No Movement Enchantments in Huttball

[Bcpro]

Before I throw my two cents in, I'd like to point out that rated/ranked warzones are incoming this month (according to George), and so, I make my case based upon having a fun, fair, and balanced Warzone experience for ALL classes.

 

That said, currently sorcerors and assassins are all you need to win a warzone match. A-tank grabs the ball, tosses to B-tank across the acid, who is then pulled by A-sorc to the top, uses force speed to cross OVER the second fire pit with his 3 second immunity to stun, and is then pulled by B-sorc to the goal line. It's a tactic that is impossible to stop. There are several other combinations that are impossible to stop as well, most of them involving sorcs, sins, and juggs.

 

Considering what I have said, I feel that huttball is strongly imbalanced towards creating sorc/sin or sorc/jugg premades. If they allow full 8 man premades (they better for ranked warzone, noone wants PUGS ruining their rating) for ranked warzones, you're going to see huttball premades who run 3 sorcs, 3 tanks, and maybe two dps...whom will be ranged.

 

It is my personal opinion that all leaps, pulls, and speed buffs should result in an immediate reset of the ball, if the ball handler is the target of one.

 

This means abilities such as

 

Force Charge

Intercede

Extrication

Predation

Force Speed

Obliterate

etc etc etc

 

All movement effects should result in the ball being dropped. Scoring should be limited to running the ball, passing the ball, and having your team actually protect the ball carrier.

 

I agree to the OP. Props to the people who figured out how to score fast and effectively using these mechanics, but removing movement effects for the ball carrier will make the scenario more fun and balanced for more people for more class combinations imho and therefor I feel it will be removed. Great warzone btw

[Typheran]

Arsenal mercs have the AoE knockback of doom, a melee-range knockback, a channeled snare with LOS, an instacast stun, a 2s cast mezz, a self-shield and the ability to self-heal and/or heal allies if allowed / forced to stop for 1.5s - 2s.

 

That's quite a bit of utility to bring to the game, on top of being a particularly nasty spike DPS class.

 

 

Mercs make for particularly frustrating defenders - we're one of the classes that can generally contain the lolforceleap of doom and send that player flying back into the pit. Having two knockbacks makes life a misery for the carrier or their escorts if you drop into the middle of them or plant yourself beyond an obstacle, plus being able to DPS them as they approach.

 

They're also fairly competent ball carrier escorts, mostly due to knockbacks but also from being able to stop and heal the carrier when needed. Shield and heavy armour also makes you a reasonable emergency ball carrier as you get near the endzone, if the main carrier gets into difficulty.

 

 

However, you don't want too many mercs on the team. And we do lack the sheer volume of 'brilliant' Hutball utility options available to sorcs who spec themselves accordingly. So yes, sorcs are FOTM for a reason, but don't dismiss the mercs just because we don't have leap and pull.

 

Everything you mentioned a sorc has just as good if not better. Plus force run, bubble, pull.. etc etc.

[Gryphandor]

You should not be able to use ANY movement enchantments while carrying the ball in Huttball. This includes: Intercede, Force Charge, Force Speed, Force Pull. Any of these kind of abilities should return the ball to the neutral position.

 

However, enemies should still be able to pull the ball carrier into hazard, pit etc.

 

Allowing all these movement enchantments makes throwing the ball moot. Also having 8 sorcs will not win you the game anymore.

 

 

I do kind of like this idea. Just don't think it is fair to allow the enemy to pull a player if a ally can't. So can't have your cake and eat it to. Needs to be a all or nothing.

 

So ball carrier is limited to all normal movement or drops the ball period. Use these other skills to rip down the wall of teammates who are trying to guard the ball carrier.

 

As it is with no hacks or doing anything crazy. You can score in Hutball in about 10 second just from passing across the field. I've done it and have seen it done even in pugs. Just need players who can pass or hide until the right moment.

 

Now we still need to keep in mind that Huttball seems to be a source of many obvious hacks or atleast the Warzone they are used most noticably. Makes it very hard to guage if such a thing is needed. So after all the cheaters are stopped it might be a bit easier to balance.

 

Remember thier is a mega jump hack, a redo hack, a speed hack, and a latency hack that can give you the appearance of god mode. All used so often by atleast one person in almost every match that you honestly can't tell if a change like this would help.

 

Just my 2 cents. Take from it what you will.

[andysdead]

quit your whining and learn to play.

 

signed,

a double-predation marauder

[Gryphandor]

quit your whining and learn to play.

 

signed,

a double-predation marauder

 

 

There is a big difference between L2P and people cheating. So it really isn't whining now is it. Move on a troll another thread.

[andysdead]

There is a big difference between L2P and people cheating. So it really isn't whining now is it. Move on a troll another thread.

 

Perhaps you should take a minute to define the term "cheat."

[DarthMikesta]

IMO the only people against this OP are the force users who constantly score because of the speed buff.

 

Everyone saying "Oh but its only 3 seconds!", "Oh but you can still CC them" completely forget that you can force run THROUGH THE HAZARDS, or AROUND CORNERS.

 

But, I think just force run, and being pulled should return the ball. Force charging with the ball is perfectly fine.

 

This change would make Huttball alot more fun and tactical. Right now its basically just give the sorc/sage/whatever force user the ball and let them force run it in.

[Piriste]

quit your whining and learn to play.

 

Thank you for your intellectual response, you really did add so much to this topic.

[andysdead]

IMO the only people against this OP are the force users who constantly score because of the speed buff.

 

Everyone saying "Oh but its only 3 seconds!", "Oh but you can still CC them" completely forget that you can force run THROUGH THE HAZARDS, or AROUND CORNERS.

 

But, I think just force run, and being pulled should return the ball. Force charging with the ball is perfectly fine.

 

This change would make Huttball alot more fun and tactical. Right now its basically just give the sorc/sage/whatever force user the ball and let them force run it in.

 

OK I'm going to be honest and say that I have rarely seen a sage/sorc/shadow/assassin use Force Speed effectively while carrying the ball.

 

The most effective ball-running strategies I've seen so far are as follows:

 

a) give ball to marauder/sentinel with 30 stacks of secondary resource up and the 5 minute CD to add another 30 stacks off cooldown.

Strategy above easily countered with effective use of roots/CC.

 

b) give ball to a tank-spec'd jugg/gaurd or PT/vangaurd, have the tank run the ball. As these tanks are almost impossible to kill when they have heals, they don't really need to throw the ball at all.

 

c) make good use of Force Pull.

Above strategy can be used in combination with any other strategy and practically guarantees a goal.

[ThaLunatik]

Let's also get a petition going to make the NFL stop classifying players as such things as "quarterback" and "running back." I mean, the fact that a quarterback gets sacked like it's nothing while some fast runner can mash through the opposing team just makes no sense. Everyone should be the same and be able to pass repeatedly while not being able to run. I think that'd make football a lot better!

 

Seriously though... Juggernauts and Powertech tanks have a leap that makes them better ball carriers. PTs, Mercs, and Assassin tanks can grip people into fire and hopefully score a kill for the ball. Mercs, Assassins, and Sorcerers can knockback into flames or acid and hopefully score a kill for the ball. It's true that some classes can run the ball more easily than others, but the teamwork element comes in when you got people getting into proper positioning to receive a pass or knowing when to throw the ball rather than take it to the grave.

 

These abilities are used to give the classes their usefulness in Huttball. I've been playing my PT tank and I love being able to grapple people into flames and leap to poorly-positioned enemies on my way to a ball capture. But at the same time when the match is over with I have a fraction of the damage that anyone else does even if I were doing only dps the entire round. An Operative might feel like they can't help much in Huttball, but do you really think that 300k damage they did by end of round amounted to no help at all? That's way less opponents ganking ball carriers and many less opponents who are able to safely run a ball to the endzone. That Merc who can't easily get the ball to the endzone themselves? They could very well be healing for 300k while doing knockbacks and grapples, all of which are directly assisting the team in winning.

 

At the same time I have to cringe any time I see a sniper get the ball and then slowly walk it toward the endzone while there's assassins, marauders, and other much less squishy classes nearby trying to help them (you know, by making themselves available to catch the ball). If they know their class they know they shouldn't be holding the ball for any period of time longer than enough time to pass to a more appropriate teammate.

 

All of these things require teamwork of course. The sniper holding the ball needs people to pass to. The tank moving toward the finish line needs heals or peels to not be focused to death. And a dashing assassin or sorcerer should be rooted to slow their roll.

[Kraygh]

Wait so basically, Force Pull, Force Leap and Intercede, shouldn't be used? So basically what you're saying, is melee classes shouldn't be allowed to be competitive in Huttball?

 

*Edit* I missed the "Carrying the ball" part of the original post, my bad.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Kraygh

[kckkryptonite]

Huttball carrier shouldn't be allowed to use any abilities!

[lectotrans]

huttball was designed with these abilities in mind. deal with it already.

[Hoff]

huttball was designed with these abilities in mind. deal with it already.

 

Operatives clearly weren't part of this design.

[ThaLunatik]

Operatives clearly weren't part of this design.

 

While they do respectable burst and can push out decent heals, I do feel they are the one class that needs a little something extra to help them in Huttball utility. They have no knockback, no grapple, no speed boost (except a minor one on the defensive CD if spec'd), no leap-to. Not sure what they could use, but just a little something might be nice for 'em.

 

In Voidstar and Civil War, however, they really don't lack at all.

Edited February 11, 2012 by ThaLunatik

[Hoff]

While they do respectable burst and can push out decent heals, I do feel they are the one class that needs a little something extra to help them in Huttball utility. They have no knockback, no grapple, no speed boost (except a minor one on the defensive CD if spec'd), no leap-to. Not sure what they could use, but just a little something might be nice for 'em.

 

In Voidstar and Civil War, however, they really don't lack at all.

 

 

Melee without gap closer = retarded design. Assassins at least have a speed boost that can break snares/roots and 30m CC. Operatives have no gap closers and no CC that is >10m range.

 

I think giving them a sprint, a shadowstep, or increasing debilitate/sever tendon to 30m would do the trick.

 

As far as huttball goes, they need a buff in damage or a charge. Otherwise there is no reason to play them over a jugg/ptech/sin.

 

When ranked BGs come out I can't put myself on a team with good conscience because I know I'm hurting the team as an operative unless the whole team skips every huttball.

[ThaLunatik]

Melee without gap closer = retarded design. Assassins at least have a speed boost that can break snares/roots and 30m CC. Operatives have no gap closers and no CC that is >10m range.

 

I think giving them a sprint, a shadowstep, or increasing debilitate/sever tendon to 30m would do the trick.

 

As far as huttball goes, they need a buff in damage or a charge. Otherwise there is no reason to play them over a jugg/ptech/sin.

 

When ranked BGs come out I can't put myself on a team with good conscience because I know I'm hurting the team as an operative unless the whole team skips every huttball.

 

Some sort of shadowstep would be pretty cool. Could give them the gap closer while utilizing their inherent stealth ability.

[hkelias]

Operatives clearly weren't part of this design.

 

Half the Ops in huttball just wander around oblivious to the ball carrier anyway.

 

All in all I disagree with nerfing movement enhancements.

[Lectro]

I disagree with the OP..This is a game ( Huttball ) based on tactics and skill.

 

You're basicly saying " Let me use my pulls, jump, and speed abilities to kill you."

 

"But you cant use yours if it gives you a tactic that beats me."

 

The game don't need fixes like this, it needs less people like you in it.

 

If you don't like them Don't PVP please.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Lectro

[RealAeiouy]

Honestly the people defending these abilities sound like the same fools in Rift who thought it was perfectly ok for Riftstalker/Bard Combo to exist in Whitefall... Ya know... Because having one class that completely clear the entire Zone in 30 seconds with the flag was completely balanced.

 

Any Objective Based map like this always breeds moronic speed type classes that think it's perfectly ok that the match is completely reliant on their class.

 

Riftstalker/Bard combo was perfectly ok for example.. because you could purge his speed... Even though he could just get it right back by porting again....

 

Whitefalls in Rift ended up being exactly like this game to, If you had one on your team, You won. If ya the other team did, You lost.

 

 

It is not like that at all.

[RealAeiouy]

I believe no one said it was one person doing this, But teams of people doing it with the specific Force Classes.

 

Here is all it takes to win Huttball.

 

Sorc/Sage Runs past first fire pit, Assassin Waits for you on Either Side Ledge or Enemy Teams Ledge overlooking the ball.

 

If your teammate grabs the ball and throws it to the assassin, That assassin will score, and there isn't squat you can do about it.. BecauseU He's going to get pulled by the Sorc, and He's going to Immune and Forcespeed over that last pit...

 

There is other strategies like this, But they all contain Force users, Non Force Users be damned.

 

a Juggy is 10x the ball carrier a BH is.

 

an Assassin is 10x the Ball Carrier a BH is.

 

Sorc, the same...

 

Hell, even a Marauder is good for the bloody group speed buff they get and the stupid amount of Damage they can take.

 

 

L2pd!!!

[RealAeiouy]

1. It was a comparison of the ineptitude that most of the defenders display, You are an example of this.

2. You clearly haven't played anything but an Assassin. Try playing a Powertech BH in Huttball once and see how well it works only having 1 Charge on a 15 second cooldown, No immunity or Speed.

3. Juggies/Sorcs dominate Huttball, Powertech is the worst tank for it.

 

Now, Lets continue onto the rest of your post.. You seem to think because you spec tank, you should be the absolute best ball carrier because you can go immune and speed over obstacles. You also seem to think, That if you're not doing this, You're useless in Huttball, Which tells me you dont' properly know how to play your class in the first place. Not only can you guard the ball carrier, You would still make an excellent ball carrier even if speed/immunity didn't work, Because you have an AOE knockback. Powertechs/Juggies would also be similar to you in that they wouldn't have their movement abilities either.

 

Fact is, You're a bad tank, because you've not found the strength of your class, Instead you're relying on blatant overpowered mechanics in huttball to be successful.

 

When they finally do gut movement abilities in huttball, You're going to be screwed as you have zero clue how Huttball is meant to be played.

 

If you learn to play defense in huttball you won't be so bad

[RealAeiouy]

Whether or not a Force user ball carrier is 'guaranteed' to score is irrelevant to the argument. Yes, they can be stopped by a concerted team effort including a pulling class. The issue is they are BETTER than all the other classes at carrying the Huttball, hence the team with more of them will win when skill is equal. That is the definition of imbalance. They can do things the other classes can't with the ball which is why those abilities need to be disabled when carrying. This would make Huttball more reliant on passing which is, you guessed it, more team oriented. Isn't that what the people defending this cheese keep spouting off about anyway? Win-win.

 

No. The game is team orientated no. Making it so the only viable play is two tanks and a healer does not make it better.

 

Learn to play defense. Not one of you complaining about sorcs being overpowered play one and score constantly. It is silly. Please roll one and provide the unedited video of you dominating huttball. Do it now!!!!

[RealAeiouy]

A. Everything you can do on a PT Tank, The other tanks can do better.

B. You're not walking across an entire platform against anyone who's a force user, CAuse you're going to get knocked off.

C. "I've scored by using Jet charge on enemies that just spawned" Welcome to what a Juggy can do, but 10x better, You're also relying on the enemy being an idiot.

D. "I've used Grapple to annoy players while scoring" Welcome to the Tank Assassin, who can do the same... While having Immunity and Force Speed...

 

In Closing You picking Team B, proves you're an idiot..

 

Hell, If the statement "We are not ball carriers" doesn't show how moronic being Team B is, then I don't know what is.

 

Cause if you're not the ball carrier on the Powertech, Who do you think is on Team B.

 

You think operative/sniper/merc is going to be running the ball?

 

 

 

If you think it is impossible to keep from getting knocked off a ledge you have a lot to learn. Your entire position is based on ignorance and inexperience.

 

There is no knock back that magically knocks anyone on a walkway off. When you put out there no understanding of how abilities work it kills your credibility when trying to make a case.

[Randomness]

The problem is Intercede, imo, because it completely negates the use of CC. You stun the ball carrier so your team can pile on him, but then he's whisked away, still carrying the ball, to somewhere out of reach. He now has full resolve and is ahead of you. That's basically an instant score, and the only way to stop it is to NEVER LET A SAGE/SORC GET AHEAD OF THE BALL CARRIER.

 

The problem is that there is no counterplay to this. Especially now that pull defense is no longer possible, intercede lets a single person negate your ability to focus fire the ball carrier. Consider that the same person can add a shield and heal the carrier, and you end up with a situation where they offer so much more to the team than anyone else (okay, a good tank is still useful because sorc/sages are squishy) it's ridiculous.

 

Intercede should cause them to drop the ball, the same as stealthing does.