"Lazy Listing" on auction:

[Dyvid]

If I'm selling green junk items? yea I'm going to lazy list it.

[LizardSF]

Like I said: there were some listings for T4 items I bought out where the market already dropped to 38/mat... I didn't check yet, but I suspect that is damned near the vendor trash listing for that item.

 

By "resetting" the prices to a much more reasonable 400-500/per (valuation at a level 50 credits per hour) material, I have made the market a more profitable place for everyone.

 

The default listing is much much much too low.... and people who just use that and ignore the fact that the market was currently healthily selling at 300-400 cred per mat... if enough people flood the market, it in effect sets the markets much too low.... thanks to the default listing, this is happening on some markets.

 

Of course, if you keep buying things with the expectation of being able to sell them later at inflated prices, and then find no one is willing to pay your prices, you're stuck with merchandise you can't move, and your only solution is to keep buying up things other people list for less.

 

Much like the housing market, it inflated because people bought houses not to live in, but to resell, and ignored the fact that, at the end of the line, people buy houses to live in them, and if they can't afford them, they rent apartments. If there are more houses on the market than there are people who, ultimately, need a house to live in, collapse is inevitable.

 

People buy items in game to use them. If the price of buying something on the GTN exceeds the timesink of getting a similar item by questing, people simply won't buy it. You're in competition with a magical matter-producing machine that insures goods will be produced faster than you can buy them. You also compete with alts -- eventually, everyone will have enough alts that all gathering and crafting skills are covered, so you are basically forced to bid on convenience, rather than accessibility -- that is, there's a point where anyone can make any item they need via an alt, so they'll only buy it from you if the prices are low enough that it's worth more, to them, than their time.

 

Your strategy is short-term, but it does illustrate the kind of behavior that leads to bubbles and busts. It's an interesting example of why you'll never change human economic behavior, even in a world where you can't starve, you can't get sick, you don't need a home, and you're guaranteed employment at will.

[Mannic]

Forum rules prevent me from describing my thoughts on the OP.

 

Needless to say, I make my money and if that's the game he wants to play, well good luck to him.

 

Being rich means nothing in this game so I am really unsure as to what he hopes to achieve.

 

Making a million credits in TOR is like clicking a +2 datacron. You think you're doing something worthwhile until you realize you just got a .02% increase to your stats. Then you realize that all you did was spend a bunch of time doing something that really doesn't in any way impact your game experience.

[Magnijung]

lol if prices are too high they won't sell. You have no clue what you're talking about.

 

Are you saying that hyperinflation is good?

 

As someone who has been playing AH on WoW for 6 years, I know what I am talking about. If people start playing GTN to an extent that OP is talking about, this game turn into farming for credits rather than actually playing the game. Currently I am not playing GTN and I have everything and I have 500k credits. I am perfectly fine with it. I have no need atm to have more credits.

 

I believe that GTN playing should not be done in early stages of the game. Where does money in the game come from? The open world. All the credits that are/will be used to play GTN come from the world. The main quest is, are there enough credits in the economy? I do not think there.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Magnijung

[Amyiss]

Are you saying that hyperinflation is good?

 

As someone who has been playing AH on WoW for 6 years, I know what I am talking about.

 

WoW's currency devaluation suspiciously started around the same time as daily questing, but I'm sure it was the fault of the AH that was there all along, because you know what you are talking about.

[FadeXF]

Ok....

 

I'm dibs out guys... the only thing I am willing to discuss further with you all is in regards to the "default" listing price... and why it isn't reflecting an average of the last X items listed... or some type of fluctuating value. Or discussing how Bioware even gets that number.

 

 

I didn't mean to flame anyone by stating "Lazy Lister" the way I did... it was meant to be just a statement. If you hated that and took offense: I'm sorry to you.

 

The reality is that my beef isn't really with YOU but more the default price point.

[Marlaine]

Are you saying that hyperinflation is good?

 

You clearly don't know what hyperinflation is. Just wiki it and try to even apply it to arbitrage, which is what the op is talking about.

 

If items sell, they aren't at a hyperinflated price, they are at the MARKET PRICE. If the items don't sell, then they are priced too high. It's as simple as that.

[GamewizX]

have it AVERAGE the last 20-40 items sold of a certain item... make the number more MEANINGFUL?

 

Thanks all around.

 

This would be horrible. If someone wants to be lazy, that's their fault. I don't want them being hand held in making a profit. Playing the GTN should be something you have to somewhat work for and not have the system do it for you.

 

To that end, I love the lazy listers. I love buying out a 340 Archeology or Treasure Hunting Mission for the base price of around 4k and then make a profit from the mission itself totaling around 40k.

[Quraswren]

"Lazy Lister" - someone who goes by the pricing that the auction interface defaults to instead of looking at the current market pricing when listing their items on the auction house.

 

Dear Lazy Lister: first I want to thank you. You make my pocket book extremely fat. For whatever reasons you have... maybe you feel you are helping out a new person... or maybe you genuinely are just that lazy to bother to check or calculate.... whatever the reasons: you are making me rich. I will always buy you out because I know I can turn around, and within 30 minutes sell what you gave me at over 200 sometimes 500% profits. If it was an altruistic "I am trying to help a new person" you didn't. You put your credits into my bank pocket and you didn't help anyone but greedy ol' me.

 

Secondly: when I am through making my millions... my goal being around 100mil sitting on my banker after my alts hit max level... I will be leaving the market and unless someone else carefully babysits and culls the markets, you will ultimately be killing your server's economy and hurting everyone in your community. You don't help anyone.

 

Realize this: if you list your item for 1 credit per mat lower... it will sell.... it will sell just as fast as it would if you list it for your ridiculously low lazy list of 40 cred per mat. When the next highest is 200->500 cred per mat, you are seriously missing out on good credit by lazy listing.

 

 

 

Dear Bioware: why? Why did you include a default... and one that has zero rhyme or reason to what is currently happening on the market? I could understand if this number fluctuated and changed based on the average last 20 items sold... but it doesn't. it stays constantly painfully... stupidly low. Can you either a) REMOVE a default number as a price list or b) have it AVERAGE the last 20-40 items sold of a certain item... make the number more MEANINGFUL?

 

Thanks all around.

 

 

These forums have at times offered up some really bad posts but every once in a while you run across one that gets the razzie award for internet forums posts.

 

Grats to you OP on this shiny Razzie. You emulate what is wrong with most players and take this game way more seriously than anyone else on top of looking at yourself as way more important in this game than you actually are.

 

I however will continue to be your so called "lazy lister" and sit on my millions.

 

Thanks for the funny though.

[Marlaine]

Making a million credits in TOR is like clicking a +2 datacron. You think you're doing something worthwhile until you realize you just got a .02% increase to your stats. Then you realize that all you did was spend a bunch of time doing something that really doesn't in any way impact your game experience.

 

MMOs have been known to change on a moment's notice. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if at some point in the future money becomes valuable for something.

 

At that point I guess those of us who wasted our time making credits might get the last laugh.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Marlaine

[fadingdimension]

Using the horrible sorting/searching functions isn't a fun way to spend my in-game time.

 

I have enough credits to suit my needs.

 

I'd rather someone get some use out of my items instead of vending them.

 

You still make more than vendor cost.

 

Unless its something you crafted there is no overhead or production cost on your end (maybe repair bills or "fuel" cost?).

 

Don't have to deal with my mailbox filling with items that didn't sell.

Edited February 9, 2012 by fadingdimension

[mangarrage]

You put your credits into my bank pocket and you didn't help anyone but greedy ol' me. .

 

LOL

 

Actually you put your credits in his bank pocket and some other sap put theirs into yours

 

People are unreal

 

Do you realize that money means absolutely nothing in this game and probably never will

 

And so there are tons of people like me if they even try to sell anything just do the default, most of the time honestly I vendor it.

3.7 million right now on my main and yawn

[Malichus]

So I can either list things in a way that the Op calls lazy, and get back to playing the game quick, or I can spend a buttload of extra time with the clunky market interface and make a ton of money...

 

Funny, relative to how much I need I have a ton of money doing it my way. Millions is a number that has no meaning without factoring in its relation to prices. When you factor in that relation I don't even have 1 million and have a ton of money.

 

So, have fun making some arbitrary number you've decided has some meaning. While you're doing that, I'll go list some stuff at half the default price and be off playing.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Malichus

[Magnijung]

WoW's currency devaluation suspiciously started around the same time as daily questing, but I'm sure it was the fault of the AH that was there all along, because you know what you are talking about.

 

And AH playing created stack of copper ore for 50g.

 

 

You clearly don't know what hyperinflation is. Just wiki it and try to even apply it to arbitrage, which is what the op is talking about.

 

If items sell, they aren't at a hyperinflated price, they are at the MARKET PRICE. If the items don't sell, then they are priced too high. It's as simple as that.

 

I am from Ukraine. I know what hyperinflation is and how it directly affected people. For example, those that had enough money for car, only had enough money for a new jacket. OP is creating what hyperinflation creates, rich get richer and poor get poorer. Those that have little money cannot invest it. Those that have a lot of money can horde goods and dictate prices. By him increasing the price, newer player are not able to afford to use GTN. Only people who played for a long period of time can afford goods and newer players will have to follow same pricing structure as veteran players.

 

One thing that I do agree with, it is a free economy. This means that OP does not have the right to dictate the prices that should be placed on items. At the same time I still do not understand why OP made this thread since why would he reveal and wanted to alter the way he is making a ton of credits? Maybe it had something to do with him not being able to play GTN because most people are happy with "lazy posting."

[Marlaine]

I am from Ukraine. I know what hyperinflation is and how it directly affected people. For example, those that had enough money for car, only had enough money for a new jacket. OP is creating what hyperinflation creates, rich get richer and poor get poorer. Those that have little money cannot invest it. Those that have a lot of money can horde goods and dictate prices. By him increasing the price, newer player are not able to afford to use GTN. Only people who played for a long period of time can afford goods and newer players will have to follow same pricing structure as veteran players.

 

One thing that I do agree with, it is a free economy. This means that OP does not have the right to dictate the prices that should be placed on items. At the same time I still do not understand why OP made this thread since why would he reveal and wanted to alter the way he is making a ton of credits? Maybe it had something to do with him not being able to play GTN because most people are happy with "lazy posting."

 

Yeah, the OP's just trolling, we all know that. The last thing I want a "lazy lister" doing is knowing that they're lazy listing, so why inform them?

 

But you're way off base on your analysis. First, there's nothing that a beginning player "needs". They can get everything they need from questing up to 50. Second, if they want to craft, they can either go harvest the mats themselves or send their companions on missions. So this whole rich getting richer and poor getting poor crap is, well, just that....a load of crap.

 

Nobody can "dictate prices". Ever. This has been covered ad naseum in this thread. If the price is too high no one buys. If the supply is so low that no one can afford what he has, still no one buys. They'll just live without. There is not one thing in this game that anyone needs. No one is holding a gun to their head forcing them to buy it.

[wolveroach]

I am sad he left, I wanted to encourage him to keep buying everything he sees as undervalued so I can keep selling my stuff to him.

 

I get far more fun farming in game, either by sending companions on missions or picking stuff off the ground than I ever would looking at the GTM. I am just glad that I know my mats will sell if I use the default with guys like him around.

 

I have bought two items off the GTM, both because I was a couple points short in crafting to use mats I already had and it was easier to buy than to go collect. With the fat stacks of credits I already possess, I didn't even have to break my bank to buy them at over inflated prices. Net, I am probably around even or just ahead compairing what I have sold vs what I have bought. Seems to me the market is working perfect.

[KithPine]

Wait you mean I could fight that clunky market interface and make maybe 10% more then vendor price? Nope not worth it, there is a medical vendor on damn near every street corner and they get most of my crap, mats I bank and dole out to guild and friends and alts, oranges I toss up usually cheap hoping some fashonista gets it, everything else I vend. I've played Eve, if I wanted a market rich game, I know Eve is still chugging along with it's pretty spread sheets and it's wonderful market. But this game, nah, there is a vendor right over there.

 

This games market is a joke because the money sinks are few and far between and the market interface is crap.

[Magnijung]

Yeah, the OP's just trolling, we all know that. The last thing I want a "lazy lister" doing is knowing that they're lazy listing, so why inform them?

 

But you're way off base on your analysis. First, there's nothing that a beginning player "needs". They can get everything they need from questing up to 50. Second, if they want to craft, they can either go harvest the mats themselves or send their companions on missions. So this whole rich getting richer and poor getting poor crap is, well, just that....a load of crap.

 

Nobody can "dictate prices". Ever. This has been covered ad naseum in this thread. If the price is too high no one buys. If the supply is so low that no one can afford what he has, still no one buys. They'll just live without. There is not one thing in this game that anyone needs. No one is holding a gun to their head forcing them to buy it.

 

Well I am mainly talking with the assumption that eventually there will be a use for crew skills... well basically like in every game.

 

Currently GTN is pretty useless. But from economic stand point if everyone starts playing the market, economy will not develop. Atm there is no real market. So it is not an issue.

[MattieP]

Congrats. You'll have all those millions, and none of that matters in real life.

 

 

 

If I cared about ripping people off I'd spend hours upon hours of micro-managing every piece of loot I sell.

 

 

I'd rather spend that time in the zones having fun.

[Sconnoll]

the OP just proved what ive said all along about AH systems in mmos.

 

when you buy something from the AH the item should become account bound so you cant resell it and mess with the servers economy.

 

playing the AH is an extremely lazy way of making money in a game.

 

other people go out and get drops or gather or craft and try to sell the items they have then some capitalist jackhole buys it and puts it back in higher so the people that may actually need it wont be able to afford it.

 

to the capitalist jackhole theres nothing wrong.

 

but to the people that need gear upgrades and cant buy them now: the game just became that much more a likely candidate to get dust on a shelf instead of being something that gets paid for and played.

 

bioware i hope you do something about this behaviour now before it gets too bad because this sort of thing ALWAYS messes with server economies. before you know it credits will be worth nothing and everyone with a conscience wont bother trying to put anything on the AH anymore. then crafting professions wont get used and everyone will use gathering professions and just vendor everything they gather

 

What a load of crap.

 

Capitalist jackhole? Are you a Communist jackhole?

[Sconnoll]

Congrats. You'll have all those millions, and none of that matters in real life.

 

 

 

If I cared about ripping people off I'd spend hours upon hours of micro-managing every piece of loot I sell.

 

 

I'd rather spend that time in the zones having fun.

 

Please explain how he's ripping people off. He's buying and selling, who's getting ripped off again?

[Magnijung]

I think I just figured out what OP is up to.

 

Few weeks back I remember seeing threads that people were getting suspended for playing GTN.

 

I wonder...

[Mannic]

MMOs have been known to change on a moment's notice. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if at some point in the future money becomes valuable for something.

 

At that point I guess those of us who wasted our time making credits might get the last laugh.

 

And the moment credits actually mean something, it will take me about 2 days to monopolize the GTN if that's what I choose to do. And you will be the first to cry about it since the only way you know how to make money playing the GTN is by taking advantage of "lazy listers."

 

Besides, this is TOR we're talking about here. Please don't forget what game you're playing. Money will never be meaningful in this game because it would annoy the 95% of ultra-casuals who play it.

[Achromatis]

"Lazy Lister" - someone who goes by the pricing that the auction interface defaults to instead of looking at the current market pricing when listing their items on the auction house.

 

Dear Lazy Lister: first I want to thank you. You make my pocket book extremely fat. For whatever reasons you have... maybe you feel you are helping out a new person... or maybe you genuinely are just that lazy to bother to check or calculate.... whatever the reasons: you are making me rich. I will always buy you out because I know I can turn around, and within 30 minutes sell what you gave me at over 200 sometimes 500% profits. If it was an altruistic "I am trying to help a new person" you didn't. You put your credits into my bank pocket and you didn't help anyone but greedy ol' me.

 

Secondly: when I am through making my millions... my goal being around 100mil sitting on my banker after my alts hit max level... I will be leaving the market and unless someone else carefully babysits and culls the markets, you will ultimately be killing your server's economy and hurting everyone in your community. You don't help anyone.

 

Realize this: if you list your item for 1 credit per mat lower... it will sell.... it will sell just as fast as it would if you list it for your ridiculously low lazy list of 40 cred per mat. When the next highest is 200->500 cred per mat, you are seriously missing out on good credit by lazy listing.

 

 

 

Dear Bioware: why? Why did you include a default... and one that has zero rhyme or reason to what is currently happening on the market? I could understand if this number fluctuated and changed based on the average last 20 items sold... but it doesn't. it stays constantly painfully... stupidly low. Can you either a) REMOVE a default number as a price list or b) have it AVERAGE the last 20-40 items sold of a certain item... make the number more MEANINGFUL?

 

Thanks all around.

 

Im a "Lazy" lister because I dont care about you or people like you, otherwise I wouldnt be so lazy about it.

[MaliceX]

lol credits.... got a ton already and I VENDOR everything, Everything....

 

Maybe when credits mean something i'll care.. oh wait no I wont because I already have plenty.