Give me a legitimate reason to NOT have a LFD tool.

[Senatsu]

lol

 

WoW lost suscriptions because people got bored of it. Warcraft itself as a franchise, died with Arthas, and what came after is just filler content which tried to recreate the mess Burning Crusade was, then Add Kung Fu Panda and Pokemon as an ultimate attempt to keep more people playing the game.

 

People may hate the LFG in WoW, but it's far from being THE cause for 1.8M of the playerbase to quit the game.

 

It's certainly not the primary cause for the decline, far from it, but it didn't exactly help.

[Agenteusa]

I might add that you don´t even need the LFD tool to see what the outcome will be if it is implemented.

 

Oh yeah , its already present in something called.... Warzones.

 

It´s already happening, side loses one base or objective, 3 or 4 leave.

 

That´s no different from what will happen with such tool.

 

Having to wait for a group makes you have a little mpre respect for the players involved.

 

To sum it up , LFD is a tool to catter for the dps specced where they can be atrociously idiotic with no consequences.

 

And to answer the thread topic : The legitimate reason is to have a respectful and at least somewhat friendly "community" instead of a community filled with folks that sit in a place waiting for a window to popup and abusing others only looking at them as a tool to achieve means.

 

If not having a screwed up community isn´t a legitimate reason I don´t know what might be then.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Agenteusa

[Quip]

It's certainly not the primary cause for the decline, far from it, but it didn't exactly help.

 

Actually WoW added 2,000,000 subs after they added cross server LFG.

 

They lost those subs when they listened to the wannabes and made their heroics harder for cataclysm (even though it was actually the gear reset that did it). That act made it hazardous to use the LFG and that's what cost them some subs. Though I believe most of those lost subs were because of the shrinking content Blizzard was releasing.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Quip

[darkcerb]

but what your saying is wrong, since wow put the LFG into the game they have lost subs

 

fact

 

last year seen the worst drop in wow subs ever.. 1.8 million in one year thats massive.

 

before LFG wows subs were on the rise, now there dropping

 

Since wow hit the 7 year mark it's lost subs.

 

Fact.

 

Your ability to recount facts is impressive.

 

Since wow announced mists of pandafest it's lost subs.

 

Fact.

 

Since I made this post wow has lost and gained subs!

 

Fact.

 

This could be a fun game! What facts can you come up with people playing at home?!

 

Just thought of another fun fact, since rift added a lfg system it's sub numbers have risen!

Edited February 15, 2012 by darkcerb

[DarthKhaos]

I might add that you don´t even need the LFD tool to see what the outcome will be if it is implemented.

 

Oh yeah , its already present in something called.... Warzones.

 

It´s already happening, side loses one base or objective, 3 or 4 leave.

I've brought this up and ofcourse they ignored it. Because you have no vested interest in the groups who cares right? Well wrong because there are those who don't like looking for new members every 5mins. The sad part is that the ones who leave are generally the ones causing the problem and refuse to listen to suggestions to make things better.

 

I entered a Huttball match. Score 0-2 with a little over 8mins left. Looked like about 3 people left and myself and 2 others were drafted in. So I'm thinking damn the other team could play and this is gonna be a loss. The score ended 6-2 and we won. I'm scratching my head after the match. The other team sucked so why did those people leave thinking the match was hopeless?

Edited February 15, 2012 by Wekeltes

[Covinusis]

I might add that you don´t even need the LFD tool to see what the outcome will be if it is implemented.

 

Oh yeah , its already present in something called.... Warzones.

 

It´s already happening, side loses one base or objective, 3 or 4 leave.

 

That´s no different from what will happen with such tool.

 

Having to wait for a group makes you have a little mpre respect for the players involved.

 

To sum it up , LFD is a tool to catter for the dps specced where they can be atrociously idiotic with no consequences.

 

And to answer the thread topic : The legitimate reason is to have a respectful and at least somewhat friendly "community" instead of a community filled with folks that sit in a place waiting for a window to popup and abusing others only looking at them as a tool to achieve means.

 

If not having a screwed up community isn´t a legitimate reason I don´t know what might be then.

 

 

Sorry but some people have life to deal with that work 8+ hours a day and have children to put to bed and have maybe 1-2 hours to play a night before having to head to bed themselves.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Notannos
rude

[RocNessMonster]

No it doesnt there were many people that had 4 hour kick timers. You know nothing about it if you think it reset every dungeon. I also believe it was account wide so if you kicked on onw alt you had the timer on your other alt.

 

Let's not forget the personal kick timer, after so many kicks you cant be kicked for hours no matter what kind of ******e you are.

[Jult]

This is the whole "I worked hard for my lewts" and "casual gamers shouldn't have the same level of gear as I do" thing. It's actually a ridiculous discussion. If they implement LFG/LFR or whatever you call it, the Elitest DON'T HAVE TO USE IT. problem solved. If you are a hard core gamer, then you will be running Nightmare modes and will be ahead of everyone else.

[Alientex]

wow is successful but wow community is tired of WoW, and every year is some new alternative. That's why it looses subscribers. Even if the new games are bad, "New is always better" you can say.

 

There are alternatives, and so far games like Rift / Age of Conan / Aion and many more took some % of player base. Mostly not for long time, as new games proved to be not as good as wow (6-7 years development ahead, what else can be said).

 

LFG system was from my point of view great improvement. I wasn't limited to spam general channel or wait for my guild mates. 1 Click and here is my new companions.

 

PvP system works that way, why not PvE ?

[DarthKhaos]

This is the whole "I worked hard for my lewts" and "casual gamers shouldn't have the same level of gear as I do" thing. It's actually a ridiculous discussion. If they implement LFG/LFR or whatever you call it, the Elitest DON'T HAVE TO USE IT. problem solved. If you are a hard core gamer, then you will be running Nightmare modes and will be ahead of everyone else.

For me it is nothing about that. I really don't care if everyone in the game has better lewt than me and took less effort to get it. What I'm concerned about is what happens when this type of system is implemented. Also if you had a list of say 20 players 3 tanks 4 healers and 13 DPS (you are one of the dps) ALL wanting to go to the exact same flashpoint you want to can you or can you not form a party quickly? For me the answer is "Hell yes!" For some of the people in this thread the answer is "That's too much work."

 

As far as I'm concerned, with an attitude like that, they don't really want to find a party.

[Agenteusa]

Sorry but some people have life to deal with that work 8+ hours a day and have children to put to bed and have maybe 1-2 hours to play a night before having to head to bed themselves.

 

Just for the info I don´t have children but I normally work 10+ hours a day.

 

And frankly, meaning no disrespect and no offense(clearly the opposite of what you tried to do), if you don´t have the time available maybe you´re better off with another type of game that doesn´t demand as much time.

 

No problem in that, I stayed away from mmo´s for almost 2 years simply because I didn´t have time in my life for them.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Notannos
rude quote

[Agenteusa]

This is the whole "I worked hard for my lewts" and "casual gamers shouldn't have the same level of gear as I do" thing. It's actually a ridiculous discussion. If they implement LFG/LFR or whatever you call it, the Elitest DON'T HAVE TO USE IT. problem solved. If you are a hard core gamer, then you will be running Nightmare modes and will be ahead of everyone else.

 

And you sir, you really like to derail the topic being discussed atm right?

 

I don´t need gear anymore as I´m full rakata but that´s not the point like you´re trying to make it.

 

If you want to add something please do, if not don´t post OT stuff.

[Agenteusa]

LFG system was from my point of view great improvement. I wasn't limited to spam general channel or wait for my guild mates. 1 Click and here is my new companions.

 

PvP system works that way, why not PvE ?

 

If you go up a couple of topics you´ll notice it. Yes pvp works like that and groups lose 2-3 people in the first min of a Warzone because of the "I don´t give a damn" mentality that group generators brings imo.

[Jult]

For me it is nothing about that. I really don't care if everyone in the game has better lewt than me and took less effort to get it. What I'm concerned about is what happens when this type of system is implemented. Also if you had a list of say 20 players 3 tanks 4 healers and 13 DPS (you are one of the dps) ALL wanting to go to the exact same flashpoint you want to can you or can you not form a party quickly? For me the answer is "Hell yes!" For some of the people in this thread the answer is "That's too much work."

 

As far as I'm concerned, with an attitude like that, they don't really want to find a party.

 

I would agree, but also know its absolutely the most ridiculous thing to wait for 45min to find a healer to run with your group, or that 4th person.

 

The other day I was hanging out in the fleet, you know, for 2 hours being a dps waiting for a group to join for a hard mode. When I saw a post LFM DPS HMs. I jumped on it, thinking I wasn't typing fast enough. They invited and my two hour wait finally came to an end. They said they have had difficulty finding a DPS all night. I was like WHAT? I've been here for 2 hours reading chat, doing shout outs. They were off in Ilum doing dailies and some pvp, doing shout outs there.

 

Point is, no one wants to hang out in one area to communicate with everyone else for something as trivial as finding another member to run a flashpoint with.

[Senatsu]

For me it is nothing about that. I really don't care if everyone in the game has better lewt than me and took less effort to get it. What I'm concerned about is what happens when this type of system is implemented. Also if you had a list of say 20 players 3 tanks 4 healers and 13 DPS (you are one of the dps) ALL wanting to go to the exact same flashpoint you want to can you or can you not form a party quickly? For me the answer is "Hell yes!" For some of the people in this thread the answer is "That's too much work."

 

As far as I'm concerned, with an attitude like that, they don't really want to find a party.

 

I agree. I really don't care if people get the better gear than me, faster than me. What I do have a problem with, is the mentality change that will corrupt every player and ruin a chance for this game to become a helpful, interesting and fun community to be part of discussions and sharing thoughts with. WoW is exactly the type of **** that we don't need. anyone who played during vanilla and TBC knows exactly what happened to player mentality when LFD was introduced.

 

I'm not saying LFD was the primary antagonist in this, but it was one of the big guys.

[PjPablo]

I agree. I really don't care if people get the better gear than me, faster than me. What I do have a problem with, is the mentality change that will corrupt every player and ruin a chance for this game to become a helpful, interesting and fun community to be part of discussions and sharing thoughts with. WoW is exactly the type of **** that we don't need. anyone who played during vanilla and TBC knows exactly what happened to player mentality when LFD was introduced.

 

I'm not saying LFD was the primary antagonist in this, but it was one of the big guys.

 

Not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying WOW became more 'elite' after LFD?

[Senatsu]

Point is, no one wants to hang out in one area to communicate with everyone else for something as trivial as finding another member to run a flashpoint with.

 

Your entire 2h (kinda hard to believe tbh) wait could have then be solved with a global LFG chat channel, without the need for an LFD system.

 

Not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying WOW became more 'elite' after LFD?

 

Not exactly elite, maybe more douchey and lazy since they didn't feel the need to put any effort into the group, so they didn't help anyone if they saw they had a problem. In WoW, I regularly see people leaving if we wipe on a 5 person heroic dungeon boss, instead of saying "The ability called Don't Stand In This Or Else You'll Die will kill you if you stand in it".

Edited February 15, 2012 by Senatsu

[DarthPAWS]

If you go up a couple of topics you´ll notice it. Yes pvp works like that and groups lose 2-3 people in the first min of a Warzone because of the "I don´t give a damn" mentality that group generators brings imo.

 

so true or the people standing in the edge of the map not helping or just playing for themself and not help to get the door or gun for the team or defend it just trying to get there points.

 

 

ya i really want that for even more team heavy PVE content lol (fyi i do play pvp about 50% of the time) no thanks:mad:

 

IN pvp sure its almost requirement for people to do that in todays world lol

 

let the PVP side of the game do the lfd/g auto group its more a PVP game tool anyway really.

 

leave the PVE old school(or close to it) for now the game is to early for it maybe when its older we can look into then.

 

everything shouldnt be the same then whats the point of making anything new. so we can play the same game but ones jedi and one is pandas .

[corbanite]

I agree. I really don't care if people get the better gear than me, faster than me. What I do have a problem with, is the mentality change that will corrupt every player and ruin a chance for this game to become a helpful, interesting and fun community to be part of discussions and sharing thoughts with. WoW is exactly the type of **** that we don't need. anyone who played during vanilla and TBC knows exactly what happened to player mentality when LFD was introduced.

 

I'm not saying LFD was the primary antagonist in this, but it was one of the big guys.

 

It does give a mentality change to a number of people. This then infects and grows more especially when they see that abusing x-realm LFD works. XR-LFD promotes selfishness and single player gaming. This is why it is detrimental to the community.

 

Why should I try and get a group together when I want first boss in x dungeon for y loot he drops. That only means I get a bad rep on my server for being a self centred idiot when I dump the group once boss is down.

 

Far easier with LFD to just sign up as a tank and dump the group once the first boss is down and rinse and repeat until I get the drop I am after.

 

 

This is just an example.. also goes for needing on companion gear.. which I have yet to see in any of my groups but do not dispute that some people do it.

 

Join a guild.. hell join my guild.. I have 2 tanks at present both geared for hardmodes I have no problem running you through stuff nor does anyone else in our guild.. We are happy to come on and do our thing solo.. as soon as three of us are on we group up and start running hardmodes often drafting in a random DPS.

 

Seriously join a guild.. I don't care if one of our players goes AFK while they look after their child for 5-10 mins.. as long as it does not happen every time.. we all appreciate real life happens.

 

We all get on vent.. we have a laugh.. we enjoy ourselves. we play a game together. WoW does not have this nor does it foster it.. It's all go go go.. charge in TC.. aoe spam.. next pack.. nuke nuke nuke... loot... logout.

 

Those of us in our guild who get to play more help those who play less. If your guild does not do this then either form your own because plenty of people like to play like this or find one.

[ispanolfw]

Where did I do that?

 

Oh, you must be talking about that place where you thought I was taking an average of 3 numbers, but wasn't...

 

 

No, I said that my opinion is that I'm highly in favor of having a choice; I was disagreeing with the assertion that the reason I was asking for it is that I desperately needing the tool to find groups (since the latter isn't true).

 

No I actually said that

 

I didn't say that this is the reason that I'm in favor of an lfg tool. Just remarking on what I assume when someone says a particular statement.

 

I don't suppose you can actually quote that, eh?

 

I won't go into the math of the wait time, since the wait time isn't really the part you were blundering.

 

IIRC it was 3 servers, 2 groups per hour, 3 per hour and 4 per hour. You did some math on wait times if they were singular and grouped with a Cross Server queue. Wait times, can't be calculated so easily first of all due to length of the run and other such info.

 

But the real issue? Both situations had 9 groups per hour. Both.

Edited February 15, 2012 by ispanolfw

[GalacticKegger]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=224095

[ferroz]

If an LFD tool gets put in, no one will go through the same process as they do now to get a group. Just like in WoW.

False. Lots of people will continue to get groups the same way they are now: invite 3 guildies or friends, and invite people they get through chat. Just like they do in wow.

 

Therefore, you won't find a group -> won't get into FPs -> won't get gear -> won't get into raids. How is that optional?

No, you'll still be able to find groups, get into flashpoints, get gear, and get into raids. It's optional.

 

If you look at my previous explanation as to how the mentality of players will change <snip>

I did. i think I even pointed out that it was baseless speculation.

 

My raidteam is filled with people who has troubles locating the "W" key in the heat of the moment, the healers suck monkeyballs as they can heal when they have to move a bit to the side to avoid fire = they either stand in fire and heal, or they don't heal and hold down the "W" key for 0.5 seconds. Sad, I know, but there you go.

Likewise.

 

I was comparing the difficulty of normal mode Lich King to normal mode Deathwing.

Yes, and as I said: blizzard has changed it so that normal modes are now supposed to be easy and that the challenge is now in the hard modes only.

 

I doubt I need to experience raids before I'm "qualified" to have an opinion on a tool that will be specific to Flashpoints.

You were expressing an opinion that the game was in a perfect place with regards to difficulty; that's more than just a statement about flashpoints, so your opinion on that topic (overall game difficulty) isn't really all that meaningful since you aren't already doing raids.

 

I'm purely looking at exactly how the LFD tool in World of Warcraft works, not what type of changes, limitations, additions or options that BioWare might put into it.

That's more than a little absurd; if you base your arguments on that, you can't actually offer a valid counter argument a lffp tool in swtor, since there's no reason to make that assumption.

[zarnakrider]

How about a lfDungeon system but a lobby style ? I know its gonna kill community and it was opposite of mmorpg* but just think about that. It can be fast and easy

(and dont kill me please)

Edited February 15, 2012 by zarnakrider

[Blotter]

We have a LOOKING for group tool. Is it what yuo want or does it function in the manner youwant it to? I guess not.

 

Wha people seem to want isn't really a LOOKING for group tool, but rather an AUTO-GROUPING tool that does every little bit of the work for them automatically. Then they don't have to interact with anyone, talk to people, be social, etc. It's an excuse for avoiding being a real part of the community.

[zarnakrider]

We have a LOOKING for group tool. Is it what yuo want or does it function in the manner youwant it to? I guess not.

 

Wha people seem to want isn't really a LOOKING for group tool, but rather an AUTO-GROUPING tool that does every little bit of the work for them automatically. Then they don't have to interact with anyone, talk to people, be social, etc. It's an excuse for avoiding being a real part of the community.

*** in fleet there is 2438572394857239045782345 players but just im in the lfg.