grueber Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 lol WoW was designed from the get go to be an easy access ungriding mmo. Before Cata came out there was an article in PC gamer a UK gaming mag with one the devs and i beveled he said they would have made it much more casual friendly and even said Arena was a mistake. If you were playing WoW hard core you were maybe do in it wrong. Your mistaken. When WoW was released there was no insta PvP gear available that let you bypass PvE grind to have the equipment to do MC. Getting 40 people geared for sequential raid progression in MC is not what I consider "casual". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IIII-IIII-IIII Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 300 million dollar mmo's definitely did NOT exist before casuals "discovered" this genre. welcome to present day. we have cookies, and bad mmo's. touche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillfort Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 That what I said they would have made it more causal friendly ie they got it a bit wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meldwyn Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I think the story is great, for your first character to max level. However, after that, its bland and not creative at all. Won't hold my interest long, if any more... I can't even log on to my lvl 38 SI (lvl 50 JKG is collecting dust, atm) because its just too boring. Meh, what do you expect from a game that touts story, but drops it completely at end game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazouk Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 lol WoW was designed from the get go to be an easy access ungriding mmo. Before Cata came out there was an article in PC gamer a UK gaming mag with one the devs and i beveled he said they would have made it much more casual friendly and even said Arena was a mistake. If you were playing WoW hard core you were maybe do in it wrong. i remember my first few months in mmo's. i was a casual gamer who saw HWL's, or people in naxx (40) gear and looked up to them. it gave me something to strive for. i knew it would be time consuming and difficult but i didn't care. I looked up to guilds like Nihilum who cleared everything 6 months before anyone else did. it didn't bother me one bit that i wasn't able to get into a group who could do that. they were doing it right but at the same time, i was enjoying the game, so... so was i. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShonaChaos Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I've been playing games since 1981... And I have every game console and computer created, pretty much. I collect retro computers. I have a nest of machines in this room from the humble Amiga through to Elite, PS3, Dreamcast, Cube and a couple of powerful PCs rigged up to big screens. Gaming is a hobby of mine and I really take no prisoners when it comes to entertainment. I loved WoW and actually still play, along with Rift and the odd flurry into STO. I also have Guildwars. With 10 at cap in both Rift and WoW I kinda have done most of whats to offer really. Those games are good. I bought Final Fantasy XIII-2 this week but have yet to fire it up. I won't play unless its fun. And to this game... Level 17. The game is brilliant. Loving it. I don't generally get put off by what anyone says about the game. After all its my game. And the game is intoxicating I have to say. I have done little else this weekend. I can easily see me doing this for the next year. Classic. PS I thought Skyrim was crap... Played all of one hour before the box hit the shelf. I've been playing computer games since 1854 and i think this game is just not very good at all. The journey from 1-50 for the first time isn't terrible. Most people would agree the levelling is 'adequate'. A little fast for most, but overall it's not a bad experience. At 50, the game is subpar. And you'll get to 50 fast. As an MMO, the game very subpar. Throw in a bunch of minor annoyances/bugs... the game is subpar. But if you think this is one of the best games you've played since 1981... then you're free to have your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IIII-IIII-IIII Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Meh, what do you expect from a game that touts story, but drops it completely at end game? sequel! I mean.... expan$ion! =X Edited February 12, 2012 by IIII-IIII-IIII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Your mistaken. When WoW was released there was no insta PvP gear available that let you bypass PvE grind to have the equipment to do MC. Getting 40 people geared for sequential raid progression in MC is not what I consider "casual". This ^. Things turned when people really started complaining about some of the difficulty in BC. The tears over things like Heroic Shattered Halls was hilarious. Once things started getting tuned down, attunements removed, etc that is when it really became as casual as it is today. There was a time there where, while still somewhat casual, it was not an exercise in facerolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenleef Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I think the crafting system is the worst any mmo ever put out 1 takes no thought and 2 can't make money adverting because items takes so long to craft. End game is a joke.its just pvp\flashpoints. No real grinds what so ever and the bugs are beond awfule even for a game launch . Been looking forward to this game for years just to be disapointed. There is a lot of pontental and can be great but I'm not paying for potental mabe in a few months I will check back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 if you didn't have casuals, you wouldn't have a game to play. Your right we would of had our other games since the casuals would not have destroyed them the problem is solvable with different modes (easy, hard, etc.) and different drops from those modes (not just more drops for hard mode). No different modes being easy and hard just keep adding to the problem. It divides the player base into groups and not as a whole. It just make the nerf to easymode the common practice to fix anything. casuals are happy 1 or 2 tiers behind elite players as long as the stuff they have is purple and if they ever decide to run hard... or nightmare modes, the stuff they have doesn't render them utterly useless. They are not happy about being 1 or 2 tiers behind. They are only happy if they are getting the same loot while doing the same bosses on an easier scale. this worked great in wow (early BC). i never understood why they moved away from that model. people were happy. It worked great because WoW didnt give into the casual yet and they had to play the game instead. now with new games *cough* this one, you can clear "hard mode" content as though you are running Naxx in tier 10. And why is that? Its because people say they dont have the time to play this game 23 hours a say so Bioware made it so no effort was needed to do anything in this game. I leveled from 1-9 without replacing 1 piece of gear and still managed to kill silvers and golds. Its all because of the casual player and even they admit it. we don't have casuals to blame. anti-social programmers and developers with 200 iq's who have zero common sense are who we have to blame. No you can blame the devs for giving into the casuals but the casuals should take the most blame Dont think the casuals are on a warpath? http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=292355. They want everything and wont stop till they have everything. They use the give a little and then take alot then give a little and take alot method. We just want to see the content we dont care about the loot. Then since they now have the content its unfair to have different loot since they are doing the same fights. Then to add to it they will cry that it is harder because they cant do the same fights even though the elite players who are spending their time getting the best enchants,gear,specs(min max) are stacking to what they need and rolling alts to get what they need to barely kill a boss while the casual is going in with min gear and just anyone they pick. The final product? A smaller fight that drops the same gear that is 5x easier with people of the same skill level. Thats all because of casuals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dianoia Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Your list lists almost nothing actually interesting or noteworthy. Bioware succeeded then. I was thinking the exact same thing. What do you want housing for? To play dollhouse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderslice Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I have already un subed, ends on the 22. I dont think the game really has much to offer, for some reason the game is just boring, I cant stand that the community is split on a standard feature like dual spec or lfd, I think I just cant stand this community that adds to my frustration with the game just not being very fun, never have i been bored of a mmo this fast. Unless Bio ware pulls a rabbit out of there hat soon, it will be ftp, lol 3 pvp maps? The game was clearly rushed and they spent all there time and money on Va that after so long get space barred any ways. Big let down IMO, cant wait for the next mmo to see if some one can get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rohke Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Id like to disagree with myself, and you will probably say that WoW has been out longer and I would agree. However WoW is a better mmo than TOR and thats just plain sad . I dont even really like WoW but its more mmo than TOR will ever be unless bioware do a miracle on it. MMORPG Is TOR massive? I dont think so not sure what others think. Is TOR Multiplayer? I think its just about multiplayer so thats a plus. But it could be better. Is TOR online? Yes Is TOR Roleplay? Yes and no although you do play a character with a role the character never feels my own. Is TOR a game? Yes it has gamplay features. Although I feel its quite a poor game and a poor RPG at that. Similar to dragon age 2, TOR to me felt cheap and as if it had no thought or love put into it which im sure is not the case but then again I didnt think dragon age 2 would be such a disaster. I worry about mass effect 3 now and get the feeling that someone vital from bioware left cause they just not producing the same quality that im used to from bioware. Environments are reused in both dragon age 2 and TOR. They could had made both fleets more different and even some of the planets have similar layouts. I was dissapointed when I went from jedi temple of tython to coruscant and found the same holographic projected images. They were also lazy with classes really. Trooper = bounty hunter etc What they could had done is make each class truely unique and opened it up for both republic and empire. So bounty hunters and smugglers on both sides then you can have different style force users for each side too. Alot of money has gone into the story side of it with voice acting and such but in truth id rather that not be in it and for them to have focused on the game and the little things. Huge dissapointment, wish they made kotor 3 instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillfort Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Think about this. This game cost a lot to make and with out the casuals this game would never have been made. Basically if you are saying you want to make the game more hard core with the exclusion to people who are not as good or lack the time to play. You want casuals service users paying the majority of the cost for that content. Is that fair? I think people want a game to play for there £8.99 a mouth not half a game they can't every see. There of course has to be a carrot and a stick and the game has to be challenging where you draw the line for gamer is i guess an economic derision and a hard one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 i remember my first few months in mmo's. i was a casual gamer who saw HWL's, or people in naxx (40) gear and looked up to them. it gave me something to strive for. i knew it would be time consuming and difficult but i didn't care. I looked up to guilds like Nihilum who cleared everything 6 months before anyone else did. it didn't bother me one bit that i wasn't able to get into a group who could do that. they were doing it right but at the same time, i was enjoying the game, so... so was i. Its because everyone had something to do. They didnt say here hardcore players you get all this stuff and casuals you get nothing to do. EVERYONE had something to do. Fast forward to today and if anyone mentions getting anything for a player thats not a casual and its "this game isnt for you so just quit already", its not sure you can have something to do but instead its if its not for me then we cant have it. The casuals of today (and the people I call casuals know who they are(not the people who are truely casuals)) only care about themselves and making sure that they get anything and no one can get something without them getting it also. Now just to not let the devs(games) of the hook. The reason they do this is so they can make the money. This business isnt about making a good product anymore but all about making money. With casuals you can do that because they will jump from game to game because they get bored with the game they are playing because just like the companies they dont care about the game either. So to break it down Devs only care about money Casuals only care about themselves Hardcores care about the game And the hardcores are portrayed as the ones that dont care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 - No appearance tab/outfit system There's an appearance tab that lets you see what gear will look like before you purchase or equip it. - No environmental interaction (chairs, walls, doors, etc...) You can sit in chairs in your ship. - No collision detection Hah. MMORPGs got rid of this ages ago. - Planets rated by levels with no reason to go back Datacrons, Lore items, Titles are all viable and functioning reasons to go back to planets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I was thinking the exact same thing. What do you want housing for? To play dollhouse? Keep in mind, there's this huge complaint about there being "nothing to do at end-game" and yet there's also this huge complaint that people can't play dollhouse or sit in a chair. It's a catch-22, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NumberSix Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Veteran gamer / MMO vet here, been gaming since 1986. First game was Kingdom of Kroz, anyone remember that classic ? I agree with the OP on just about everything except for the crafting system. I want to be part of a virtual, living, breathing world. For me personally, TOR is a love-hate relationship. I love the class stories, the voice acting, general gameplay, etc..however for me, TOR is just a great KOTOR sequel with multiplayer built in. I don't PvP anymore since burning myself out in WoW. Flashpoints are fun when you can actually find a group, but they have limited replay value. There are only 3 real classes I find very enjoyable to play, plus I no longer have time to play games I used to. Soon as I'm done with my Knight, Bounty Hunter, and Smuggler, the game will go on the shelf until the next expansion pack. I'll glady pay the subscription fee to play future leveling content, but unless there are some drastic changes made, I'm not going to be playing and paying year round. Some days I miss SWG so much, the one thing that game went above and beyond on was the crafting system. Tried various MMOs, none of really have given me my crafting fix. Currently subscribing to EVE, crafting not as fun as SWG was but economy is well implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tic- Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Keep in mind, there's this huge complaint about there being "nothing to do at end-game" and yet there's also this huge complaint that people can't play dollhouse or sit in a chair. It's a catch-22, lol Actually, in UO we used to smash each others "dollhouse". Folks would make player towns, and we could invade/defend them, and had some great battles doing so. Led to some guild wars, RP, forum drama, alliances, despised enemies etc. It didn't drop epics, so it would never work today though. Edited February 12, 2012 by Tic- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Think about this. This game cost a lot to make and with out the casuals this game would never have been made. Basically if you are saying you want to make the game more hard core with the exclusion to people who are not as good or lack the time to play. You want casuals service users paying the majority of the cost for that content. Is that fair? I think people want a game to play for there £8.99 a mouth not half a game they can't every see. There of course has to be a carrot and a stick and the game has to be challenging where you draw the line for gamer is i guess an economic derision and a hard one. WILL YOU LISTEN? I never said exclude anyone. I have said make it so everyone has something to do. Everyone as in casuals and hardcore. Everyone can play in a game and have something to do. The casuals are the ones that only want something for them to do. Justread the forums and you will see yourself. But to defend this they will treat it as the hardcore players only want everything for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulViolence Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 My thoughts are in the link in my sig. To that post, add this: - No day/night cycle - No swimming - No housing - No Pazaak, Sabacc, Dejarik, races, casino, etc... - Dumbed down character creation - No post-creation character customization - No appearance tab/outfit system - No high res textures - No environmental interaction (chairs, walls, doors, etc...) - Simple combat with static enemies - Unconvincing and stiff animations - Empty dead worlds with not enough NPCs moving around - No collision detection - No stats on resources - No crafting customization - Restriction in choice of starship - No ship decoration - Dumbed down space combat - No multiplayer space combat - Removal of many races - No faction change/neutrality - Restriction and instanced planets by faction - Less planets than announced - Planets rated by levels with no reason to go back - No GM events - Removal of choice to kill companion - Removal of possibility to talk to other faction at all times - No RP tools - Nothing to do post-story - Endgame consisting on waiting in fleet You forgot broken Ilum and an unusual amount of bugs for a game with such a large budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warjhinn Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 No we can thank the casuals that played WoW. No, really Really??? Sooo where is this line drawn that distinguishes a casual? I am just curious... Like.. Can I get my "Hardcore Gamer" title if I play 20 hours a week? or do I have to maybe get in a good 30 or 40 hours to be hard core?? Or is casual just logging in and enjoying the gaem regardless of how I play?? I think the only real Hardcore Gamers are the ones who do it for a living ... You think?? Like maybe the gold farmers who play several accounts at a time for hours a day... The ones who hack your account for the virtual money to turn into real money... the ones who use exploits and hacks and stolen credit cards to start those accounts.... You insinuate that the person who has a job, a family and other things going on, but likes to play eight or 10 hours a week is bad and should not waste your time by even subscribing. You really need some perspective.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregordunbar Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 As an MMO vet, a long time vet, im talking NWNO back in 1991 as well as played Meridian 59 and the Realm kind of vet. I dont compare this game to MMORPGs because it IS NOT AN MMORPG. This is a single player game with online capability. It does not matter if you HAVE to be online to play it, you have to be online to play the new settlers game, that doesnt make it an MMO...it does not matter if there are a lot of people playing it, quake had a million people playing it online, it wasnt an MMO. To call it an MMORPG is a slap in the face to MMORPGs. Its pretending to be one. Its a good game, great story, decent gameplay...it is not an MMORPG. ive seen as many people together in one spot in online shooters as I do in this game and I sure as hell do not call them MMORPGs. This game is trying to change the meaning of what an MMORPG is, it fails to do that in my book...it DOES change what a single player RPG is, by bringing it closer to what MMORPGs are. No, I dont care if you disagree, this is my opinion. Take off the blinders and deal with it, I said it was a good game while stating it isnt an MMO....omg the world is going to end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I was thinking the exact same thing. What do you want housing for? To play dollhouse? Have you ever seen some of the designs people did to the houses? So were artwork and some were museums. I remember one that had all but I believe 3 weapons that were ever in the game. My own house was how you can take something plain and change it into something that isnt and orignial It gave life to the game, made it feel like it wasnt just placed to take up space. It gave you a reason to explore and visit new areas. But no in this game its a one way rollercoaster with no twists or turns, just a straight line to the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillfort Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 WILL YOU LISTEN? I never said exclude anyone. I have said make it so everyone has something to do. Everyone as in casuals and hardcore. Everyone can play in a game and have something to do. The casuals are the ones that only want something for them to do. Justread the forums and you will see yourself. But to defend this they will treat it as the hardcore players only want everything for themselves. Easy It what a rhetorical question it was not aimed at you. I do read the forums and it does come a across that both groups of players what both things for them selves I am a very hard core player myself i would what things change to soot my style of play but they did not make SWG episode 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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