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Quarterly Producer Letter for Q2 2024 ×

People leaving wz is now out of control.


Jargonaut

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Yes, its a total disaster and a total joke. Spent several hours playing wzs tonight and 50% of games were just a revolving door with pugs rotating in and out constantly. It totally ruins the game. These people need to be punished.

 

Furthermore, premades should not be allowed to queue into pugs. This is just stupid.

 

And while you are at it, please nerf the hell out of healers and reduce the effectiveness of expertise. A team with two or three geared/competent healers in it makes it almost impossible to kill *anything*.

 

I'm just appalled that all of this stuff needs to be stated. A cursory look at the history of WOW's battleground PVP should have alerted the makes of this game as to what happens when these issues are left unnaddressed. As with so many things I have lost count, this game fails to deliver.

Edited by Larlar
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"It's YOUR fault we're losing because YOU left, WAAAAAHAHHHHHHHHHHH BIOWARE PUNISH THEM MEANIES!"

 

 

This is the part I can't figure out. If we can't win whether I stay or go, who cares if I leave the match? Do you really love me so much that you want me to come farm kills with you off in some corner? Do you really hate me so much that when I'm on the enemy team you want me to stay while you push my face in over and over and over for your amusement?

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You guys are quick to point that finger at someone else for your shortcomings aren't you?

 

"It's YOUR fault we're losing because YOU left, WAAAAAHAHHHHHHHHHHH BIOWARE PUNISH THEM MEANIES!"

Can you refute that a team which only has 6 people vs. 8 will most likely lose? If that 8 person team is already ahead by 1 goal in huttball, 1 door in voidstar, or 10 points in civil war, which team is most likely to lose? The team which just had 2 people quit as soon as the first goal or point was scored, or the team who still has 8 people and scored that one point?

 

Really? Can you?

 

Does a team with a full 8 people the entire match, when they didn't score that first point, have a much higher chance of overcoming that single first point scored by the opposing team, and turning the match around to win themselves?

 

Can you refute that?

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Why are complaining about leavers then?

 

AFKers get pretty much get the same rewards for staying in the match.

 

The quiters are the ones that get nothing. If they implement a deserter penalty then

Quitters stop quitting and become AFKers.

 

Quitting is the lesser of 2 evils.

 

No its not.

 

AFKers only ruin their own game. Also, AFKers will be reported and get their very own deserters debuff anyway.

 

Leavers however ruin up to 10 games in the same time period. Leavers have to be severely penalized.

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No its not.

 

AFKers only ruin their own game. Also, AFKers will be reported and get their very own deserters debuff anyway.

 

Leavers however ruin up to 10 games in the same time period. Leavers have to be severely penalized.

 

Until they fix how end game (BM gear) gear is aquired, the leaving is just going to increase as more people hit BM.

 

EDIT: Also how do AFK'rs only ruin their own game? You still 8v5 or w/e caue you have 3 afk's who every min attack someone to not get the debuff. Just saying.

Edited by dardack
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No its not.

 

AFKers only ruin their own game. Also, AFKers will be reported and get their very own deserters debuff anyway.

 

Leavers however ruin up to 10 games in the same time period. Leavers have to be severely penalized.

 

What if I queue up and enter a losing WZ immediately because someone else quit or disconnected.

 

Now I am being penalized and my time wasted through no fault of my own.

 

Even under the current system I often enter WZs where the game is already lost.

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Fixed

 

Don't spend resources on something that ain't as broke as some other things in this game....and in fact for a lot of players, works perfectly fine!!!

 

 

So what your saying is you are one of the ones who adds to the issue and quits at the first sign of a tuff game...

 

This needs to be fixed end of story

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This is the part I can't figure out. If we can't win whether I stay or go, who cares if I leave the match? Do you really love me so much that you want me to come farm kills with you off in some corner? Do you really hate me so much that when I'm on the enemy team you want me to stay while you push my face in over and over and over for your amusement?
No. What we want is punishment for the quitters so we DON'T have to deal with you quitting. Quitters gonna quit. Given. We won't have the revolving door of quitters which leaves a team constantly down 1 or 2 people, virtually guaranteeing a loss and totally un-fun match due to lack of competitive edge.

 

Please continue to threaten that you will just AFK in a losing match for 10 or 12 minutes. I'll continue to watch the sky for flying pigs and raining dogs. If it's such a waste of time for you to stay in a losing warzone that you are too impatient and just quit, you certainly won't just sit there and stare at your screen for 10 or 12 minutes doing nothing. At least not for more than a day.

 

You'll get tired of it incredibly fast.

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No. What we want is punishment for the quitters so we DON'T have to deal with you quitting. Quitters gonna quit. Given. We won't have the revolving door of quitters which leaves a team constantly down 1 or 2 people, virtually guaranteeing a loss and totally un-fun match due to lack of competitive edge.

 

Please continue to threaten that you will just AFK in a losing match for 10 or 12 minutes. I'll continue to watch the sky for flying pigs and raining dogs. If it's such a waste of time for you to stay in a losing warzone that you are too impatient and just quit, you certainly won't just sit there and stare at your screen for 10 or 12 minutes doing nothing. At least not for more than a day.

 

You'll get tired of it incredibly fast.

 

I know many people in WoW who do just that if they are loosing until they get their 1 win. They have dual monitors, they browse/watch w/e in 1 screen, with WoW in the other and just occasionally attack or w/e.

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This is a problem with all PVP games that they have never been able to fix. Try playing a first person shooter
You're talking about an entirely different genre of games and F2P games. MMO's fixed it a long time ago: quitters got punished, rightly so.

 

Problem solved. Game on.

 

Bioware just underestimated the amount of kids who would leave WoW to play SWTOR for a couple months, and expected the ones who did had already been conditioned into realizing it was better to stay, play, and have fun, or risk being penalized. BW didn't put in a penalty for these quitters. It was a rookie MMO-maker mistake, which they will soon fix; you can bet on it.

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What if I queue up and enter a losing WZ immediately because someone else quit or disconnected.

Now I am being penalized and my time wasted through no fault of my own.

Even under the current system I often enter WZs where the game is already lost.

 

The basic idea is that people will not get send into BGs that already started, because it is mostly useless anyway.

 

A BG starts with 16 people, and those 16 play it to the end, or AFK, or D/C, or whatever. The problem stays inside that BG. If you D/C, you reconnect and go into the same BG. If you AFK, you get nothing plus a debuff from your mates. If you leave, you get the same debuff.

 

Thats it.

 

You play it to the end, if you want or not. If you dont make your daily, you dont make your daily. Who cares?

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So what your saying is you are one of the ones who adds to the issue and quits at the first sign of a tuff game...

 

This needs to be fixed end of story

 

Actually no I win most of my games and I HARDLY EVER SEE A QUITTER OR LEAVER.

 

Maybe you guys just need to L2P.

 

I really don't see where there's even a problem if some people want to leave so some other people can come in during the last 2 mins and soak up free valor even if they're getting farmed they don't have to engage the battle.

 

And I only ever quit before the beginning of a match when I see one of 3 super baddies on my team (maybe one of em is you)...after it starts I stick it out.

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I wish quitters would just leave the game entirely, to be honest. If a losing match, even just a single one a day, is so incredibly unfun to them that they cannot bear it, they have a real dissocial disorder that can only be treated with professional help, and NOT via /nerdragequitting out of the warzone.

 

Although that may be what you want, you can be damn sure BW doesn't want it. Call them casuals, baddies, whatever, they are paying a subscription and if they are playing the game to have fun pvp-ing, BW is going to do whatever it takes to keep the majority paying.

 

However, I think you understate the motivation for people leaving warzones, it isn't just one game, its getting stomped on a 5-1 basis. For me, it is a simple measure of how I can most productively use my game time, as it is limited.

 

This is the part I can't figure out. If we can't win whether I stay or go, who cares if I leave the match? Do you really love me so much that you want me to come farm kills with you off in some corner? Do you really hate me so much that when I'm on the enemy team you want me to stay while you push my face in over and over and over for your amusement?

Mara, nicely put.

Edited by Turando
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What if I queue up and enter a losing WZ immediately because someone else quit or disconnected.

 

Now I am being penalized and my time wasted through no fault of my own.

 

Even under the current system I often enter WZs where the game is already lost.

What if all the world were to fall into doom tomorrow, and you don't have your full set of battlemaster gear? Would your time on earth been wasted?

 

You're digging so deep a hole here in trying to find excuses for selfish behavior, you didn't stop and realize that the tale of doom you are weaving is just more of the same defeatist, quitter mentality.

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Although that may be what you want, you can be damn sure BW doesn't want it. Call them casuals, baddies, whatever, they are paying a subscription and if they are playing the game to have fun pvp-ing, BW is going to do whatever it takes to keep the majority paying.
Uhm, the majority of paying customers aren't quitters. If you think so, maybe you should stop quitting out of warzones and see for yourself; you've deranged yourself into thinking quitters are the only people who play this game.

 

But that's usually what happens when, you know, birds of a feather...and all that jazz.

 

And if you think BW wants sociopathic, dissocial, narcissistic griefers in their game by any number, you're sadly mistaken on any level.

Edited by Nangasaur
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There is still a better system which I have outlined and no one has commented on. Don't make me start a thread about it.

 

There is no better system cause you cannot fix leaver and afker by rewarding, you can only fix it by penalizing.

 

The reason is simple... at some point in time you simply run out of rewards you can give.

 

Penalizing ALWAYS works, wether you have full T3 or T1.

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They do this and I will cancel my subscription.

 

I do not have enough time with work and family to PvP and get my dailies done unless I leave a losing match.

 

Please cancel right now. Go be with your family, leave the game to us, the people who don't quit at the first set-back and actually have some regard for people int he game other then ourselves.

 

I don't think a time penalty is the way to go, but I do think we need less people like you in this game.

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No. What we want is punishment for the quitters so we DON'T have to deal with you quitting. Quitters gonna quit. Given. We won't have the revolving door of quitters which leaves a team constantly down 1 or 2 people, virtually guaranteeing a loss and totally un-fun match due to lack of competitive edge.

 

Please continue to threaten that you will just AFK in a losing match for 10 or 12 minutes. I'll continue to watch the sky for flying pigs and raining dogs. If it's such a waste of time for you to stay in a losing warzone that you are too impatient and just quit, you certainly won't just sit there and stare at your screen for 10 or 12 minutes doing nothing. At least not for more than a day.

 

You'll get tired of it incredibly fast.

 

Actually I hate feeding kills to a team that won't hurry up and win instead of farming the full timer so much that I will sit in stealth and stare at my screen for 12 minutes, sometimes picking off a straggler here and there.

 

Admittedly, most people don't find feeding the meat grinder quite so distasteful so I could be an exception.

 

But I also pride myself on knowing a lost cause when I see one.

 

I can tell you within a few minutes which team will win the match and unless the other team is being cute and letting our side win or playing canny and convincing us that we have a chance when we don't, I'm virtually never wrong.

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Sounds like an incredible waste of time to me. And isn't that what you quitters' main complaint is: warzone losses are a waste of time, so you quit to join a winning warzone?

 

Spin it however you want, dude, throwing a temper tantrum by sitting there and doing nothing is comical at best, and narcissistic at worst.

 

I'm trying to fight for a better solution that doesn't encourage afking. I'm trying to have you guys understand a quitter's point of view. I am being constructive, and trying to remain civil. There is no tantrum, it is cause and effect. I am a leaver, and I know this is what I will do with the deserter system.

 

The better solution is allowing for the option to surrender a match. It prevents farming, and will encourage quitter to stay knowing that the match can end early if things go south. You could add a deserter penalty after that for all I care. Or one that happens when you quit within the first few minutes.

 

You may call me selfish, narcissistic or [insert self-centered synonym here] for all I care. But I know when a match is pretty much over. Its like going to a bad party, and knowing that its time to leave. You want to lock the doors and make everyone stay, me I'd prefer to leave and find a better party.

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The biggest beef that I have with quitters is when I'm brought into a WZ on the tail end of the match, my team loses, and I end up with nothing at all. Then I've lost my queue time plus the wasted time in the match with nothing to show for it.

 

That being said, I feel that incentives are the way to discourage quitting rather than debuffs or other punishments. Make it worthwhile to stay in the WZ.

Edited by Bamajawn
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This is a problem with all PVP games that they have never been able to fix. Try playing a first person shooter where it's 6 vs 6 in deathmatch and half your team rage quits and you get curb stomped every time.

 

This doesn't happen in legitimate FPS team games, and as I used to GameCast Quake 2 matches when TSN, RadioITG and GUNRadio were the 3 organizations just building the casting industry, it's an area i'm well versed in. Feel free to email DJ Wheat and ask if he knows Evil Santa.

 

That said, there are selfish FPS players -- I talked **** to Fatal1ty at QuakeCon before, for being a selfish jerk and throwing a tantrum because he showed up to registration hours after the tournament check-in closed and caused significant issues with tournament scheduling because of it. He's also not respected by most of the people behind the scenes in FPS circles because of that type of self-centered behavior.

 

FPS team games are won through teamwork, not selfish people all wanting to be the hero of the match. In a 4v4 match-up (what I casted) 2 people defend, 1 person attacks and 1 person is the item runner (grabbing gear and dropping it for defenders/attacker). In newer 6v6 games (CS/BF/MW) players take pre-defined points on the map and literally play based upon odds of a person being in their sights at timed intervals. Put a professional CS team up against 2x the amount of average players, and the CS team will win, not because they're better shots, but because they work together covering all points of possible entry from other players and shoot at timed intervals based on probability - not seeing someone in their sights.

 

Teamwork is how you win team games, not trying to play the hero - that goes for any PVP system.

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