Give me a legitimate reason to NOT have a LFD tool.

[DarthKhaos]

A better question for the community is: why don't people use the who/lfg tab and what can we do to promote its use?

The reason is because quite frankly they're idiots. Granted the tool is crude and has a couple minor issues but people would prefer to sit in fleet spamming general and not flag themselves and add a comment. They could flag themselves and set a comment and people could see them anywhere in the game including a warzone. Do you know how many times I had to point people to the LFG tool to find the same person they are hoping to find by spamming in general? "Hey look in the LFG tool there's a healer inside Huttball flagged with a comment Healer LFG HM."

 

Because I don't agree that cross server lfg is the end times incarnate and believe = a larger pool of players = more groups.

 

I'm not very good at math but that seems sound to me.

No sorry, a larger pool may be the same ratio at a basic level but it still means more groups. Assuming of course that very server is identical.

 

Was that not clear enough? Should I add more ellipses?

Want math? If the average time on server A is 20mins, server B is 50mins and server C is 1hr. With a server only LFG tool while having a smaller pool than with a cross LFG system will only have a 20min wait but with a cross server LFG tool have a 43min wait. And that is if things are ideal. A larger pool doesn't always mean shorter queues.

NOTE: All servers are far from identical with population and faction ratios.

[ferroz]

Unless you actually do something on the side, which in WoW, no one actually does.

I do.

 

In wow, if I'm on a dps, I queue up and go do dailies. I usually get my dungeon queue to pop while I'm finishing up, and then after the dungeon I finish whatever dailies I want done for the day.

 

I've done that since it released. At that time, I was doing the tournament dailies, or the wintergrasp one. Back right after cata was released, I would do the tol barad dailies. More recently, I was doing the fire lands dailies.

 

Most turn their speakers on full, go eat/toilet/smoke/coffee/TV/whatever until they hear a pling and there we go.

Source?

[oursacrifice]

it kills the ability to hold people responsible for their actions. plain and simple.

 

That's not a mechanic of the LFD. That's a byproduct of playing with people.

 

Wrong and try again.

[Heretiq]

Deleted. Edited February 13, 2012 by Heretiq

[Amiracle]

For me, atm, SWTOR feels like a huge single player game because my server is dead, and it's excrutiating trying to get a group together. A LFG system would allow me to play with other people rather than just rolling alts for the story.

 

Atm, SWTOR is something i play during Rift downtime - but originally i wanted it to be my main game. So far, it just feels like a single player game with PvP.

 

How would it allow you to do this. You assumptions...

 

1) There are people lfg when I am

2) There are people lfg for the same content I want to do

3) There are people lfg

 

And if you say yes because I see the spam in chat then why aren't you sending a whisper saying you will group up with them?

[ferroz]

Want math? If the average time on server A is 20mins, server B is 50mins and server C is 1hr. With a server only LFG tool while having a smaller pool than with a cross LFG system will only have a 20min wait but with a cross server LFG tool have a 43min wait. And that is if things are ideal. A larger pool doesn't always mean shorter queues.

NOTE: All servers are far from identical with population and faction ratios.

you're oversimplifying the problem.

 

For one: the difference in queue times between the servers does not actually indicate whether there is or isn't a difference in class/role ratios. It just means that the rate of entry into the queue is low on the 60 minute server, and faster on the 20 minute server.

 

 

Just a quick example; and yes, it's grossly oversimplified as well:

 

on server A, 3 tanks, 3 healers, and 6 dps get into groups hour. So in 5 hours, 15 tanks, 15 healers, and 30 dps get into groups

on server B, slightly more than 1/1/2, and in 5 hours you get 6 tanks, 6 healers, and 12 dps get into groups

on server C, exactly 1/1/2 per hour, and in 6 hours you get 5 tanks, 5 healers, and 10 dps get into groups

 

 

the average group formation time for server A is 20 minutes (15 groups in 300 minutes)

the average group formation time for server B is 50 minutes (6 groups in 300 minutes)

the average group formation time for server C is 60 minutes (5 groups in 300 minutes)

The average group formation time for all 3 servers combined is is 11.5 minutes (26 groups in 300 minutes).

 

 

In each case, some people will wait more than the average, some will wait less than the average.

Edited February 13, 2012 by ferroz

[oursacrifice]

It's simple: would you rather do the same endgame content over and over with random strangers or with friends who will chat and joke around? Just like your town has people you would never associate with it also has people who's company you genuinely enjoy and who make average experiences more fun.

 

The idea of community is that the time you spend in MMOland has the same social aspects as roaming the real world with friends.

 

Wait wait wait.

 

So you're honestly telling us that the LFD removes the ability to play end game with friends???

 

FAIL

[Vulgarr]

No... you can run assisnation attempts on people even though rep doesn't matter. It just means that the people running the attempt think that it matters... Not that it actually matters. again, if rep didnt matter then you wouldnt have brought it up.

 

No, you're convinced that it mattered, but really it didn't. Like I said, the worst of the worst still were in guilds. Some of them were even in the top end game raiding guilds on the server. you know how it mattered? it mattered because i could /ignore them and not have to deal with them. it matters because i can effectively delete their character from my characters existance by /ignore and they will no longer effect my enjoyment of the game. thats how it matters.

 

Certainly; ignoring people can make your experience better. It doesn't affect the people you ignore. if enough people ignore you let me know if that effects your experience. longer times in trade spamming lfg, less guilds will accept your applications. but this only works when people actually use /ignore. i do my part.

 

No, I've still got plenty of room on my ignore list in wow. last time i played wow i had a full list. maybe people were just ignoring you instead of you ignoring them? maybe you were on a better server or server group? idk what server were you on? because it seemed like bloodlust was filled with griefers, babies, ******s and all of the above.

 

 

You can do that whether there's an lfd system or not... So it's not an either/or situation.

yeah i agree wow has dissolved the community aspect of mmos, but the final nail in the coffin was cross realm LFD.

[Zhit]

The people that are against any type of LFG tool, cross server or not, can breathe a sigh of relief. There will be no LFG tool in the foreseeable future. Creating a cross server LFG tool will take some serious coding. Look at the game as it stands now. TOR in its current state took $200million+ and 5 years. Do you really think we will see a cross server LFG tool out of that development time anytime in the next year? Get realistic... There will be no LFG tool for a very, very long time.

 

But fans of the LFG tool--don't despair! BW will toss out lots of "this feature coming soon" with every developer Q&A session...

Edited February 13, 2012 by Zhit

[Introvertus]

How would it allow you to do this. You assumptions...

 

1) There are people lfg when I am

2) There are people lfg for the same content I want to do

3) There are people lfg

 

And if you say yes because I see the spam in chat then why aren't you sending a whisper saying you will group up with them?

 

 

For the third and final time.

 

Other people have already said this to you so i'll say it in plain english

 

1. my server is low populated

 

2. my server has very few people who want to do HM

 

3. On a peak time, there will be maybe 3 or 4 people, max about 5 LFG to do HM. Most of those are DPS. I'm a tank, just so's you know, and I find it hard. I cant imagine what it must be like for DPSers.

 

4. I do PM people who I see LFG, if there ever are any. Usually there aren't, but on the occasions there are, I usually get a run out of it.

 

5. So we conclude, I get one run every... week? Out of every 5 2-3 hour sittings i spend trying everything I can to find a group, maybe one of those will in fact yield a good result. Then there's still the issue of actually finishing the run, which occasionally doesn't happen.

 

I'm sorry, but that just isnt enough for me. I don't pay for this game to do that. If it doesn't improve, I'll take my sub elsewhere. I want to be able to do at least 2 runs in the space of 3 hours or so. Is that too much to ask?

 

do you understand what I'm saying? Probably not because by the looks of things your comprehension of the English language is below average

Edited February 13, 2012 by Introvertus

[DarthKhaos]

you're oversimplifying the problem.

 

For one, the difference in queue times between the servers does not actually indicate whether there is or isn't a difference in class/role ratios. It just means that the rate of entry into the queue is low on the 60 minute server, and faster on the 20 minute server.

Not necessarily. If there's just too much dps queuing? That's the main reason of the long queue times not trickling of people queuing. Also unlike wow that needs a ratio of Tanks/Healers/DPS of 1:1:3 SW:TOR has a 1:1:2 ration. That means you need more tanks and healers for the same number of DPS which would also cause an increase in queue times because people sure do love to do l33t dps.

[oursacrifice]

The people that are against any type of LFG tool, cross server or not, can breathe a sigh of relief. There will be no LFG tool in the foreseeable future. Creating a cross server LFG tool will take some serious coding. Look at the game as it stands now. TOR in its current state took $200million+ and 5 years. Do you really think we will see a cross server LFG tool out of that development time anytime in the next year? Get realistic... There will be no LFG tool for a very, very long time.

 

But fans of the LFG tool--don't despair! BW will toss out lots of "this feature coming soon" with every developer Q&A session...

 

You realize it's been announced, right?

[Vulgarr]

That's not a mechanic of the LFD. That's a byproduct of playing with people.

 

Wrong and try again.

thats a byproduct of using the LFD system you mean.

 

because i hold people accountable for their actions all the time right now in TOR. /ignore. makes my game experience more enjoyable.

 

so i guess you were wrong in saying i was wrong? how is this working again?

[oursacrifice]

thats a byproduct of using the LFD system you mean.

 

because i hold people accountable for their actions all the time right now in TOR. /ignore. makes my game experience more enjoyable.

 

so i guess you were wrong in saying i was wrong? how is this working again?

 

/ignore works in cross-server LFD tools as well (assuming they'll copy WoW's implementation)

 

So yeah, you're wrong. I was specifically asking for what's wrong with WoW's implementation of the LFD tool from a mechanics standpoint, and you jumped in touting accountability - which is a byproduct of playing with people, not a byproduct of a LFD tool.

[Heretiq]

Then why are you playing an MMO, a game genre built around a social experience?

 

Send out 3 whispers in 5 seconds then. Copy paste it, easy as that. Then you wait a few seconds for a response and you're done. Waiting for a queue that takes much, much, muuuch longer is a waste of time. Unless you actually do something on the side, which in WoW, no one actually does. Most turn their speakers on full, go eat/toilet/smoke/coffee/TV/whatever until they hear a pling and there we go.

 

Ok - listen, buddy. I see there's no reasoning with you but I'm still going to try because Darkcerb isn't giving up either.

 

I did all that - I used the LFG-channel, the /who-list, I sent whispers to people. I did all that back in the day when I played Classic and TBC WoW. And, to be honest, it was nothing but a pain in the a*s, eventhough I had a raiding guild and a full friends list. I don't ever want to have to do that again in order to find a group. I'm sick and tired of it. It's an outdated way of doing things.

 

It was not fun, it did not give me the feeling of being a part of a community. The only thing it did is waste my time.

 

I won't walk to work for 3 hours instead of driving for 45 minutes. Like I said. Go ahead and live in the stone age if you want - I don't care. I will just use my convenient quality of life tool in order to save time.

[DarthKhaos]

Wait wait wait.

 

So you're honestly telling us that the LFD removes the ability to play end game with friends???

 

FAIL

No... He's saying that it'll interfere with the largest means most people find NEW friends. I swore I explained this to you before. With a cross server system I can't add that really cool guy or good player to my friends list so that we can party up later on. This can't be put any simpler. Do you wish for me to post definitions of the words Friends and New for you?

[Bigaus]

Ok - listen, buddy. I see there's no reasoning with you but I'm still going to try because Darkcerb isn't giving up either.

 

I did all that - I used the LFG-channel, the /who-list, I sent whispers to people. I did all that back in the day when I played Classic and TBC WoW. And, to be honest, it was nothing but a pain in the a*s, eventhough I had a raiding guild and a full friends list. I don't ever want to have to do that again in order to find a group. I'm sick and tired of it. It's an outdated way of doing things.

 

It was not fun, it did not give me the feeling of being a part of a community. The only thing it did is waste my time.

 

I won't walk to work for 3 hours instead of driving for 45 minutes. Like I said. Go ahead and live in the stone age if you want - I don't care. I will just use my convenient quality of life tool in order to save time.

 

I hear Pandaland may be delayed until 2013.

 

Ouch. Another year of Cata LFD-World??? Cata can't sustain another year. Better look for another ship.

 

I have no problems finding groups even as a Republic player.. but I'm friendly, good at my class and have a decent rep with those on my server. LFD means you don't have to be 1) good, 2) friendly, or 3) not as *****-hat to get a group. That's the downside of LFD.

 

There are pros and cons to it. You choose to focus on the pros.. that's fine, but there are cons.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Bigaus

[ImperialSun]

So you're of the school of thought that getting the group should be the hard part of running a flashpoint.

 

Because that's what you're saying to every low pop server and most high pop ones.

 

Why do you keep saying that?

 

As many posters in this thread have stated, your experience is not necessarily the average. Yes, some people are struggling and as a knee jerk reaction assume LFD will solve all their proboems. Again, as many posters testify, the LFD briings problems of its own.

 

Why would you rather force mechanics into the game that it was not designed to support, rather than petition BW to sort the actual problem you are having, that of a low server pop?

 

Driz

[Amiracle]

For the third and final time.

 

Other people have already said this to you so i'll say it in plain english

 

1. my server is low populated

 

2. my server has very few people who want to do HM

 

3. On a peak time, there will be maybe 3 or 4 people, max about 5 LFG to do HM. Most of those are DPS. I'm a tank, just so's you know, and I find it hard. I cant imagine what it must be like for DPSers.

 

4. I do PM people who I see LFG, if there ever are any. Usually there aren't, but on the occasions there are, I usually get a run out of it.

 

5. So we conclude, I get one run every... week? Out of every 5 2-3 hour sittings i spend trying everything I can to find a group, maybe one of those will in fact yield a good result. Then there's still the issue of actually finishing the run, which occasionally doesn't happen.

 

I'm sorry, but that just isnt enough for me. I don't pay for this game to do that. If it doesn't improve, I'll take my sub elsewhere. I want to be able to do at least 2 runs in the space of 3 hours or so. Is that too much to ask?

 

do you understand what I'm saying? Probably not because by the looks of things your comprehension of the English language is below average

 

 

 

You are on a low pop server and instead of move to a high populated one or waiting for transfers you want Bio to create a tool just for you.

 

I understand exactly what you are saying. Me me me me me

 

And by your last statement I can see when people don't agree with you you jump to insulting people.

 

I could only imagine what you are like to group with.

 

Maybe you are the issue why you cannot find a group.......

Edited February 13, 2012 by Amiracle

[PjPablo]

No... He's saying that it'll interfere with the largest means most people find NEW friends. I swore I explained this to you before. With a cross server system I can't add that really cool guy or good player to my friends list so that we can party up later on. This can't be put any simpler. Do you wish for me to post definitions of the words Friends and New for you?

 

No but if your goal is to find super cool new friends in game you could always choose to not use the tool and only to make groups the way you make them today. Would still be able to find friends that way.

 

If your goal is to find quick groups use the tool.

 

Problem solved.

[ImperialSun]

You realize it's been announced, right?

 

Depends on your interpretation.

 

For clarity, a full blown cross server LFD has NOT been announced.

 

Driz

[Introvertus]

/ignore works in cross-server LFD tools as well (assuming they'll copy WoW's implementation)

 

So yeah, you're wrong. I was specifically asking for what's wrong with WoW's implementation of the LFD tool from a mechanics standpoint, and you jumped in touting accountability - which is a byproduct of playing with people, not a byproduct of a LFD tool.

 

You're right. It's a byproduct of playing with people. I formed plenty of groups in vanilla wow and met idiots who I later ignored. When the LFG tool came out, i only saw an increase in idiots because I had an increase in groups. The ratio of idiots:normal people stayed the same. I would have thought it mathematically obvious that whether you form a group with random people on your server, or not on your server, the chances of encountering a griefer are pretty much even, unless there are entire servers full of idiots that should be avoided.

[DarthKhaos]

2. my server has very few people who want to do HM

Could be they all don't like interacting with other people like you OR they know of your anti social ways and just don't want to run with you.

 

Looks like a control system error to me.

[Sporin]

do you really consider those less social then yourself dirtbags and lowlifes? really?

 

Would someone saying "hi" have made you all feel much better in your guild chat and or vent?

 

The hypocrisy is almost physically painful.

 

Well most "normal" people are friendly, polite, chatty.... So if your idea of being "less social" is rude, ignorant, greedy, impatient & hostile... Then yeah, it matters. REALLY!

 

And yes, saying "Hi" (which was a mere example) or any other friendliness would have been great. Your telling me you joined pugs, said nothing, needed on every roll & shouted "Faster!"?

 

The hypocrisy? Lol I won't even go there...

[Amiracle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Introvertus

For the third and final time.

 

Other people have already said this to you so i'll say it in plain english

 

1. my server is low populated

 

2. my server has very few people who want to do HM

 

3. On a peak time, there will be maybe 3 or 4 people, max about 5 LFG to do HM. Most of those are DPS. I'm a tank, just so's you know, and I find it hard. I cant imagine what it must be like for DPSers.

 

4. I do PM people who I see LFG, if there ever are any. Usually there aren't, but on the occasions there are, I usually get a run out of it.

 

5. So we conclude, I get one run every... week? Out of every 5 2-3 hour sittings i spend trying everything I can to find a group, maybe one of those will in fact yield a good result. Then there's still the issue of actually finishing the run, which occasionally doesn't happen.

 

I'm sorry, but that just isnt enough for me. I don't pay for this game to do that. If it doesn't improve, I'll take my sub elsewhere. I want to be able to do at least 2 runs in the space of 3 hours or so. Is that too much to ask?

 

do you understand what I'm saying? Probably not because by the looks of things your comprehension of the English language is below average

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

You are on a low pop server and instead of move to a high populated one or waiting for transfers you want Bio to create a tool just for you.

 

I understand exactly what you are saying. Me me me me me

 

And by your last statement I can see when people don't agree with you you jump to insulting people.

 

I could only imagine what you are like to group with.

 

Maybe you are the issue why you cannot find a group.......

Edited February 13, 2012 by Amiracle