Dracosz Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Just my 2 cents, for all the whining about a surge nerf, if a class's damage is nerfed and it's representation or playstyle drops to the point of being a non-factor, then there was something fundamentally wrong with how the class was designed. I still run into GOOD operatives, it appears that just the bad ones have moved on. Rethink your paradigm, that's the way you'll get out of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crankyhobo Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 # dev posts/replies to inquisitor/counselor boards = 78 # dev posts/replies to warrior/knight boards = 43 # dev posts/replies to bh/trooper boards = 52 # dev posts/replies to agent/smuggler boards = 3 This is the truth right there. About the only thing that makes sniper remotely viable is surge and its about to get the nerf stick. Accuracy is a complete waste of time since all our attacks are specials. At least operative can heal, Hard-mode Flashpoints main healer no problem! Sniper does NOTHING except damage, and they're not good at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaearth Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Just my 2 cents, for all the whining about a surge nerf, if a class's damage is nerfed and it's representation or playstyle drops to the point of being a non-factor, then there was something fundamentally wrong with how the class was designed. I still run into GOOD operatives, it appears that just the bad ones have moved on. Rethink your paradigm, that's the way you'll get out of the situation. If you can look at the class design and not see there is something fundamentally wrong with it... Hint: Try making a melee-range healer work without survivability, and try making a stealth burst class not drastically overpowered with any of that survivability. Edited February 10, 2012 by Xaearth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reiina Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Rethink your paradigm, that's the way you'll get out of the situation. But I already had a paradigm shift when I started leveling my sorcerer alt and realized Op is really crap in both pve&pvp! I still run into operatives too, and I have great fun kiting them: force speed, lightning lightning lightning, yes operative, you're nearly in melee! Oh no you're dead . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sookster Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Oh yes sorc are easy mode in both pve and pvp, but damn I can't tolorate leveling mine as it gets so boring quickly, my assassin was more fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thefriar Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Just my 2 cents, for all the whining about a surge nerf, if a class's damage is nerfed and it's representation or playstyle drops to the point of being a non-factor, then there was something fundamentally wrong with how the class was designed. I still run into GOOD operatives, it appears that just the bad ones have moved on. Rethink your paradigm, that's the way you'll get out of the situation. Correction you don't run into many operatives - period. I see one per warzone and most are snipers. My paradigm shift was to reroll a sorc - I couldn't be more happy. Just what we need, more sorcs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearine Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 1.1.4 Patch Notes: Defeating a sorc/sage class will be considered a bannable offence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GavinRuneblade Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Correction you don't run into many operatives - period. I see one per warzone and most are snipers. My paradigm shift was to reroll a sorc - I couldn't be more happy. Just what we need, more sorcs. I was in a huttball this weekend with 2 snipers and 4 operatives. Was a pretty bizarre feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everesst Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Everyone is complaining about the 10% contribution per point loss but ignores the first part of the change. Does anyone actually know what that even means? Surge already does its DR almost exactly like crit (dunno about other stats but the change says "the same as other damage ratings" so im going to assume they are the same). I've tested this myself. Both stats loose value over time at a seemly set rate the only difference is that crit looses its value more slowly, and surge very quickly. the value of 246 surge rating per point is 70% compared to 51 surge rating. 246=0.1280 per point 51=0.1825 per point the value of 276 critical rating per point is 85% compared to 55 crit rating. 276=0.0370 per point 55=0.0434 per point If they were to change it to be the same as crit (and others) then the only thing I can figure they are talking about when they say "It now reaches diminishing returns the same way as other damage ratings" is that it will also lose value more slowly. If that was the case then surge at low ratings it would be worse but at higher ratings it would be better. If there is something wrong with this thought then please tell me. Edited February 10, 2012 by Everesst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bumbz Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 just because of this thread i've created OP and stopped playing my sorc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunda Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Everyone is complaining about the 10% contribution per point loss but ignores the first part of the change. Does anyone actually know what that even means? Surge already does its DR almost exactly like crit (dunno about other stats but the change says "the same as other damage ratings" so im going to assume they are the same). I've tested this myself. Both stats loose value over time at a seemly set rate the only difference is that crit looses its value more slowly, and surge very quickly. the value of 246 surge rating per point is 70% compared to 51 surge rating. 246=0.1280 per point 51=0.1825 per point the value of 276 critical rating per point is 85% compared to 55 crit rating. 276=0.0370 per point 55=0.0434 per point If they were to change it to be the same as crit (and others) then the only thing I can figure they are talking about when they say "It now reaches diminishing returns the same way as other damage ratings" is that it will also lose value more slowly. If that was the case then surge at low ratings it would be worse but at higher ratings it would be better. If there is something wrong with this thought then please tell me. Good to see a constructive post in the thread. Without knowing what the damage rating is for other stats it is difficult to say whether the change to surge is a nerf or a buff. Regardless, the patch note is too vague for anyone to say definitively and it would require testing on the PTS to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerikin_Loukbel Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) With my current stats I lose about 9% surge. The overall effect based on this thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=289336 seems to lower the max value of surge from 50% to 30%. So we lost another 9-10% to our burst damage. The "good" news is you will need less surge to hit the DR. The bad news is we still have no enchantments to chose from for dps except crit/surge and power/surge. Edited February 10, 2012 by Zerikin_Loukbel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 the surge rebalance should have came before they nerfed our hs... I've been saying it for weeks. surge is way too potent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerikin_Loukbel Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 the surge rebalance should have came before they nerfed our hs... I've been saying it for weeks. surge is way too potent Indeed. Now that surge is getting nurfed and buff stacking has been nurfed they need to look at our burst again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SableShadow Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Without knowing what the damage rating is for other stats it is difficult to say whether the change to surge is a nerf or a buff. Less is less, otherwise referred to as a nerf. With my current stats I lose about 9% surge. The overall effect based on this thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=289336 seems to lower the max value of surge from 50% to 30%. So we lost another 9-10% to our burst damage. The "good" news is you will need less surge to hit the DR. The bad news is we still have no enchantments to chose from for dps except crit/surge and power/surge. Thanks! A good summary; love those guys over there. Old formula: Surge % = 50 + 50 * ( 1 - ( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.5 ) )^( ( SurgeRating / max(Level,20) ) / 0.1 ) ) New formula: Surge % = 50 + 30 * ( 1 - ( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) )^( ( SurgeRating / max(Level,20) ) / 0.11 ) ) Simple spreadsheet showing how much it will effect you: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkYvaEVpHsu-dG1kYjFkMUpTcU5MOHdGeGV4Mk1oT3c#gid=0 Both courtesy of sithwarrior.com - as far as I know there stuff is pretty accurate. Edited February 10, 2012 by SableShadow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Eminok Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 One of the best classes has been nerfed... how sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbadisbad Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 One of the best classes has been nerfed... how sad. Operatives have not been 'one of the best' since the 1.1.1 nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bohnur Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 ^ agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dripdropdripin Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Just my 2 cents, for all the whining about a surge nerf, if a class's damage is nerfed and it's representation or playstyle drops to the point of being a non-factor, then there was something fundamentally wrong with how the class was designed. I still run into GOOD operatives, it appears that just the bad ones have moved on. Rethink your paradigm, that's the way you'll get out of the situation. im a scoundrel but i look at both forums, i agree with what youve said there are good scoundrels/operatives out there. But we shouldnt be the only class that requires alot of effort, strategy, and skill to play. They all should be hard to master in my opinion, at least when you die by someone who is actually good then you can say, well i need to get better. What pisses us off is the fact that other classes can basically smash there face on the damn keyboard and put out the same amount of damage. we have 0 utility compared to other classes, and lets face it our sheild sucks balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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