Alot people forget that this game is new...

[Caelc]

Did WoW have independent stories per class? Nope.

 

Does leveling feel like a grind in Wow because of this. yep.

Does the grind make the game get very tedious and boring just to get to cap? Yep.

 

Did Swtor try and do something different by trying to get rid of the grind feel? Yep.

 

so what do we do, complain it isn't exactly like wow in every regard. So what I have been reading is people just want a re-skinned version of Wow after 7+ years of wow development.

 

 

This game is Swtor, not WoW and it is trying to compete by offering story that lasts you from level 1-50 that is how it is trying to differentiate itself, and it is that very reason why I am playing because every other MMO in existence is a straight up grind to cap with no real purpose but to grind. At least this game is about completing the story to 50.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Wekeltes

[Azzras]

If a new big box store wants to challenge Walmart for top retailer, does it have to compete and be better than the thousands of stores today or the Walmart of the 1960s? The "it's still new" argument isn't a valid excuse, it may be for bugs, but not for features.

 

What new company could hope to compete w/ Walmart?

 

Really?

[ferroz]

Do new car makers compare themselves to the Model T?

If a new car lacked one of the features that the Model T did, it would certainly be compared to it. but otherwise no, they get compared to other contemporaneity cars.

 

Interestingly enough, one of the features that made the model T so great was the fact that it was easily modifiable, a feature that SW:TOR lacks.

[Napalm_AKI]

People are whining for Dungeon Finders, Damage Meters, Threath meters, Healing Meters, Balanced PVP etc etc. And I understand that, cause I want those things aswell.

 

BUT stop saying that SW:ToR is a failed game because they don't have all this, while for example WoW does. WoW had NOTHING, and I repeat NOTHING, of this at launch

 

....

 

Most of your argument here implies that you expect new MMO to start from the same base line as the others. I'm afraid thats not how it works. Can you imagine someone trying to release a new smart phone today with the base functionality of just a phone and then when ppl start comparing it to the latest gen iPhone and all the nifty extras that it has and then also costs the same come up with an excuse that iPhone was on the market longer?

 

I can understand that there is not as much content as in WoW, cause content is something that gets added over time, provided there is enough of it from the get go to get people interested. But the functionality? Thats just a given imho, all those damage meters, dungeon finders, guild features, gui should be part of the standard package.

[Tarka]

Did WoW have independent stories per class? Nope.

 

Does leveling feel like a grind in Wow because of this. yep.

Does the grind make the game get very tedious and boring just to get to cap? Yep.

 

Did Swtor try and do something different by trying to get rid of the grind feel? Yep.

 

so what do we do, complain it isn't exactly like wow in every regard. So what I have been reading is people just want a re-skinned version of Wow after 7+ years of wow development.

 

 

This game is Swtor, not WoW and it is trying to compete by offering story that lasts you from level 1-50 that is how it is trying to differentiate itself, and it is that very reason why I am playing because every other MMO in existence is a straight up grind to cap with no real purpose but to grind. At least this game is about completing the story to 50.

 

When Ford starting putting CD players in their cars, did they scrimp on other features that were expected as standard at the time? No.

 

This MMO, like many others before it, has exclusive "features". But that doesn't justify excluding other features that are now expected as standard.

 

Let's put this into perspective: the game doesn't even have a /roll or /random number generation functionality for players to use in groups and raids. So when Bioware implemented Master Looter functionality, did they just expect players to use the "Guess my number" game to sort out loot distribution?

 

So if Bioware "forgets" to implement something as simplistic as that, God help those people asking for more sophisticated things like a combat log.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Tarka

[dracoda]

People are whining for Dungeon Finders, Damage Meters, Threath meters, Healing Meters, Balanced PVP etc etc. And I understand that, cause I want those things aswell.

 

BUT stop saying that SW:ToR is a failed game because they don't have all this, while for example WoW does. WoW had NOTHING, and I repeat NOTHING, of this at launch.

 

Why would you compare WoW's launch to TOR's launch? No one is making a choice between playing launch day WoW and TOR. The bar for success is set by the days most successful game in it's current state - not what it was when it started.

 

When MS entered the console market, they didn't release a system on par with the original NES or PS1 and claim they were just starting out - they released a system on par with the competition (cube/ps2). Who DOES release a product on part with what their competition was doing several years past and expect success? Ridiculous argument - people should stop making it.

 

That being said, I wouldn't call the game a failure. Sure, some servers need to be merged NOW, before we loose more people (I switched from one heavy server that averaged about 30 people on fleet during prime time to another heavy server that averaged about 200 at the same time). I think while they missed some hard-core requirements, they really nailed it for the casual players who like the storyline and dialogue.

 

I'd say they still have a solid chance to maintain a level of success.

[Kyus]

Apologies for my gross editing of my previous post, however I will endeavour to address your points....

 

thought i'd write into your quote, but no apologies neccessary i tend to only browse forums at work so I know how you can tidy something up after a hasty post.

 

Really? Should return? Based on what? You are assuming the 1.2 update covers all concerns that players have who are remotely interested in that update. It would be foolish to make such an assumption.

 

For instance, a player MAY be looking forward to one aspect in that update, but still has many concerns that haven't been addressed yet.

 

I think you entirely miss understood me here simply because I said theoretically they should, but you know as well as I that everyone has a different opinion and a very large proportion of modern mmo gamers are not happy unless they recieve instant gratification.

 

I also would like to say that I simply implied that if the features they were concerned with were added or fixed I never insisted that everything would be

 

You are making assumptions and generalisations about the complaints of people you don't really know that well. In essence you are attempting to discredit their opinions because they differ to your own. Labelling all concerns as "complaining for the sake of complaining". The simple fact is that opinions differ as to the level of quality which this product has. Some like it, some don't. Neither side is right or wrong.

 

Is it really so wrong to expect more from a company who has a reputation for quality?

 

 

 

Whilst one person may have infinite patience, others may not. Especially those who have previously tried to stand by devs of other MMO's, believing that everything will turn out right in the end. Only to be burnt by a lack of good management and excessive arrogance on the part of the devs.

 

very true, I firmly believe the game stands up infinitely better in comparison to all the launch titles I have played over recent years. I also feel that the patches since launch have addressed issues at a respectable speed. communication has been poor to start and improved on which is good to see. Whilst it doesn't have the features of games that have been worked on over countless years it does have a stable build to bolt on these elements in time.

 

Not to sound disrespectful but I would take a community that has more patience even if it is dramatically smaller any day than one that wants too much instant gratification.

 

History has already proven MANY times now that time is not a luxury that MMO devs can afford to squander. Communication and perception are key to the success of an MMO. Solutions need to be found in a timely and reasonable manner. If players feel that their concerns are not being addressed....they will walk. It's that simple. And one thing that is common in all industries is this:

 

It is often cheaper and easier to keep an existing customer, than to try to entice one back.

 

I quite agree with everything that you have said, and from my previous posts you can see that whilst I am enjoying the game I am aware that there are many features that you can find in similar titles missing. My only real point is that whilst the community may see 2 months of gameplay to be a very long time to accomodate features they have grown accustomed to that the title actually handles its self in other areas a lot better in particular class balance.

 

TL;DR I quite agree with you on everything you say though you have misrepresented my opinions a little bit. In short I'm more patient than most, but the state of the game at present is a lot better than is represented on the forums.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Kyus

[Blacktailstalker]

ToR was new back in December, we're in 2012 now. Deal with it.

 

You my friend don't understand the market, you see Bioware already made a success with this game (profit). This game is 2 months old, MMORPG's is a different market than those games who don't require an internet connection or for you to be online. MMORPG's believe it or not these days despite what they advertise for the minimum requirements or despite how you might think of the graphics, it has nothing to do with that. By nature MMORPG's require alot of resources from your computer, their HUGE games to be installed in your computer and it requires online connection that is part of the programming of the game and if there are issues between the servers and your computer (which their will always be and need constant monitoring, thus the maintenance every week) it also needs modifications every month with patches so the game runs smooth on your computer regarding the online aspect. So, everytime a patch comes out it creates a side effect, and they have to deal with it and bioware is doing a fair job so far. What you must understand, when your signature implies that you must be presented with a game that gives you a good impression is for single player games that don't require an internet connection and does not require a HUGE resource from your computer, and not MMORPG"S because MMORPG"S are an evolving breed and require patching every 2-3 weeks or month unlike a single player game. So, which boils down to the fact that you don't understand how MMORPG's work and you if you did, you would understand that Bioware will do it's best to make their MMOPRG work in the long run and make the game viable in the years to come to please the community. Single player games are a 1 shot deal, if they work they make profit and if they dont they can't come back and fix it as much as MMORPG's do.

[Halvos]

This game is Swtor, not WoW and it is trying to compete by offering story that lasts you from level 1-50 that is how it is trying to differentiate itself, and it is that very reason why I am playing because every other MMO in existence is a straight up grind to cap with no real purpose but to grind. At least this game is about completing the story to 50.

 

So it's a single player game? Then they shouldn't be charging a monthly fee. 1-50 was fun, I enjoyed it. Yet at 50 the game turns into what everyone is currently complaining about. And before you tell me to roll an alt, I did. I can only handle the linear leveling for so long.

[Daboozy]

I think the massive drops in subscriptions from start till now answer this question

[Caelc]

So it's a single player game? Then they shouldn't be charging a monthly fee. 1-50 was fun, I enjoyed it. Yet at 50 the game turns into what everyone is currently complaining about. And before you tell me to roll an alt, I did. I can only handle the linear leveling for so long.

 

and I will take the linear leveling over grinding with no real purpose any day.

[GalacticKegger]

A guy: "I love your Mercedes SL-550 roadster, but I want it with the style and feel of a mid-engine Porsche 911 Carrera."

 

Mercedes sales guy: "Mercedes does not make mid engine cars. That is unless you custom order either a purpose built McLaren Mercedes Formula 1 race car, or a CLK-LM/CLR GT to race at LeMans."

 

A guy: "But Porsche does it, they have since their inception, and they race at LeMans. You're both Deutsche car companies and you both have access to the same Autobahn to test on. It's all the same German engineering. So what is your problem?"

 

Mercedes sales guy: "We aren't Porsche."

Edited February 14, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[wtb_skillz]

I am so tired of this bad bad bad argument. Very true WoW did not have a lot of start hell it didnt have BGs or anything. However when you are making a game you have over 10 years of other games to draw on. You going to tell me that games that came out after WoW did NOT improve on initial launches? Age of Conan went the story route/phasing with Tortage and they attempted a version of the "Action Combat" Aion went with flying as a part of the game. Rift had macros/bgs/achievements/robust UI manipulation built in and a working guild perk system. The excuse of a game is new just does not fly as it did 5+ years ago. I mean to release a game without even the very least a form of combat logging or even a basic macro is astounding to me.

 

It is also like they didnt learn anything from the other tons of PvP problems games prior had with stale boring win trading for world pvp objectives. The guild functionality is AWFUL other games of late came out with good guild perks/UI. I cant even invite someone from the guild list?! I mean really. Whats the point of a guild lol I actually have a friends list that i keep all my guild members on because I can at least invite from there.

 

Now all problems aside I do enjoy the game, but would I or others enjoy it if it WAS NOT star wars I dont think so. This argument sucks stop using it. You are allowed to ask why a game of this day and age doesnt have things 8 year old games had at launch already. That is your right as a consumer. Obviously we also know the flip side that companies pressure you to release early...and companies all do this they focus so much on their selling point that other aspects lack. Obviously tons of manpower time had to go into the vast story/voiceover aspect of swtor so other parts got the back burner. Conans Tortage Style ended after you left, warhammers RVR selling point was borked, Aions flying required potions kinda made it feel cheap, rifts robust macro system made the game about spamming one button lessening the validity. All companies have their problems but this game did not improve on many existing things other games launched with well.

[Inixus]

I understand you, but its not 2004, if your gonna make a car your not gonna look at the model T, you look at the 2012 models, its no shame to take over whatever works in other games.

 

And let them say that the game will fail, it dosnt affect my decision to play.

[Jerec_Calen]

most of the people complaining are PVPrs which most of them complain about everything anyways.I really wish pvp players didn't fund the game so they could just get rid of pvp so they could focus on story but hey pvp players are the games bread and butter and the majority likes pvp so I really have no right to say anything lol

[Halvos]

most of the people complaining are PVPrs which most of them complain about everything anyways.I really wish pvp players didn't fund the game so they could just get rid of pvp so they could focus on story but hey pvp players are the games bread and butter and the majority likes pvp so I really have no right to say anything lol

 

This post is just wrong about so many things.

[Setanian]

I could make an list what SW:ToR had from the absolute start, that WoW didn't have, but I'll skip that, since it will take ages. Just think of it..

 

Well it's convenient that you want to omit your list.. But guess what, I want to hear it..

 

No, really, lets hear this fantastically huge list you have.. And then, let's have the list that any acceptable MMO should have at launch that ToR didn't..

[Tic-]

A guy: "I love your Mercedes SL-550 roadster, but I want it with the style and feel of a mid-engine Porsche 911 Carrera."

 

Mercedes sales guy: "Mercedes does not make mid engine cars. That is unless you custom order either a purpose built McLaren Mercedes Formula 1 race car, or a CLK-LM/CLR GT to race at LeMans."

 

A guy: "But Porsche does it, they have since their inception, and they race at LeMans. You're both Deutsche car companies and you both have access to the same Autobahn to test on. It's all the same German engineering. So what is your problem?"

 

Mercedes sales guy: "We aren't Porsche."

 

A developer sales guy: We're going to make a new MMO, and we're going to essentailly have the same end game as the biggest one in the world.

 

A gamer guy: Yea but you left a lot of stuff out that I'm used to playing with.

 

A developer sales guy: Its not done yet?

 

A gamer guy: Call me when your done?

 

I hate analogies when it comes to MMOs.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Tic-

[GalacticKegger]

A developer sales guy: We're going to make a new MMO, and we're going to essentailly have the same end game as the biggest one in the world.

 

A gamer guy: Yea but you left a lot of stuff out that I'm used to playing with.

 

A developer sales guy: Its not done yet?

 

A gamer guy: Call me when your done?

 

I hate analogies when it comes to MMOs.

The beauty of MMOs ... they are every bit as artificial as analogies, and just as subjective in congruity. No one wins this argument but it's fun as hell watching people try. Edited February 14, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[wtb_skillz]

most of the people complaining are PVPrs which most of them complain about everything anyways.I really wish pvp players didn't fund the game so they could just get rid of pvp so they could focus on story but hey pvp players are the games bread and butter and the majority likes pvp so I really have no right to say anything lol

 

You just blew my mind up with thrown around generalizations. Aside form ilum PvP is the only thing I feel works well. Focus on story there is plenty of story no shortage on story. However that runs out then you need content that works consistently.

[detho]

Excuses, This is a 2012 game, it needs to launch with the standard features otherwise why play it? Tera is launching with an LFG tool and a combat log and everything, i'm probably going to switch over to that game because it is going to have everything i want in an MMO right out of the gate.

 

But people might not want to click the lfg button then wait for the pop for a disappointing run. As for myself im glad swtor doesn’t have a lfg system because that would ruin the game as far as community goes and people will be mega ***** to new mmo players. All im saying is that sometimes every one needs community not clicking a button

[Syylara]

But people might not want to click the lfg button then wait for the pop for a disappointing run. As for myself im glad swtor doesn’t have a lfg system because that would ruin the game as far as community goes and people will be mega ***** to new mmo players. All im saying is that sometimes every one needs community not clicking a button

 

I can sit in general chat spamming for a group and end up with a disappointing run.

 

People can be jerks to new MMO players in group that is formed without an LFG tool.

 

"An LFG tool will ruin the community" has got to be one of the most vacuous platitudes I've seen presented to date.

[ReddNekk]

give me dual spec and i don't give a rats *** if nothing happens in other patches for 3 months

 

There it is!

[GalacticKegger]

I can sit in general chat spamming for a group and end up with a disappointing run.

 

People can be jerks to new MMO players in group that is formed without an LFG tool.

The same can be said for players in a group formed with a LFG tool. The difference is there's no accountability for a LFG player's actions unless it's same-server. Delinquents can annonymously ninja, blatantly blast through mobs like they're OP soloing and wipe everyone, or simply rage quit - and know they'll get away with it. Nothings flips a new MMO player's off switch like being caught in a random drive-by. Yes this can happen with or without a LFG tool. But at least if perps are on the same server as the party they'll have to answer to the community. I've seen it happen to a few bad eggs already and watched them leave Nihilus because they essentially incarcerated themselves. Our server is pretty tight in that respect, and that's a good thing imho. Edited February 14, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[sophroniscus]

Tell what keeps people playing this game. Is it the fact its star wars? The most biggest mistake ever that swtor is forget that MMO need to have guild functions. People say oh this is new. Well they launch a 30 day beta and I bet a lot of them said "where is the guild bank" Where is the perks in having a guild? Yeah did they listen... nope. They are more concern with numbers and money. If that is the case then make this game console game instead of MMO. You want numbers and drive. Put perks put guild bank, put guild ship whatever. That what brings people in they join they get in a group they have fun they have a purpose etc. Another mistake is learn from what other MMO's put before you and their mistakes. You have another MMO coming right up behind you soon they back off and watch so they cannot make the same mistakes as you did swtor in the beginning.

 

Putting off will cause more problems you probably will get flood of emails saying why my guild is only level 1 and we been here since beta. Well then you can look at yourself and said well uhhhh yeah i forgot. Its up to you your choice and good luck and thank you for a possible good game.