 

Have you tried joining a guild? I´m asking this just to know, not meant to be a critic.

 

I do think it´s stupid not having a Server wide LFG channel. And like I said before wouldn´t shock me immensely to have a server LFD. x- server is out of the question imo, been there done that, no thanks.

[Niyenna]

In the meantime, the entire game seems to be full of people who actively refuse to group for anything, and there's no effective LFG tool for people who do want to group to find eachother.

 

There already is a mechanism for people to find other people, regardless of their location or current activity. A LFG tool is for people who expect groups to spontaneously form.

[Progue]

that links to the top page 11. We're currently on page 17.

 

If you have something you want me to respond to, either quoted it, or re-post it. but referencing it by position on a particular page is useless.

 

I apologize. It links me to the proper page, I'm not sure why it doesn't work for others. Anyway, here was my post:

 

"I disagree with your method, here.

 

When you add servers to the same queue, you increase the population size in the queue. So, if there is a 1000 players per server looking for group, that means 3000 players total need groups. That 9 groups/hour is now tackling three times the number of players, which means it is only as good as 3 groups per hour on one server, which was your median average. All the LFD tool does is even out the waiting times across all servers. This means it will never be very good or very bad, just so-so."

[darkcerb]

And suppose you can't get through the content. Will you then want a tool to do that for you too? Where does this end and where do the devs draw the line? This is what happens when you start down this slipper slope.

 

Now I am in favor for a tool that helps people find groups, but not in favor of one that does ALL the work for you. The difference here is a Tool vs Automation.

 

And then he'll want a level 50 instantly button!

 

Lets not start the alarmist escalation technique of debate shall we? it makes no logical sense.

[Shadowkai]

Because it'll still be useless for low pop servers and republic side anywhere.

 

A better compromise is a toggle allowing for the tool to only search from your server.

 

But you don't want that do you? Why? because you know full well the majority would stick to going cross server.

 

I've never advocated a x-server tool. I've only ever asked for an Aion style server-wide LFG tool.

[Trolltar]

I think the current LFG tool would be much more widely used if it wasn't zone specific. I really think the right first step is for a server wide channel and list of who's lfg and for what.

[harpuax]

Maybe YOU don't need a LFG. But I do and so do LOTS of people. You don't want to use it - fine, nobody forces you to use it.

 

Also, comparing a LFG tool against content difficulty is /facepalm. And anyways your analogy breaks down - if you can't down a boss on NM, try hard, if you can't do it on hard, try normal. There is currently no LFG tool.

 

PVP gets an LFG tool, so should PVE. Right now, the convenience level for PVP is so high that the PVE group content is simply ignored.

 

Why do you NEED it and I don't, are we not playing the same game?

 

What if you can't down a boss on normal mode? where do you go from there?

 

There is a LFG tool. Not a great one but it is there. PvP has LFG automation not a LFG tool.

[Senatsu]

I've never advocated a x-server tool. I've only ever asked for an Aion style server-wide LFG tool.

 

That I can live with, and I actually love that tool. Perfect compromise between WoW's LFD and SWTOR's current system.