Aurinax Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 "I pay my subscription" is the most pathetic excuse possible for intentionally degrading the quality of gameplay for others. Your $15 < The rest of the teams' $105. Did I just curbstomp everyone in this thread that has tried to pull that card? I think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airoper Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) The Mighty Ven Zallow is not pleased with you lack of zeal for killing! Edited February 11, 2012 by Airoper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayneDancer Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 1. Change warzone daily and weekly to require finishing Warzones; not winning. 2. Triple the amount required from 3/9 to 9/27 so it still kind of feels like effort. 3. People stick around til the end more often, reducing overall leaves and therefore improving camaraderie between teams due to playing with the same people that joined more often. 4. ???? 5. Profit. The only thing that would accomplish is AFK botters in Warzones. No thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurinax Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 The only thing that would accomplish is AFK botters in Warzones. No thanks. >Implying that doesn't already happen and would become worse were this change implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBninjaX Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 "I pay my subscription" is the most pathetic excuse possible for intentionally degrading the quality of gameplay for others. Your $15 < The rest of the teams' $105. Did I just curbstomp everyone in this thread that has tried to pull that card? I think so. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justadude Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Alderaan, trailing from the start, down about 370 to 235, we lost 3rd turret. We won the game 5 - 0 on the last tick. "Never Give Up! Never Surrender!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calista_ZK Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Joe Smith has no time for "Morons" that can not do warzones correctly. Add in the fact that there are still too many bugs and glitches in each warzone that contribute to an edge to one side in the first 2 minutes, not 5 minutes and slant the outcome. it is easier for "Joe Smith" and myself to just leave, and force a quick lose to everyone and try again on the next warzone pop. There are plenty of warzone pops to have an equal start on. Now if the 8 players just blow then there is no reason to leave early. Get your commendations, your easy minimum 4 medals and stick it out...it will be over soon enough. I am paying to play the game as it is presented to me. I am not here to be your friend. Join a guild and queue as a premade 4 and then you know at least your 4 man will not leave early. "Joe Smith" should roll a pre-made and not waste people's time by deserting. No, I don't necessarily want to be your friend, but for 15 minutes I should expect a team player, not a selfish brat. You can't assume why the others joined, or if that match can't be turned around, in all cases. Agree with OP. Edited February 11, 2012 by Calista_ZK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Let's take two worlds, one world where everyone always sticks until the end, and another world people always leave as soon as it looks like they're losing. Assume all games are played 15 minutes completion, and a queue time of 5 minutes. Assuming completely average luck/skill for the player. In the first world it takes 20 minutes per game X 6 (play 6, win 3) = 120 minutes to win 3 games on average. In the second world, since everyone is doing the exact same thing you gain no advantage for leaving. Since people are leaving and there's a 50% chance the first person join the WZ is on the losing team, there's a 50% chance of all wins to not count, so in the second world your win rate is still 50%, but 50% of the game won't count. You need 20 X 12 (play 12, win 6, only 3 count) = 240 minutes to win, plus all the games you quit immediately without playing to completion. The closer you're to world 1 (ideal world), the faster it is for everyone to finish their dailys in light of the current win not counting bug. Now some people may say who cares if everyone is doing better as long as I'm doing better. But this shows a complete lack of undestsanding of Prisonner's Dilemma, which basically says cheating is only useful if you are the only person cheating. I can assure you that you're not the only person on the server who thought leaving is a good idea, so most of the advantage you gain is canceled out by the fact that other people are doing exactly the same thing. Your chance to win a game is not really significantly improved if there are significant others doing the same thing, because your game will be subject to wild fluctuation in roster. Even if your team is indeed stronger, it is quite possible another guy who is less risk adverse on your side decides to leave if your team didn't score in the first minute, and that leaves you a man down which made your team, which was originally stronger, actually weaker while waiting for the replacement. I've seen people leave teams immediately that'd win 6-0. I've seen people join teams up 4-0 and immediately leave. Whatever their reason to do this, in the current environment just seeing a stronger team is no guaranteed to win since people leave for all kinds of weird reasons. Since the win-not-counting bug is directly related to how often people quits, this bug more than wipes out any possible gain you may gain from quitting games because you're not the only person on the server who quits when your team is losing, yet there's a 50% chance the losing team has the first person who joined the WZ. Note that even without the bug, it is not necessarily advantageous to try to 'cheat' the system, because the amount of time you spend in queue can be considerable. Someone who sticks to all his game is likely to have shorter queues since he'll often be queuing at the same time as 15 other people, which means he'll wait less between games on average. Right now giving reason for leaving is not about excuses. It just shows you do not understand that leaving the game at all greatly increases the chance of all games not counting, and you will definitely be on the receiving end of this bug too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefling Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 People leaving WZ's is more a product of the rules in place. People will do whatever they are allowed to do. If someone that leaves could not que up 5 seconds later, you would see the number drop over night. ---- I for one, do leave at times but not for being 2 points down. I leave when being 2 points down and seeing yet another AFK bot on my team that spends 10 minutes trying to run through a corner some place. Down on points and no chance to come back due to somebody paying $79 to get to 50 without effort and breaking my game in the process, is not my idea of fun. Bioware needs to add a timeout for leaving and get control over the no effort bots using WZ's for XP and credits. XP and credit rewards in WZ's should be based on effort! Meaning, objectives, damage and non-self healing, and nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zgodsill Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Op, the stupidity on this thread is astounding. What you have said is 100% correct and I fully support you. If you don't want to be a team player, don't play PvP. Easy as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourTwent Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 As Republic, I actually DON'T usually have enough time to complete the PvP warzone daily. And that's ok. I turn it in every 2-3 days and still get my bag. It's not the fastest progression and I'm ok with that too. If I wanted to be full geared in a week I'd reroll Sith. This guy gets it right here. Who freaking cares(other than your mother) if it takes you two days of playing to get your daily done? Just because it's called a daily doesn't mean you HAVE to do it every day. Hell, with as many people completing their Weekly in 1 day(yes, even on republic side) I wouldn't be shocked if they increased the required # of wins for the daily/weekly. I understand the desire, the WANT, to get your daily done so you can optimize your gear grind. But guess what? The game isn't going anywhere(hush all you negative ppl ) you'll still be able to complete it tomorrow, or the next day, or the day after that. I wouldn't doubt if half of you are the type to leave a Warzone if you dont faceroll your opponent within the first 30 seconds(you deserters disgust me) and/or expect to complete your daily in the first 3 warzone attempts. I've already addressed the issue of people not having enough time. That is their issue to deal with, not to enforce it on the other people that queued for PVP having enough time. If you can't supply the time to play losing matches to get your win, then you should not be playing. In the past you've gone 6-7 matches without a win? So? Just because it's a daily doesn't mean that you have to complete it daily. Last night I got home from work (I work bankers hours, normally leave at 530) at 1030pm. So I'd be classified as one of those that "doesn't have time". It took me 3 hours before I got my first win towards the daily. It was MY DECISION to stay up later to complete that daily, which affects ONLY ME and not the people I play with. Had I left those (more than 6-7) matches that were losing I could very likely impact the outcome of the game. The point again is that leaving affects the rest of the group, not you only. By the way, there were two matches in that time period where my team came back from a 3-0 or 4-0 game to 5 points. Unfortunately we lost both of them but it just shows that the first 5 minutes most definitely do not determine the outcome of the game. Another logical poster. You deserters should take note of this guy's intellect and respect for the game(and fellow gamers). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kreugen Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Blah blah another selfish post that leaves out the fact that when they quit, someone else is stuck replacing them, wasting that person's time. Your actions affect others, that is why there needs to be a penalty for quitting. Also, yes, the daily/weekly should be changed to not require a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KraithFjorn Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 People are saying they leave the PVP matches because they do not have enough time to complete dailies when they get in losing games. I'm sorry but that is just a selfish, childish excuse. No, it's a valid reason to leave. Honestly, people leaving warzones early is an issue, and one that needs to be addressed. But not without first addressing the fact that the current daily for warzones is incredibly unfair. A good daily would be one that you have to work for, but simultaneously doesn't require either a membership in a PvP guild, or the luck of getting a good team. I'm sure there are some people out there who are God's gift to video games, and can carry 7 players to victory, but they're a minority, and need to accept that. As for everyone else who has things besides video games to do on a daily basis, we need a daily that does require effort, but doesn't have a completion time random enough to range anywhere from 45 minutes to an upwards of 5 hours. Be it a damage/protection/healing "quota" that an individual can meet over their collective warzone experiences for that day (and thus minimally dependent on whether or not you get lucky with a good team), a medal requirement, or something of the sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cychotec Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Really? Pay your sub? Pay MY sub for wasting my time coming into a game that has already 0 - 5 for the other side. You should be punished for being a deserter. You are not playing the game the way it should be played, one side has to lose in order for the other win. Both sides have to pay there $15. The only reason you should be leaving a match is if real life calls. Game jumping until you get a win is tantamount exploiting in my opinion and I feel should be punished as such. Your sub doesn't matter if you are the cause of a negative experience for other players. If I have to keep wasting my time entering games that are already half over because of your selfishness, this will lead to the end of my subscription. legit players sub > cheaters sub. Yes you are a cheater. And there should be a consequence for this. This idea that if these cheaters are punished they will unsub is ridiculous. I'd like them to call that bluff. I fully believe that a good amount of the deserters are simply following suit. One of these cheating exploiters leave a game, so another says well, if he left why can't I? Once a punishment is implemented the exploiter will unsub (good riddance) and the follower will start playing as they are supposed to. If you don't have the time to lose, get a team together and learn how to win. Paying your sub does not mean you have the right to exploit in order to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmov Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I've already addressed the issue of people not having enough time. That is their issue to deal with, not to enforce it on the other people that queued for PVP having enough time. If you can't supply the time to play losing matches to get your win, then you should not be playing. Me leaving losing match is yours issue to deal with,not mine,so dont enforce it on me.I dont know you,i dont like you,i dont care about you,you dont have any sort of authority over me,so i will play as i see fit and do my daily in 1 hour by leaving bad teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pallais Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I've already addressed the issue of people not having enough time. That is their issue to deal with, not to enforce it on the other people that queued for PVP having enough time. If you can't supply the time to play losing matches to get your win, then you should not be playing. In the past you've gone 6-7 matches without a win? So? Just because it's a daily doesn't mean that you have to complete it daily. Last night I got home from work (I work bankers hours, normally leave at 530) at 1030pm. So I'd be classified as one of those that "doesn't have time". It took me 3 hours before I got my first win towards the daily. It was MY DECISION to stay up later to complete that daily, which affects ONLY ME and not the people I play with. Had I left those (more than 6-7) matches that were losing I could very likely impact the outcome of the game. The point again is that leaving affects the rest of the group, not you only. By the way, there were two matches in that time period where my team came back from a 3-0 or 4-0 game to 5 points. Unfortunately we lost both of them but it just shows that the first 5 minutes most definitely do not determine the outcome of the game. :chuckle: I hope you do realize that you're being selfish, too. You want people to play in a manner that maximizes your fun + time&effort. Which is selfish. You might want to drop the name calling, pot, as it is counter-productive. Focus on things that reward the behavior you want for yourself and the ones that drop. Now, as far as dailies go, yes, people amazingly expect dailies to be reasonably doable each day. Honestly, they expect dailies to be doable within an hour or so. Dailies aren't the goal of playing each day, but the 'chores' we do to get to our goal. In a game which is supposed to be fun, no one wants to work on a 'chore' all night. The current daily quest is broken. It doesn't serve the folks that want to just finish them nor do they serve the people that want to see games end with a full complement of starters (barring disconnects, I'm looking at your Voidstar ><). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azjhinra Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 The real solution is to get rid of gear progression in PvP. Without the need to complete dailies or stay ahead of the 'gear curve', people could concentrate on enjoying the game for the sake of PvP itself. I mean isn't that what everyone on these forums is always suggesting? That you play for the fun of PvP and not for the gear? In reality, we all know exactly what would happen if everyone queued into warzone matches or Ilum in a preset of gear that was matched against all their opponents, with no rewards to obtain other than the pure joy of evenly matched competition.. The PvP population would dry up in an instant. Sure, there would be a small contingent of PvPers who would hail the second coming of DAoC or some other old MMO that they remember with rose colored glasses, but in the end, we all know that without the promise of some reward, most players wouldn't bother with PvP at all. It's the reward that most players find enjoyable, not the PvP itself. Until that mentality changes, you're going to continue to see whatever behavior enables them to obtain the reward as quickly as possbile. Whether that be medal farming, cherry picking matches, or rolling PuGs with premades, the objective is to "suffer" through the PvP experience so they can get their rewards. You can institue deserter defuffs, cross server matches, ranked warozones, whatever. The players will still find the method that enables them to obtain the most "medals/valor per hour" and continue to perform it regardless of whether they enjoy or not. The reward, to them, is worth it and is all that really matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scootle Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Dailies shouldn't be win 3 WZs they should be: a. Pass the Huttball to a player who then scores b. Score the Huttball c. Capture a Turret on Alderaan d. Interrupt a player from planting a bomb in The Voidstar Complete 30 of these types of actions. THAT is the only solution to getting people to not leave. THIS. the win-criteria to complete the quests is a complete failure when 90% of the time, the people play like crap and have no intention of winning the WZ objectives... instead they persist to farm personal medals and just play as if every game is Quake Deathmatch. it's maddening and frustrating when you just want to get your daily done. i've had some sittings where i'm sitting there going on 3+ hours to get the 3 wins... that is just silly. it's ridiculous how badly people play in general when it comes to teamwork and achieving objectives... of which 99% of the blame goes on the devs for over-emphasizing medal count and scoreboard standing over playing like intelligent human beings on a playing field. Edited February 11, 2012 by scootle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aikagi Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Agreed that the dailies should be objectives, and not just a generic win. I think the biggest isssue is that at the moment, the only way to get BM bags is through the dailies. If that wasn't the case, you'd probably see more Battlemasters+ sticking around for the entire game, instead of leaving at the first sign of trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pallais Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 In reality, we all know exactly what would happen if everyone queued into warzone matches or Ilum in a preset of gear that was matched against all their opponents, with no rewards to obtain other than the pure joy of evenly matched competition.. The PvP population would dry up in an instant. Maybe. People have played FPS games for years without any sort of gear progression. It isn't unreasonable to think that people might _not_ abandon warzones. MMOs don't have to have a gear progression if there are other things to motivate them. It is, at least, worth discussing. As far as I go, I'd like to see all the pvp gear on the Centurion vendor be cheaply available for credits. Make *those* items the starter pvp gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seriasx Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Adding any type of debuff will fix nothing because leavers are not the problem, the match maker is the problem. Have the matchmaker account for - Gear - Even starting numbers - pug vs. premade Fix those actual issues and people will stop leaving because matches wont be 1 side running all over their opponents it will be two nearly equally geared, equally starting player wise and pug vs. pug or premade vs. premade. The majority of players have no interest in spending their time being walked over by some geared no lifer who has nothing else to do all day, those players can play against each other and maybe even learn how to play the game outside of randomly pecking 1 through 5. Fix the problem - Matchmaker Leave the symptom of the match maker alone - players leaving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piriste Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 It should be like this: Each loss gives 1 point towards daily Each win gives 2-3 points towards daily Increase point requirement for weekly and daily by 2-3 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Leavers are and have always been scum. As are those who defend them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griminal Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 That's about as good as the people justifying pirating software because they don't have enough money to afford the software in the first place. How is this a bad justification? If they don't have money then they weren't going to buy it anyway. And since the act of pirating is simply making a copy, there is no loss of any property at all. So you are saying sharing is a childish thing? Ok gotcha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briljin Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Feel free to disagree, but if you are by all means post your justification. Because I want Bioware to fix things right if they are going to make any changes. You know what they say about opinions right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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