MMO Vets, What do you think?

[Heretiq]

I think SWTOR is a great game. However it would be an even greater game (in my opinion) should the following features be implemented:

 

- fully automatic cross-server LFG-tool

- dual-specialization

- high-resolution textures

- post-creation character customization (barber shop)

- more character customization options

- fully customizable UI

- 3rd party addons

- combat log / recount

Edited February 14, 2012 by Heretiq

[flomasterzee]

I think the game is AMAZING for just released, just hope they can keep a steady update of content and fixes!

[Sizzurps]

The sad thing is that Sony made an MMO for 50 mil that features more character customizations than SWTOR (300 mil)... and also features a much much much better engine. Judging by the cinematics in SWTOR... should have made a movie and scrapped the game.

 

 

Unreal Engine 3

 

Directional Light Shafts

Color Grading

Point Light Shafts

 

Plus much much more...

 

http://www.unrealengine.com/awards_accolades/

 

DCUO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfMx9TTUas0

 

Mass PvP:

 

______

 

HEROengine (/facepalm)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEuFZbdJsKk

 

Mass PvP:

Edited February 14, 2012 by Sizzurps

[Amyas]

I think SWTOR is a great game. However it would be an even greater game (in my opinion) should the following features be implemented:

 

- fully automatic cross-server LFG-tool

- dual-specialization

- high-resolution textures

- post-creation character customization (barber shop)

- more character customization options

- fully customizable UI

- 3rd party addons

- combat log / recount

 

I agree 100%

[Kalfear]

I think SWTOR is a great game. However it would be an even greater game (in my opinion) should the following features be implemented:

 

- fully automatic cross-server LFG-tool

- dual-specialization

- high-resolution textures

- post-creation character customization (barber shop)

- more character customization options

- fully customizable UI

- 3rd party addons

- combat log / recount

 

So im interested.

 

How does this list fix the lack of interaction, socialization, community in the game?

 

#1 complaint I hear from people is the game is lifeless and static and thats mostly because everyone off in their little guild cliques talking on vent and turning off general and pvp and trade chats.

 

So how do any of those requests fix that issue?

 

*PS: I dont actually disagree with them all either btw, some I think are waste but some would be great. I just dont think any of them address the issues plagueing this game long term*

[Tic-]

hehe NWN was a insanely expensive game so not for kids.

 

We paid $20.00 for 20 hours a month and then $2.95/hour ($3.95/hour for me in canada) after that.

 

My average bill was $300.00-$500.00/month though I do think I topped out at $800.00 one particularly guild activity filled month (think that month we had a War with BDA and started 2 events a week for guild). Even back then my guild I was in was over 50 players strong and active.

 

The community was amazing though and honestly ruined all future games.

Im not talking the rose tinted glasses memory of SWG and UO players where you ignore the bad and only remember the good.

 

In NWN, as it was so freaking costly to play, no one had the time or effort to troll, flame, ect each other. Every player went in trying to maximize the experience for themselve and those around them so when that RPer started RPing during PVP (remember turn based), you went along with it rather then moaning about RPers.

 

When that PVPer jumped you in hills (PVP Zone so not ganking), you gave your best fight rather then whining and moaning about those dang PVPers.

 

And that created a solid community thats still togather to this day!

In fact I play nightly with a guildmate I met in NWN on AOL here in TOR

Another old friend just asked if I could show his kids the ropes

Other guilds have difted to different servers yet they still talk and interact on Facebook and at Forgotten World

 

21 years later and they still going strong togather.

LOL, thats longer then allot of marriages I know of.

 

But yeah, if someone was to look back at the hostories of these games, everything you see today, EVERYTHING, was done in NWN, Realms, DSO, Meridian59.

 

Its all there, all covered.

 

PVP, warzones, ladders, housing, dyes, role play, auction house, raids, dailies, you name it, its in one of those 4 games. Maybe in its most basic and undeveloped form still, but its there for future games to grow off of.

 

Its a shame that so few take the time to actually learn the real history of the genre. Its a very interesting read to be honest.

 

Heh, my wife still "reminds" me about those old AOL bills from NWN...

 

KEF IN!

[Graburr]

How does this list fix the lack of interaction, socialization, community in the game?

 

 

because the average mmo player these days wants to play a multiplayer game (singleplayer is too boring!!1), yet at the same does not want to deal with people.

 

it's not about playing with others, but not playing alone.

[Concession]

EvE is better and this game lacks the sandbox features BW said they would have some of.

yes I know this is a themepark game, but they did say back in Alpha/Beta that there would be sandbox elemetns after the former SWG players hounded the hell out of them.

[knightblaster]

because the average mmo player these days wants to play a multiplayer game (singleplayer is too boring!!1), yet at the same does not want to deal with people.

 

it's not about playing with others, but not playing alone.

 

Playing alone together, in other words.

 

It's basically what WoW's system has perfected. I think it does very much meet the needs of most of the players, because most players just want a quick in and out gaming experience in the limited time they have to play (vast majority of players have very limited play time). So the model of playing alone together is popular -- you are playing multiplayer, but in a very casual, easy-in/easy-out way. The vast majority of players do not want to take the time to socialize in a video game -- the people who were into that in the early MMOs were a self-selecting niche of people who had generally quite a bit of time on their hands and/or were virtual world enthusiasts. Most players today are just looking for a bit of fun and entertainment in a limited time frame in the evenings -- not to socialize or do a virtual world or anything of the sort. This is how it is today, because this is the market today. And so the games are set up (at least the successful ones are) to satisfy the needs of this market. It makes sense.

[Runeshard]

Yet here you are on the forums saying my sig is wrong. Shouldnt you be logged in playing instead of reading my sig.

 

Your opinion that people who like the game should not post on these forums or even have a right to do so is puzzling. First of all the vast majority of those that play the game do not come to this forum at all and even fewer actually post.

 

You also seem to make the assumption that people who post in defence of the game and argue against your opinions regarding it are not playing the game at all. It should be no small wonder that some people who like the game and indeed play the game occasionally come here to read threads and make posts but this notion seems to perplex you to no end. What about this is so hard to grasp?

Edited February 14, 2012 by Runeshard

[OldBenSmokin]

Played MMOs for 16 years now.

 

This is the worst MMO I've ever played, followed by FFXIV and then AION.

 

 

Sadly, I agree. Even on the order of those other two. Might have to toss MXO in there too.

[Waypoc]

I have a 20 page template designed - which makes it about half complete.

 

When I finish it (If ever, it's been 2 years since I started, and I have deleted, re written parts so many times because of flaws I have found myself) , I will search for someone to listen. There are 3 studios close to where I live in Chicago that I will approach first. But getting your game made is harder than getting a book published - because of all the costs involved. I will finish it and show it to people so at least I can say I finished it - but I don't expect anything to come of it.

 

That's awesome. Don't give up on it.

 

All of my friends keep telling me to write a game because of the ideas that I have and I think I have 1 page somewhere from long ago. So you are way ahead of me.

 

You could always go Indie. Niche is a good market too. 10-100k is a nice amount of people to keep your world alive.

[Waypoc]

SWTOR is fantastic. I'm loving every second of it.

 

lol good one!!

[LordDeschain]

Really??? Sooo where is this line drawn that distinguishes a casual? I am just curious...

 

Like.. Can I get my "Hardcore Gamer" title if I play 20 hours a week? or do I have to maybe get in a good 30 or 40 hours to be hard core??

 

Or is casual just logging in and enjoying the gaem regardless of how I play??

 

I think the only real Hardcore Gamers are the ones who do it for a living ... You think??

 

Like maybe the gold farmers who play several accounts at a time for hours a day... The ones who hack your account for the virtual money to turn into real money... the ones who use exploits and hacks and stolen credit cards to start those accounts....

 

You insinuate that the person who has a job, a family and other things going on, but likes to play eight or 10 hours a week is bad and should not waste your time by even subscribing.

 

You really need some perspective....

 

Hit the frigging nail on the head! I have a 16 month old daughter, a wife (who plays), a business to run, and friends to still include in my life, among other things. So therefore I can only commit to maybe 15 hours a week if lucky. I guess that classifies me as casual then.

 

But guess what the majority of the functioning world cannot dedicate their ENTIRE lives to being elite gamers and being a huge SW fan and a fan of gaming in general I would feel slighted if the game only catered to those who can dedicate 10 hours plus a day to it.

 

While I feel both casual and hardcore gamers are both necessary to the games overall future improvement the game would not be here were it not for casual players and guess what all game companies are BUSINESSES and BUSINESSES strive to profit, so therefore will always cater to the largest market and by far and large the largest market is people who can play at a casual pace.

 

I just hit level 39 on my first character last night after playing since the early release. Not like some people who have reached 3 level 50's in two weeks and then complain there isnt enough to do.

 

I say all you complainers just simply leave and come back down the road when there is enough "end game" stuff to keep you hooked. And as much as it pains you to think the game will not die and be just find without you, because again the majority of players are "casual" and will have plenty to do for months and months to come, without even a single update to content, and thats the stark reality. Im not saying they shouldnt keep updating, improving, and adding new stuff, its in the best interest of their business model to do so.

 

I come to these forums for the seldom interesting thread, but the majority are full of haters and the funny thing is out of the 9 friends I have in my life who play the game, none are even thinking at all about quitting, oh except for one my brother in law who is majoring in ocean engineering and simply dose'nt have the time to play at the moment.

[Chewpaco]

I think the era of "community"-oriented MMOs is finished. Too expensive to make for too little return due to too few players interested in that kind of playstyle. AS you say, rightly I think, communities are built by adversity -- by need. That's not a very popular playstyle as compared with a more convenience oriented approach, and given how expensive these games are to make, I don't see big budget titles being developed for the more hardcore/difficulty/community oriented set. Indie developers may continue to explore these kinds of games, but their success will continue to be mixed due to their limited budgets, which therefore limits the talent and spend they can afford (Darkfall and Mortal Online are only two examples of this).

 

GW2 is a bit of a different market, because it is B2P. In fact, if it is any good at all, it may begin what I think is the inevitable move in the MMO market away from the P2P/subscription model towards a more diverse group of economic/financial models. The subscription model is becoming an unattainable El Dorado for everyone but Activision, in terms of ROI, to be honest.

 

Everything goes in cycles is what I would say to your theory. The first 5 years of MMORPG gaming - massive games with tremendous depth - large group oriented, non solo friendly. People grew tired of the every title being such a grind.

 

Boom, Blizzard releases WoW. It is everything those are other games are not. It is not better, it is different. Clear, precise, progression roadmaps laid out for people to follow. Very casual in nature, very little thought needed to play and succeed.

 

The last 7 years - solo snoozefests. Every game has tried to copy it in some fashion. People are growing sick and tired of THE SAME GAME RE-SKINNED. Just like Bell - Bottoms went out of style, then came back in style - so will the Hard-Core MMO gaming market.

 

When you speak of ROI - and the subscription model becoming obsolete. Maybe, maybe not. 1 avenue I feel that is being underestimated is the retail price of one of these games.

 

I for one know that I spend probably 300 bucks a year purchasing new video games - not including subscription fees which probaly total another 300 a year.

 

Would I spend 150 - 200 bucks for a game that I was able to invest in long term? You bet I would. So would others. As long as we were guaranteed that the game wasn't going to be reduced to a solo snoozefest 3 months after launch.

[gurugeorge]

yet at the same time I see design decisions like it's their first MMO. and things change, either you adapt or you don't - especially in video games.

 

You are taking it for granted that BW are trying to compete with WoW and other games that have the design decisions you approve of. That is unlikely.

 

It's more likely that BW are looking for a new audience, not fishing for an audience already addicted to another game (or even getting bored with it).

 

If the last few years has proven anything, it's that the "bored WoW-er" audience is fickle and basically not worth fishing for. Much better to try to entice people new to MMOs into MMOs - e.g. people who tried WoW but didn't like it, people who like SW, people who like BW, and people new to gaming generally. That was basically Blizzard's gameplan too, in its own time (they weren't so much directly competing with EQ, in the sense of trying to attract people already playing EQ, they were trying to find a formula that would attract new players).

 

That, I think, is the point of BW's stress on storyline and VO, which sort of doesn't really impress hardcore gamers or ex-WoW-ers that much, but probably impresses more neutral parties more. (Same goes for the other large QQ-ing camp - ex-SWG-ers - again, no themepark game would ever please them anyway, so no point even trying to entice them, really.)

[Alkiii]

My thoughts are in the link in my sig (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=216855). To that post, add this:

 

- No day/night cycle

- No swimming

- No housing

- No Pazaak, Sabacc, Dejarik, races, casino, etc...

- Dumbed down character creation

- No post-creation character customization

- No appearance tab/outfit system

- No high res textures

- No environmental interaction (chairs, walls, doors, etc...)

- Simple combat with static enemies

- Unconvincing and stiff animations

- Empty dead worlds with not enough NPCs moving around

- No collision detection

- No stats on resources

- No crafting customization

- Restriction in choice of starship

- No ship decoration

- Dumbed down space combat

- No multiplayer space combat

- Removal of many races

- No faction change/neutrality

- Restriction and instanced planets by faction

- Less planets than announced

- Planets rated by levels with no reason to go back

- No GM events

- Removal of choice to kill companion

- Removal of possibility to talk to other faction at all times

- No RP tools

- Nothing to do post-story

- Endgame consisting on waiting in fleet

 

 

And you feel that you're entitled to all of the above because?

 

 

I enjoy the game for what it is ... entertainment. If you're not entertained, why are you making such a big deal out of it? Close the door on the way out when you leave ... some of us are actually enjoying ourselves here (crazy ... I know).

[Zakua]

I had a blast leveling up, story was cool and all the odds and ends I didn't care for seemed glossed over by the quick progression.

 

The endgame on the other hand....not my cup of tea.

There should be other ways to get your points for gear bags then huttball and the occasional pub V imp WZ match.

 

I assume they will address the what will soon be a large influx of lvl 50 players with added content to grind on and additional WZ's, I just hope it's sooner rather then later.

 

The gear tree to me feels upside down...at lvl 20 you can choose from a large array of armor but at lvl 50 you and everyone else in your class are forced into one (well two if you do FP for gear aswell).

 

Good game but I do not feel so star warsy while playing it.

I want to sink my teeth into something and this feels more like I get a little nibble then its gone.

[Kalfear]

Everything goes in cycles is what I would say to your theory. The first 5 years of MMORPG gaming - massive games with tremendous depth - large group oriented, non solo friendly. People grew tired of the every title being such a grind.

 

Boom, Blizzard releases WoW. It is everything those are other games are not. It is not better, it is different. Clear, precise, progression roadmaps laid out for people to follow. Very casual in nature, very little thought needed to play and succeed.

 

The last 7 years - solo snoozefests. Every game has tried to copy it in some fashion. People are growing sick and tired of THE SAME GAME RE-SKINNED. Just like Bell - Bottoms went out of style, then came back in style - so will the Hard-Core MMO gaming market.

 

When you speak of ROI - and the subscription model becoming obsolete. Maybe, maybe not. 1 avenue I feel that is being underestimated is the retail price of one of these games.

 

I for one know that I spend probably 300 bucks a year purchasing new video games - not including subscription fees which probaly total another 300 a year.

 

Would I spend 150 - 200 bucks for a game that I was able to invest in long term? You bet I would. So would others. As long as we were guaranteed that the game wasn't going to be reduced to a solo snoozefest 3 months after launch.

 

LOL, so wait

 

5+7 =12

 

So now you changed your "opinion" to MMORPGs being 12 years old?

What happened to your claim of UO being first in 98 (which you had your "OPINION" landing at 14 years ago).

 

LOL your all over the board and I see when faced with facts, OTHERS Backed up as well that clearly contradict and correct your false history, you try to act like those posts dont exist.

 

WOW

 

I think you need to post in the "other" mmo vet (False) thread where they talk about WOW as the grand creator cause clearly your changing reality to suit your posts as much as them!

 

FACT- MMORPGs are 21 years old!

 

If you cant bring yourself to admitting the truth of that,

 

Why even post at all

 

PS: UO was mostly a single player game .

AC was designed as a single player game (think I grouped maybe 3 times in 2 months there) while leveling up.

 

So this 5 year cycle your speaking of, perhaps you might wanna, I dont know, reflect the actual games your speaking of?

 

EQ was largely forced grouping at launch (though a number of classes, if played right could solo after some effort, was easier just to group up)

FFXI was forced grouping

Lineage was forced grouping

 

The forced grouping started to change at DAoC (NOT WOW as you claim). SWG was very much a solo game. DDO slide back into grouping as one would expect for Dungeons and Dragons. EQ2 could be played solo but its experience was fleeting that way.

 

Point is you seem to have read up some revised history and not having been there yourself you going from 3rd hand references that DO NOT ACCURATELY REFLECT THE GAMES YOU TRYING TO SPEAK OF!

 

There is no shame in NOT KNOWNING SOMETHING

But please stop making it up as you go along.

 

UO, EQ, AC (besides NEVER being called the Big 3) were never known as the basis of forced grouping era. Only EQ accurately reflects that gaming mentality design you speaking of.

 

As the commercial says

 

NOW YOU KNOW!

AND KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE

[Squidwalker]

Yea, it's a great game in general, and I give them huge kudos for the famous BW, story arc and choice wheel. The class stories are awesome!

 

That said, some of the basic little things that make a game session really fun, that have been already, should have been in the game. Crafint is not really needed. I'm not a big crafter mind you, but I enjoy choosing a craft that gears my toon. I found I don't need too, because of quests and the occasional FP drop stuff, and using commendations to buy mods to level it up. meh. Fun but it's too easy. No drive really to try and get the better stuff. I already have it. And I'm a casual player.

 

No day night cycle is kinda lame. Not needed for content I realize, but still, a realistic factor, and should be soooo small to code. Interactive world items like chairs and stuff. I mean really, we go into a cantina and we can't sit down? Lame. The cantina should be the central hub of social interaction and gathering, but it's not, fleet is. And not even the cantina on fleet.

 

The worlds are a little sparce, not all but some seem so. My highest is only 32 so have not seen all the worlds. But my biggest dissapointment was Nar Shadaa. I mean in all the cannon, books everything, it's a huge, busy bussling place, that is crowded. It sooo does NOT have that feel to it. It feels dead, And there isn't even a cantina on the planet? Really? Cansino central, and no "cantina" content.

 

I'm hoping the first year will bring about all the basic stuff that other MMOs have been doing for a while now. Now I realize, they didn't all have this stuff at their launch, especially not even WoW. But they have a for awhile now, and it should be good.

[dandamanno]

And you feel that you're entitled to all of the above because?

 

 

I enjoy the game for what it is ... entertainment. If you're not entertained, why are you making such a big deal out of it? Close the door on the way out when you leave ... some of us are actually enjoying ourselves here (crazy ... I know).

 

I don't agree with all of the list he gave but why is it that so many people who are enjoying the game are so annoyed at other peoples suggestions for additions/improvements?

 

You should be championing improvements to the game that will make it more desirable for more people to come and play and enjoy themeslves as much as you do. After all does not more subs mean more money for Bioware and therefore (I realize this may not be a perfect linear line) a better game?

 

Unless you have a specific reason that you believe these kinds of additions should not be added to the game, that is they affect your enjoyment in some way, you should just get out of the way and let people have their say.

 

Many of us really want this to be a better game and you know what, so does Bioware otherwise I wouldn't have got the email from them last week asking for my impressions on the game so far.

 

Suggestions are one of the primary reasons gaming forums like these exist.

[Chewpaco]

LOL, so wait

 

5+7 =12

 

So now you changed your "opinion" to MMORPGs being 12 years old?

What happened to your claim of UO being first in 98 (which you had your "OPINION" landing at 14 years ago).

 

LOL your all over the board and I see when faced with facts, OTHERS Backed up as well that clearly contradict and correct your false history, you try to act like those posts dont exist.

 

WOW

 

I think you need to post in the "other" mmo vet (False) thread where they talk about WOW as the grand creator cause clearly your changing reality to suit your posts as much as them!

 

 

FACT- MMORPGs are 21 years old!

 

If you cant bring yourself to admitting the truth of that,

 

Why even post at all

 

PS: UO was mostly a single player game .

AC was designed as a single player game (think I grouped maybe 3 times in 2 months there) while leveling up.

 

So this 5 year cycle your speaking of, perhaps you might wanna, I dont know, reflect the actual games your speaking of?

 

EQ was largely forced grouping at launch (though a number of classes, if played right could solo after some effort, was easier just to group up)

FFXI was forced grouping

Lineage was forced grouping

 

The forced grouping started to change at DAoC (NOT WOW as you claim). SWG was very much a solo game. DDO slide back into grouping as one would expect for Dungeons and Dragons. EQ2 could be played solo but its experience was fleeting that way.

 

Point is you seem to have read up some revised history and not having been there yourself you going from 3rd hand references that DO NOT ACCURATELY REFLECT THE GAMES YOU TRYING TO SPEAK OF!

 

There is no shame in NOT KNOWNING SOMETHING

But please stop making it up as you go along.

 

UO, EQ, AC (besides NEVER being called the Big 3) were never known as the basis of forced grouping era. Only EQ accurately reflects that gaming mentality design you speaking of.

 

As the commercial says

 

NOW YOU KNOW!

AND KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE

 

Are you done yet? Again - Wiki clearly states that UO,EQ,AC - are considered the "Founding 3" starting in 1997. You seem to want to tie this whole other 2D graphics based games with 1st person 3D MMORPG's. Sorry - Wiki doesn't agree with you, the gaming industry doesn't agree with you, I don't agree with you, and consumers don't agree with you.

 

Where does that leave you? In your own 21 year old MMORPG world.

 

You can say all you want about reading up on revised history. I played them. I know a solo game like WoW, SWTOR, Aion, LotRO, Warhammer, EQII, DAoC, RIFT.

 

These are all single player games with a cooperative option. Please explain to me what is Massive Multi -Player about 16 man Operations? It is the same garbage that has been re-skinned under a different name.

 

Please take your alternative history lessons about MMORPG's to a place where people like to read other ficticous reports like - The truth about the JFK asassination, Area 51 and Roswell, and AIDS being an American Biological weapon aimed at drug users and homosexuals. Your theories hold just about as much credibility.

[Ghaiana]

I'm happy, I look for diversity in games, so I never stayed for years and years in the same MMO, but I tried most of them. There were some I liked and some I didn't like. I'm not the type for Korean grinders, so I'm quite happy with how SWTOR managed to pull away from the grind with stories. I'm also an avid single player RPG fan, so this suits me fine. Not said that Bioware can't improve, but I'll be around long enough for the next few updates.

[Tic-]

Are you done yet? Again - Wiki clearly states that UO,EQ,AC - are considered the "Founding 3" starting in 1997. You seem to want to tie this whole other 2D graphics based games with 1st person 3D MMORPG's. Sorry - Wiki doesn't agree with you, the gaming industry doesn't agree with you, I don't agree with you, and consumers don't agree with you.

 

Where does that leave you? In your own 21 year old MMORPG world.

-snip-

 

.

 

 

Funny thing about wiki, it also calls Neverwinter Nights an MMORPG and it obviously came out before its proffessed "founding three".

 

How does that make sense?

 

It doesn't.

 

Thats why i hate wiki.

 

Oh, and i agree with him

Edited February 14, 2012 by Tic-

[DigitalDreamz]

And you feel that you're entitled to all of the above because?

 

 

I enjoy the game for what it is ... entertainment. If you're not entertained, why are you making such a big deal out of it? Close the door on the way out when you leave ... some of us are actually enjoying ourselves here (crazy ... I know).

 

Entitled lol! Nice way to excuse garbage development. To think a game in the upwards of 150+ million dollars and four years has essentially nothing that MMOs should have, we must be ENTITLED TO RECEIVE THIS!!

 

If this game was free to play (Which in a years time I feel it will be) it would be excusable. Not with a budget that large and that long of development time. This game is an embarrassment to the MMO genre.