If your An Empire player, DO you actually like the Empire?

[Fiachsidhe]

I like the Empire. Atleast when they're *******es they go up front about it.

 

 

Unlike the Republic.

 

 

--Spoilers--

 

--Spoilers--

 

--Spoilers--

 

You know, like BELSAVIS

 

 

 

 

 

I'd rather have the *******es who admit they're *******es so I can be on guard, then to have that happen to me without warning.

 

Belsavis is THE stupidest thing I've seen in this game ant is blows me away at how desperate Bioware's writers were to show some corruption on the Republic side just to take the edge of the accusations of being good all the time that Erickson wandered into the "*** were you smoking" category he seems to spend a fair amount of time in.

 

REALLY? A hidden penal colony? How is that even possible? and forcing children born there to inherit their parents' sentences? ***??!? Not to mention how children are born there. I haven't seen any women. Erickson is an awful writer.

[Arrys]

Belsavis is THE stupidest thing I've seen in this game ant is blows me away at how desperate Bioware's writers were to show some corruption on the Republic side just to take the edge of the accusations of being good all the time that Erickson wandered into the "*** were you smoking" category he seems to spend a fair amount of time in.

 

REALLY? A hidden penal colony? How is that even possible? and forcing children born there to inherit their parents' sentences? ***??!? Not to mention how children are born there. I haven't seen any women. Erickson is an awful writer.

 

1 word guantanomo. And my operative teamed up with a female slicer there. The evils "good" societies breed to fight "evil". If such an intergalactic conflict existed it would seem a very likely occurance. Locking down a whole planet is easier than segmenting a portion of a planet. Just like isolating an island is easier than having a facility in upstate NY.

[Dranzen]

No I hate Empire, I only play them so I can finish my Ilum Daily in 20 minutes and weekly in 3 hours. Poor Republic.

 

Fixed that for, ya.

 

My main is a Republic, but the attitude of the NPCs on the Empire side is so much more interesting.

[chakkar]

1 word guantanomo. And my operative teamed up with a female slicer there. The evils "good" societies breed to fight "evil". If such an intergalactic conflict existed it would seem a very likely occurance. Locking down a whole planet is easier than segmenting a portion of a planet. Just like isolating an island is easier than having a facility in upstate NY.

 

What is so evil about Guantanamo? I dont see the comparison.

[Bodewell]

I'm an alt-oholic anyway, so I play both sides and RP a bit, mostly in my own mind.

 

I've got a psychotic Sith Sorceror (modelled on an ex , an Empire first, Sith 2nd Juggernaut, an ex-military Jedi Sentinel, etc....

 

I like both sides storylines, but lets face it- it is fun to be bad every once in a while...so yeah, I like playing Empire.

[sian_gali]

Nope, I loathe the empire. I am only Sith because the guild(s) I wanted to play with from previous games went Sith. I would much prefer to be republic and cannot fathom the server disparity. In SWG there were tons of rebels on my server, in no way were we the under dogs. I was so surprised to see so many imps in swtor!

I am often teased in mumble for my grumblings about the crappy things I am doing as a sith. I am no goody two shoes but dude, some of the quests are awful. ex- Kill the entire village of non combatants to teach the republic a lesson. No thank you, I have never needed xp that bad.

[Keellz]

For three months leading up to launch I wanted to be a jedi. Then my brothers in law decided they wanted to roll a BH at the last minute. In real life I'm all about trying to spread good will. I love my fellow human beings and I wish this were a better place for is all. But in the end thats all we are, human. And no matter what kind of person you THINK you are, we all have a darkside.

[CptBrit]

NIce response.

 

I see some flaws though. THe Sith think of Imperials as nothing more than tools that serve their will.

 

If you read the Novel "Revan" (Written by lead writer for TOR) , you'll find out that the Emperor has been planning his invasion of the republic for hundreds of years. He will not only stop wtih defeating the republic, he want to defeat the entire galaxy and destroy everything. He has no issues with killing billions of his own people. He has already done it in order to become Emperer. In addition to every living thing on his planet, he killed and ate all the sith of his time. So its not a question of getting back the the republic, it is his desire to have power.

 

The Germans began bombing London in 1939, after years of suffering bombing the allies decided to fight fire with fire. Nothing wrong with that. There is no moral equivalence here, as the germans did it for years. Dresden would not have been bombed if the germans did not use this tactic in the first place.

 

THe Sith EMpire always does bad things first. There is nothing wrong with responding in kind (if the sith do it, they should expect the favor to be returned). Its not as if the Republic all of a sudden one day decided to slaughter millions of civillians for for the sake of power.

 

The people have been manipulated into wanting to fight the republic because that is the propaganda they are told. What else are they to believe. Any disinters are harshly dealt with.

 

The average Imperial Citizen is nothing more than a second class citizen there to serve the will of the various sith and ultimately the Emperor.

 

Not to say that there aren't good people in the Empire, I've run across quite a few while playing my BH, its just that overall it is evil. People do not know the whole story. Do you think the average citizen knows that the Emperor killed billions of people on his planet in order to become immortal? In fact, in the book "Revan", some of the Sith were afraid that he was going to do the same thing to Dromund Kaas.

 

Sorry I do understand that the Empire is in a completely blunt usage of the words "More Evil" than the Republic and that the Emperor is without a doubt totally and utterly "Evil", but the great majority of the Sith and all of the average Imperials don't know about what he did (And definately don't know what hes planning no spoilers but play the JK story lol) and see the war with the Republic as revenge for them been wronged hundreds of years ago.

 

The Germans didn't actually purposefully start bombing London til after we'd bombed them, the first strike on London was actually an accident the Bomber crew had got lost and because London was in Blackout mode they just released their bombs so they could get back to Germany quicker and Churchill been the complete bad *** that he was thought sod it and bombed Germany, it was a token attack nothing too damaging (Unlike what the UK/US did later in the war) but it showed that we could and so Hitler started the Blitz

 

Still that they do the "Bad things first" can be attributed to propaganda and passed down hate. The "They nearly wiped us out, lets show them the folly of not finishing the Job" its in the depths of every humans mind. Imagine everyone you've ever loved, laughed with, drank with wiped out it doesn't matter how justified they were to attack, genocide is never the right retaliation in war and you can guarantee your going to pass on that hate to your offspring if there is nothing you can do about it at the time.

 

Just like what the Republic is doing on Ord Mantell? they aren't the warriors of the people they are putting down a popular uprising, kind of like Gaddaffi tried to, the Empire is in laymans terms NATO on Ord Mantell. I'm not saying the Empire is doing it out of the goodness of their hearts they would be getting a favourable government in power but still the Republic is by no means "Good" in this situation.

 

I agree fully that the Empire - on a whole, there is room for good - treats the common man as at best a lesser being, at worst scum.

 

I myself play a Lightside Bounty Hunter as my main, their is room for good in the Empire but backstabbing etc are just so ingrained into the society that it just can't be popular to be a good from a lore/fluff point of view.

 

I understand that as a whole the Republic is more "Good" and the Empire more "Evil" but both sides have some fault in this current war.

Edited February 14, 2012 by CptBrit

[Urko]

I like the Empire cos im evil muwhahahaha

[CptBrit]

Heh, our own democratic system is starting to drift toward the hugely bureaucratic, highly corrupt, largely inefficent system that India has. Not quite there yet but definitely inching towards it. From a Star Wars standpoint, the Republic (whether it is the SWTOR time line or prequal trilogy time line) is already there.

 

In contrast, Singapore is ruled by a hybrid system with popularly elected officials but maintaining highly authoritarian characteristics due to its single party nature. Some international NGOs such as Freedom House doesn't even consider Singapore to be a electoral democracy. Yet, Transparency International consistantly ranks it among the least corruption nations in the world with its citizens enjoying a standards of living level surpassing most developed western nations. Funny how reality plays out when naive democratic ideologies (or political ideologies in general) are kept in check by common sense.

 

This is one thing Western Politicians must lose somewhere between sessions in brown nosing and lying.

 

UK Politicians: Guess what we don't see the need for an Aircraft Carrier for at least the next 9 years... So to save money lets scrap it.

 

Argentina starts getting more aggressive and in Libya it hits the fan.

 

Conclusion: UK Politicians lacked the Common Sense see that throwing the baby out with the bathwater water was not the best idea, Also the Country could have saved some money on Jet Fuel if they'd had an Aircraft Carrier.

 

EU Politicians: Right everyone as we know Greece lets people retire shortly after leaving school, thus they pay people pensions for what seems like an eternity. You know what would be a good idea? Lets bring them into the Euro! They will add some much! /Trollface

 

I pray that an Honest Politician will be born (In my lifetime) hopefully hes British and becomes PM but I doubt it.

[Concession]

I'm a darwinist so yes i'm an Empire player at heart.

The stonrg rule and the weak are meant ot be ruled.

 

it's natural.

 

 

/shrug

 

 

Dark V for my Sith Sorc

[archifikoss]

Disregard... Edited February 14, 2012 by archifikoss

[CptBrit]

That's not exactly how it is here. Nice try though.

 

I will give you that the whole public sector is rotten and rife with corruption and nepotism, there's no denying that... But please post actual facts instead of gibberish about a nation you don't understand.

 

You aren't very good at reading sarcasm are you I know they don't retire shortly after school. Don't public sector workers retire in their 50s? and private sector workers retire later? No I don't know the "whole" facts, I've gotten the gist of why they are skint you know with how its been all over the news for months.

Edited February 14, 2012 by CptBrit

[archifikoss]

You aren't very good at reading sarcasm are you I know they don't retire shortly after school. Don't public sector workers retire in their 50s? and private sector workers retire later. No I don't know the "whole" facts, I've gotten the gist of why they are skint you know with how its been all over the news for months.

 

Ugh, sorry mate, I'll edit out my post. I'm very touchy because frankly I wake up with a horrible knot in my stomach every day out of uncertainty for my job, my safety and my country's very existence... It sucks

 

And BTW... Better get this back on track about the empire! RL politics should not be involved in this thread (or any thread!)

Edited February 14, 2012 by archifikoss

[gurugeorge]

I'm a darwinist so yes i'm an Empire player at heart.

The stonrg rule and the weak are meant ot be ruled.

 

it's natural.

 

 

/shrug

 

 

Dark V for my Sith Sorc

 

Darwinism has nothing to do with the concept of anything being "meant". What actually happens, what exists, in and of itself, has no moral value whatsoever, it is we that give things moral value, just as we give them economic value (e.g. by finding a use for them, and by having individual scales of preferences).

 

The flaw Sith philosophy shares with all other forms of "social Darwinism" is in attempting to derive "ought" from "is".

 

Things do evolve such that a certain type of fit exists between organism and environment; but that doesn't even touch the question of whether things ought to evolve such that there's a fit between organism and environnment.

[Concession]

Darwinism has nothing to do with the concept of anything being "meant". What actually happens, what exists, in and of itself, has no moral value whatsoever, it is we that give things moral value, just as we give them economic value (e.g. by finding a use for them, and by having individual scales of preferences).

 

The flaw Sith philosophy shares with all other forms of "social Darwinism" is in attempting to derive "ought" from "is".

 

Things do evolve such that a certain type of fit exists between organism and environment; but that doesn't even touch the question of whether things ought to evolve such that there's a fit between organism and environnment.

 

Totally wrong on all counts.

 

You evolve to survive and thrive.

In order to thrive competition must be wiped out in almost EVERY single case. Rarely if ever will competition tolerate each other- even at the cellular level.

[kristoffbrujah]

Not really. But the Republic seems just as flawed organizationally. Where the Empire has infighting and cruelty the Republic has weakness and corruption.

 

The Jedi should never have bound themselves to a political body like the senate. They should be the ones ruling like the Sith do.

 

Let me ask you, who would you rather have lead you into war? Some doofus senator or Darth Marr?

Edited February 15, 2012 by kristoffbrujah

[Embrosil]

Well after playing a smuggler and a trooper to lvl50 I tired to roll an imperial agent. The first planet, Hutta, was fine, but then I started to hate it. I mean I get light side points for poisioning a whole slaves settlement? Someone must be kidding. So now I have a choice to roll a Jedi and do again 99% of quest I have already done twice, somehow try to like the Imperium or stop playing. None of these choices is good, is it? Edited February 15, 2012 by Embrosil

[Zyforb]

Being a character that is pure evil is very interesting to me.

 

That said, no; the Empire is, indeed, pure evil. So while I enjoy PLAYING Empire very much, I would sooner die than support something like them in real life.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Zyforb

[Rantank]

I have no problem with Empire. The Imperial quests make it very clear that the Republic are just as morally corrupt as the Empire. In many cases their intent starts out being ok, however their corruption destroys it and allows the Imperials to take them down. On top of that, if you play through the Empire quests, some of the planets aren't very flattering to the Republic. There are times you see Empire quest givers being surprised that the Republic have done what they did, and that they even thought of a particularly heinous act before the Imps did.

 

So while Sith are openly playing power games and come over as childish serial killers half the time, the Republic, really aren't much better, just better organised and conceal their monstrosities better. Individuals might rise above that, but I'm not sure they can pitch a tent on the high moral ground.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Rantank

[Gradivus]

I’m playing an agent, and I can say that the weakest link of the Empire are definitely the Sith. The Empire is a very tightly controlled militaristic society, where ranks and absolute obedience guarantee supreme efficiency, far greater than that of the Republic. And then there is one caste of people who are allowed, moreover - expected to, behave like spoilt richkids who can do what they want and don't get punished for breaking that expensive vase. What's worse - this caste happens to be the ruling caste of the Empire.

If all the efficiency and coordinated work achieved by the rest of the Empire is always nullified by the pathetic overblown egos of the Sith and their powerplays, the Empire is doomed to fail.

 

PS - to answer the initial questin - I like the Empire and how it funtions. Basically all the sociaty is build like a military. And no military in the real world is democratic, it wouldn't work if it were. But I hate the Sith, because they are stupid. And weak.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Gradivus

[Carbonated]

I play empire because I am a fan, empire strikes back being my fave of the trilogy, and I actually have to say count dooku my favourite character over all 3.

[Cordelia]

Darwinism has nothing to do with the concept of anything being "meant". What actually happens, what exists, in and of itself, has no moral value whatsoever, it is we that give things moral value, just as we give them economic value (e.g. by finding a use for them, and by having individual scales of preferences).

 

The flaw Sith philosophy shares with all other forms of "social Darwinism" is in attempting to derive "ought" from "is".

 

Things do evolve such that a certain type of fit exists between organism and environment; but that doesn't even touch the question of whether things ought to evolve such that there's a fit between organism and environnment.

 

Someone who actually understands, Natural selection just is. It has no moral attachment, that is something misguided humans have used to explain away monstrous ideas like Eugenics.

 

It's about being perfectly adapted to suit the niche you fill. Competition with other organisms is part of the driving force, but environment would be the major factor. It certainly isn't about trying to destroy every other living thing around you. Indeed, many organisms rely on each other even going so far as to form symbiotic relationships.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Cordelia

[khelladan]

well, i'm a huge fan of the imperium of man in the warhammer 40.000 universe. and i'm a huge fan of the one psyker who brought together the whole of mankind and conquered the stars. the imperium of man may be a totalitarian, fashistic regime, but it is the only way to ensure the survival and expansion of the human species.

 

also, i quote numerous posts before mine, they get the job done. as does the empire in swtor. and i am proud to be a sith lord and i choke whomever i please.

 

the only thing i am missing is the fleet's incapability of exterminatus. that would be the icing on a wicked cake.

[ArmchairMagpie]

Let me start off by saying that I am an Empire player, a Bounty Hunter more specifically. I DOn't RP much but If I did I could justify this by saying that I am just in it for the money, but then I guess that answer would be morally corrupt as well.

 

The Empire kills people just because. In instances where they could be spared and taken as prisoner, they just slaughter them. More troubling is the fact that the Empire routinely kills its' own loyal people. IN some of the quests, they have killed their own. In many of the books they have killed their own, for example:

 

"Death StAR" ***SPOILER***

 

IN the novel "death star" the newly constructed death star was ready to test its main gun. Tarkin just nonchalantly decided to test it out on the prison planet which they were orbiting. He didn't bother evacuating the millions of prisoners....or even the Imperial personnel down on the planet. Just bam, the planet was gone.

 

In another instance related to SWTOR, From the novel "Revan":

 

"Revan" ****SPOILER****

 

The Emperor, the Emperor in TOR, rose to power by summoning all the Sith Lords to his home planet and then he consumed them to gain their power (YES, HE ATE THEM!). He then through some ritual absorbed every living being on the planet into him to gain immortality, Billions of people.

 

Not someone I'd want to be loyal to.

 

Do any other Imperials feel uncomfortable with this? Yes, I realize its just fiction. If I hadn't looked forward to playing a Bounty Hunter for the past four years I'd definitely rather play on the Republic side.

 

First off these two event are from different eras. If you want to pick an example then let's stick at least at the era we are currently in.

 

So do I like the Empire of that era my characters are currently in? My characters do.

See that's the issue with growing up in an authoritarian society: You don't know any different and perceive the other side exactly as portrayed by the propaganda until you made prolonged contact with them. After that it's all about your ideological conditioning or questioning motives. If you've never lived in a dictatorship you will probably have a hard time to understand but those of us who did actually understand how loyalty under an obviously oppressive regime works.

 

As for the interpretation of consuming equal to eating - I think that's a bit of literal translation. It was just said that he consumed them via a ritual. It's basically converting all their material essence into energy which he absorbed.

 

If you are truly playing Empire from a non-RP you still have plenty of options to make a difference then you will find no fun whatsoever because you are constantly weighing in your own real-life moral stance unless you are that wicked IRL. In truth it is hard to not think in-character and then you can still decide to make a difference. As Imperial Agent my character loathed the Sith, as Juggernaut I felt like being an errand boy for the secret service at times and had no qualms cleaning up their ranks when I saw it fit. Still both were loyal to the Empire, one to the secular side of it representing power, order and their as twisted as it may sound their version of peace and the other character liked the Empire for what it represented, a large region of space under the rule of the immortal Emperor with you being his unwavering knight bringing a new understanding of power, order and a society based on rewarding obedience and personal efforts for gaining power.

Edited February 15, 2012 by ArmchairMagpie