It drives me CRAZY that Kira uses a double bladed saber AND have force leap. Leap is SO awesome and by far my favorite ability. I originally REALLY wanted to play a shadow, but the lack of a cool leaping gap closer got me to roll a JK. so wish shadows could leap like kira...or knights could use a double saber

sadly, I agree originally, this was a great idea based on aesthetics. The OPINION of many people that the consulars attack animations just aren't that great overall. Some people do like them yes, but its within the rights of others to express to BW their opinion that they'd like them changed. arguments about physics or the "force morality" of tossing rocks vs using force energy attacks are kinda pointless in my opinion. we had a good thing going here, I say keep the discussion civil and simple I think consular animations could be aesthetically cooler if they changed a few things around and added a few more cooler "force wave/push" sort of attacks

I'd be TOTALLY ok with this.... I think both sages and shadows would LOVE to have some sort of saber throw... maybe could use animation from clairvoyant strike ???

clairvoyant strike IS the reason I want to play a inf shadow !!!!!! I LOVE it, I only wish shadows got the ability FAR FAR sooner and I WISH i could use it as a TANK its KILLS me that I can never spec kinetic combat and still use this attack but seems like im the minority....at least in this thread

quick compromise: 1. Put the "project" animation on "Telekinetic throw" kinda fits with the delay, having to stop for a sec to rip out the object and toss it 2. Rework the animation for "project" and make it a quick "force push" looking attack, with waves of force, like daul maul did to obi wan in phantom menance and shatel does in the "hope" trailer. That animation seems to work better (in my opinion) for quick attack that can be made while running. Then both sides might be "happier" Projects fans still get to toss stuff as a core ability and people who hate it get a faster, more "forcepower" looking attack. will anyone miss Telekinetic throws pepples all THAT much?

WOW.. first off.. THANK YOU to everyone for your support/advice second, my bad... i AM using underworld trading NOT treasure hunting, just spaced calling it the right name. second... WOW, i had NO idea crafting was THIS difficult... I am literally going to have to read through this whole thread again to decipher the best route to undo my mistakes. I was thinking that getting EVERY recipe would be the way to go so that I had more options of stuff to sell/trade/RE, but sounds like I need to be very very selective in what I craft and what recipe's I buy. thanks for the advice. Still a bit confused about WHEN to sell vs RE, but I'll re-read the sticky guides again, they do a great job explaining mechanics, but I need more "crafting philosophy" verses the nuts and bolts of how it all works but overally, this isnt fun I mostly wanted synn b/c i thought it would give me the best chance to get lots of good options for jedi armor... but that hasn't played out that way at all, hoping that vision comes to fruition as I level

I HAVE read the sticky's at the top of this forum. I am a pretty casual player, my main is only 24 atm. I think i understand SYNTHWEAVING so... I send my companions out on missions as often as I can, alternating between arch and treasure hunting. I visit the SYNTHWEAVING trainer as often as possible and purchase all of the new recipes that i can. I craft new items whenever I have enough materials to do so. If I can use the stats on my new items, I do so, if not, I R/E trying to get new schematics Wash, Rinse, Repeat correct? so why am I am totally OUT of money, I have a cargo FULL of materials, not not enough of certain materials to actually build anything atm, and my gear isn't all THAT great, I have gotten maybe 4-5 purple schematics, most of which aren't heavy armor so they don't even help my jedi guardian i really dont want to re-roll and start ALL over with building skills what am I doing wrong here?

I agree with you that the argument that ONLY dark side can throw rocks doesnt hold much water, my opinion is that consulars would be cooler if they didnt have to throw rocks SO much. Seems like the class is really designed around the rock throwing as their core spammable attacks. obviously, im making a HUGE assumption, but i think it would really benefit the gameplay experience of a lot of people if consulars (shadows especially) were given more OPTIONS into how their character played. e.i. keep the rock throwing in there for people who like it, but give them a bit more variety in their ranged attack animations (esp if the class is designed around their constant use to be viable) and im not even counting the "non animation" of a lot of the consular attacks like force breach, which doesnt even have any real "look" to it.

TOTALLY agree with your ideas about revamping the jedi, some of the most iconic jedi's DIDNT wear robes all the time, in the movies, MOST jedi took their robes OFF before combat, I like the tunic with boots look for jedi, but the lack of options other than robes with hoods should be improved

YES PLEASE, walking is very very very annoying in a game this size, the speeder taxi helps, but still has LONG stretches of running back and forth...no need other than to try and make us play LONGER, which is actually leads to a greater sense of "wow, I played for two hours and only got a few missions done... why am i paying for this?"

interesting, this has seemingly introduced a new dynamic into my gameplay experience, I'm finding myself deciding to play certain certain characters simple to grind them to the right level to play with friends nothing worse than FINALLY getting a chance to play with a friend and we spend the first part of our evening hashing how WHERE we can even play together and still have a good experience I WISH BW would think through this issue bit and implement a few systems to help make teaming with friends easier I read the another big mmo soon to be released is going to scale their "dynamic events" so that characters of various levels can all enjoy them and team together regardless of level and their is no "punishment" of xp for playing with lower levels or higher levels

TOTALLY agree with your opinion that the shadow class has some pretty lackluster aesthetic qualities. Is it a viable class mechanically? yes. But there are LOT of people who find the animations, gear options and companions just not at the same level as some of the other classes in the game. what is really disheartening is that in many of the cool cg trailers for the game, we are introduced to a jedi flying around with a double bladed saber, wearing cool looking combat/warrior looking gear who has some awesome flying spinning attacks and throws out some sweet-lookin' force attacks... none of which are options for shadows as they are represented in swtor (at least for the first 30 or so levels, but thats another issue altogether) and P.S. just ignore the mmo snobs who tell you that you have no right to share you OPINION about your personal experiences with the game and ask questions unless you have so many level 50's or whatever

Thanks for all of the great suggestions, I'll bounce around a few ideas with buddies, was hoping to avoid the need to "juggle alts." It's taken me this long just to get ONE character to 22, can't play too much, but still more than my friends. I also LOVED the sidekick system in CoH, best MMO idea EVER !!!! I understand BW doesn't want people skipping over their content... maybe there is a compromise? but i do think BW should look into this...at some level.

anyone have any suggestions?

So I convinced several RL friends to give SWTOR a chance, we are all huge star wars fans and several of us have played MMO's together before (guild wars, coh) but we are also all fathers and husbands and our playtime opportunities are "inconsistent" we are finding it quite the hassle to try and play TOGETHER even when we do coordinate and all get on at the same time ISSUES: -so hard to share content when we are different levels, If I wanna use my level 22 knight with my friends lvl 12 smuggler, I'm perceiving that I pretty much RUIN his xp gain and he's not able to come "up" to help me with any of my missions. Is this all as intended? -pretty time consuming for higher levels to even GET to where their lower level friends are playing, I thought when I got my ship that this would be easier, but it doesnt really even seem to be, with docking and all that, i'm still spending a lot of time traveling just to get back to content i've already covered or to another origin planet. -is PVP really the only option? none of us are serious PVP'ers and the notion that we'd only be able to do missions together IF we worked to "stay close in level" would prolly be enough to drive most of my friends back to other mmos and wait for GW2 are their any systems I am missing to help people play with RL friends at different levels? PLEASE bioware, implement some sort of "side kick" system that allowed lower leveled characters to be "buffed" just enough to be able to come enjoy a GREAT PVE game with their friends that they signed up to play with

AGREED !!!! so time consuming to try and actually TEAM with RL friends who at different points in game. gotta be systems to implement to make playing with others easier

FOCUS people... FOCUS For those who do like the project animation, I wonder if you CHANGED the way it was used, if it would help with the overall disconnect? I really think the current "boulder/debris toss" animation should be 30 m for ALL consulars, sages AND shadows. (and sith mirrors) I personally think the animation would be a LOT more bearable if it was a situational "tree" ability (maybe balance?) that SOME consulars could go with if they really liked it.... make it a 30m "stun" with a short casting delay (just like it has now) but could be used more as an "opener"/knockdown that runner like CC ability verses the core standard consular attack that neither every build must spam a lot. just a thought, that might appease boths sides of this debate

I would love to have some sleeveless ninja shirt kinda options for shadow upper body gear, matched with some padded bracers, fingerless gloves and some decent boots, and I think you can build a "Jedi martial artist" motif that is different from knights enough to look distinct. And at least give shadows who can't get the thought of "dress" outta their heads. options are always good

So I love the concept/vision/gameplay of shadows. I LOVE double bladed sabers. I just feel like shadows lack a "coolness" aesthetic that knights have. I have read a ton of complaints about animation blandness, limited clothing options and "somethings missing" opinions of forums about shadows. so I wanted to offer a few suggestions/options that i think might help with shadows overall aesthetic feel: Some cool, "NINJA" looking gear options - Obviously more pants, some more padded bracers, figerless gloves, combat boot options. Maybe even a whole "sleeve-less ninja shirt" motif that would be distinct in its own way. More Ninja, less mage don't give rid of robes, just more options if that's not your thing Change Force Breach to a short range saber toss - Replace the very "blah" and hard to see animation for force breach with the incredibly AWESOME animation from "clairvoyant strike" but make it 10m and available to ALL shadows early on. it is SUCH a cool looking attack and it feels way UNDER-utilized as an infiltration only level 40 attack (and melee?). I really think all shadows would LOVE having this attack as part of their core rotation and having it at 10m gives us a VERY cool saber toss that is still very different from the Jedi knights 30m slower, arcing, saber throw attack. 42 is WAY too long to wait to get this attack Change the animations for both project and telekinetic throw - Couple of ways to do this, but PLEASE change the rock throwing. One great idea is outlined in THIS THREAD. fast, powerful looking "force attacks" just feel more "shadowy" to me that rock tossing. shadows should be about quick striking. Longer Range Project - If you are going to keep project (and I know a lot of shadows still like it, then consider making it our 30 meter "opener/gap closer" ability. 10 m just seems awkwardly too short range to build up enough momentum for throwing a boulder and maybe the "delay" would be less annoying at 30 m as well. The sage version just "feels better" at that the longer distance. And shadows could definitely use something for a better 30m opener. Maybe use projects animation for "Force Stun." (which is also a bit under-whelming) Knocking down our opponent at 30 m with a boulder while sprinting towards our enemy seems way than the current iteration, in my opinion. A flying "force lunge" attack - Giving Shadows a slighly less "rooted to the ground" feel. Animation options included a 10 m "flying force kick" or a "lunging shadow strike" you could even add a "blur effect" to the lunge to make it feel like the shadow is using the force to propel himself foreward to "spear his attacker" I think that would feel EPIC !!!! make it only usable for targets < 20% health and it becomes a shadows mid-range finisher COMBINE some of the saber animations - As has been stated in these forums numerous times, many of the early saber attacks are a bit slow and blah. Combine a few of the attacks so that there is more of a progression and more diversity in the animations when using base attacks, like double strike, will help shadows overall aesthetic feel. Maybe add a reverse pivot (like knight have with master strike), or the spin above your head and swing down attack, to the chain of attacks . I know those cooler animations come later, but maybe having those new "skills" be PASSIVES that just add the new animations (and better damages/effects to pre-existing attacks will help with both the shadow's feel as well and cut down on the over-abundance of key-binding management that this game seems to have. just my opinion.

TOTALLY agree, I don't want to be insulting to the artists assigned to the shadows, and it probably was a vision dictated to them: "we want all consulars to mostly wear big, flowing robes that look like mages/monks" but, my opinion, is that there is a disconnect aesthetically, shadows need "some" level of "cool melee, utility fighter" to their apparel, like Darth Maul, Shantel Shan, etc obviously more pants, cooler, more rugged boots, bracers etc would be awesome. maybe give shadows a whole line of "sleeveless ninja shirt" kinda motif ????

I am really not having a good experience with it so far. I make gear, sell it and STILL I'm always out of credit. Maybe there is a trick t RE but I havent figured it out. I'd rather NOT have to spend hours and hours figuring stuff out on the forums just to be viable with my crew skills when other skills are easy cash and a lot less confusion. I am losing a lot of money sending my guys on mission after mission and i never seem to make up enough by selling what I make... and more often that not, I am always missing just ONE ingredient to build stuff. and don't even get my started on some of the "mysteries" of how many of each armor piece i need to make to advance to the next "tier" I WISH that BW would just TELL me what I need to do for that verses making me search and search on the forums to know how to use a skill in just the right way to be able to make money

I took S-weaving, arch and underground.. I regret it BIG time. I hardly have any money b/c I spend it all on missions...that get my crafting materials and I can use to create gear that I really don't need for the money part, even stuff that is "better" is minimally better, verses getting AWESOME buffs from stims. a lot of the crew skills lack balance in my experience

so much of this feels like BW was REALLY scared of everyone rolling Jedi melee, so they designed AWESOME non-jedi classes, Feels like they thought through several cool mechanics to give each of the those classes a viable means of competing with Jedi. (cover, lots of CC's, short cool-down AOE ranged attacks, etc) Seems like all the ranged classes were giving SEVERAL tools to ensure that they each felt very capable and powerful in their own sense. Thats awesome.. I am VERY glad BW was able to figure out ways to make those classes feel EPIC in their story... BUT.... then it just "feels" like when they were designing Jedi Knights, they were sure to put in lots of "safeguards" to make sure that the Jedi weren't OP. (long cool downs, attacks that only work in certain situations, less defense against certain damage types, complicated, multiple button mechanics mastery required just to survive, etc) In the end, you get Jedi melee classes that feel very..... human As I run around the planet my knight is currently on.. ALL I see are Jedi Knights that are 4-5 levels ABOVE the level of the content. I can see WHY BW's metrics are showing that people aren't having a problem in PVE, everything we fight in standard mission is way way below us. I only am able to do heroics and such because I am running 6 levels above my planet and I STILL don't feel OP running heroics with a full team. I understand BW's fear that if Jedi's feel TOO awesome, then no one is going to roll a trooper or smuggler, just don't go TOO extreme in that regards and make Jedi Melee a exercise in feeling weak

I do like the variety, and I understand there is a healthy tension/balance between, button mashing a few keys requiring little skill and "you NEED to spend a lot of time remapping all of your keys AND a naga gamer mouse just to be able to have any fun." thinking the current build of the game requires too much button watching does not necessarily mean that you don't have "skill" or that you want to "dumb" things down. The key to life is finding a flexible happy medium. I just don't think BW has found it yet based on my experience

seriously, I am afraid that the direction of this discussion is going to ruin the devs perspective on your GREAT aesthetic idea for the game. this idea has a LOT of support b/c of the vision you have set forth for cooler ANIMATIONS in the game. I really think that argument is greater than the "good Jedi can lift objects, but not throw them" argument. you've really got a good thing going here.. please don't derail it for the wrong reasons. I honestly think people like your idea a LOT because they want to use the jedi in the way you've described, not simply out of "loyalty" to the consistency of star wars 'cannon"