Request to Change Project and Throw, with suggestions and examples…

[Dyvim]

All the abilities i mentioned involve some form of purple lightening shooting from range and hiting said target. They all have a different purpose but they all "look" the same.

 

If you don't believe me go over to the pvp forums and count the amount of threads were players complain that Project doesn't stun in pvp and Shock does. When they are infact talking about Electrocute which is mirrored to force stun. so dont say they don't look the same.

 

That is silly...

 

 

 

Neither is craving flashy animations

 

Probably the same number of threads complaining about project not being instant and project and throw not being clear as to which player is shooting them at you. And with the lightning you can tell where it is coming from...I love it. Very well done set of animations, true to the SITH, and they perfectly fit in with star wars lore. The consular animations can claim NEITHER of those accolades on the jedi side.

 

Like I said, they share a common theme...lightning, but the animations and the caster/toon animations are very different. If you play the class you know what to look for...or if you are just a player that pays attention. But this thread isnt about the sorcerer ani's.

 

Im not craving flashy animations, just JEDI animations. Junk throwing is darkside. Period. And in this game, the way junk is magically pulled up out of the ground or materializes out of thin air, just looks incredibly stupid and adds to the lack of jedi feel.

 

I am still waiting for someone that says they like them to actually explain how they fit into jedi lore, and point out examples in the 6 movies where light jedi throw junk. Or why junk throwing is more appropriate than kinetic force effects, as I outlined in my original post and as displayed by Satele in the Hope video. No one can, so no one does. The ani's need to be changed if BW wants to provide classes with a jedi feel that are true to the lore.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Dyvim

[XChub-ChubsX]

Agreed with OP. A+ on presentation and agruement. Sorry if i sound like a school teacher lol anyways though...

 

This is just a thought as i was looking over the suggestions in place of Telekentic Throw. So here is my suggestion.

 

Rename the skill to Telekentic Barrage (not sure if there is an ability already called it) and have the animation go something like this:Begin to channel ability, lightsaber to the side, bring hand up to your face then begin making slashes with your arm in diagonal repeating motions until the end of the channel. During the channel you send out what looks like either A- slashes of telekentic force hitting the target or B- jabs of telekentic force hitting almost like needles of sorts (if B then keep the same channel phrase as Telekentic Throw). I liked option A more but just my two cents.

[MajorMelchett]

If they can't/won't change the project then they could at least make it location accurate. If your in an area of earth/mud etc you pull rocks up from the ground, if your in a ship you pull ship parts up, if your on snow/ice you pull up ice chunks and if your on desert it's big desert colour rock clump etc etc. This way it looks correct based on the location despite being wrong for the jedi.

 

As for throw, they could use the same animation etc and just swap out small pebbles for shiney white pebbles with a glow around them instead so it looks like tiny force chunks being sent over.

 

Not sure how hard it would be to make the 1st one work, they already pull up the required items so i wonder how hard it would be to code it in to make it only use the correct items in the correct locations. The 2nd one should be easy as it's just a colour/texture change and a minor glow effect to be added.

Edited January 5, 2012 by MajorMelchett

[Alesthes]

Wonderful OP. Well-thought, insightful, positive. Even if I probably don't dislike the "throwing" theme as much as he does, I have to admit that probably his suggestions would be overall more consistent and overall cool. The animation coolness fact has certainly some role in creating a slight faction unbalance, and that should be corrected.

This is one of those cases where you hope the developers will be humble enough to listen and build upon their users suggestions...

[Mmathaiss]

In Return of the Jedi, while fighting the Rancor, Luke throws a rock at the door switch dropping the door on the Rancor. So there is one example of rock throwing in the movies.

[xlDARKSIDElx]

I agree 100% with this thread and nice job on the presentation of your argument. Throwing rocks/pebbles/random junk from the ground seems so out of place for the Consular. When I am in a pvp match and Inquisitors are running around throwing lightening around at everything, that makes sense and it fits. But then Im tanking on my Shadow and whip out my light saber and then grab a huge rock out of nowhere and chucks of rocks to the at the enemy? Im not even outside. It just feels out of place and doesnt flow well.

 

In the many Star Wars books I have read and games, throwing around junk to fight your enemy has never really been a main ability. But using for kinetic abilities like your examples of Satele fit so much better into the game. They make sense with the class, never feels out of place, and its what your used to seeing in the Star Wars lore. I really really hope they address this. It makes my class feel kinda out of place, in an already out of place looking character (Body type 3 Male Consular....yeah...I look cute? lol)

[fendergibson]

The lag caused by the animation on project needs to go! It should be instant -> instant damage. Not making us wait 2 sec until the damage actually hits, which it currently does.

 

It's annoying seeing that the sith mirror classes doesnt have the same problem, and their "project" mirror ability hits instantly.

 

Force wave also has animation lag, and same with mind crush. it simply ruins the gameplay.

 

Bioware, balance and fix the game please!

[Anasazzi]

I came to the Jedi Consular forums for the same exact reason as the OP did. And lo and behold, there it was, the top topic. I read it all and I cannot agree more with the suggestions already put forth.

 

Please let's NOT throw rocks and pebbles at our enemies. We deserve cooler animations than that.

[RuQu]

I absolutely agree.

 

As soon as I hit 10 I started using disturbance exclusively when soloing because I hate those animations. Admittedly she is only lvl 14 now, but as a telekinetic I am glad that my skills are centered on disturbance and force wave.

 

My shadow tank (highest char) still gets stuck tossing droids around. She is the character closest to Satele in the videos, but throws droids and pebbles instead of the awesome force attacks we see Satele use.

 

I really enjoy the feel of both Sage and Shadow, but these two animations are absolutely the worst.

[JTTex]

I completely agree with the OP. Since I first started playing the Consular, I thought it was a little odd that he had the ability to pull random debris from the ground to throw it at enemies. Works well enough on Tython, but not so much on Coruscant.

[corroforce]

I agree 100% with the OP. Thanks for putting in the time and effort.

[Anasazzi]

UP UP UP UP UP times 1232109381!

 

DEVELOPERS READ! DEVELOPERS ANSWER! DEVELOPERS CONSIDER!

 

PLEASE!

[Tesia]

I agree wholeheartedly with this thread.

 

The suggestions that you have suggested are absolutely brilliant. Our Project ability should be instant and shouldn't have a travel time; it should look like a force ability with the golden white glow like everything else.

 

Not only that but project has a stun for standard targets. Why not include this with a force push like ability that can knock them to the ground for those 2-3 seconds? This ability is begging to be given a force push instant animation.

 

It should be an instant push of the arm and vrooof, boom into the target.

 

I cannot stress enough how much I agree with this. Really, BioWare, please, PLEASE take these into consideration.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Tesia

[Beefmachine]

This is awesome. Great proposal and I have issues with the way the animations are right now. It doesn't feel like something a Jedi would do. Jedi are not about raw strength imo but finesse and efficiency. Attacks should not be flashy and they should be swift. IMO only a enraged Sith would uproot random bits of metal to hurl at an opponent ( seriously imagine how much force / time this would really take.) While a Jedi would want to quickly subdue the target a "jab" of the force would do the trick without destroying the environment.

[Xarko]

This is awesome. Great proposal and I have issues with the way the animations are right now. It doesn't feel like something a Jedi would do. Jedi are not about raw strength imo but finesse and efficiency. Attacks should not be flashy and they should be swift. IMO only a enraged Sith would uproot random bits of metal to hurl at an opponent ( seriously imagine how much force / time this would really take.) While a Jedi would want to quickly subdue the target a "jab" of the force would do the trick without destroying the environment.

 

Thats indeed very true

[Frybrain]

Honestly, I'm 100% fine with the animations. I don't really care either way.

 

The REAL problem is how project isn't instant damage!

 

Inquisitors lightning is instant, and project probably has lost me so many warzones. I can't count the amount of times I would have interrupted a bomb arming/disarming but I didn't because of the stupid *** delay.

 

It really grinds me gears

[Infleto]

Oh god change the animation. the pebble attack is so stupid

[seven_deadlies]

I love how many people also think that rock throwing inside a ship is lame.

 

Honestly, I'm torn between a Shadow and an Assassin.

 

Shadow throws rocks everywhere.

 

Assassin gets lightning.

 

Shadow uproots entire astromech droids.

 

Assassin gets lightning.

 

 

So far, I'm leaning Shadow. But only because Khem keeps getting in my way of clicking on anything. And Qyzen has the common sense to stay to my left side instead of immediately behind me.

 

Fix Khem's navigation, or fix the animation, and I'll have my decision =)

[TrueAce]

u got my vote

[Stormtime]

I was planning on complaining about these very things as I had looked forward to becoming a Sage for several months before release. Once I finally got involved in the game play I kept thinking that the pebble and rock throwing would certainly be upgraded or replaced by new and better spells. Wow, was I wrong. I still don't understand the basic concept of why we project debris at target anyway? Agree Turbulance finally offered the first glimpse of how our attacks should look.....but way to far along in the process and all other attacks should grow from this. Amazing post that describes awesome potential. I also have a sith sorc simply becuz I love the spells. BW owes it to everyone else to even this out....make the Sage look amazing, please!

[Rei_ayanami]

I am 100% agree with you suggestion. But I doubt BW would listen to any of your suggestion. Just take a look at the crafters and their suggestion.

[LIFEFORM]

Totally agree as well. I didn't mind the object throwing of project, but it needed to happen much faster at least, like an instant throw instead of ripping it out of the ground and holding it their before throwing it, but a blast of force solves that problem and would probably look cooler.

 

I want to point out that Shadows need a lot of lovin too. In addition to sharing the Project and Throw issue, I find that my Shadow tends not to look very cool at all, very static most of the time. I figure a class that features the weapon of Darth Maul should be as acrobatic as Darth Maul. Satele pulls it off fine. Twice in the Hope trailer, at 2:41 and 3:33, she does a spinning flip over her opponents. The rest of it is all motion, swinging the saber all over the place, using both ends of it, and lots of spins and body movement, then at critical moments she uses the force to turn the tide. In contrast, in-game shadows get this:

 

Saber Strike: One of the best looking animations we have for general saberstaff combat. And it gets a bunch of cool looking finisher animations if you kill an enemy with it. Unfortunately, it's only used when we're out of force power and so rarely breaks up the monotony of the main rotation.

 

Double Strike: One of the least cool animations, it's just up-down, up-down, every time you hit it, which is going to be a lot especially in infiltration spec where most of combat is spent hitting it twice followed by Project. This should be more like Flurry from previous KOTORs, a series of three or more quick flashy spinny strikes that make us look like saber masters instead of trainees practicing form over and over. It's replaced in infiltration spec by:

 

Clairvoyant Strike: Which is pretty cool on its own, throwing the saberstaff like a yo-yo, but gets very repetitive as the most used infiltration spec ability. As an occasional big-damage ability it would look great, but over and over and over again? I signed up to fight with a saberstaff, not a yo-yo.

 

Force Breech: I use it every cooldown, as a big-damage instant-cast with not that much force required. And I love the concept, as I have ever since reading the Shatterpoint novel. Trouble is I almost never see the animation. It just blends in to all the other bright glowy effects going on and lacks all of the power that the numbers actually say it has. I just think it needs a bigger sound effect and flashier GFX.

 

The rest of the animations are alright but rarely used as either specific requirements need to be met to use them, or do little damage, so as it stands the worst looking animations are used the most. I enjoy my class but I would love it with the suggested changes to Project and Throw, and with better animations for these Shadow abilities as well.

Edited January 10, 2012 by LIFEFORM

[kevshootit]

Totally agree as well. I didn't mind the object throwing of project, but it needed to happen much faster at least, like an instant throw instead of ripping it out of the ground and holding it their before throwing it, but a blast of force solves that problem and would probably look cooler.

 

I want to point out that Shadows need a lot of lovin too. In addition to sharing the Project and Throw issue, I find that my Shadow tends not to look very cool at all, very static most of the time. I figure a class that features the weapon of Darth Maul should be as acrobatic as Darth Maul. Satele pulls it off fine. Twice in the Hope trailer, at 2:41 and 3:33, she does a spinning flip over her opponents. The rest of it is all motion, swinging the saber all over the place, using both ends of it, and lots of spins and body movement, then at critical moments she uses the force to turn the tide. In contrast, in-game shadows get this:

 

Saber Strike: One of the best looking animations we have for general saberstaff combat. And it gets a bunch of cool looking finisher animations if you kill an enemy with it. Unfortunately, it's only used when we're out of force power and so rarely breaks up the monotony of the main rotation.

 

Double Strike: One of the least cool animations, it's just up-down, up-down, every time you hit it, which is going to be a lot especially in infiltration spec where most of combat is spent hitting it twice followed by Project. This should be more like Flurry from previous KOTORs, a series of three or more quick flashy spinny strikes that make us look like saber masters instead of trainees practicing form over and over. It's replaced in infiltration spec by:

 

Clairvoyant Strike: Which is pretty cool on its own, throwing the saberstaff like a yo-yo, but gets very repetitive as the most used infiltration spec ability. As an occasional big-damage ability it would look great, but over and over and over again? I signed up to fight with a saberstaff, not a yo-yo.

 

Force Breech: I use it every cooldown, as a big-damage instant-cast with not that much force required. And I love the concept, as I have ever since reading the Shatterpoint novel. Trouble is I almost never see the animation. It just blends in to all the other bright glowy effects going on and lacks all of the power that the numbers actually say it has. I just think it needs a bigger sound effect and flashier GFX.

 

The rest of the animations are alright but rarely used as either specific requirements need to be met to use them, or do little damage, so as it stands the worst looking animations are used the most. I enjoy my class but I would love it with the suggested changes to Project and Throw, and with better animations for these Shadow abilities as well.

 

TOTALLY agree with everything in here....i ended up switching to guardian as main, but i always check consular forums JUST to see if any dev's have noticed our feedback

 

but I also feel very "meh" when playing shadow, the animations just don't look very cool at all, I get that BW wants consulars to be more "subtle" and that vision works for sages...but its just a reality that SO many people want to play a more "darth maul, shatele shan" like acrobatic shadow with the double-bladed saber...

 

I REALLY hope devs are watching this and considering our feedback

[Jairec]

They're not all bad. I feel like Project has a very gratifying smash to it and the posture you assume for TK Throw is pretty slick and elegant. Still, I feel like the ultimate result is that I feel more like an earthbender than a jedi.

 

I look at my JK friends, constantly limned with blue kinetic "fire," and I feel pretty jealous. Pure TK > rocks.

[Dyvim]

Thanks for all of the postive feedback, folks.

 

My sage is approaching 50 now, and after having played with the animations and now looking at the endgame gear, I am still pretty disheartened about the class.

 

Appearance, in both animation and gear is CRUCIAL in this game given the emphasis on endgame gear and cinematic combat. And consular bothers me unlike any other class (my shadow is lvl 13, and I plan on leveling him next). My sentinel is approaching 50. I have guardian, vanguard, commando, scoundrel, juggernaut, sorcerer, assassin, Powertech, and Operative toons at various levels.

 

The tattered, "rags" look of the endgame gear is puzzling/unaccetpable. Consulars are the jedi diplomats...if some crazy looking jedi shows up to negotiate, whose robes are UGLY and in tatters, they should be laughed at, not listened too...and why do they go from elegant, if not effeminate robe designs that look like something nobles would wear to RAGS at endgame...please explain that? Someone run out of ideas?

 

WTH was BW thinking with this class. Rocks and Rags? Really guys? These animations and endgame gear need SERIOUS work. The theme, the style is ALL wrong for them. It would be ok for a druid or a shaman. NOT a jedi at the HEIGHT of the Republic. Jedi are not some old crazy hermits that have been in hiding from the empire for 20 years, like in ANH.

 

I am VERY disappointed in BW here...they have completely missed the mark...for people that havent seen them yet here are some of the models for the endgame pvp consular Champion and Battlemaster gear. I ABSOLUTELY loathe these looks and they function as a HUGE disincentive to play the class and put in the effort to get the gear. Even the ridiculous, oversized pauldrons are RAGGED.

 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/214/consularrag.jpg/

 

The centurion set looks even worse, if you can imagine that...

 

Really guys? THIS is the gear Im supposed to spend dozens if not hundreds of hours obtaining??? Are you guys nuts? JEDI NOT SHAMAN please. And the shadow ability that causes a ring of rocks to circle you...huh? Rocks? Again with the rocks? Where are they coming from on a starship or spacestation??? Why ROCKS? Why not some kind of FORCE barrier? Pls lets have a dev TRY to explain this gear, animations, and overall theme for the class...nah, nevermind that, it cant be done in a star wars jedi context. So just change it please.

 

Really, change this please....Get rid of the rock theme. Even people that like it cant EXPLAIN it in the context of what we all expect from a jedi class based on the movies. And the animations make no sense...jedi cant generate rocks out of thin air, or magically pull them up from places they could not exist.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Dyvim