Maybe so, but the longer the fight goes on, the longer range has to dominate due to kiting. Operatives have no gap closer and therefore if they can't kill you ASAP, they lose. Once you are > 10m, the operative loses. Without the initial burst, operative's pitiful ranged damage isn't enough to finish people off. Also, I'm pretty sure sorc shields can't crit and therefore received a significant buff this patch.

A wild developer has appeared. Master Ball go........ Based on my non-arbitrary level 50 powertech and lvl 50 operative, why does my powertech do way more damage AND way more burst while also having MORE survivability and actually having utility? Another note: If melee classes and ranged classes are meant to do the same DPS in raids and PvP, then all knockbacks need to be removed (especially from operations). If knockbacks are going to remain, then melee need to do more DPS than ranged and/or have way more utility than ranged.

You are retarded, 2800 is with amazing gear before crit and before armor reduction. Your numbers basically prove how bad Cull is. Screenshot 1 - Triple Cull CRIT for 2810 Screenshot 2 - Double Cull Crit for 2664 (sorry but the corrosive grenade crit isn't part of your Cull brochacho) Screenshot 3 - Double Cull Crit for 2677 (again, your corrosive grenade tick isn't par of your Cull) Thanks for proving my point. Also, it's worth mentioning AGAIN because it's a MAJOR flaw with Cull. Cull is a RANGED attack, not tech. It is based off of RANGED ACCURACY and can be saber deflected and evaded as such. This is a BIG DEAL.

Uh, the only thing that lethality gets over concealment in terms of "multi target dotting" is corrosive grenade, which frankly, blows ***. A concealment operative has pretty much the same corrosive dart damage, much better energy management, and no, they don't require stealth. Acid blade + backstab = lots of damage. Concealment can easily DoT 3 people and then focus fire someone and is not super stealht dependent. I don't see how lethality has FAR better AoE when they only get corrosive grenade over a concealment operative. 2k damage over 21 seconds if it doesn't get cleansed times the number of people it hits (usually 1-3 at most because you are trying to keep DoTs on your focus cull target).

I use the pvp set that gives extra range on our interrupt and the extra tick on orbital strike. I swapped out the accuracy enhancement for end/crit/surge ones.

LOLOLOL, trust me. You have nothing to worry about. The intelligent and skilled operatives will stay concealment. Lacerate = 1650 damage with good gear, collateral strike for 430 = 2080 total, round up to 2100. Acid Blade = 1700 damage over 6 seconds with good gear. Hidden strike = 2100 damage with good gear. Backstab = 1700 damage with good gear. vs. Corrosive Grenade = 2000 over 21 seconds, can be AoE Cull = 1200 base + 550 per DoT with good gear. Weakning Blast = 750 + 10x 30% bonus to DoTs . Acid blade poops all over weakning blast and corrosive grenade alone. Only the +550 part of Cull gets +30% from weakening blast. Plus you have to have accuracy on your gear to use Cull reliably because it is based off of ranged accuracy instead of tech. It also can be avoided via evasion and saber ward for the same reason. Assuming best case scenario where you have 2 DoTs, they are under 30% hp, and weakening blast on the target. Your Cull is still only going to hit for 1200+(1100*1.45)= 2800. Sorry but even with 100% surge, you're not going to hit anywhere near 8k. Most targets will be above 30%, most targets will cleanse your DoTs, most targets will poop all over you while you spend 10-15 seconds setting up your "burst." 1.5s = Dart 3s = Grenade 4.5s = Weakening Blast 6s = Shiv 7.5s = Cull That's assuming no lag in between and that you don't get stunned, nor do they cleanse your DoTs. Again, check the spreadsheet I linked. At NO point during a 300 second fight does lethality surpass concealment DPS, nor does it come close to the same burst.

If you're asking for recommendations on how to write the guide, you OBVIOUSLY shouldn't be writing the guide and most likely need one yourself.

Introduction: Reroll This guide brought to you by Flutterspy of The Crucible Pits.

Seems that everyone is ignoring my post with the data that proves concealment does more burst and more sustain. Concealment obviously has more survivability as well.

It's most definitely post-nerf and of course it focuses on PvE. If you want to talk PvP rotations, concealment has a much much easier time getting off the optimal rotation than lethality does due to the wonkiness of lethality. Lethality also has issues with energy while concealment does not. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AulRmPGbKRUjdHlDVUVnc2dtZ3V6c2FNeG9kRXVMM2c&hl=en_US#gid=0

Fixed.

Sithwarrior.com has crunched the numbers to back up the fact that concealment does higher burst and higher sustain than lolethality, but hey, this is the internet, facts don't matter. Therefore, LOLOLUMAD USO BAD LETH SUX CONC PWNZ J00 NUB.

I tried to make it clear, I figured saying solo queue and pug 3x would be enough. This is a solo queue pug group. I'm not on vent with these people. My goal is to get as much valor is possible. Blame BW for not making actually doing the objectives give more valor than kill farming. That being said, when I go into pug groups I tend to focus their best dps or a healer. If I focus a ball carrier, I will give him full resolve and let him walk into the goal. You want to let people knock off/pull the ball carrier to bad spots before you damage him anyways. If I notice my team has a good chance at winning, I'll help objectives when I can. Operatives are terrible in huttball, so I really don't care. I'll NEVER EVER play in ranked huttball on my Operative (I'll play on my powertech) because they are a waste of a slot. I don't care what you say, anything you can do as an Operative in huttball, everyone else does better. The best thing you can do in huttball as an operative is kill their best DPS, kill/occupy their best healer, and keep doing it over and over. You are useless because you have no mobility skills so your goal should be to keep one of their players who CAN actually do something to affect the ball from doing so. You sit near their side and constantly harass and if the opportunity presents itself, you can take a quick pass for a score. Until they give operatives mobility or some form of sustained DPS you should be constantly bursting one of their best players and restealthing over and over again. Otherwise you're just attempting to do something your class wasn't designed for. You are an enforcer, you take out their best player and keep them from doing their thing. If you wanna be a forward or defender, you roll a different class, otherwise you're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. When I play huttball I play saying, "If I don't get to have fun abilities to actually have an impact in this warzone, then you don't get to have fun either." TLDR - Operatives don't go for objectives in huttball, they are a force multiplier that harasses the best enemy DPS and/or healer over and over so that they can't do anything. If you want to go for objectives in huttball, play a sorc, tank sin, juggernaut, or shieldtech powertech. Otherwise, your job is to make it so that if YOU can't have fun, NOBODY can have fun.

I'm sorry but no, just....no. Powertechs/Vanguards and Mercs/Commandos do way more burst and sustain than operatives. They also have more utility via knockbacks and/or pulls and/or charges. Yes, mobility is a problem, but the fact remains that we are the squishiest class in the game without any damage to make up for it.

Yup, I started gearing my 50 ptech after banging my head against the wall on my operative. So little damage, so little utility, so little survivability as evidenced in this huttball http://www.twitch.tv/hoffburger/b/308398528. I'll still do the dailies on my operative in the hopes that they are buffed, but my powertech will be my primary focus for now. They just do so much damage.

Forgive the poor quality, but here is what you can expect from a typical huttball pug if you solo queue as an operative. This is a lucky one in that I didn't get knocked around a lot either. By no means is this my most skilled/best game, but this should give newer players an idea of what to expect from an operative in decently geared warzones. If you care a lot about quality, then don't watch, this isn't a montage video with crazy editing. This is just an excerpt from my stream showing what a typical decently geared operative can expect from huttball when pugging solo. Things to note: - Powertech/Pyrotechs do retarded amounts of damage and burst compared to us - Sorcs dominate huttball - Jarring strike is buggy as hell, sometimes enemies teleport around, sometimes they look like they are facing a direction when they are facing the opposite direction - I am in full champion gear with the enhancements swapped out for crit/surge enhancements, using power adrenal and crit/surge relic - I am extremely squishy and am forced to retreat as soon as anyone looks at me funny TLDR - Not a montage, not best quality, watch if you need to see what a typical champion geared operative pugging huttball looks like http://www.twitch.tv/hoffburger/b/308398528

You're forgetting that concealment also gets a shorter cooldown on vanish, which is our main escape/defensive ability. They can also heal after vanishing, unlike lethality. Lethality has to get in close to do any sort of real damage and at that point, you might as well be concealment. Concealment can still do nearly as much ranged damage as lethality, they just miss out on corrosive grenade, which, to be honest, is terrible. My powertech incendiary missile crits for anywhere between 900-1.2k depending on the target. Lower health targets take more damage, just like lethality. Combustible crits pretty hard too, in the 700 range.

Concealment still does more sustained DPS than lethality operative, has higher burst, has better CC, has better survivability, and has better energy management. Sithwarrior.com has the numbers crunched showing concealment still does more DPS (mainly because the Acid Blade DoT just poops all over corrosive grenade and the lethality damage buff talents blow). Seriously, my pyrotech powertech does more DoT DPS with incendiary missile (1 GCD) than both corrosive dart and corrosive grenade combined. Plus, rail shot does just as much damage as cull and has higher armor pen. Plus, rail shot is way cheaper to use and is often reset and made free by talents.

LLOLOLOLOLOLLLLOLOOLOLOL, my operative would like to have a word with you sir.

Melee without gap closer = retarded design. Assassins at least have a speed boost that can break snares/roots and 30m CC. Operatives have no gap closers and no CC that is >10m range. I think giving them a sprint, a shadowstep, or increasing debilitate/sever tendon to 30m would do the trick. As far as huttball goes, they need a buff in damage or a charge. Otherwise there is no reason to play them over a jugg/ptech/sin. When ranked BGs come out I can't put myself on a team with good conscience because I know I'm hurting the team as an operative unless the whole team skips every huttball.

Operatives clearly weren't part of this design.

Who cares what rotation you use on baddies. Good players are still going to be alive even after an optimal rotation where EVERYTHING crits.

You're clipping your acid blade dot. The optimal rotation is Hidden, lacerate, debilitate, shiv, explosve probe, acid blade backstab. You can swap shiv with lacerate it you want, it really doesn't matter. I just like to lacerate first on the off chance that I get a collateral strike proc. Also, if you think they will get away before you can backstab, you can switch backstab and explosive probe. The main point here is don't clip the acid blade dot, it does a ton of damage. Also, be sure to use explosive probe, it does a ton of damage as well.

When ranged are allowed to do the same damage as melee, you bet your *** they better have 100% uptime. Interrupts don't lock out entire schools and plenty of ranged dps specs don't rely on cast abilities.

Shadowstep. All current operative gap closers are 10m or less. A 30 yard shadowstep on a 20-30 second cooldown (similar to warrior charge) would do wonders for operatives in huttball.