No Cross Realm LFG tool please!

[harpuax]

My ability to group with my friends on Mal'ganis from my home server isn't innovative? Semantics aside of course ...

 

Not at all. You now have access to everyone playing the game. Just like tons of other games.

[face_hindu]

Not at all. You now have access to everyone playing the game. Just like tons of other games.

 

You mean tons of other MMOs, right?

[Caelrie]

Not at all. You now have access to everyone playing the game. Just like tons of other games.

 

We get what you're doing, so you can stop. You're pretending that an MMORPG is like Call of Duty so you can say that a really great feature isn't that great.

 

We can all see through your trolling.

[krameriffic]

Not at all. You now have access to everyone playing the game. Just like tons of other games.

 

Like which other MMOs with sharded servers, exactly?

 

None? OK then.

[justregularjoe]

opposition to LFG tool is basically PvE heroes who are afraid the scrubs will have the phat lewts.

 

 

 

 

Man that really isn't it.

 

I want to address something

 

To me, at least "server rep " doesn't mean " OMG Everyone Knows my name and I'm amazing leet I have world first I cleared all the content "

 

Server rep to me means like this: So you are pugging a dungeon; I am a healer. I find a tank in /1 and some dps. The run is going great ! So I notice that one of the DPSers is really great, his DPS is awesome, he has got a great spec, or great gear, or W/e the case may be I don't know, I just know his damage is awesome. I'm going to add that DPS to my friends list so next time I make a group and I need his class, I will whisper him first if he is online.

 

Same can be said about a great tank, who I noticed had awesome aggro and the mobs never came at me, or if I'm on a DPS, a great healer who I really enjoyed grouping with.

 

That, to me , is server rep. Someone who I like to play with because I personally thought they were a good player. That is only my opinion, not fact. If there is a player in my group I don't feel that way about, I don't go in /1 and yell " xyz is a terribad " No. THAT is elitist.

 

You people accusing others of elitism need to know that elitist could care less about LFG - they have already cleared all the content, and have guilds where they can get players to do runs with.

 

This LFG/LFD argument isn't about elitism, it is (to me) about the general fact of "dumbing down the game ". Has anyone seen what Blizz plans to do with Panda land ? They plan to take out all the talents so there is no thought required. That is one of the main reasons I decided to try this game ~ they still have actual talent trees ! This is an example of dumbing down the game.

 

Now, if you want to argue me, so far I haven't really said anything specific but here is your chance. The common arguments seems to be "Elitists don't want LFG tool because then others can get loots ", or, "Elitists don't want LFG tool because they don't want others to enjoy the content ". These are the two most common things I have seen.

 

First off, the hard modes are...not that hard. The operations (8/16 man) are puggable, and not that hard either. The loot attained in hard modes is available just as easily for anyone to get, and its the Rakata gear ( dropped in hard mode Ops) that is the true epeen gear. The fact is, a group couldn't kill anything in HM ops because it requires a lot of coordination and probably vent/mumble etc. So, saying that "elitist don't want people to get gear" is false, because it would be unattainable anyway by ANY kind of LFG tool or system (due only to the nature of HM OPS requiring more communication over vent etc. which casuals seem to avoid or not want any part of in the first place).

 

Second, "Elitists don't want LFG tool because they don't want others to enjoy the content ". I can't speak for everyone, but if you are paying the same $ as me, you deserve a chance to see all the content the game has to offer. The disconnect comes where people believe that it should be handed to them, vs people who think it should be something that requires work to attain.

 

Let me give an example. Back in Vanilla WoW , lvl 60 content (ZG/AQ20/40/MC/BWL/NAXX) was ONLY accessible if you had a guild with a bunch of people in it. So many, like myself who played with no friends, had to make them, join a guild, build relationships, and finally work hard to gear up in order to see the content. Truth be told, all I saw @ lvl 60 was ZG/Aq20/MC/ and half of BWL. That is less than half. But even more sad, is that only an estimated (I think at the time) 3% of the wow players actually got to see the content. I was one of those people who thought I should be able to see all the content ! I payed my 15 dollars a month too! So...I joined a guild...I geared my character...I learned how to play well...and eventually saw some of it. Back then, it required work.

 

So that is it: My problem with LFG is that the content is easily available to ANYONE who is willing to put in just a tiny bit of effort to join a guild (there is guilds spamming all day long), gear your toon, make some friends, start your own guild, recruit friends to the game, roll a tank or healer. There is so many ways available to see content. Whether that content is Eternity Vault normal (easily do-able in lvl 50 blues/oranges), or Hard Mode False Emperor (requiring a bit more coordination than the Ops even), the content is there and accesible within less than an hour for anyone willing to put in a tiny bit of effort.

 

LFG removes that requirement for a tiny bit of effort. I can't imagine what kind of troll response you can even say to this, because it is 100 % true. I have already said, low pop servers should be merged, and the faction imbalance in this game is absolutely sickening, but barring those two obstacles, I feel the a LFG tool is merely a shortcut for what (I personally believe) should take just a minuscule amount of effort.

 

I am sorry for the wall of text, I am just sick of people assuming that "one group doesn't want it because of this blanket generalization" because it simply is not true. Elitists don't care - they stopped caring when the original LFG tool was available years ago.

[harpuax]

You mean tons of other MMOs, right?

 

What does genre matter? Borrowing something from another genre does not make it any more innovative.

[Deyjarl]

Here is why I'd NOT want to see this:

 

Server rep is the only measure we have for players who behave badly in pick-up groups. Once cross-server LFG is put into play, a player's rep ceases to be any concern, and all manner of ******tery ensues.

 

We saw it with WoW, I'd much rather NOT see it in SWTOR.

 

Ever.

 

Did it happen? Yes. But people really exaggerate how bad it was. The vast majority of my groups back then were perfectly fine. The number of bad groups through their cross server system was no more often than I'd find just doing groups on the server itself.

[harpuax]

We get what you're doing, so you can stop. You're pretending that an MMORPG is like Call of Duty so you can say that a really great feature isn't that great.

 

We can all see through your trolling.

 

Exactly what I am saying! A cross server que tool where you can add anyone you want from any server makes it VERY much like call of duty, only the gameplay is different.

Edited February 13, 2012 by harpuax

[Nickter]

Get used to it. Guilds are not biggotted clicks with velvet ropes that run the game from inside the game. LFG defies the ability of guilds to be exclusive nightclubs that only welcome those with similar prejudices.

 

LFG lets the game cater to everyone despite the disgusting intolerances of all the people that like to use the word troll to describe this post.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Nickter

[justregularjoe]

Get used to it. Guilds are not biggotted clicks with velvet ropes that run the game from inside the game. LFG defies the ability of guilds to be exclusive nightclubs that only welcome those with similar prejudices.

 

LFG lets the game cater to everyone despite the disgusting intolerances of all the people that like to use the word troll to describe this post.

 

 

That is just a blanket generalization. I have joined many guilds in many games and met dozens of different people. Assuming they are all the same is just...is just...assuming

[Deyjarl]

I say no to LFG Cross Server pvp whise, and pve whise.

 

There are enough people that are complete tools on my own server, I don't need some other servers garbage dumped on my game time.

 

So basically because its fine on your server, to heck with anyone on servers where it's a problem.

 

Can people be more selfish.

 

 

 

How about this, they make it cross server optional. So you can limit your own group search to your server only if YOU choose, instead of forcing everyone not to be able to do so if they want.

[Caelrie]

Exactly what I am saying! A cross server que tool where you can add anyone one you want from any server makes it VERY much like call of duty, only the gameplay is different.

 

If you want to play that game, then I can point to Battlenet, which is also Blizzard's baby. They pioneered the whole lobby game genre. Some did lobbies earlier, but never was it done with persistent characters. It wasn't even anything anyone had heard of.

 

And that brings us back to the present where Blizzard's innovation brought this idea to the MMORPG genre where nobody even thought it was possible.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Caelrie

[harpuax]

If you want to play that game, then I can point to Battlenet, which is also Blizzard's baby.

 

So nobody had a que before blizzard?

[MajikMyst]

Man that really isn't it.

 

I want to address something

 

To me, at least "server rep " doesn't mean " OMG Everyone Knows my name and I'm amazing leet I have world first I cleared all the content "

 

Server rep to me means like this: So you are pugging a dungeon; I am a healer. I find a tank in /1 and some dps. The run is going great ! So I notice that one of the DPSers is really great, his DPS is awesome, he has got a great spec, or great gear, or W/e the case may be I don't know, I just know his damage is awesome. I'm going to add that DPS to my friends list so next time I make a group and I need his class, I will whisper him first if he is online.

 

Same can be said about a great tank, who I noticed had awesome aggro and the mobs never came at me, or if I'm on a DPS, a great healer who I really enjoyed grouping with.

 

That, to me , is server rep. Someone who I like to play with because I personally thought they were a good player. That is only my opinion, not fact. If there is a player in my group I don't feel that way about, I don't go in /1 and yell " xyz is a terribad " No. THAT is elitist.

 

You people accusing others of elitism need to know that elitist could care less about LFG - they have already cleared all the content, and have guilds where they can get players to do runs with.

 

This LFG/LFD argument isn't about elitism, it is (to me) about the general fact of "dumbing down the game ". Has anyone seen what Blizz plans to do with Panda land ? They plan to take out all the talents so there is no thought required. That is one of the main reasons I decided to try this game ~ they still have actual talent trees ! This is an example of dumbing down the game.

 

Now, if you want to argue me, so far I haven't really said anything specific but here is your chance. The common arguments seems to be "Elitists don't want LFG tool because then others can get loots ", or, "Elitists don't want LFG tool because they don't want others to enjoy the content ". These are the two most common things I have seen.

 

First off, the hard modes are...not that hard. The operations (8/16 man) are puggable, and not that hard either. The loot attained in hard modes is available just as easily for anyone to get, and its the Rakata gear ( dropped in hard mode Ops) that is the true epeen gear. The fact is, a group couldn't kill anything in HM ops because it requires a lot of coordination and probably vent/mumble etc. So, saying that "elitist don't want people to get gear" is false, because it would be unattainable anyway by ANY kind of LFG tool or system (due only to the nature of HM OPS requiring more communication over vent etc. which casuals seem to avoid or not want any part of in the first place).

 

Second, "Elitists don't want LFG tool because they don't want others to enjoy the content ". I can't speak for everyone, but if you are paying the same $ as me, you deserve a chance to see all the content the game has to offer. The disconnect comes where people believe that it should be handed to them, vs people who think it should be something that requires work to attain.

 

Let me give an example. Back in Vanilla WoW , lvl 60 content (ZG/AQ20/40/MC/BWL/NAXX) was ONLY accessible if you had a guild with a bunch of people in it. So many, like myself who played with no friends, had to make them, join a guild, build relationships, and finally work hard to gear up in order to see the content. Truth be told, all I saw @ lvl 60 was ZG/Aq20/MC/ and half of BWL. That is less than half. But even more sad, is that only an estimated (I think at the time) 3% of the wow players actually got to see the content. I was one of those people who thought I should be able to see all the content ! I payed my 15 dollars a month too! So...I joined a guild...I geared my character...I learned how to play well...and eventually saw some of it. Back then, it required work.

 

So that is it: My problem with LFG is that the content is easily available to ANYONE who is willing to put in just a tiny bit of effort to join a guild (there is guilds spamming all day long), gear your toon, make some friends, start your own guild, recruit friends to the game, roll a tank or healer. There is so many ways available to see content. Whether that content is Eternity Vault normal (easily do-able in lvl 50 blues/oranges), or Hard Mode False Emperor (requiring a bit more coordination than the Ops even), the content is there and accesible within less than an hour for anyone willing to put in a tiny bit of effort.

 

LFG removes that requirement for a tiny bit of effort. I can't imagine what kind of troll response you can even say to this, because it is 100 % true. I have already said, low pop servers should be merged, and the faction imbalance in this game is absolutely sickening, but barring those two obstacles, I feel the a LFG tool is merely a shortcut for what (I personally believe) should take just a minuscule amount of effort.

 

I am sorry for the wall of text, I am just sick of people assuming that "one group doesn't want it because of this blanket generalization" because it simply is not true. Elitists don't care - they stopped caring when the original LFG tool was available years ago.

 

^^

 

Well said.. Nothing more to add..

[Caelrie]

So nobody had a que before blizzard?

 

Now you're just out of arguments.

[darkcerb]

^^

 

Well said.. Nothing more to add..

 

Yeh terrific especially

 

Let me give an example. Back in Vanilla WoW , lvl 60 content (ZG/AQ20/40/MC/BWL/NAXX) was ONLY accessible if you had a guild with a bunch of people in it. So many, like myself who played with no friends, had to make them, join a guild, build relationships, and finally work hard to gear up in order to see the content. Truth be told, all I saw @ lvl 60 was ZG/Aq20/MC/ and half of BWL. That is less than half. But even more sad, is that only an estimated (I think at the time) 3% of the wow players actually got to see the content. I was one of those people who thought I should be able to see all the content ! I payed my 15 dollars a month too! So...I joined a guild...I geared my character...I learned how to play well...and eventually saw some of it. Back then, it required work.

 

So that is it: My problem with LFG is that the content is easily available to ANYONE who is willing to put in just a tiny bit of effort to join a guild (there is guilds spamming all day long), gear your toon, make some friends, start your own guild, recruit friends to the game, roll a tank or healer. There is so many ways available to see content. Whether that content is Eternity Vault normal (easily do-able in lvl 50 blues/oranges), or Hard Mode False Emperor (requiring a bit more coordination than the Ops even), the content is there and accesible within less than an hour for anyone willing to put in a tiny bit of effort.

 

LFG removes that requirement for a tiny bit of effort. I can't imagine what kind of troll response you can even say to this, because it is 100 % true. I have already said, low pop servers should be merged, and the faction imbalance in this game is absolutely sickening, but barring those two obstacles, I feel the a LFG tool is merely a shortcut for what (I personally believe) should take just a minuscule amount of effort.

 

Where he refutes his previous point about elitist only content and insists people suck it up and play the way he wants them to, never mind server pop/how social you are.

 

He also makes mention of how hard modes arn't hard and insists finding the group is the hardcore part in so many words.

 

So no counter-argument I still say that spamming lfg is not hard or social. I love the friends listing good players as if that can't happen, have you all stuck your head in the sand the last few months? do you not know that in wow and i believe coming up in if not already rift you can friend and invite people from other servers? there is literally no logical argument against the lfg tool.

[justregularjoe]

^^

 

Well said.. Nothing more to add..

 

 

Thank you for reading

[Touchbass]

 

Server rep to me means like this: So you are pugging a dungeon; I am a healer. I find a tank in /1 and some dps. The run is going great ! So I notice that one of the DPSers is really great, his DPS is awesome, he has got a great spec, or great gear, or W/e the case may be I don't know, I just know his damage is awesome. I'm going to add that DPS to my friends list so next time I make a group and I need his class, I will whisper him first if he is online.

 

Dungeon content in this game lasts literally a week or 2 maximum. What are you going to do with your friends after that?

 

This LFG/LFD argument isn't about elitism, it is (to me) about the general fact of "dumbing down the game ". Has anyone seen what Blizz plans to do with Panda land ? They plan to take out all the talents so there is no thought required. That is one of the main reasons I decided to try this game ~ they still have actual talent trees ! This is an example of dumbing down the game.

 

The talents in this game are brain dead easy to figure out. There shouldn't even by talent points in MMORPG's anymore, it's an archaic mechanic. Everyone just picks the best optimal spec for their situation with some pointless points picked for "utility"

 

Let me give an example. Back in Vanilla WoW , lvl 60 content (ZG/AQ20/40/MC/BWL/NAXX) was ONLY accessible if you had a guild with a bunch of people in it. So many, like myself who played with no friends, had to make them, join a guild, build relationships, and finally work hard to gear up in order to see the content. Truth be told, all I saw @ lvl 60 was ZG/Aq20/MC/ and half of BWL. That is less than half. But even more sad, is that only an estimated (I think at the time) 3% of the wow players actually got to see the content. I was one of those people who thought I should be able to see all the content ! I payed my 15 dollars a month too! So...I joined a guild...I geared my character...I learned how to play well...and eventually saw some of it. Back then, it required work.

 

I don't have the time to join a guild that raids on a set schedule. That reason alone for other people is why Raids have gone from 40 to 25 to 10 to now 8 in this game.

 

LFG removes that requirement for a tiny bit of effort. I can't imagine what kind of troll response you can even say to this, because it is 100 % true. I have already said, low pop servers should be merged, and the faction imbalance in this game is absolutely sickening, but barring those two obstacles, I feel the a LFG tool is merely a shortcut for what (I personally believe) should take just a minuscule amount of effort.

 

You don't have to worry about my effort and game time, I'm an adult and can manage it perfectly. Why can't the people who don't want to use the X-lfd put in a little effort and join a guild and run with them instead of trying to ruin our gaming experience? Is it so difficult to spend a few minutes in /fleet asking or using the /who function or the inherent tools in the game?

Edited February 13, 2012 by Touchbass

[Touchbass]

Thank you for reading

 

Effort requires acknowledgement

Edited February 13, 2012 by Touchbass

[Uruare]

My sister is a Doctor of Structural Engineering and I have now asked her what her opinion is upon this grave and deeply controversial topic.

 

Her reply: "What? What are you talking about? I don't know what a 'cross server looking for group tool' is. Is it some sort of program function? What -are- you working on?"

 

 

So I told her exactly what's being discussed. Her response:

 

"A tool like that sounds...really nice, actually. I didn't know there was a Star Wars online game either. You're a bad person for not telling me this. Think I'd have time to play it?"

 

 

To which I answered, "Yeah, probably. It'd take you forever to level anything to a point where all the problems really add up to a big, ugly problem, and I think you'd have fun with the storylines. This LFG tool will be in sometime in the future; nobody knows when, but probably long before you'd be needing to use it."

 

 

To which she replied, "Well, hook me up then. I'm sure you can afford to buy your poor sister a game, hmm?"

 

 

To which I, being the sucker that I am, said "Yeah, no prob."

 

 

So, ladle all the crap you want on it, I just sold a copy of SWTOR to my -sister- specifically on the premise of an LFG tool coming down the pipe.

 

...Which I'm paying for. Because my sister is a con artist and I'm a sucker.

 

NYEAH

[darkcerb]

Oh and I love the "just merge the servers" argument.

 

It just really drives home the delusional state the counter-argument seems to be in.

 

Do you have any idea how negative a message that sends to gamers? how on every game sight on the internet will display it how much of an outcry of "dieing game!" go's up?

 

Ask warhammer how much it helped them.

 

Bioware would rather collectively stab themselves in the foot then take that route, I suppose I should thank you all for proposing it really as it drives home how much better an option the lfg tool is and how little logical concerns you can bring to the table.

[justregularjoe]

Yeh terrific especially

 

 

 

Where he refutes his previous point about elitist only content and insists people suck it up and play the way he wants them to, never mind server pop/how social you are.

 

He also makes mention of how hard modes arn't hard and insists finding the group is the hardcore part in so many words.

 

 

 

In Vanilla it took 40 people

.

.

in Swtor it takes 4/8/16. It is NOT hardcore. no part of it is hardcore. I never even said the word hardcore in my post, you are just putting words in my mouth. Go back and read it again, if you don't' believe me.

 

 

I made it clear, many times in my post, that is what my personal belief and opinion. If you cannot respect my opinion, how am I supposed to respect yours ?

[darkcerb]

In Vanilla it took 40 people

.

.

in Swtor it takes 4/8/16. It is NOT hardcore. no part of it is hardcore. I never even said the word hardcore in my post, you are just putting words in my mouth. Go back and read it again, if you don't' believe me.

 

 

I made it clear, many times in my post, that is what my personal belief and opinion. If you cannot respect my opinion, how am I supposed to respect yours ?

 

Respect does not pre-clude debate, and I agree it's not hardcore and never stated it was.

 

Perhaps you should re-read my post.

[Touchbass]

In Vanilla it took 40 people

.

.

*SNIP*

 

I made it clear, many times in my post, that is what my personal belief and opinion. If you cannot respect my opinion, how am I supposed to respect yours ?

 

This is off topic but I can't take your seriously with your avatar picture, it just really sticks out and distracts me Sorry, not trying to be rude

[justregularjoe]

Dungeon content in this game lasts literally a week or 2 maximum. What are you going to do with your friends after that?

 

 

What? Its an MMO dude, level alts, raid Ops, help your guildies gear up running hard modes, help other people gear up running hard modes, PvP, world bosses...the list goes on.

 

The talents in this game are brain dead easy to figure out. There shouldn't even by talent points in MMORPG's anymore, it's an archaic mechanic. Everyone just picks the best optimal spec for their situation with some pointless points picked for "utility"

 

If they are so easy to figure out, then why is it a problem ?

 

 

I don't have the time to join a guild that raids on a set schedule. That reason alone for other people is why Raids have gone from 40 to 25 to 10 to now 8 in this game.

 

Neither do I. That is why the 8/16 man raid is great. It is much easier to get a group together and do an OP now. I really don't see what you are arguing here...

 

 

You don't have to worry about my effort and game time, I'm an adult and can manage it perfectly. Why can't the people who don't want to use the X-lfd put in a little effort and join a guild and run with them instead of trying to ruin our gaming experience? Is it so difficult to spend a few minutes in /fleet asking or using the /who function or the inherent tools in the game?

 

I have used the /who many times to form groups. Why is it that you, or other Pro-LFG tool people, are unable to. I have /who jugg /who assassin and /who powertech in order to find a tank. I have /who sniper and /who operative to find a dps when i needed to. If I and thousand of others are able to, why can't you ?