The Pro-Toggle Thread for same gender content.

[tomshe]

That's from some fanfic comic, it doesn't really count.

 

It's not from fanfiction, Goran Beviin and Medrit Vasur were husbands.

[Sapphix]

It's not toggling on or off

 

I think 'toggle' is not the best word to use. You wouldn't turn it on or off, you would toggle between same-sex and opposite-sex romantic and flirt options.

 

 

Changing the current game?

 

I feel even the anti-toggle people want this type of mechanic. They stated that it ruined their enjoyment because they had to flirt with women. They stated that in some conversations that their companions expected them to flirt with women or that they could not complete the mission as they wanted without flirting with a woman.

 

Even if same-sex flirts where added in, do you expect to change content already in game? With the same-sex, opposite-sex toggle they could select which one they would prefer from the start and then the game could target the intended audience.

 

You would then not be penalized for refusing to flirt with someone from the opposite sex.

 

 

If you are offended flirting with the opposite sex, wouldn't it only be fair that some people might be offended flirting with the same sex?

 

Likewise if same-sex flirt options was just added in then to be equal there would have to be instances that opposite-sex preferred customers would need to choose flirt (with the same-sex) to appease their companion or complete the mission as they wanted. This would make some people unhappy - just like it made the pro-same-sexers. If this wasn't the case then wouldn't the same-sexers be offended that their options had no meaning?

 

Does this make sense? I'm trying not to offend anyone but a toggle gives everyone what they want. You're not separating or restricting content, only personalizing it.

 

 

Use the voices already in game - utilizing what resources we already have.

 

In some cases Bioware may even be able to use the female storyline options and just add in the male voices and responses (and visa-versa). This would be an easier fix than adding in completely new branches for same-sex storylines.

 

 

In conclusion...

 

Same-sex and opposite-sex preferences would change the way the storyline would unfold. It would only be fair to have a storyline JUST for the same-sex instead of trying to tact it on what is already there.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Sapphix

[mrcaptainpants]

 

If you are offended flirting with the opposite sex, wouldn't it only be fair that some people might be offended flirting with the same sex?

 

Let's not pretend these two things are equal. The people who are offended by opposite-sex flirting are mostly offended by being forced to choose that as their only option, not by the actual opposite-sex flirting content itself.

 

This is very different than being offended by the mere existence of any same-gender content in the first place.

 

My disapproval stems from the face that people who wanted same-gender content were basically left out in the cold, not because I feel that there is anything wrong with opposite-gender content. I repeat: THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH OPPOSITE-GENDER CONTENT.

 

Again, a toggle option for both kinds of content is a compromise I can live with, but having opponents of same-gender content imply that those of us who are supporting equality and inclusiveness in the game feel the same as those who oppose it is not.

Edited February 13, 2012 by mrcaptainpants

[Sapphix]

Let's not pretend these two things are equal. The people who are offended by opposite-sex flirting are mostly offended by being forced to choose that as their only option, not by the actual opposite-sex flirting content itself.

 

Lets talk about choices then. Not a lot of people are gay in the in the SW universe and same-sex flirting would be about as successful as a smuggler swaying a jedi princess. As it stands now, unless bioware makes all the NPCs bi then same-sex flirting would be meet with a lot of rejection. How does that improve the options for same-sex flirtation?

 

This is very different than being offended by the mere existence of any same-gender content in the first place.

 

I have not seem many pro-toggle posters in this thread that is against the mere existence of same-sex content.... lets not pretend otherwise.

 

My disapproval stems from the face that people who wanted same-gender content were basically left out in the cold, not because I feel that there is anything wrong with opposite-gender content. I repeat: THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH OPPOSITE-GENDER CONTENT.

 

If your cause is to advocate same-sex content then I have no qualms with that - but if you want it at the cost of my gaming experience then I think you're taking it too far.

 

Although I appreciate your acknowledgement that you have nothing against opposite-sex content, some of your constituents seem to disagree. It's almost like they want same-sex content at the cost of opposite-sex dialogue choices (ie. male smuggler flirting with a bunch of women). I repeat: I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH SAME-SEX CONTENT AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM MY GAMING EXPERIENCE.

 

Again, a toggle option for both kinds of content is a compromise I can live with, but having opponents of same-gender content imply that those of us who are supporting equality and inclusiveness in the game feel the same as those who oppose it is not.

 

Why is it not the same? I feel if Bioware adds same-sex content then it should be as meaningful as opposite-sex content. You can't have two options for two males talking. If I have to flirt with a dude to get something then I would feel as cheated as some of you having to flirt with the opposite sex.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Sapphix

[Comfterbilly]

I have not seem many pro-toggle posters in this thread that is against the mere existence of same-sex content.... lets not pretend otherwise.

 

If your cause is to advocate same-sex content then I have no qualms with that - but if you want it at the cost of my gaming experience then I think you're taking it too far.

 

Excellent post. Furthermore we've met a number of LGBT players now who've said they wouldn't mind the toggle as long as they can use it to avoid the flirts they don't want as well (including MrCaptainPants). Thanks to those members too.

 

I think when people really think about it they realize they don't want anybody making a big deal about the choices they want in their game any more than we want other people making a big deal about what choices we want in our game. I'm glad some players have been able to see it as a good choice once they realize that its all about the gaming experience instead of trying to make everything into a political statement they have to be offended by.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Comfterbilly

[mrcaptainpants]

Lets talk about choices then. Not a lot of people are gay in the in the SW universe and same-sex flirting would be about as successful as a smuggler swaying a jedi princess. As it stands now, unless bioware makes all the NPCs bi then same-sex flirting would be meet with a lot of rejection. How does that improve the options for same-sex flirtation?

 

I'm honestly not quite sure what this has to do with the part of my post you quoted, the point of which was that I felt you were trying to make it seem as though a significant number of people were actually offended by opposite-gender flirts; you then appeared to be using this (in my opinion inaccurate) statement to justify people being rightly offended by same-gender flirts. Unless someone has issues with same-gender content, I cannot see any reason why it would be offensive. Apologies if I got that wrong, but that's how I was interpreting it.

 

 

To answer the quoted part of your post, however, I would not expect all of my flirts to be successful no matter what the gender of the NPC was. I would have no problem if one of my male characters tried to flirt with a male NPC and was met with "Sorry buddy, you're not my type." Obviously, I would want the objection to be neutral in tone, and not homophobic, but there's nothing wrong with a flirt being refused.

 

I have not seem many pro-toggle posters in this thread that is against the mere existence of same-sex content.... lets not pretend otherwise.

 

Well, you are correct that this thread doesn't have many people demanding that the content should cease to exist. But I believe that is mostly due to the fact that:

 

1) Its extremely difficult to demand that such content be completely removed without revealing overt homophobia, and that isn't allowed on this board. So its not really such a strong point to claim that no one is being overtly homophobic; they aren't allowed to.

 

2) The decision has already been made; the content is coming to the game no matter what any of us say.

 

Of course, that doesn't diminish my appreciation of the fact that you and others in this thread have made an effort to keep the tone civil. Whatever understanding both sides come to will be because of honest and meaningful conversation.

 

If your cause is to advocate same-sex content then I have no qualms with that - but if you want it at the cost of my gaming experience then I think you're taking it too far.

 

I have to honestly say that I cannot fathom how I can experience opposite-gender content with no ill-effects, but if you were to see same-gender flirts it would come at the cost of your gaming experience? You must understand that underlying reasons why someone would feel it to be so objectionable (which I will not address, since they are indeed beyond the scope of this thread) are what create much of the tension in threads like this.

 

 

Although I appreciate your acknowledgement that you have nothing against opposite-sex content, some of your constituents seem to disagree. It's almost like they want same-sex content at the cost of opposite-sex dialogue choices (ie. male smuggler flirting with a bunch of women). I repeat: I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH SAME-SEX CONTENT AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM MY GAMING EXPERIENCE.

 

Again, how does being confronted with same-sex content take away from your gaming experience? The underlying message I am getting is that opposite-gender content is okay, same-gender content is not. Perhaps I am misinterpreting this, but its the impression I'm getting.

 

Why is it not the same? I feel if Bioware adds same-sex content then it should be as meaningful as opposite-sex content. You can't have two options for two males talking. If I have to flirt with a dude to get something then I would feel as cheated as some of you having to flirt with the opposite sex.

 

The reason it is not the same is because most people who are in favor of same-gender flirts are not opposed to opposite-gender flirts. They are opposed to having only opposite-gender flirt options, and that is not the same thing.

 

Incidentally, I wouldn't feel cheated at all if I had to flirt with an NPC of the opposite sex; even if a player considers his character to be homosexual, they might do a little harmless flirting with an NPC of the opposite sex just for fun, or to gain some sort of advantage.

 

Again, I would not try to oppose the idea of a toggle. But its simply not realistic to think that the idea of people requesting a feature that effectively eliminates the existence of anyone who is not heterosexual is not going to be met with some kind of disapproval.

 

Again, thank you for keeping it civil.

[mrcaptainpants]

Excellent post. Furthermore we've met a number of LGBT players now who've said they wouldn't mind the toggle as long as they can use it to avoid the flirts they don't want as well (including MrCaptainPants). Thanks to those members too.

 

I think when people really think about it they realize they don't want anybody making a big deal about the choices they want in their game any more than we want other people making a big deal about what choices we want in our game. I'm glad some players have been able to see it as a good choice once they realize that its all about the gaming experience instead of trying to make everything into a political statement they have to be offended by.

 

A very minor correction. Its not that I would personally use the toggle to avoid opposite-gender flirts; I wouldn't. As I said, I find nothing wrong with them. I just feel that if there were only an option to toggle same-gender content, that would be sending a message that said content is somehow wrong and/or offensive.

 

I'm merely saying that as long as both types of content are able to be toggled, then the message remains as neutral as possible.

 

But yes, your main point is correct in that despite my personal feelings of what it means that someone wants to toggle off same-gender content, its their game experience, not mine. I find it regretful, but would not oppose it.

[AquaSky]

Again, I would not try to oppose the idea of a toggle. But its simply not realistic to think that the idea of people requesting a feature that effectively eliminates the existence of anyone who is not heterosexual is not going to be met with some kind of disapproval.

 

Adding a toggle isn't about eliminating the existence of homosexual characters; if a gay gamer used it to toggle off hetero prompts, it wouldn't "eliminate" the existence of straight characters either. It's a way of saying "My character likes girls/guys exclusively (or both, or none, etc), so don't keep asking me if I want to make a pass at the gender I'm not interested in."

 

No matter what, it's bound to be a very hot-button issue on both sides. While an orientation option may not satisfy everyone, it seems to be the best compromise thus far.

[mrcaptainpants]

Adding a toggle isn't about eliminating the existence of homosexual characters;

 

Perhaps. However, it is worth noting that the request for a toggle for romantic flirts was never even mentioned until the idea of same-gender flirts was raised.

 

Even the title of this very thread challenges your statement.

[xyloh]

my female smuggler thinks Risa is hawt... /signed

[AquaSky]

Perhaps. However, it is worth noting that the request for a toggle for romantic flirts was never even mentioned until the idea of same-gender flirts was raised.

 

Even the title of this very thread challenges your statement.

 

I can't speak for everyone, but I don't think most of us have an issue with homosexual characters being included in the new content. The toggle option helps to skip options that some players may not use because they're not roleplaying homosexual characters. Ditto with the vice-versa. I think players should have the option of saying "Hey, I like dudes, so don't show me girl flirts." There's nothing wrong with liking one over the other.

[Altyrell]

Perhaps. However, it is worth noting that the request for a toggle for romantic flirts was never even mentioned until the idea of same-gender flirts was raised.

 

Even the title of this very thread challenges your statement.

 

Agreed

[Oceanzen]

Here's the deal. Just by offering same-sex relationship content in their games, Bioware is claiming a particular social/moral alignment. And that alignment is that gay people are acceptable. I do not believe that "turning off the gay" in the preferences menu would be an option that would reflect the social alignment that Bioware is taking just by offering same-sex relationship content.

 

They are already offering players the choice to accept or deny gay relationships in the game simply by virute of giving players the ability to accept or deny any flirt, just like it's currently offered.

 

To me this really is the end of the intellectual conversation. If you want to have a gay toggle, you are not stating your opposition to gay relationships in the game, for that would only demand that you decline a same-sex flirtation. What a gay toggle is doing is stating your opposition to homosexuality itself in your preferred universe, and by extension your real universe.

 

By this logic, Bioware has already made its social position clear and you could no more legitimately ask for a Black toggle as a Gay toggle, because neither is consistent with their position.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Oceanzen

[Oceanzen]

I should also add to my above statement that I think it would be entirely consistent with their position if they only allowed same-sex flirtation at the express execution of the player. In other words, your same-sex companion wouldn't flirt with you until you chose to offer a flirt to them.

 

If players were opposed even to the option on their wheel, well, life's not perfect for anyone. This option would simply be part of Bioware's universe and you could take it or leave it. See previous post.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Oceanzen

[Altyrell]

I should also add to my above statement that I think it would be entirely consistent with their position if they only allowed same-sex flirtation at the express execution of the player. In other words, your same-sex companion wouldn't flirt with you until you chose to offer a flirt to them.

 

If players were opposed even to the option on their wheel, well, life's not perfect for anyone. This option would simply be part of Bioware's universe and you could take it or leave it. See previous post.

 

That's pretty much it.

 

If you don't want to flirt with NPC's (Companion or otherwise) of the same gender as your own Character then do NOT select the [flirt] options.

 

It really is that simple

[mezamashii]

How about an option that lets you filter out skin colors you don't want to see?

 

Or an option to switch every npc in a position of power to a specific gender?

 

Or a list of accents and dialects we dont want to hear in voice overs?

 

Every one of these is technically feasible and can be argued for using the exact arguments used to justify the OP's request.

 

And the counter to all of them is the same... we don't need the dev or writing teams to waste time implementing content filtering for adult gamers. There are far more important things for them to spend limited time and resources working on.

 

If they open the door to one of these requests then they will need to open the door to ALL of these requests because there is no justification for a "same-sex filter option" that can't also be used for the examples I provided and many other equivalent requests.

Edited February 14, 2012 by mezamashii

[AquaSky]

...Or a list of accents and dialects we dont want to hear in voice overs?

 

Every one of these is technically feasible and can be argued for using the exact arguments used to justify the OP's request.

 

And the counter to all of them is the same... we don't need the dev or writing teams to waste time implementing content filtering for adult gamers. There are far more important things for them to spend limited time and resources working on.

 

If I could get rid of that Mandalorian chick's grating, twangy, Hee-Haw accent, I totally would.

 

But to the topic at hand, a toggle is as valid of a suggestion as whatever else seems to be drawing the most attention at the moment. Chat bubbles, perhaps ? Flagging prompts by gender should be fairly easy given that the game takes it into account currently. If it improves someone's experience to be able to tailor their UI according to their orientation, that's a perfectly valid request. Something along the lines of "Show flirt prompts for : [ ] Males [ ] Females", allowing players to choose one, none, or both, seems reasonable.

[Comfterbilly]

To me this really is the end of the intellectual conversation. If you want to have a gay toggle, you are not stating your opposition to gay relationships in the game, for that would only demand that you decline a same-sex flirtation. What a gay toggle is doing is stating your opposition to homosexuality itself in your preferred universe, and by extension your real universe.

 

By this logic, Bioware has already made its social position clear and you could no more legitimately ask for a Black toggle as a Gay toggle, because neither is consistent with their position.

 

Okay this is where the anti-toggle crowd is going to lose the "SGRA toggle is tantamount to an interracial toggle" argument, being that it is their last vestige of legitimacy in claiming this is some kind of r/l discrimination. Read carefully:

 

People who are equating an SGRA toggle to the idea of a racial toggle ironically fail to realize that in the context of the game they are refuting their own argument.

 

Why? Close your eyes and in your memory go back to launch. You install the game, you create your account, you log in, choose a server, and where does this take us?

 

A: The character creation page.

 

Q: What do we do at the character creation screen?

 

A: 1st Choice: Alignment. 2nd Choice: Class. 3rd Choice: Species/Race. 4th Choice: Gender.

 

Alignment, Class, Race, Gender. Deciding all these and coming to stage five, the game implicitly asks me another question: Hair, eyes, body type, wrinkles, head type and what color skin I want the character to have. Get it? That is the toggle.

 

If I roll a black character the game doesn't ask me at every flirt opportunity if I'm okay with interracial sex: I've already made it clear that I am by rolling a black character and flirting with the governess.

 

Anti-toggle crowd: by your logic, if you want to compare race and sexuality, the game should be asking us whether one race is flirt-worthy and another is not via [flirt] prompts every time we encounter a flirtable NPC. For all those who continue being unable to resist bringing r/l opinions into this discussion about the game: yes, it IS the 21st century - people should be further "ahead", but think: if the fight over sexuality was as far along as our attitudes toward race, everyone would calm down and realize sexuality is a choice about your character that belongs on the character creation screen and in the options panel. By arguing against the "toggle" the most unreasonable anti-togglers are effectively arguing that sexuality is not as important as race or gender, and instead of being able to choose, they are insisting that nobody be able to make a definitive "statement" about their character (and the game they want to play) when they create it - this is a gross contradiction.

 

In light of this contradiction I think its clear the pro-toggle crowd are not the ones who really need to question where they stand on this issue and how it relates to the game.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Comfterbilly

[mrcaptainpants]

If I roll a black character the game doesn't ask me at every flirt opportunity if I'm okay with interracial sex: I've already made it clear that I am by rolling a black character and flirting with the governess.

 

But what if you weren't okay with interracial sex? In your example, you say that you've already made it clear that you're fine with it by rolling a black character and flirting with the governess.

 

So if you were not okay with being a black character and flirting with an npc of another race, how would you go about showing the game you decided that? Well, by your own example, it would seem that you would tell the game you didn't approve of interracial relationships by not flirting with said governess.

 

In your own example, no toggle was needed. You simply choose, or do not choose, the flirt option with the character in question. And you seem fine with that when it comes to interracial character relationships.

 

Much of this debate seems to be centered on whether or not someone wants to play a character that is attracted to the same gender they are. But as the title of this thread is a bit broader than that, I'd like to pose a question:

 

What about content where the NPC you are interacting with -- not your own character -- is homosexual? For example, you see a male NPC that offers a quest, and upon initiating the cut scene, he explains that his boyfriend/husband has been taken hostage by some people he owes money to, and would you please help? To those of you that are requesting this toggle, what is your response to content like this? Would your proposed toggle also ensure that these quests didn't appear, even though it has nothing to do with the orientation of your own character?

Edited February 14, 2012 by mrcaptainpants

[VanorDM]

The problem with a toggle IMO, is that there are already dialog options in the game that might not be suitable to your character. I am also a RP'er and so I view each character as a unique person and not just me in a video game.

 

My main is a Jedi Guardian who is currently only a few points away from LS 4, I tend to take every LS option I can get. I turn down rewards if that's an option. I tend to help everyone I can. I have also avoided any flirt options with random NPC's, because that doesn't seem suitable to a Jedi.

 

Yet on this character I see DS options and even snarky and hostile options for dialog. I don't pick them because that's not something my character would say. The same would be true of same gender flirts. He wouldn't flirt with another guy, just like he wouldn't strike down a prisoner and give into his hate.

 

So while I can understand the point behind the request. To me this is no different then asking for an option to turn off LS/DS options.

 

I personally will not be any more offended at seeing the SG flirt option, then I am at seeing the DS option. Because the only option that counts is the one I pick.

[AquaSky]

What about content where the NPC you are interacting with -- not your own character -- is homosexual? For example, you see a male NPC that offers a quest, and upon initiating the cut scene, he explains that his boyfriend/husband has been taken hostage by some people he owes money to, and would you please help? To those of you that are requesting this toggle, what is your response to content like this? Would your proposed toggle also ensure that these quests didn't appear, even though it has nothing to do with the orientation of your own character?

 

I don't think most toggle advocates would go that far. The basic request seems to be "Let me decide if I see flirt prompts for men or women". For the majority, I doubt that extends to "Never mention an NPC's orientation".

[Racheakt]

The problem with a toggle IMO, is that there are already dialog options in the game that might not be suitable to your character. I am also a RP'er and so I view each character as a unique person and not just me in a video game.

 

My main is a Jedi Guardian who is currently only a few points away from LS 4, I tend to take every LS option I can get. I turn down rewards if that's an option. I tend to help everyone I can. I have also avoided any flirt options with random NPC's, because that doesn't seem suitable to a Jedi.

 

Yet on this character I see DS options and even snarky and hostile options for dialog. I don't pick them because that's not something my character would say. The same would be true of same gender flirts. He wouldn't flirt with another guy, just like he wouldn't strike down a prisoner and give into his hate.

 

So while I can understand the point behind the request. To me this is no different then asking for an option to turn off LS/DS options.

 

I personally will not be any more offended at seeing the SG flirt option, then I am at seeing the DS option. Because the only option that counts is the one I pick.

 

You hit on a point I think is worth pointing out. In the SW lore one is able to fall to the dark side and again be turned back to the light.

 

Is one's sexual preference (if indeed like race or gender) a fluid state that one can "turn to" or be "redeemed from"? For a person who is one preference or the other to even have the opposing flirt opion is as abnormal as having conversations options identifying yourself a Twilik even though you are a Sith Pureblood....

 

This is why I think the "toggle" should be an orientation selection at character creation.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Racheakt

[Gucio]

To me it is kinda strange they put in a flirt option in a game like this, where it fills almost no role whatsoever in the development of the questline but creates alot(?) of controversy.

Perhaps creating controversy was the whole point.

 

We have profanity filters in games, that i think are completly unnecessary perhaps in an effort to hold on to old victorianesque values, but i digress.

Since i can turn my profanity filter off and not be bothered with it for the rest of the game, its all cool.

 

The question gamewise is then, what if alot of people get bothered with another type of dialogue, or for that matter with large parts of the dialogue, should they make that part of the dialogue toggable?

Because then it can become a gamewise interfering solution where you miss out on loot or exp etc because the dialogue options you can choose become very limited.

 

The dialogue mind you isnt having a huge impact on the outcome of your missions anyway, but lets pretend it does.

 

On the other hand, making dialogue completly pointless (the outcome stays the same whatever you say) is in my opinion an option that would bring back fastscroll to the quest texts. So not a bright looking option for this game.

 

 

What people tend to forget since it becomes a big part of their lives (for some strange reason ) is that this is a GAME.

This game is not about the real world out there (you know behind your curtains), its about this world in game.

Dont take it, and for that part yourself to seriously or you will get easily offended all your life.

You will not change any aspects of our culture through this game, it was not ment for that.

If you want to change your culture, or the world culture, then there are way better mediums to do it in then this game.

 

Use the game experience to perhaps explore something you wouldnt do in your everyday life, because thats what its there for, i mean how often do you get to try and shoot up some pesky imperials?

Also how else will you get to have new experiences if not through media that actually have no other impact on the physical world more then perhaps spreading an idea and your wallet?

I think people are smart enough to see through dialogue choices as something thats only there, while holding on to their own values. I just hope that everyone learns to question their own values, but i digress again.

 

Please thou, dont make the devs into morality/politically correctness/etc. cops more then they already need to be because of most of our societies. Leave some creative freedom.

Also the old money rules argument...

[Thecooljason]

I totally agree that if same-gender content is added, that it should be able to be toggled (togglable?) That being said I would make this point. Everyone of every race, sexual preference, and what ever else have a right to play this game. But that does not mean they are entitled to have it catered to them. Many gamers would rather have BW focus on new content and bug fixes rather than add more to RP options. Edited February 16, 2012 by Thecooljason

[JTShadow]

Okay this is where the anti-toggle crowd is going to lose the "SGRA toggle is tantamount to an interracial toggle" argument, being that it is their last vestige of legitimacy in claiming this is some kind of r/l discrimination. Read carefully:

 

People who are equating an SGRA toggle to the idea of a racial toggle ironically fail to realize that in the context of the game they are refuting their own argument.

 

By arguing against the "toggle" the most unreasonable anti-togglers are effectively arguing that sexuality is not as important as race or gender, and instead of being able to choose, they are insisting that nobody be able to make a definitive "statement" about their character (and the game they want to play) when they create it - this is a gross contradiction.

 

In light of this contradiction I think its clear the pro-toggle crowd are not the ones who really need to question where they stand on this issue and how it relates to the game.

 

Your argument, while well thought out and planned in your mind by the obvious large amount of text does not make any sense. The anti toggle crowd isn't trying to censor any racial options. Noone is saying that people can't make a definitive statement about their character. You can currently roll fat, skinny, black, white, brown, blue, orange, red, young, old, freckled, withered, scarred, etc. The only thing is, no matter what you make your character has to be straight currently.

 

The anti-toggle crowd isn't trying to censor anything or limit anyones choices on anything, we just want our choice for same gender interactions. It doesn't take away the pro toggle crwds option not to click it, but the pro-toggle crowd is saying theres something so innately wrong with it that it needs to be toggled like profanity. That it isn't acceptable and should be off unless someone wants to turn it on. It should just be a normal part of the game, and if you don't want to deal with it, don't click the flirt option and move on with the rest of your life.