Aidank Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) This is somewhat Anecdotal, but I'm pretty sure this will hold true for just about anyone pvping, over the past 30 or so WZ's i've done (In the 50 and pre-50 brackets) the average sentinel or dpsing guardian (without protection) takes about twice as much damage as much dmg as the average dpsing commando or sorcerer over the course of a warzone, in pretty much every war zone i've joined. What do you think this says, if anything, about pvp? Edited February 9, 2012 by Aidank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetou Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 It says that Sorcerors have shields which absorb damage that doesn't count for the stats, which makes the stats very misleading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somalin Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I didn't even know you could check damage taken on the scoreboard o_O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acyu Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 This is somewhat Anecdotal, but I'm pretty sure this will hold true for just about anyone pvping, over the past 30 or so WZ's i've done (In the 50 and pre-50 brackets) the average sentinel or dpsing guardian (without protection) takes about twice as much damage as much dmg as the average dpsing commando or sorcerer over the course of a warzone, in pretty much every war zone i've joined. What do you think this says, if anything, about pvp? it says that 1. people like to focus fire melees instead of range 2. people let sorcerers sit there and shoot them with lightning These passive aggressive posts about how sorcerers are OP are getting tiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidank Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) It says that Sorcerors have shields which absorb damage that doesn't count for the stats, which makes the stats very misleading. Why is that misleading? Damage mitigated by talents like guarded by the force, or saber ward don't count towards damage taken, and neither does damage mitigated by a mercenary's bubble cd. The only difference is that Sorcerer's defensive cd is a shield, while the others are mitigation. I didn't even know you could check damage taken on the scoreboard o_O Mouseover their deaths. it says that 1. people like to focus fire melees instead of range 2. people let sorcerers sit there and shoot them with lightning These passive aggressive posts about how sorcerers are OP are getting tiring. My most played character is a sorcerer, If I wanted to make a post about how overpowered sorcerers are I wouldn't be passive aggressive about it. Sorcerers are overpowered and if you think otherwise you're just kidding yourself. This isn't a post about how overpowered sorcerers are though. Edited February 9, 2012 by Aidank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Internicio Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 give them 50% dmg reduction = problem solved j/k of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzerbase Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 When you're dead you take no damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradigamer Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I didn't even know you could check damage taken on the scoreboard o_O Me either. Is there a way to check healing taken, too? Would be nice, but if there is, I missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclxviii Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 It tells me, anecdotally, that sentinels and guardians are twice as tough? IF you look at other BioWare games, the solo adventure ones, you will see that the dps rating for melee is MUCH higher than the dps rating for ranged to preserve game balance. From their design and from posts I have read here they are very aware of the fact that a melee will not have as much time on target as a ranged toon. They did not give us a lopsided dps rating in this game like in their others as melee but gave us things like force leap that gives an immobilize. They gave us pbaoe snares. They gave us attacks with 10m and 30m range on cool downs. I am sure that they are quite aware of what they did and how the numbers balance out. They are data delving sons-a-guns too. If there is any issue really with archetypes in this game it is on the player side with learning to identify, prioritize and use a brand new set of abilities in a brand new game and maximize their effectiveness with trial and error instead of just copying and pasting builds and shot rotations/priorities from elitist-jerks.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invictusthetaru Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 it's also because it's way harder for guardians / juggs to get away from being focus fired than almost any other class. sents / maruaders have invis where they can pretty much get behind something and be forgotten about. Range commandos / mercs only have to knock back and then start spamming on melee, considering we are then useless and slowed at range. Everyone knows it's a lot tougher on melees though, so not sure what the point of the thread is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 This is somewhat Anecdotal, but I'm pretty sure this will hold true for just about anyone pvping, over the past 30 or so WZ's i've done (In the 50 and pre-50 brackets) the average sentinel or dpsing guardian (without protection) takes about twice as much damage as much dmg as the average dpsing commando or sorcerer over the course of a warzone, in pretty much every war zone i've joined. What do you think this says, if anything, about pvp? So what you're saying here is that ranged classes who aren't in the middle of the melee blender take less damage than classes who ARE in the melee blender? Was this unexpected somehow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acyu Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 My most played character is a sorcerer, If I wanted to make a post about how overpowered sorcerers are I wouldn't be passive aggressive about it. Sorcerers are overpowered and if you think otherwise you're just kidding yourself. This isn't a post about how overpowered sorcerers are though. These passive aggressive posts about how sorcerers are OP are getting tiring. Thank you for proving my point. I rest my case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidank Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Thank you for proving my point. I rest my case. Either you don't know what passive aggressive means, or you don't know what proving a point means. So what you're saying here is that ranged classes who aren't in the middle of the melee blender take less damage than classes who ARE in the melee blender? Was this unexpected somehow? From what i've gathered, this game is supposed to be balanced around warzones, yet in my opinion at least, they've made warzones that are way too zergy for melee to really compete with ranged. Edited February 9, 2012 by Aidank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Either you don't know what passive aggressive means, or you don't know what proving a point means. From what i've gathered, this game is supposed to be balanced around warzones, yet in my opinion at least, they've made warzones that are way too zergy for melee to really compete with ranged. My melee (which has 0 escape mechanisms once engaged in combat, btw) competes with the ranged just fine, whether I get hit more than they do or not. Then again, my melee has the benefit of being able to shut down most of the ranged classes and go toe-to-toe w/ most of the melee classes. You just need to be a little more careful about the battles you pick as a melee, but I definitely do not feel that I have an "easier" time in warzones on my Sorc than my Pyro PT. In most 1v1 situations, the PT actually has a much easier time than the Sorc due to much higher burst capability (which is not tied to activation times) and decent control from the permasnare. The Sorc has to kite and run, and do minimal damage. My PT can also kite, but doesn't always have to, and can do very respectable damage whether I'm being attacked or not. I guess anecdotal evidence is pretty anecdotal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidank Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) My melee (which has 0 escape mechanisms once engaged in combat, btw) competes with the ranged just fine, whether I get hit more than they do or not. Then again, my melee has the benefit of being able to shut down most of the ranged classes and go toe-to-toe w/ most of the melee classes. You just need to be a little more careful about the battles you pick as a melee, but I definitely do not feel that I have an "easier" time in warzones on my Sorc than my Pyro PT. In most 1v1 situations, the PT actually has a much easier time than the Sorc due to much higher burst capability (which is not tied to activation times) and decent control from the permasnare. The Sorc has to kite and run, and do minimal damage. My PT can also kite, but doesn't always have to, and can do very respectable damage whether I'm being attacked or not. I guess anecdotal evidence is pretty anecdotal. In a objective based pvp system the idea of picking your fights is completely ridiculous, If i'm in voidstar I can't just decide not to defend the door anymore because It's going to turn into a zerg. I can't decide to leave the ball carrier alone because he's got too many people defending him, I can't decide to just let them have my node in aldaraan. I realize there are scenarios where melee are competitive, and If I had the luxury of picking my fights I would, but in the vast majority of scenarios I find my sorcerer to be far better than my sentinel or scoundrel because I can do well in the massive zergs that surround objectives. Edited February 9, 2012 by Aidank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee-Jay Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Melees have to get right into the frey to deal their damage. That's the nature of a melee class. People commonly attack the most obvious and most "threatening" target first, which is commonly a melee class. I guarantee you that melees die a lot more often than ranged classes too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) In a objective based pvp system the idea of picking your fights is completely ridiculous, If i'm in voidstar I can't just decide not to defend the door anymore because It's going to turn into a zerg. I can't decide to leave the ball carrier alone because he's got too many people defending him, I can't decide to just let them have my node in aldaraan. I realize there are scenarios where melee are competitive, and If I had the luxury of picking my fights I would, but in the vast majority of scenarios I find my sorcerer to be far better than my sentinel or scoundrel because I can do well in the massive zergs that surround objectives. I always do pretty well in the massive zergs that surround objectives as a melee. If you think you're going to get focused while defending the ball carrier, jump to an open spot and wait for a pass, or leap to a safer part of the battle, vanish and survive. Sent definitely has way more defensive mechanisms than my PT does, I don't see why it would have any more trouble in the melee fray w/ a higher damage output and better defensive cds. Scoundrel in Huttball, well, I can feel your pain on that one, as you don't have any real escapes or mobility outside of stealth. Everyone dies defending the door in Voidstar, but you can try to minimize the deaths to ranged by utilizing the ton of LoS objects near the door. You can LoS people firing from the sides by running around the corner beside the door itself, and you can LoS people firing from the center by hiding behind the pillars. If necessary, you can always leap back to the door to stop caps, or shoot them if you're on the scoundrel. Voidstar is the easiest place to pick your battles, because everyone is generally focused on something else and stragglers abound. Alderaan, depending on the node, you don't have to leave it ever. You can even use the node itself for LoS against ranged classes, making them either target someone else or moronically come to you and eat massive melee damage. Sure, sometimes, if you need to focus that key person as a melee, you are going to sacrifice yourself by exposing yourself to the enemy team's blender, but if you are a dps sacrificing yourself to take out one of their healers, or an active guarding tank, or making a bunch of their team chase you away from the nodes, that's a temporary victory in my book. Most of the times, you can pick your battles okay, as long as you maintain awareness of your surroundings and the LoS objects around you to minimize the amount of people who can pewpew you from ranged. With LoS everywhere, it's usually easy to escape most ranged classes fury unless you get caught out in the open for too long. The melee classes, however, are almost impossible to escape if played intelligently. If you're that guy who runs straight to the middle turret while they have an entire line of ranged classes focus firing anyone out in the open, well... you're going to die, and that is your own fault, not the fault of being a melee class. Edited February 9, 2012 by Varicite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeren Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 My most played character is a sorcerer, If I wanted to make a post about how overpowered sorcerers are I wouldn't be passive aggressive about it. Sorcerers are overpowered and if you think otherwise you're just kidding yourself. This isn't a post about how overpowered sorcerers are though. When they nerf scoundrals burst (not the faux nerf that they already got) commanders then I'll accept that Sorcerers are overpowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageLaL Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 When you're dead you take no damage. This. Damage taken by itself is a useless stat to compare, should also look at protection and deaths for a more complete picture, either way this thread has no proof it just assumes that every game will have the same outcome as the OPs limited experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insanitywiz Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 As a sage, I focus fire melee because I am AoE specced, and there are usually 2+ melee close together. If I can focus on groups of ranged/healing people, I do that instead, but that doesn't happen anywhere near as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeezkos Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 If they're taking more damage it's probably because they are being focused for being right in the middle of everything, AND they are probably getting healed too.. your health is a finite supply, after all.. to take more damage than you have health (per death) you must be getting healed. A tank archetype in the thick of things is doing his job and getting attention, whether or not they are tank specced.. which means they will absorb more damage than other classes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexster Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Melees take more damage because 1) they are focused for being up in the enemies face 2) they are usually more bunched up than ranged therefore they are pelted with aoes 3) they take damage from ranged on approach to target whether it be the initial approach or second and third due to knockbacks, roots, snares, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralProjection Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 As the focus of that fire most of the time I can tell you it's a couple things - 1) Any DPS should be killed quickly. Melee DPS is more obvious usually, because they're right in your face, so they're the first to get focused. If you ignore them, shame on you because if the person knows what they're doing they'll kill a few of you. 2) Sentinels are a pretty easy kill depending on spec - Once your defensive cooldowns, pacify, and your "holy sh*t" damage reduction wears off, you drop like you're wearing paper mache, which usually only gives us a minute long window to dps - less if you're being focused by several people. With a healer it's a different story, but a Sentinel with no healing help is an easy kill. Our only recourse is try to use Force Camo and get away long enough to medpack and hope you don't chase us. 3) As others said, bubbled folks take less damage, Imperial side has tons of Sorcs, sorcs bubble themselves and teammates if they're smart. The bubbles not only make them take less damage, but add to their healing IIRC, making them a huge boost to both player and team. With more bubblers on the Sith side, Jedi Knights are probably the most hammered on class in the game and the numbers usually prove that. 4) Sentinels don't have to be squishy, like I said, with a healer we're pretty damn powerful, but most players are smart enough to test the waters. If they see you aren't getting heals dropped on you, they have you flagged for an easy kill and repeatedly go for you, skewing the numbers even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousferret Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 When they nerf scoundrals burst (not the faux nerf that they already got) commanders then I'll accept that Sorcerers are overpowered. Lololololololololo.o. Sorry but that's a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousferret Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I love playing melee, and often get frustrated that ranged dps at times have it very easy to farm but you have go into this game as melee understanding that you are going to die fast at times, and sometimes you'll feel like a pinball. However the game is no funner when you are in the middle of the zerg laying waste to everyone. You have to be a sadist to play melee, and in the few 'all melee vs all ranged wz's ranged trounces us, but they can keep the 'w,w,w,w,w' rotations and I'll stick to living fast and dying young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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