No Cross Realm LFG tool please!

[McBinary]

I find that people who think everyone they run into is a jerk miss the obvious common denominator.

 

This x100!

 

The fact is, all of these wild claims against a LFG/LFD tool are nothing more than speculation. They personally have had poor experiences, and nothing is more loud than someone who feels they have been wronged.

 

Actually, the only people who are even here speaking about said function are the people who either have had bad personal experience, or the ones who have had great personal experiences. Of the millions playing that other game, a very small percentage are speaking about it on forums. The other huge percentage either doesn't think there is anything wrong with it, or they they just realize that people are people.

 

People will act however they act, period. This will not be swayed by whether they are on their own server, or another. This "community ruination" idea is ridiculous.

 

Community is a term that is very respective to the person using it. It's great that some of you have had the chance to start playing with a whole group of friends, and run all the content with them, it really is. For many whom haven't experienced that luxury, the "community" isn't there. People are leveling their characters through their storyline and not bothering to stop and invest the time to get groups together to do flashpoints at the proper time, because it takes entirely too long. I see people spamming: LF dps/tank/heals on every planet I get to until they just rage or beg in chat.

 

Time is a very big factor to a lot of people, especially people like me who have children. Limited play time dictates that I either invest a large portion of my play-time trying to get a group together, or invest that time into something less frustrating like advancing the story.

 

Why should the selfish people who have a bunch of real life friends playing, or all the time in the world keep me from playing the same content as them just because they personally don't like the idea of a LFD tool? They aren't effected, they have the friends to fill their spots. I however, have neither.

[justregularjoe]

At first I'm not sure what you're saying, I should quit the game because Although I can see it becoming amazing with a few optional features you don't want them?

 

When did I say that ? Let me see... Never.

 

 

You believe in some great server community that simply doesn't exist and never has in my Eq/wow/rift release of all three experience, you believe a lfg system would destroy it.

 

You clearly never played at level 60. It was amazing...until cross server stuff started happening.

 

 

Or you believe every group found via a lfg tool that's cross server would be horrible when my own experience's like that can be counted on one hand.

 

No, I don't believe that, nor Did I ever say I did( I do note that you merely asked a question there, don't worry). I made it very clear that My opinion was that a x-server LFG system promotes apathy. You can't say my opinion is wrong, simply because opinions are just that: opinion. I say that based on personal experience only. Maybe it is exclusive, but how can I know ? I cannot, so I must base it on what I know.

 

I love your line about the current system You don't claim it's some amazing community developing tool in fact you seem to imply my point that it wastes time for no good reason and that a tool would be far better.

 

There is a current looking for group tool. People can flag themselves looking for group, and on a /who it shows them. Doesn't take much effort to type /who. Look you can just copy and paste it if you want to.

 

 

You seem to argue this point emotionally which makes no sense, you can't argue an optional feature emotionally because it doesn't need to have any effect on you if you don't need one now.

 

I am not Spock. I have not insulted anyone, raged, anything denoting an emotional response as you put it. On the contrary, you have already said you come from a low pop server so clearly you are emotionally distraught at the predicament you face on a daily basis. As I said before, your side of the argument can be much better presented with rational thoughts and examples, rather than quoting people out of context, making up things they said, assuming they said or meant one thing or another, or insulting them. I honestly don't understand why you are so emotionally charged over the issue, so much so that a balanced view escapes you.

[darkcerb]

Logically if you don't need the tool now you have a sound method of getting groups that you're happy with.

 

If that method is endangered with a cross server tool then it is only because people prefer to use it over your method.

 

So your argument becomes "Have fun my way or the high way, there can be no optional lfg tool"

 

And if it surprises you that people argue against that. Then I don't know what to tell you.

 

Keeping in mind that my belief and indeed experience of community in mmo's is found and developed within guilds if at all.

Edited February 13, 2012 by darkcerb

[face_hindu]

I actually experienced this myself: I never saw WC until I went there and soloed it at max level because it was in Horde territory and was almost impossible to get a group for and get to as an Alliance player.

 

Great post Kramer, wanted to back you up on this point specifically.

 

I only started WoW just after WotLK, as the insistence of a friend who'd been playing since vanilla. Anyway, a couple months in, he was on a new toon... we queued for a random, and ended up with WC, which I'd run before a couple times. My friend had NEVER run it, in the years he'd been playing. YEARS. And I'd run it at least twice after a couple months.

 

Basically, the LFD made that content accessible to people like me. (and we still got to queue together which was cool - queue with your friends. Like in WZ).

 

Another thing - I am a product of the x-server LFD generation, and instances were my favourite thing about WoW, just as flashpoints are my favourite thing about TOR. So x-server LFD didn't have a negative impact on me, obviously. It was, indeed, beneficial.

[darkcerb]

There is a current looking for group tool. People can flag themselves looking for group, and on a /who it shows them. Doesn't take much effort to type /who. Look you can just copy and paste it if you want to.

 

Except the tool is woefully inadequate to even display basic class information let alone that and the specifics of what group your looking for which may be why:

 

No one uses it.

[IronFirewind]

Let's put it this way. While leveling up in WoW before the LFD tool, you would almost never be able to find groups for any low level dungeons. I'm talking in WoW in the last couple years here--there are not many players leveling anymore on a single server, so you simply cannot find a Deadmines group from the selection of people on your own server. Furthermore, maybe you're leveling in Westfall, but you want to see the Wailing Caverns. I actually experienced this myself: I never saw WC until I went there and soloed it at max level because it was in Horde territory and was almost impossible to get a group for and get to as an Alliance player.

 

The cross-server LFG tool remedies both of these issues. They open up content to players in a mature MMO setting where not many people are leveling. They let you break the monotony of questing by efficiently and quickly getting you a group for dungeons that are next to impossible to get groups for without said tool for the reasons I stated above. It incentivizes grouping during a primarily solo leveling experience, even if it is grouping with players off of other servers. It allows players to see fun and interesting content that they would otherwise not see.

 

Three pretty good points there in favour of cross server. It's actually one reason why I'm thankful for "Heroic" or "Expert Mode" or "Hard Mode" dungeons since if I missed one while levelling up then I can see it at the level cap.

 

I know that in Rift before they added Server Only LFG, something I do support regardless, it's the cross server bit I'm not too keen on, there were two low level dungeons that you would miss because it was deep in the other faction's territory and it took way more effort than it was worth to get someone to the entrance. Shame really since they were some of the most fun dungeons in the game.

 

The one thing I'm not sure that has been brought up is that this game does encourage levelling lots of alts and it's not *that* hard to find people in your level range since you can just ask friends and guildmates if they have any alts they would want to switch to.

 

One thing that has been mentioned is that if server populations are so bad that they are introducing this (though we can only speculate as it's Bioware that has all the server info), then it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to open up server transfers to a higher population server and/or merge some low population servers. EA does have a history for pushing way more servers than is needed as seen with Warhammer Online, and it's possible that they may well have done the same thing here with Star Wars.

[McBinary]

 

One thing that has been mentioned is that if server populations are so bad that they are introducing this (though we can only speculate as it's Bioware that has all the server info), then it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to open up server transfers to a higher population server and/or merge some low population servers. EA does have a history for pushing way more servers than is needed as seen with Warhammer Online, and it's possible that they may well have done the same thing here with Star Wars.

 

I realize your post is objective, and somewhat unbiased, so this isn't aimed at you. I just want to point out that everyone seems to be fighting about the "community aspect" and then suggesting server transfers and mergers are the big picture that need to be discussed there.

 

If this is your argument, please explain to me how uprooting people from low population servers, or merging servers does not ruin the "community aspect" when community is a concept only conceived respective to the player? Not that I'm condoning the idea that there really is a community aspect to this game at the moment, but wouldn't you agree that lower population servers have a lot higher of a chance of actually having a community, since they may very well know quite a few people? Just as everyone knows everyone in a small town.

 

X-server options save low population servers from mergers and transfers. Effectively saving communities, rather than ruining.

[Fastin]

Except the tool is woefully inadequate to even display basic class information let alone that and the specifics of what group your looking for which may be why:

 

No one uses it.

 

It does not matter if people use it or not. The fact of the matter is that the LFG pool is only so large. This issue is two fold.

 

1) There are only so many people per server that are looking for a group. These people typically group with friends and guild mates. This means that you are out of luck if you are not in their circle of friends. Yes, I can expand my circle of friends but server populations are not increasing that rapidly. So all and all the LFG pool remains rather stagnant.

 

2) If you are attempting to do a specific dungeon outside of your servers prime-time you are truly fracked. Everyone that would normally do this dungeon are now locked out.

 

This garbage has to change. If it does not people will walk. My handful of friends and myself will be the first.

 

Either allow a LFD Random that lets people Q up for dungeons or remove the lockout. Many times I would love to help my friend get his daily BT, BP, etc dungeon done. The problem is I cannot due to lockouts. Why not let me help him and lock me out of all rewards? I simply want the ability to help him finish his daily if I have already finished mine.

 

Fix this garbage.

 

Thanks,

Paying Customer...for now.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Fastin

[Fastin]

Logically if you don't need the tool now you have a sound method of getting groups that you're happy with.

 

If that method is endangered with a cross server tool then it is only because people prefer to use it over your method.

 

This.

[Lasica]

I just did a black talon run and my group said exactly 2 sentences outside the obligatory "hi all" and "thanks for the group". I fail to see how a LFG tool, even if it is cross-server is going to ruins the wonderful sense of community the current system fosters.

[Tatami]

I was at first against a cross server lfg tool, but then I realized my server sucks and no one does any kind of freaking out of guild hardmodes. So, now I am changing my vote. This game needs a LFG tool for non pve guilded players to survive in game. The communities are already destroyed so this tool isn't going to hurt anything.

[Rigo]

I look at it like this if they my sub they'll make a cross realm LFG tool. If not then I'll go and put my money elsewhere. I'm looking to enjoy the game and I don't enjoy spamming chat.

 

If it impacts they subscriber numbers they're going to lean in the way that gets them more subscribers. If they see they're loosing subs because no cross server queing they're going to implement it and vice versa.

[HalusW]

I don't blame people for not wanting a LFD, I can understand why some people do not want it. I'm sure there a lot of people who have things fine for them right now, why would a rational human being want a tool that could potentially cause havoc to them? That being said I blame bioware for putting this mess into the game in the first place.

 

If Bioware released the game with less servers, an improved method of finding groups in the server and an increase in group size to 6 with 4 dps this game would be really great atm. Instead, we have to spend our time trying to figure out what's really best for the community when the metrics we have for discussion are limited at best. On one side we have the anti-LFD who get yelled at for wanting to defend our communities and on the other side we have people who are being told "It's your fault for getting *****, you shouldn't of rolled on that server"

 

EDIT: couldn't of Bioware foreseen these issues and done something better in advance instead of having us yelling at each other? This entire issue has divided the community and put serious damage to it

 

Good point. Regardless which side you are on, it's not much of a surprise the way things have unfolded.

[xworndownx]

It's going to be interesting to see how this whole ordeal plays out. I just use the /who list to find people. Simple enough but, I wonder what the threads will be like after the LFG utility is released.

 

Anyways, I did want to bring up something. The new LFG utility has to be cross server from one PoV. The problem I've seen the most is that not enough people are flagging themselves LFG to begin with. This could be due to the majority of the game can be done with a companion and or that the game play is more casual, who really knows why.

 

That bit of information got me thinking: If people are just not setting themselves as LFG in the current /who list then what is going to make them set their LFG after a different lfg utility gets implemented?

 

At this point the utility is on its way and no one knows how it is going to affect the community yet. It could be the worst thing to ever happen to the game or it could be the best thing. No one knows or will know until after it is implemented.

[Nitewolfe]

It's going to be interesting to see how this whole ordeal plays out. I just use the /who list to find people. Simple enough but, I wonder what the threads will be like after the LFG utility is released.

 

Anyways, I did want to bring up something. The new LFG utility has to be cross server from one PoV. The problem I've seen the most is that not enough people are flagging themselves LFG to begin with. This could be due to the majority of the game can be done with a companion and or that the game play is more casual, who really knows why.

 

That bit of information got me thinking: If people are just not setting themselves as LFG in the current /who list then what is going to make them set their LFG after a different lfg utility gets implemented?

 

At this point the utility is on its way and no one knows how it is going to affect the community yet. It could be the worst thing to ever happen to the game or it could be the best thing. No one knows or will know until after it is implemented.

 

As long as its not hidden behind layers and tabs like the current system and as long as its automated people will use it. Just like its used in other games.

 

Automated is a must. You stated one of the key reasons why /who doesnt work..People in general do not want to from a group they want to join a group! The current system dependent on leader forming a group. Leaders are rare and that is not going to change!

Denie it al lyou want but the concept is implanted in most peoples minds that he who forms the group leads the group. Even the UI labels the person as group leader.

Just look at fleet chat.. lot of people spam LFG.. almost no one spams LFM or forming group for xyz. All these people looking and wanting to do zones but very few will ever no mater what take the initiative and form the group themselves.

A automated tool takes that away and forms the group for you. With out it any lfg they put in will fail just as they have failed in every mmo that has tried out a none automated tool.

[Avians]

As player of both wow and this game, I will add that a cross-server LFG isnt really what is killing WoW. The community did take a dive when the LFG system came out. Less and less people were forming for groups and raids via Trade (esp with the new lock out systems). However, even the lack of community isn't what sucks about the LFG today. The cross-server LFG allowed baddies to join and then leave (mostly tank or heal) and whoever played DPS was left with another 30min queue. As a tank, I found myself grouping with heals and ****** dps. I know it was said before, with the Cross server LFG, you lose the opportunity to know what youre dealing with when you group up.

 

Something I loved about WoW was battlenet and addons like Recount Omen...if I could only get 1 thing to SWTOR it's Target of Target.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Paralassa
old bad content, so just removing

[face_hindu]

You know when you invite Sithtard that he sucks balls...

 

Love it. I've always been fascinated by how people tend to live up (or down) to their names (not in MMOs but in RL). e.g. you can have a Billy, a William, and a Bill, together in a room, and most people would be able to tell the Bill from the Billy after a quick observation.

 

Anyway, here are my (seriously off-topic) observations regarding names in SWTOR vs player habits:

 

Sithtard. Yeah, like you said, you know he sucks. This'll be the guy in general complaining that there's no Left or Right skillbars, then you group with him and he's a 47 Commando. He'll mostly run around the flashpoint doing whatever he feels like.

 

BountyPro. Honestly, I'd rather group with Sithtard, because at least there will be a few laughs to go with the /facepalms.

 

Da'labar Windrunner. (often a female toon). Gets upset if there's more than one Jedi in the group. If "she" says anything about SWG, just agree quickly. Be prepared to watch the cutscenes.

 

Coffeecups. Probably so old that they couldn't think of a name, so they just picked the first random object they spied on their desk. This is my favourite person to group with. I'm no spring chicken either.

 

Durkhammer. Picked this name in a game 10 years ago because "Darkhammer" was taken. Has used Durkhammer in every MMO since. Probably from a guild that has facilitated a RL marriage or two (and subsequent divorce). If for some reason he's pugging, just try not to do anything to reinforce his terrible prejudices about "randoms".

[Suturi]

Unbelievable and sad!

 

Firstly, they gave up to the histerical whiners who were complaining about long queues at release. Conclusion: they opened too many servers, dispersing the population and consequently marring the community feeling.

 

Now, they are thinking about introducing a X-Server tool to further spoil and dilute the community? Hello, BW, hellooo: is this not, supposedly, a MMORPG?? Instead of favoring community, you think it's a good idea to actually destroying it? Do you have a slight notion of what long term value and money value are? X-Server LFG tool would favor the lazy and short termish playerbase.

 

Don't you think you already commited a big mistake in the blueprint stage of the game, when you decided to aim the game for the lowest common denominator playerbase?? Didn't you granma teach you that it's important to focus, didn't your granpa tell you that you cannot bite more than you can chew?? A lot of problems, improvisations and lack of basic MMORPG features that we are suffering, i have no doubt that come from a disastrous definition of the project in its initial "blueprint" stage. In particular, they failed to properly define their target public, and now they are roaming in a no-man's-land.

 

EA/BW: you made that bed, now you have to sleep in it.

[Heretiq]

I don't know why people are still debating about this to be honest.

 

Adding a Cross Realm LFG tool will increase the game's accessibility, which will then result in more active subscriptions.

 

Now considering that companies like EA and therefore also Bioware only care about the money ...

 

Yeah. There will be a Cross Realm LFG tool. And none of us will have a choice in the matter.

[face_hindu]

I don't know why people are still debating about this to be honest.

 

Adding a Cross Realm LFG tool will increase the game's accessibility, which will then result in more active subscriptions.

 

Now considering that companies like EA and therefore also Bioware only care about the money ...

 

Yeah. There will be a Cross Realm LFG tool. And none of us will have a choice in the matter.

 

Frankly, there's not much "debate" happening - just anecdotal evidence from neanderthals about how it will "ruin the community".

 

And after getting to know this "community" - well... it's the same as that other MMO's community. Lots of great people, and lots of elitist turds.

[lorelthesecond]

Love it. I've always been fascinated by how people tend to live up (or down) to their names (not in MMOs but in RL). e.g. you can have a Billy, a William, and a Bill, together in a room, and most people would be able to tell the Bill from the Billy after a quick observation.

 

Anyway, here are my (seriously off-topic) observations regarding names in SWTOR vs player habits:

 

Sithtard. Yeah, like you said, you know he sucks. This'll be the guy in general complaining that there's no Left or Right skillbars, then you group with him and he's a 47 Commando. He'll mostly run around the flashpoint doing whatever he feels like.

 

BountyPro. Honestly, I'd rather group with Sithtard, because at least there will be a few laughs to go with the /facepalms.

 

Da'labar Windrunner. (often a female toon). Gets upset if there's more than one Jedi in the group. If "she" says anything about SWG, just agree quickly. Be prepared to watch the cutscenes.

 

Coffeecups. Probably so old that they couldn't think of a name, so they just picked the first random object they spied on their desk. This is my favourite person to group with. I'm no spring chicken either.

 

Durkhammer. Picked this name in a game 10 years ago because "Darkhammer" was taken. Has used Durkhammer in every MMO since. Probably from a guild that has facilitated a RL marriage or two (and subsequent divorce). If for some reason he's pugging, just try not to do anything to reinforce his terrible prejudices about "randoms".

 

This made me lol

[Smellis]

I do love the fanboy logic in this.

 

Yes i'd rather sit in imp/reb fleet for 6 hours chatting in general chat rather than playing the actual game.

[ImperialSun]

I do love the fanboy logic in this.

 

Yes i'd rather sit in imp/reb fleet for 6 hours chatting in general chat rather than playing the actual game.

 

Yes I'd rather sit looking at a lobby screen with a couple of drop down boxes, filters and vote/kick button all night rather than playing the actual game...

 

See how that works?

 

Driz

[lorelthesecond]

I do love the fanboy logic in this.

 

Yes i'd rather sit in imp/reb fleet for 6 hours chatting in general chat rather than playing the actual game.

 

Oh please as if you have ever spent six hours looking for a group.

 

It takes me about 5 mins atm to form a flashpoint group when I want to.

Edited February 13, 2012 by lorelthesecond

[Heretiq]

Yes I'd rather sit looking at a lobby screen with a couple of drop down boxes, filters and vote/kick button all night rather than playing the actual game...

 

See how that works?

 

Driz

 

Yeah. We see how that works. Only that your argument, unlike his, made no sense whatsoever.

 

Cross-Server-LFG will decrease the waiting time for everyone. That's a fact - plus it's fully automated so you can do other stuff while being in the queue.

 

What was your point again?

 

Oh please as if you have ever spent six hours looking for a group.

 

It takes me about 5 mins atm to form a flashpoint group when I want to.

 

And your experience in the matter applies to everyone right? What about the people with a different work schedule? The people who can't play on prime time? Those who play on lowly populated servers?

Edited February 13, 2012 by Heretiq