GreymaneAlpha Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) I have leveled two healers in game, a trooper and a consular. I have had no issues ''targeting'' players who need healing, or their companions. It's rather simple really. You click on the face of the target you want in the group window, player or companion. Could it be improved? Yes, it would be nice to be able to click anywhere on the frame, not just on the face. Need to heal a player? Click his/her face or raid frame. Need to heal a companion, click his/her face or raid frame. I don't see the issue here. You can't get much easier than that. If your trying to click on them in the play window, then your just wrong to begin with. Your making it 10x harder than it is. Healing is SWTOR is about as easy as it gets... Even if you had a ''healbot'' equivalent, you would still be doing the same thing for the most part. No. It's not simple. Play PvP. Try to figure out which person on your team has the huttball, when 8 people are running around each other in circles 30 yards away, three levels below you, and you can't actually read their names because they have their character's nameplate set as something like "Jedi Master Hugely'long Giganticness'name". Are you telling me that in the entire time you leveled two characters you NEVER noticed how awful the targeting system was? That tab didn't give you the enemy you expected? That trying to click on enemy to Force Lift him was more difficult than it should be?! Did you pay attention at all?! Edited February 21, 2012 by GreymaneAlpha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oyusan Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Sign and agree. It is difficult and sometimes nearly impossible to target especially in a big fight on a Warzone or Ilum. ------------------------------------- Also, I hate all that garbage (warzone map/status) from the screen from the Warzones too. It covers up the top of my right quickslot bar. I wish all that unnecessary crap could be turned off... and I can't seem to find any settings that would do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulViolence Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Especially as a healer, it is insanely difficult to target people that need heals. Since you can't click on nameplates (why?) and tab (or ctrl-tab for friendlies) is ridiculously unreliable and has the great habit of targeting people BEHIND YOU, it really seems like this game's PvP is as much about trying to target the right people as it is actually fighting. And obviously, I would much prefer to actually play against opponents instead of fighting with the UI. This game very, very badly needs an improved tab-target system (no, 'target nearest enemy' is not sufficient) and badly needs the ability to target people by health bars / nameplates. Well the lead combat designer is gone, now who else do we need to get rid of to make this game better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreymaneAlpha Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Sign and agree. It is difficult and sometimes nearly impossible to target especially in a big fight on a Warzone or Ilum. ------------------------------------- Also, I hate all that garbage (warzone map/status) from the screen from the Warzones too. It covers up the top of my right quickslot bar. I wish all that unnecessary crap could be turned off... and I can't seem to find any settings that would do so. I often forget about the silliness of that map covering up your right ability bar. Of course, at least that should be fixed eventually we they deign to give us a "customizable" UI in 1.2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreymaneAlpha Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Well the lead combat designer is gone, now who else do we need to get rid of to make this game better? Oh oh. I want to fire whoever decided that this game should have "cinematic combat", which leads to awesome things like "my instant cast force wave has a 2 second cast time and can be interrupted"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreymaneAlpha Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 Bump for my continual hatred of tab-target Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concession Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Healers need love BW- lucky I've gotten used to the broken system. Just healed in a WZ and in full champion gear got 430K heals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juanxlink Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 But WZ heal aint that hard, main issue is when you are not grouped. As long as the raid frames are there click targetting works "most" the times. FOR A BETTER TARGETTING SYSTEM, HEALING AND DAMAGING!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocturnalis Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Awesome thread OP. I can't tell you how frustrating it is in PvP to tab target. I have to go as far as pan the camera so that the only the person on screen is visible and that doesn't even work 100% of the time. Now I just Esc key > target to get the nearest. but it SUCKs in it's current state. BW fix this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratzky Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 This game has so many issues its insane. Broken engine, targeting is broken as the major ones. The first one i mentioned is enough to kill the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreymaneAlpha Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 This game has so many issues its insane. Broken engine, targeting is broken as the major ones. The first one i mentioned is enough to kill the game. Yeah, totally agree. But the targeting should be a much easier 'fix' than an entire engine, right ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llenyd Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Another thing I hate about the "target next enemy" is that it doesn't cycle correctly. Instead of 1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 1 -> 2 -> 3 It often cycles as 1 -> 2 -> 1 -> 2 -> 3 It's just one more symptom of the overall design flaw of the UI: everything takes multiple clicks/keypresses when one should suffice. The UI of this game is like having to pump the clutch five times to get your car into gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teslorian Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 unsubbed over this issue and others like it to be fair. Healer for 6 years in another MMO. Used Grid nearly that entire time. It is enough that you need to move in response to the environment and manage the right heals at the right time/cooldowns and cc. Healing can and should be one click. One is enough and if this game cannot allow me to heal properly I have to go play one that will. As long as the ui isn't suggesting a heal or a heal target this is where the line should be drawn. like the ORIGINAL healbot used to many many years ago in Molten Core Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskaan Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 unsubbed over this issue and others like it to be fair. Healer for 6 years in another MMO. Used Grid nearly that entire time. It is enough that you need to move in response to the environment and manage the right heals at the right time/cooldowns and cc. Healing can and should be one click. One is enough and if this game cannot allow me to heal properly I have to go play one that will. As long as the ui isn't suggesting a heal or a heal target this is where the line should be drawn. like the ORIGINAL healbot used to many many years ago in Molten Core Grid is simply amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valtrim Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The issue of what changes to the healing UI are needed or desirable depends a lot on whether or not the devs intend to include targeting time as a factor in PvE and PvP difficulty. For PvE, this is manageable since they directly control the rate at which damage is dealt: if they don't want to reach the incredibly high-speed healing that was required in WoW's Wrath expansion, they can leave damage relatively slow and not change the UI much. The real problem, as others have pointed out, is PvP. There is no easy way to predict PvP damage, so being able to respond as a healer in one motion rather than two is highly desirable. For this reason, I'd very much like to see mouseover macros added. It doesn't need to be Healbot (which is really just Grid + Clique for people who don't want to spend a lot of time configuring add-ons), although clearly displaying status ailments would be good, as well. Perhaps others experiences raid healing in WoW differed from mine, but I'm not aware of any decent raid healers that didn't use raid frames and mouseover macros or equivalent add-ons to heal. Targeting with a keyboard simply isn't practical when you have 25 potential targets, any of which might need healing at the drop of a hat. In TOR, your mileage may vary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concession Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 unsubbed over this issue and others like it to be fair. Healer for 6 years in another MMO. Used Grid nearly that entire time. It is enough that you need to move in response to the environment and manage the right heals at the right time/cooldowns and cc. Healing can and should be one click. One is enough and if this game cannot allow me to heal properly I have to go play one that will. As long as the ui isn't suggesting a heal or a heal target this is where the line should be drawn. like the ORIGINAL healbot used to many many years ago in Molten Core Love how you say another MMO and then you mention GRID which 1st appeared in WoW lol. Just call it the way it is- you played WoW for 6 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atanasov Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 A bad tab target has put me in many interesting situations Its a feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaKnuckles Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) I seem to have probs with this as well... for instance on SOA his hit box is so large that trying to target something near him or even mind traps you cannot always click on them and target nearest enemy sometimes doesn't work at all it just keeps targeting the boss even when you're standing right on top of a mind trap and the boss is in the center of the area. Also, when I'm fighting mods if I use target closest or next enemy it sometimes targets a friendly party member. Another thing if you use the setting to auto target nearest it will most of the time pick a mob across the room instead of the one beating on you. Instead of having it choose the one you're facing it should choose the one nearest like the setting says. Total fail! Edited February 23, 2012 by DaKnuckles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreymaneAlpha Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 I seem to have probs with this as well... for instance on SOA his hit box is so large that trying to target something near him or even mind traps you cannot always click on them and target nearest enemy sometimes doesn't work at all it just keeps targeting the boss even when you're standing right on top of a mind trap and the boss is in the center of the area. Also, when I'm fighting mods if I use target closest or next enemy it sometimes targets a friendly party member. Another thing if you use the setting to auto target nearest it will most of the time pick a mob across the room instead of the one beating on you. Instead of having it choose the one you're facing it should choose the one nearest like the setting says. Total fail! I'm not sure I've ever really had target next enemy target a party member.... Nonetheless, tab-target in PvE for DPS classes is still a very problematic in this game. It's not quite as bad as tab-target in PvP, simply because stuff moves a little more deterministically and generally has bigger targeting 'hitboxes', but it's still an issue that needs to be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreymaneAlpha Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 good thing Target of Target comes out in 1.2 Target of Target will help in some ways. It would fix or alleviate the problem with tab-target, though. Or the inability to target by clicking on nameplates/healthbars above character's heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 And what if u want to heal some poor guy fighting who is not in your group? Pls tell me cant wait to hear your answer! That never occurred to him because he's bad and never does it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Target of Target will help in some ways. It would fix or alleviate the problem with tab-target, though. Or the inability to target by clicking on nameplates/healthbars above character's heads. But it won't be truly useful to healers until mouse-over targeting comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreymaneAlpha Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 But it won't be truly useful to healers until mouse-over targeting comes. I would do very bad things for WoW's macro system in this game, especially as a healer. Mouseovers are just so much more natural feeling, in addition to being faster and more reliable. Harm-vs-help contexts would help cut down on so much of the ability bloat, especially for hybrid classes. Hell, even modifier macros would be amazing, for things like self-target and focus-target. All of these, obviously, are what any serious, competitive player should expect from an MMO to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreymaneAlpha Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 Bump-slash-necro for my unyielding hatred of the awfulness of tab-target. Seriously--how is it SO BAD. It's not even a question of adapting to a different system (though a system in which tab prioritizes targets IN FRONT OF YOU would be nice), it's that the existing tab system just feels bafflingly random and unintuitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCBull Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Major problem here that we have learned to deal with. Please improve the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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