carbocat Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) This is not 1 to 1 situation, but in general My rotation/dmg vs a heavy armor: Hidden strike 1700 dmg,- backstab 800 dmg, -shiv 600 dmg, - LAc 500-700 dmg. Follow up with another stun, then backstab same dmg,- shiv same dmg,- lac same dmg. Total dmg in 7 abilitys = 5900 dmg and with 1.5 sec cooldown this is in 12 sec + THEN we take a commando dmg/rotation vs light/meduim armor: grav rounds 3000+dmg, grav rounds 3000+dmg, Interupt! grav rounds 3000+dmg, grav rounds 3000+dmg, grav rounds 3000+dmg, grav rounds 3000+dmg, grav rounds 3000+dmg, ]Total dmg with 7 abilitis(same abilitys 1button class = 21000 DMG This is balanced YO! Edited February 10, 2012 by carbocat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow_Spec Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 What about interrupts... Doesn't that make the game balanced? How about LoS? I guess if you don't use those, I guess balance is an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbocat Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 What about interrupts... Doesn't that make the game balanced? How about LoS? I guess if you don't use those, I guess balance is an issue. This isnt 1 to 1 situation, its general what the two classes can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow_Spec Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 This isnt 1 to 1 situation, its general what the two classes can do. If you stand there and let him do it, then yea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealBoz Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Every single grav will crit every single time for 3.5k damage. Yes, it will. This is a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pashgan Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I have a secret of happiness for you: stop playing PvP in this game. First you'll feel some discomfort - maybe even narcotic abstinence-like painful sensation. But a week later you'll be so happy I expect you to name your firstborn son in my honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulcheg Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 This is not 1 to 1 situation, but in general My rotation/dmg vs a heavy armor: Hidden strike 1700 dmg,- backstab 800 dmg, -shiv 600 dmg, - LAc 500-700 dmg. Follow up with another stun, then backstab same dmg,- shiv same dmg,- lac same dmg. Total dmg in 7 abilitys = 5900 dmg and with 1.5 sec cooldown this is in 12 sec + THEN we take a commando dmg/rotation vs light/meduim armor: grav rounds 3000+dmg, grav rounds 3000+dmg, Interupt! grav rounds 3000+dmg, grav rounds 3000+dmg, grav rounds 3000+dmg, grav rounds 3000+dmg, grav rounds 3000+dmg, ]Total dmg with 7 abilitis(same abilitys 1button class = 21000 DMG This is balanced YO! Fresh 50 versus battlemaster? It was so nice to pwn people, when you were 49, and then you ding 50, and you start to see some strange things, like people not dying in a few shots, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soonerjohn Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Every single grav will crit every single time for 3.5k damage. Yes, it will. This is a fact. Hehe, on my alt I did get a run of 6 crits once. It was glorious! I personally believe commandos are too strong compared to melee, but it isn't grav round that makes them that way. It is ranged just has the advantage over melee in this game in group play. In 1v1, I think the game is decently balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobaFurz Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) If you stand there and let him do it, then yea. What he says it that the class has heavy armor, healing a shield and does has a similar or even higher dps capacity, plus this all ranged. Its about dps and surviveability not about interruption, you can interrupt other classes aswell. In 1v1, I think the game is decently balanced. Probably, thats why we see so many videos or discussions about duels. Edited February 10, 2012 by BobaFurz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbocat Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 And just to say it, its so funny when a premade join with 4 commando healers, love it! /sarcasm off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobaFurz Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 And just to say it, its so funny when a premade join with 4 commando healers, love it! /sarcasm off I hear so often about commando healers, but not much about BH healers. Whats the reason here ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilifus Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 And just to say it, its so funny when a premade join with 4 commando healers, love it! /sarcasm off not a chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soonerjohn Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I hear so often about commando healers, but not much about BH healers. Whats the reason here ? Tracer missile spam just looks alot cooler than grav round spam, so they all stare at their screen drooling while watching the missiles. Much better than healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadspectre Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) If you've done any sort of actual PvP'ing in this game for a large amount of time, you'd realize that armor values mean pretty much jack here. I don't think there isn't a time in a fight outside the first initial 1-3 seconds that I don't have an armor reduction effect on me. Let's not get into how many classes have passive armor % penetration too. The only thing that matters is when classes get/use the % damage reduction CD's that can't be bypassed or negated. I play a Vengeance Jugg for reference. Edited February 10, 2012 by Dreadspectre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwal Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 A) The commando has no sheild. B) Grav round is a 1.5 second channel (OP is comparing it to a load of instant cast skills) C) He can't vanish and has less CC. Basically his damage output is the same. The commando has more hp/defense. The commando has to used channeled skills (unless they are assault/pyro) The commando cannot vanish/stealth at all. This is balance, most of the nerf threads are really: "I got outplayed by class X when I feel my class should be superior!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 This is not 1 to 1 situation, but in general My rotation/dmg vs a heavy armor: Hidden strike 1700 dmg,- backstab 800 dmg, -shiv 600 dmg, - LAc 500-700 dmg. Follow up with another stun, then backstab same dmg,- shiv same dmg,- lac same dmg. Total dmg in 7 abilitys = 5900 dmg and with 1.5 sec cooldown this is in 12 sec + THEN we take a commando dmg/rotation vs light/meduim armor: grav rounds 3000+dmg, grav rounds 3000+dmg, Interupt! grav rounds 3000+dmg, grav rounds 3000+dmg, grav rounds 3000+dmg, grav rounds 3000+dmg, grav rounds 3000+dmg, ]Total dmg with 7 abilitis(same abilitys 1button class = 21000 DMG This is balanced YO! So...in the time he got off 7 Grav Rounds, you only got off ONE interrupt and never bothered to break LOS once? After those 7, he's out of action. Learn to play. Also...show me a screen shot of SEVEN grav rounds ALL hitting for over 3000. I'm lucky to get ONE over 3000 out of 10+. I think you're making stuff up tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DervimNorth Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Tracer missile spam just looks alot cooler than grav round spam, so they all stare at their screen drooling while watching the missiles. Much better than healing. Proves you never played one yourself. Tracer Missle is single the most annoying AND obvious animation that basically screams,"I'M RIGHT OVER HERE! STUN ME, INTERRUPT ME! BURST ME!" Also, operative, merc's nemesis complains about damage output? That's purely L2P issue. Either that, or just get a better gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbocat Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 So...in the time he got off 7 Grav Rounds, you only got off ONE interrupt and never bothered to break LOS once? After those 7, he's out of action. Learn to play. Also...show me a screen shot of SEVEN grav rounds ALL hitting for over 3000. I'm lucky to get ONE over 3000 out of 10+. I think you're making stuff up tbh. You should l2p, did you even read the post? This is NOT A 1 to 1 situation. Its in general what a class can in same amount of time. Maybe read the post before open your mouth, and ambarissing your self. The avarage dmg for grav rounds is between 2.5- 3-5 k (Avarage) They are ranged with heavy armor good survival etc. So, if your busy fighting someone else, in big grp, like all fight do. and a commando spam grav on you while ur busy fight his team mates, how the hell do iterupt and LoS come in to the picture here, and how iam gonna reach him with 2-3 team mates of him on m back. You sir have no clue, maybe you should l2p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 You should l2p, did you even read the post? This is NOT A 1 to 1 situation. Its in general what a class can in same amount of time. Maybe read the post before open your mouth, and ambarissing your self. The avarage dmg for grav rounds is between 2.5- 3-5 k (Avarage) They are ranged with heavy armor good survival etc. So, if your busy fighting someone else, in big grp, like all fight do. and a commando spam grav on you while ur busy fight his team mates, how the hell do iterupt and LoS come in to the picture here, and how iam gonna reach him with 2-3 team mates of him on m back. You sir have no clue, maybe you should l2p I did read it, you're simply wrong. I'll admit, I try to improve my play every day, so I am continually l2p. Your numbers are off. 2.5-3.5 is NOT the "norm" - lie if you like, it's simply not true. And armor means MUCH LESS than you think it does. Also, if this is a group fight, why the hell is there only ONE interrupt? You're trying to tell me that it was 3 vs you, and he got off SEVEN grav rounds before you died...sure lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spifnar Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 If you've done any sort of actual PvP'ing in this game for a large amount of time, you'd realize that armor values mean pretty much jack here. Uh...what? Each tier of armor is roughly a 10% jump in damage mitigation. A moderate amount by itself, but factor in someone else healing you and it becomes a bit more valuable. No class has a ton of AP. Several have a consistent 30-35% AP (ironically mercs and operatives), and several more have a higher percentage of elemental/internal attacks. But a majority of damage is affected by armor. The OP should be complaining more about ranged dmg vs melee. And more importantly the horrible time an operative has staying on a target after a knockback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwal Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 This post was a simpel post about what those 2 classes can do in same amount of time. Nowone talk about duels or 1v1 situation as i sated several times. Why are you comparing DPS outputs of 1.5 second chanelled skills against instant cast skills on a 1:1 basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejita Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) the diffrence between medium and heavy armor is a whopping 5% mitigation, you can move around whill a guy with only 5% more armor has to stand still, he damn well better be usefull at damaging when hes not geting hit like a punching bag of course the trooper should out damage a medium armored dps , the trooper cannot move at all whill doing his damage whill the melee can move all over the place whill not losing damage unless hes cced, but EVERYONE loses damage when cced Edited February 10, 2012 by Bejita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbocat Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 Why are you comparing DPS outputs of 1.5 second chanelled skills against instant cast skills on a 1:1 basis. the point of this thread is : Why does a melee never, i mean NEVER crit on a heavy armor, the dmg on heavy armor is even lower than the tooltip say. Assassin/opratives can never kill a heavy armor cause they never get crits! But a heavy armor commando ahve sustained dmg no mather what armor, maybe higher on light. Is that balanced? is that a game bug? if its only 5% dmg reduce, why is the dmg reduce on heavy armor like 20-30%? In another post around here, and it happen to me to; I fought a havy armor pyro, i had expertise buff, pop relic 355 power + adrenal 500 power, i got full champ with 600 expertise and still Hidden strike didnt go over 2k!!! Is that balanced???? The pyro did 10k dmg in 5 sec. Do you get it now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IREcko Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 ranged beats melee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJChief Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 the point of this thread is : Why does a melee never, i mean NEVER crit on a heavy armor, the dmg on heavy armor is even lower than the tooltip say. Assassin/opratives can never kill a heavy armor cause they never get crits! HAHAHAHA!! Seriously laughed so hard I may have soiled my pants. If operatives aren't getting crits then they are just standing still not pressing any buttons. Try hitting the 1 key... or the 2 key.. Press any key to continue. They nerfed operatives due to the excessive amount of critical strings. When they crit 10x in a row, its a problem. Operative mirror, scounrdrel has lucky shots? +5% crit passive? Try using some crit relics over power relics. I feel bad that I had to even suggest that, *** are you doing w/ power relics?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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