EhLiar Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 This! When I started my sniper I was like, "What's everyone complaining about? I'm a DPS monster!" Then I hit lvl 20 and started falling on the damage charts being surpassed by BH and Troopers. I started doing more and more research, watching videos, and upgrading to purple items trying to get back to the top 1 or 2 spots every game. I'm almost lvl 30 now and, while I've moved up, I'm still rarely hitting top, or next to top, damage. As a MM sniper I now feel I'm playing far far better than at 10-15 but the boost in DPS, numbers wise, just isn't what it was. It's maddening to see the "tank" classes spamming their 2 buttons and contributing more DPS to the fight than what you can muster... even though that's supposed to be our primary role. Just some thoughts from a sniper that has PvP'ed his way up from 10-29.8, only running 4 instances in that time. they do "more" dps but we will do more actual useful damage. all the tank stuff is flair numbers that don't really matter. we can pick dudes to make dead. yeaaah baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faresan Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Can't say in my 64 valor ranks of playing that I've ever seen a sniper/gs that is anything more than an irritant. As a healer, they sure can't kill me (nor really can operatives for that matter) without help. Only time when one is doing any good in huttball is when they blast me off a ledge, but of course you could have any number of classes do that so good for you great snipers. Keep on truckin and I'll keep thanking you're not playing a better class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilly Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Can't say in my 64 valor ranks of playing that I've ever seen a sniper/gs that is anything more than an irritant. As a healer, they sure can't kill me (nor really can operatives for that matter) without help. Only time when one is doing any good in huttball is when they blast me off a ledge, but of course you could have any number of classes do that so good for you great snipers. Keep on truckin and I'll keep thanking you're not playing a better class Thank god this game isn't 1vhealer! We'd be screwed! What class do you play champ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KraithFjorn Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Why dont people play them in warzones? Their dmg output can seem so ridiculously good that I have to ask why is it such an unattractive class? That's just it though, their damage isn't that good. Yes, in the overall spectrum of damage different classes do, Snipers are up there. But a smart player can fairly easily avoid a lot of damage snipers do just be exploiting LoS and interrupting often. I'm not saying they are useless. They aren't. And as I've gotten more proficient with the different specs, and knowing when and where to use their at-first-glance-less-pvp-orientated-abilities (such as Orbital Strike), I've come to see the role snipers play in a warzone that I have yet to see other classes match to the same effect. That being said, their slightly outlandish utility isn't quite as apparent as a Sorcs or Mercs, hence the deficit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilly Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 That's just it though, their damage isn't that good. Yes, in the overall spectrum of damage different classes do, Snipers are up there. But a smart player can fairly easily avoid a lot of damage snipers do just be exploiting LoS and interrupting often. I'm not saying they are useless. They aren't. And as I've gotten more proficient with the different specs, and knowing when and where to use their at-first-glance-less-pvp-orientated-abilities (such as Orbital Strike), I've come to see the role snipers play in a warzone that I have yet to see other classes match to the same effect. That being said, their slightly outlandish utility isn't quite as apparent as a Sorcs or Mercs, hence the deficit. You can't interrupt a sniper/gs in cover unless you stun them. A good one is going to hunker down when you go to CC him. Stick with your line of sight. My fav thing to watch is a healer run for cover and heal themselves while we switch and kill 2 of his/her dps. Los only matters in 1v1 and arena when it comes to our damage. Since there is no arena and 1v1 doesn't matter we are gtg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternWind Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 This! When I started my sniper I was like, "What's everyone complaining about? I'm a DPS monster!" Then I hit lvl 20 and started falling on the damage charts being surpassed by BH and Troopers. I started doing more and more research, watching videos, and upgrading to purple items trying to get back to the top 1 or 2 spots every game. I'm almost lvl 30 now and, while I've moved up, I'm still rarely hitting top, or next to top, damage. As a MM sniper I now feel I'm playing far far better than at 10-15 but the boost in DPS, numbers wise, just isn't what it was. It's maddening to see the "tank" classes spamming their 2 buttons and contributing more DPS to the fight than what you can muster... even though that's supposed to be our primary role. Just some thoughts from a sniper that has PvP'ed his way up from 10-29.8, only running 4 instances in that time. You're the wrong spec for pvp. MM totally limits ANY mobility that the class has. End of discussion. If you want to top the charts with damage, killing blows, solo kills, and fewest deaths you either want a Dirty Fighting or a hybrid Sabo/DF spec. The reason why the class appears to suck at face value is: 1) hard learning curve 2) being played by bad players 3)fairly squishy Starting out you think the class is really awesome cause you can stay behind cover and aimed shot >charged burst people, early on. Once people learn that they need to LOS you or get in your face it changes the dynamics of the class a whole lot. This is why I prefer the sabo/df hybrid spec. you get most of your defensive abilities on reduced c/d's, and more instant damaging abilities that all do either bleed or kinetic damage, which ignores armor. Sabotage charge fully talented out will crit for 3.5-4k on initial blast and around 500-1k on the 3 secondary charges, add in shock charge, vital shot, and shrap bombs, and you get dots ticking for 400-900 dmg each, plus speed shot which hits anywhere from 500-1200 per half second not including the talent dot blazing speed. It starts off fairly slow, cause you are trying to stack everything, but once it's on, nothing lives. There have been fights where I got ambushed by someone and they started out 100% with my around 60% before I got everything on them, 2seconds later they are at 5% health with my finishing them off with a quickdraw. As far as mobility goes, I'm an extremely aggressive Gunslinger, so You'll likely see me in the mid line, than at max range, stacking all my dots till I see someone I want to kill (usually a healer, a dps sage, or a tracer spamming BH) then I'll go through my rotation. That is the ONLY time you'll ever see me in cover and that is why I live a lot longer than I do if I just stay behind the big neon blue billboard sign. 1v1's for the most part I will win 8.5/10. Sometimes I'll mess up my rotation or the other guy gets a lucky string of crits on me. To give you an idea of the difficulty of the class, I have ALL 4 quickbars full of abilities, and I use almost all of them every single fight, compared to around 10 to 15 on my vigilance specc'd guardian. stats at end game are Cunning>Crit>Surge>Power>End. Here are mine, I have a few pieces of battlemaster, and the rest is champ. 1460 Cunning 1436 Endurance 685 Expertise 91.93 %accuracy 36.86% crit 87.44% crit multiplier Riddickk Kinrath Spider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryBuddhist Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 they do "more" dps but we will do more actual useful damage. all the tank stuff is flair numbers that don't really matter. we can pick dudes to make dead. yeaaah baby. That's true. Gunslingers/Snipers are great 'finishers'. If you look closely at the numbers killed they are usually very high compared to the DPS done. Also, I found I get more valor per match if I use a lot of grenade spam. Doesn't do a lot of damage but I get credited with a lot of kills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternWind Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 You can't interrupt a sniper/gs in cover unless you stun them. A good one is going to hunker down when you go to CC him. Stick with your line of sight. My fav thing to watch is a healer run for cover and heal themselves while we switch and kill 2 of his/her dps. Los only matters in 1v1 and arena when it comes to our damage. Since there is no arena and 1v1 doesn't matter we are gtg. all I do is drop a Freighter fly-by by his pillar. He's either gonna eat the aoe or come out so I can shoot him. Either way, he's dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternWind Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 That's true. Gunslingers/Snipers are great 'finishers'. If you look closely at the numbers killed they are usually very high compared to the DPS done. Also, I found I get more valor per match if I use a lot of grenade spam. Doesn't do a lot of damage but I get credited with a lot of kills. what spec are you? If you are sabo/df hybrid it crits up to 3k per person and on the global c/d. very good for a spammable aoe that can get you a bunch of Killing blows. Don't knock it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryBuddhist Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) what spec are you? If you are sabo/df hybrid it crits up to 3k per person and on the global c/d. very good for a spammable aoe that can get you a bunch of Killing blows. Don't knock it. That's what I am saying. The finishing moves for a gunslinger (like the quick draw) are great for killing off low hp enemies fast. So I get a lot more kills than what the DPS would imply. Never seen a GS out DPS the Jedi's though. (Oh Is ee what you mean... I don't consider 3K a lot of damage. I usually get the 2.5 damage medal on my first aim shot in the match) Edited February 13, 2012 by AngryBuddhist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalliadies Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I love it when a team commits to assaulting an area so much that they ignore orbital bombardment. Ever seen an engineer explosive probe, ambush and orbital land at the same time? Followed by a few frags and electrified rail gun? Omg comes to mind. I love my sniper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wetwillyiii Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Hi my name is Tweakie from the server The Constant: I'm sure the guys on both sides of the factions will tell you, I am one of the most hated and loved snipers in PvP. When you see me your usually repawning at your zone by that time. I have tons of FRAPs videos i will be posting of sniper domination soon. I will say its a very complicated class to master and whoever said, snipers have no mobility have gone up against some crappy snipers/gunslingers. Most of my 1 v 1 result in them dead or them running for their life. Only reason one will stick around is if, A him/her getting heals or B him/her is guard. An I dont hang around for that, so I move to my next valueble target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryBuddhist Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 . Most of my 1 v 1 result in them dead or them running for their life. And when they introduce the 1v1 warzones you will be a hero! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalliadies Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) And when they introduce the 1v1 warzones you will be a hero! 1 on 1's always happen as a sniper. Usually a stealther that slips past the main fight just to have a go at you. why? because snipers arent in plain sight of friend or foe. 1 on 1 is a useful skill Edited February 14, 2012 by Kalliadies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wetwillyiii Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 1 on 1's always happen as a sniper. Usually a stealther that slips past the main fight just to have a go at you. yep all i do is cover pulse, flash bang, run far enough out of range, drop the dots, leg shot and have fun burning. Always keep my slip way last just incase he thinks he wants to be brave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalliadies Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 yep all i do is cover pulse, flash bang, run far enough out of range, drop the dots, leg shot and have fun burning. Always keep my slip way last just incase he thinks he wants to be brave. yeah. I got the hang of dealing with those stealthers that come looking for you. Caused them so much trouble that they generally dont come back for more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrekorSilverfang Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 This! When I started my sniper I was like, "What's everyone complaining about? I'm a DPS monster!" Then I hit lvl 20 and started falling on the damage charts being surpassed by BH and Troopers. I started doing more and more research, watching videos, and upgrading to purple items trying to get back to the top 1 or 2 spots every game. I'm almost lvl 30 now and, while I've moved up, I'm still rarely hitting top, or next to top, damage. As a MM sniper I now feel I'm playing far far better than at 10-15 but the boost in DPS, numbers wise, just isn't what it was. It's maddening to see the "tank" classes spamming their 2 buttons and contributing more DPS to the fight than what you can muster... even though that's supposed to be our primary role. Just some thoughts from a sniper that has PvP'ed his way up from 10-29.8, only running 4 instances in that time. Well consider this... what is better 500k damage and 20 kills or 200k damage and 60 kills? Sniper are very proficient at doing the latter... if you want the former spec lethality and you can do it but it's generally just a medal farming spec not so great for killing people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KraithFjorn Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 You can't interrupt a sniper/gs in cover unless you stun them. A good one is going to hunker down when you go to CC him. Stick with your line of sight. My fav thing to watch is a healer run for cover and heal themselves while we switch and kill 2 of his/her dps. Los only matters in 1v1 and arena when it comes to our damage. Since there is no arena and 1v1 doesn't matter we are gtg. To the first point, I was referring to roots/CCs/Direct interrupt abilities. Warriors and Sages tend to have quite a few of them, which is a bit of a problem for a class that regardless of your spec, depends heavily on casted/channeled abilities to win a 1v1. This is even more prevalent in that you can sometimes have fights that are near impossible to win as a sniper because someone makes frequent use of abilities that interrupt, plus LoSing frequently (which is especially obnoxious on huttball, where plenty of DPS classes can simply circle around pillars/other objects, still dealing damage, while you are left with a few DOTs and rifle shot). As a sniper, are there ways to get around this? Well, sometimes. It depends, and proficient snipers have gotten good at not letting these problems get to them and/or outwardly avoiding them. Other classes though? They don't have these problems to begin with, which is one of the reasons why snipers are both unpopular, and often receive self pitty and demands for buffs. I also disagree with the notion that 1v1 doesn't matter, but that's a different debate entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evuke Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I love it when a team commits to assaulting an area so much that they ignore orbital bombardment. Ever seen an engineer explosive probe, ambush and orbital land at the same time? Followed by a few frags and electrified rail gun? Omg comes to mind. I love my sniper people would have to be stupid or blind (probably both) to miss the massive animation and huge cast time of orbital strike and not get out of the way of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paladinjb Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 because they really don't know how powerful snipers are. Sorcs and mercs are really weak ranged dps compared to them, but that isn't widely known. I saw a sniper kill somebody once, so they must be all right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amien Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 When I see a Sniper, I'm so thankful that they can't move without having to set up shot again. I just LoS them and move on. Lol No reason to give them a reason to Gun down my Shadow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalliadies Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 people would have to be stupid or blind (probably both) to miss the massive animation and huge cast time of orbital strike and not get out of the way of it. You know how much of the population is stupid? add to that you know how many have tunnel vision? Alot of People will ignore the AoE animation when they think they can kill you. All they see is a target to kill. also if they are smart enough to leave the area, I just denied that zone. either way its effective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thatius Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 To the first point, I was referring to roots/CCs/Direct interrupt abilities. Warriors and Sages tend to have quite a few of them, which is a bit of a problem for a class that regardless of your spec, depends heavily on casted/channeled abilities to win a 1v1. This is even more prevalent in that you can sometimes have fights that are near impossible to win as a sniper because someone makes frequent use of abilities that interrupt, plus LoSing frequently (which is especially obnoxious on huttball, where plenty of DPS classes can simply circle around pillars/other objects, still dealing damage, while you are left with a few DOTs and rifle shot). This is when good snipers recognize the terrain they're in, see the tactics the enemy is planning on using (DoT, LoS, DoT, LoS) and will pick up and relocate to fight someone else. To be a good sniper in SWTOR you have to see the battles you can't win and avoid them. Sun Tzu said that, true story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedricshots Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I play a GS and i enjoy it. Its not faceroll easy like some other classes and maybe thats why people dont roll them as much. The key is to use a spec like dirty fighting that does respectable dps while being mobile at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDProletariat Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Well consider this... what is better 500k damage and 20 kills or 200k damage and 60 kills? Sniper are very proficient at doing the latter... if you want the former spec lethality and you can do it but it's generally just a medal farming spec not so great for killing people. Except a competent Gunslinger can get both the most kills AND the most DPS, along with the least deaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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