Has Bioware already lost the PvP base?

[Lencen]

SWTOR has perhaps the worst pvp of any mmo I've played, and as far as I'm concerned PvP IS the end game of every mmo. I do not honestly expect devs to release PvE content faster than I can finish/get bored with it, so.. PVP is what keeps me playing a mmo for the long haul.

 

Regarding to balancing around classes and patches i guess you are trolling. PvP is inferior to PvE and ever have been. People like to punch programmed NPC and loot them and have fun. Thats the "big crowd" of gamers for which this game is designed. A developer always focusses on the method which brings the most income.

 

This is an interesting comment considering about the only reason people still play AoC is for PvP. The Blood & Glory server is something we haven't seen in an AAA MMO for ages. What AoC lost was the same crowd of people who troll from game to game ************ about the game's failings.

 

People obviously enjoy SWTOR's PvP, I've never had any trouble finding matches (on my PvE server) and Ilum is busy even if utter garbage. The "PvP player base" people have been posting about throughout this thread might best be defined as "loud mouths who agree with me"

 

Just love this comment. This is for real. As the first MMO have been released customers were not like nowadays. Nowadays forums are crowded with all those raging idiots demanding the "fullfing perfect game because they pay 11€ per month". Congratulations.

 

sorry for my bad english

[Nezis]

Just love this comment. This is for real. As the first MMO have been released customers were not like nowadays. Nowadays forums are crowded with all those raging idiots demanding the "fullfing perfect game because they pay 11€ per month". Congratulations.

 

sorry for my bad english

 

As opposed to being a raging idiot who is raging about the raging idiots?

Edited February 17, 2012 by Nezis

[longgrassgrows]

As opposed to being a raging idiot who is raging about the raging idiots?

 

raging idiots suck...THEY *********** SUCK

[drudged]

I understand and agree with a lot of the arguments in this thread..but what I see a lot if is "what do I do now?"

 

You only get 2 BM bags a day, so what? does nobody pvp for fun anymore? Everyone complains about a gear grind, but when they are done with the grind they whine. If you can't pvp for the sake of PvP then I am not exactly sure what will save you. People play FPS games on the same map over and over again, look at the CoD franchise ffs. With the upcoming rated WZs and a new WZ to play, if that can't keep your attention for at least a while longer then maybe you need to look at why you are playing the game in the first place.

[golfwang]

I understand and agree with a lot of the arguments in this thread..but what I see a lot if is "what do I do now?"

 

You only get 2 BM bags a day, so what? does nobody pvp for fun anymore? Everyone complains about a gear grind, but when they are done with the grind they whine. If you can't pvp for the sake of PvP then I am not exactly sure what will save you. People play FPS games on the same map over and over again, look at the CoD franchise ffs. With the upcoming rated WZs and a new WZ to play, if that can't keep your attention for at least a while longer then maybe you need to look at why you are playing the game in the first place.

 

If you pvp for the sake of pvp this game has little to offer you right now. Poorly designed maps of which there are only three, no world pvp, clunky combat, poor progression.

 

The class balance is pretty nice. Ilum can be fun if you're on the right server but the game engine is clearly unable to handle many players.

 

People play CoD on the same maps for a couple of reasons, but I think the biggest is that the maps are awesome and the gameplay is smooth/addicting.

 

I've a big problem with rated Warzones: These maps are poorly designed for competitive play. They aren't un-salvageable but I'm surprised nothing has been to to re balance design flaws which are going to imbalance rated WZs and draw justified ire from the community. And this doesn't really give me much faith that the new WZ is going to be awesome either.

 

I think blaming the player base is a poor cop-out. There is a lot wrong here, especially for a game that touted the pedigree of it's pvp team.

Edited February 17, 2012 by golfwang

[Xruptor]

How long did it take you to write that shyte that no one will read?

 

I read it. I'm sorry if your not intelligent enough to be able to read properly. There is a vast majority of individuals that grew up with the ability to read. God forbid you have to read something that's longer then 5 sentences.

 

In any case, I will have to completely agree with the OP. I think the post was very well thought out. The post points out constructive criticism on the current state of PVP and does it very well. I myself am suffering from the empty world paradox that is affecting many of the servers. This is especially true, because I play on a PVP server. You would think that on a PVP server, that I would be able to you know... PVP. The fact is I rarely if at all ever come in contact with the opposing faction. I have to blame the poor design of the planets. They are quite literally split in two. Where one faction occupies the one half and the other faction the other half. There is of course a few planets were you do meet in the middle or towards the end but those planets are few and far between.

 

It's a shame really. I truly do love the games atmosphere but the game-play is just hurting right now. I have hope though that Bioware will address these issues before more people get discouraged and leave.

[Sarnum]

well the ****** merry-go-around in ilum did not make open world pvp popular for sure.

[Calei]

I think Bioware made it perfectly clear that innovation and creativity aren't even considered in thier development process. I wouldn't expect anything that hasn't been done before coming from them.

[Kentontudor]

I think Bioware made it perfectly clear that innovation and creativity aren't even considered in thier development process. I wouldn't expect anything that hasn't been done before coming from them.

 

Sadly, I agree.

[Arethel]

I'm on the verge of throwing in the towel honestly. I decided to play a good guy on Dark Reaper.. and the ridiculous imbalance on Illum as well as the retarded number of exploited BM+ bad guys running around WZ's makes even completing my daily pvp quests an almost insurmountable obstacle. I played for about 5 hours last night and got 2 WZ wins and about 40 kills in Illum. That is not fun for me and I simply do not have the time, energy, or even the desire to level up a Sith and go with the 'if you can't beat em, join em' mentality.

 

I'm sure some Imp players will read this as me QQ'ing.. but I'm not. It's the cold hard facts on Dark Reaper. I doubt Illum is fun for them either - camping our base and trying to lure us out for a kill .. the **** is just straight up broken. Oh, and don't even get me started on class balancing.

[sinnes]

my subscription ends tomorrow. havnt seen a patch note on pvp that i liked.

[Synastria]

Ilum is more fail than wintergrasp and tol barad...

 

And yes most of the harcore pvpers on my server have quit. A small few have gone to pve, but since the content is cleared fairly easily(even nightmare), its only a matter of time before they leave altogether.

[Zlashie]

As a high rated Gladiator player from WoW, I must say that my partner who I've rolled with on this game has already semi-quit.

 

I'm still here only because of RL mates and the fact that my sub is active until 22.04.

 

 

edit

The guy above me who mentioned Burning Crusade.. that was the best game ( or well, xpack ) I have ever played, outside of old DOS/Win95 platformers. I honestly don't think anything can or will ever be compareable to the progression and the fun that TBC offered. Ranging from Kara, to Gruul; from SSC to MH; from BT to Sunwell, from S1 to S4, I don't remember a single time I was actually bored during TBC.

 

This part I agree with. Bioware could learn something from TBC.

[KKraken]

We cant really know if the pvp base alredy left.

 

From my experience a lot have quited.

 

I hope they can fix this fast I dont think they can be happy with losing the pvp comunity.

 

The issues are clear there have been hundreds of posts on the same 20ish issues that need fixing fast. I hope they are working their arse out to do so.

 

Anyone that does not like alting finds dead end at 50 after 2 weeks.

 

That is fking frustrating for me after having the best leveling up experience in an mmo I ever lived.

 

Its a fact.

 

A sad one but a fact.

[mordredz]

This part I agree with. Bioware could learn something from TBC.

 

Quit after not even 2 months, peace, wont miss ya!

[mordredz]

my subscription ends tomorrow. havnt seen a patch note on pvp that i liked.

 

Later! Dont need players that complain 24/7 and don't understand the concept of 2 months old...

[Almghty_gir]

as a PVPer, i'm now only playing this game until GW2 comes out.

 

as soon as they introduced expertise, and then bracketed level 50's instead of just standardising stats in warzones and getting rid of expertise, they lost me.

 

even ranked warzones mean nothing to me when there's still a gear curve, and your ranked position has more to do with what gear you're wearing than how good you are.

[KrustyDog]

Later! Dont need players that complain 24/7 and don't understand the concept of 2 months old...

 

They had what, 5-6 YEARS of development. Would you be happy if you bought a 2 month old car and it didnt run right? All those years and this is all they came up with? Add all the beta time into the 2 month equation as well. Been a helluva lot longer than 2 monthes. I think they are losing the pvp base because face it-its just not a pvp game. I'm sure they'd love to have the pvp base but they have not shown nor earned it. Thats fine. Its a great pve game and tons of people will play and love this game for years to come, just not pvp'ers. Only thing I am angry about is a pve game billed as pvp and another 75 (60 preorder+15 1st month sub) down the drain. Same thing happened with rift. They said pvp would be a big part of the game but once it went live it was just another raiding pve game.

[MethiasPrime]

The guy above me who mentioned Burning Crusade.. that was the best game ( or well, xpack ) I have ever played, outside of old DOS/Win95 platformers. I honestly don't think anything can or will ever be compareable to the progression and the fun that TBC offered. Ranging from Kara, to Gruul; from SSC to MH; from BT to Sunwell, from S1 to S4, I don't remember a single time I was actually bored during TBC.

 

You must have been a warrior, rogue, druid, or warlock if you enjoyed BC. If you were any other class BC was terrible. I will give you that Kara was fun but after that the raids seemed very flat until hitting BT and Sunwell. All that space in between was horrible. Wrath was where it was at in WoW. PVP balance finally started to exist and the raids were interesting.

 

Now as for SWTOR PVP it is pretty horrible right now. Only having 3 warzones and no other form of PVP is causing most of the pvp player base to burn out quickly. Ilum was a good idea in theory but it hasn't played out yet. The massive gear inbalance between Battlemaster and a fresh 50 discourages any new players from even trying in WZ's.

 

Bioware needs to make some changes soon or the subs will continue slipping away.

[Celebrus]

I'd say not only have they basically lost it, they've also given up on getting it back, they managed to break Ilum pretty quickly, without fixing their valor system by rolling back that traded valor. They've left pretty impactful bugs/glaring issues with abilities that are scaling impoperly in the game while making sweeping changes like Surge, relic nerfs, and so on, in some horrible attempt at achieving class balance.

 

I honestly don't know what their goal is with the changes they've been making and now comes Warzone Deathmatch mode in the next patch, you might as well remove all of the current warzones and replace them with a circular room where everyone fights to the death, because thats whats going to happen anyway.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Celebrus

[LatinLegacy]

Well, I am speaking on the behalf of the Republic side for the Shadowlands server. We were use to getting rolled over in PvP by quite a few good players on the Imperial side. After the recent patch that nerfed Surge, almost all of those good Imperial players have just disappeared.... I have not seen any of them on since Monday night. Republic has been rolling in level 50 PvP ever since the patch but a lot of good players have stopped playing.

 

As for myself, it really broke my class a great deal in PvP. As a gunnery commando, I heavily relied on Surge so my Grav Round, High Impact Bolt, Demolition Round & Charged Bolts all hit hard as it possibly could. With the adjustment made to Surge, around 1/4th of my damage when I crit has been wiped out. So I'm hitting squishies for about 2900 to 3100 instead of 3800 to 4000. The surge adjustment has also spiked the survivability of Sorcs & Sages & we all know how many PvP players on both factions feel about those classes already.

 

-LatinLegacy

[Jagerinho]

Guess we just like reminding you die hards that your game is dead/dying?

 

And i think ppl have a right to tell BW that they feel cheated and why..

 

the game delivered on nothing but Role play... not good enough

 

BTW MiaRB i noticed your join date of 09 O.o i really feel for you, and i understand you defending swtor till its dying days.. but unfortunately.. the unsubbers are the majority ..

 

they are not the majority, stop being ignorant.

[TheMieng]

Let me start out by saying This is not WOW nor is it any other mmo on the market.

Even tho there are to many IMO Copy cat features specially pvp it still is not a WOW or any other mmo.

 

This is SWTOR aka Star Wars Not World of WarCraft. So if you'll can stop comparing this game or any other mmo To other mmo's we can get past this point and help them see what the players are really looking for.

 

If you are coming from another mmo and trying to turn this into the mmo you left i would strongly suggest you go back to your mmo you came from. Now with all that out of the way.

 

Pve story line is really well done I have caught a screw up here and there example on Corellia one of the quest the guy mentions the redlight sector then goes on to telling you he will put corescant on full high alert. Excusse me Corescant? I'm on Corellia shouldn't he have said he would put Corellia on high alert?????.

 

PVE has been done very well story line and game play. How ever there could have been alot more quest. As far as experience it goes way to fast which is a kill for any mmo.

 

PVP is a hole other ball game lot of issues here that need to be taken care of. For one lvl 10-49 pvp match???? A buff that sets everyone to lvl 49??? I think something is way off. Going to go out on a limb here and guess what i think is off and wrong.

 

The buff is given to everyone. I noticed certain stats raised so if everyone gets them stats raised that much what about those that had higher stats than that? I think it is stacking the buff on top of there stats giving them a even bigger boost. I've walked in on a lvl 22 vanguard start firing away after a few matches i was noticing when i alone was fireing on a person i would do equal amounts of damage they was doing so long as that player was withen 10 lvls of me. Any player above 10 levels i found they did way more damage to me and i did way less damage. Some players could stand there and basically regen naturally what i was taking out of them while i was trying to kill them.

 

So all those people saying the system makes everyone lvl 49.. Are foolish cause it don't. For a system like that to balance every thing fair every player coming in to a pvp zone would have to have the same stats and gear and the only thing setting them apart was there abilities.

 

Next issue Stuns. Way to many stuns. Ok it seems ok in the battle fields but in Hutball it is retarded. You get the ball your stunned and can't even pass the ball cause every one on the other team are slamming you with stuns and damage. If we going to have stuns they need min a 3 min cool down to prevent the screwed up stun epidimic. With a 3 min cool down people will savor there stuns better and not be able to stun like they do now.

 

Rumor or not I've heard from other players that the republic side can't get more than 8 players in a match but the Empire side can get 8 to 12 against the 8 republic. this has got to be fixed very soon if this is reality and not a rumor. In some games I've watched players ask the other side how many people they had and I've heard 12 when we had only 8. Was this a fair match no it was not. Would count for why they heald all 3 guns from beggening to end.

 

Elemental attack? why isn't there any elemental defence stuff in game? You gave players elemntal attacks with no defence. So regardless pvp or pve this is not cool. It's unfinished.

Should not have happen.

 

PVP Hacking ....Speed, Warping, Invincability..;. ETC... Need to be takken seriously.

Ive seen sides blow doors and the shields are still up. I've witnessed a Gun takken over with no one there. Invis stealth that don't break when clicking objects???? this isn't a ability any class has. I'm not new to the hacking sence. I use to run hacks when i 3 box EQ. So noticing these hacks are not uncommon for someone like me. A hacker can see a hack a mile away. SWTOR i play 100% fair and legal with no hacks. But I can't say this for others. And when you call them on it they use sorry excusses, like have you heard of this ability or that. They think a ex hacker can't tell the diffrence of a hack and game mechanics. LOL how funny that is.

 

Hacks I've personally used in other mmo's over past 13 years? Speed Hacks, Loot hacks, Perm Stealth hacks, Damage speed hacks, Flight Hacks, Walking threw Wall Hacks, Map Hacks, Warp Hacks, Stat Hacks, And the list goes on. Can I identify a hack with out a doubt. I know a hack like i know the back of my hand. This is a serious issue you guys are having in pvp. Some cover it up very well others don't we will call them the noobs of hacking. Pro hackers are harder to spot cause they have same knowlege as i do and can hide it very well in front of the necked eye like a magician. Hacks are based on timing when around other players.

 

The game is great and has it's flaws. PVP is just a huge flaw and IMO a copy of the World of Warcraft PVP system. Expertise is a joke in pvp.

 

What is PVP Player Verse Player. What defines a player? There ability to use there given abilites better than another player. What are abilities? we will call them spells many people will understand this word. What are not Abilities? Gear and stats. Soi if x player has lvl 49 gear and fighta a player with lvl 10 gear on who will come out the victor? Well the guy with lvl 50 gear can stand there go grab a cup of joe and watch a show and come back and hit you a few times and kill you. If that said player was lvl 50 with your gear on the fight would be a even match.

 

Next point why are lvl 10's in a match with lvl 49's? Regardless that buff the system is calculating things wrong and the system is not right.

 

Solution to the problem you need to have pvp matchs 10-19, 20-29, 30-39, 40-49, 50. Dont rant with that will cause low population and matchs. Thats why they do cross server pvp zones. This would bolster every lvl matches to be over flowing with players. So there would be plenty of players and matches and on them low population days on your server would go un noticed because the server pvp matchs would be combined.

 

If your going to copy WOW's pvp system you shouldn't of left out cross server pvp battle zones.

 

Better late than never this should have went above under the pve . Cut sences. Some cut sences that you have to read cause you don't speak alien languages are moving faster than you can read them. some times I miss what was said because the chat changed faster than i had a chance to read it. Ok before you'll say it hit escape and re do it. Why should i have to escape the sence and watch it over again when they can simply turn down the timer and allow it to stay a bit longer. Escaping a sence is just dum and before i start escaping cut sence's just so i can read the last 2 to 5 words i will just ignore the whole story line and just spacebar threw it all.

 

Any comments? Please keep it clean no bashing or ranting or slandering of this post just what you think should be changed to balance things. PVP seems to be the huge issue I've seen.

[golfwang]

I'd say not only have they basically lost it, they've also given up on getting it back, they managed to break Ilum pretty quickly, without fixing their valor system by rolling back that traded valor. They've left pretty impactful bugs/glaring issues with abilities that are scaling impoperly in the game while making sweeping changes like Surge, relic nerfs, and so on, in some horrible attempt at achieving class balance.

 

I honestly don't know what their goal is with the changes they've been making and now comes Warzone Deathmatch mode in the next patch, you might as well remove all of the current warzones and replace them with a circular room where everyone fights to the death, because thats whats going to happen anyway.

 

That's my biggest concern. If they've given up, there's nothing to do but move on and admit ToR pvp is a wash.

 

Ilum has showed flashes of fun/brillance on my server but there's so many things holding it back from being awesome and too few have addressed as we approach month three. Ilum deserves all the hate it's getting and then some.

 

I can't see a real goal or focus in most of their changes. Probably because everything pvp-related in this game needs serious attention, I'd bet they're overwhelmed.

 

If this new warzone sucks, it'll be the nail in ToR's pvp coffin imo.

Edited February 17, 2012 by golfwang

[Arctic-wolf]

Swtor is all about pve, storyline, gear, and pretty graphic. I dont care about storyline and graphic. I pressing "Space" in every of movies. Sigh. I wanted PvP. I did hit 50lv few days ago and I got exciting. I went to Illum. I lagged out 5times due to many stuns and AOE attacks droppin on us. Half of us lagged out. It was so bad. I started wondering is that world of pvp? And do I want make second toon? No way!!! If I want go pvp in somewhere like Tattoine or Hoth Will I find PvP there? Nope it not gonna happened because Planets and Cities are too large with full of champion npcs which it makes it difficult to find pvp there.

I have a Bounty Hunter and Trooper. too bad I cannot hunt anyone. Idk why it named Bounty Hunter for. Im sicked and tired of space stations. Too much legs work..

 

 

My sub will ran out by nextweek or so...This game made me miss SWG.skills>gear but here its Gear>skills. Not for me.