SirSlayAlot Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 5 Years in wow says you are lying Lol.... WoW is instanced, it just doesn't have big green doors because Bioware are amatures at MMO and Blizzard are Pros at it. Just because you can't see big green entry points in the world, doesn't mean it's not there. Remember in Wrath in Dragonspire (don't think that is right) zone where you defeated an army at the gates of something or other and after that, all the NPC's were gone and new ones were there, and you got a title from it. The was all instanced to you and only you. Other players who were in the same area, but not completed the quests, saw the original NPC army still there. If you played WoW for 5 years and never picked up on this then............ ouch.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymanus Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Drop the ignorance and listen to what I am about to tell you. Lets say there are 10 people online on my friends list and 4 of them need help with quests on different planets. Do you really think I am going to waste my time with 10 loading screens and those annoying useless instanced bays? Get real here, you can't defend every aspect of this game. This thread is talking about several different things as if they are the same thing. Sorry to use your post as an example but it suits the need. What you are describing above are different zones you have to travel through to get to an area. This has nothing to do with sharding or instancing. What you have described above is present in every mmo (that I am aware of). In some MMO's the zones are larger than others but they all have zones. Instanced areas i.e dungens/FP/raids/operations what ever you want to call them are there so that you are able to complete them without others causing you grief. Again almost all themepark MMO's (that I aware of) utilize the function (and for good reason). Sharding is the use of separate shards or 'copy's' (or instances if semantics bother you) of a world or zone. This is used to limit the amount of users in a particular 'open' worlds area at any one time (for various reasons). People are melding these terms and issues they have with each of them into one and that is causing confusion and more arguments as people are debating one thing when the argument or point is is for another. My point here is please be clear when discussing an issue you have with one of these as they are separate, and can exist independently of one another, even though your issue may be the combination of them in this particular...instance. Sorry for the wall of text and I apologize if I was not clear. It's just frustrating to read a retort or counter point to an augment that is clearly debating a separate subject. Edited February 9, 2012 by Jaymanus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerveau Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Lol.... WoW is instanced, it just doesn't have big green doors because Bioware are amatures at MMO and Blizzard are Pros at it. Just because you can't see big green entry points in the world, doesn't mean it's not there. Remember in Wrath in Dragonspire (don't think that is right) zone where you defeated an army at the gates of something or other and after that, all the NPC's were gone and new ones were there, and you got a title from it. The was all instanced to you and only you. Other players who were in the same area, but not completed the quests, saw the original NPC army still there. If you played WoW for 5 years and never picked up on this then............ ouch.... you're talking about one specific item and wrongly deduce that the whole wow world is instanced when it isnt. the example you are talking about is one quest, that may have been instanced but game world of wow isnt, only the dungeons are. Edited February 9, 2012 by cerveau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surakis Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 why is this "MMO" totaly instanced? Every part is instanced. Both flash points and standard areas. I am confused why did they do this? It's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surakis Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 you're talking about one specific item and wrongly deduce that the whole wow world is instanced when it isnt. the example you are talking about is one quest, that may have been instanced but game world of wow isnt, only the dungeons are. You can be in different "phases" in the open world and not see what another sees. It's is similar to instancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundledeep Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 If your going to make an mmo why segregate all the players ? If its because your servers suck it sounds like bad planning. No one can argue that an mmo should hide all the players from each other. The game feels like a long corridor that you are being hand held through. To make matters worse the world feels like a painting. You can see, but you can touch and nothing feels alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindChill Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Seeing as how I am new to MMO's what is the problem here? I get the basic concept of instance(such as an area where when one enters the rest of the MMO community is cut out, even when they enter a new zone is created for them) but how is this entire MMO instanced? Do you mean the entire story line? Also why is the game being fully "instanced" a bad thing? In no way trying to flame, I am new to this whole MMO thing so I would like to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedlosson Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) If you do not count FPs and Operations (which are instanced in every MMO game), only group quests and class quests are instanced. It is made this way so people would not kill each others monsters off. The group quests (or their bonuses) are designed to kill a certain number of creatures which usually corresponds to 80-90% of enemy population in instanced area. Many people find it annoying having been forced to wait for respawns. All other quests (90% of content) are not instanced. Unless you count sharding, but that does not take place most of the day (only during peak hours or on fleet). Unlike in WOW where each player has different instanced quest stage (Icecrown etc. - "Help me, pls, summon people to ICC raid, oh wait, we cant see each other..." ) Edited February 9, 2012 by Jedlosson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithSlap Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Does anyone else feel BW didnt think through open world PVP? I mean why even have PVP servers, when quest dont really bring you anywhere near the opposing factions areas. Not a wow fanboy, but I just want to give an example for those who played wow. Remember tauren mill, southshore, lakeshire, darkshire, STV, Barrens??? those places at anytime could have epic 4v4, 5v5, etc. battles. The feeling of questing and having to really be aware of whose around you. World PVP in SWTOR tends to only happen when one faction wants to gank others. Just wondering how everyone else feels about the whole open world PVP situation. Enjoy the post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havokk Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Seeing as how I am new to MMO's what is the problem here? The problem is that the original poster doesn't know what they are talking about. I get the basic concept of instance … but how is this entire MMO instanced? It is not. SWTOR partitions its players in three ways. By Server: Players have no interaction at all with players on other server. Players on the same server can see each other, use /say to communicate, chat (if same faction), send email (same faction) and so on. By Shard: When you go into the World Map window and you see down the bottom right "Coruscant(2)" then you are in instance number 2. Players cannot see players on other shards but can chat with them. Players can move their characters to another shard using the World Map. As far as I am aware, General and Trade chat channels are across all shards. By Instance: When you or your party enter a green curtain you get a new instance of the dungeon created just for you. If ten groups are doing a dungeon then there are 10 instances of the dungeon. Space docks are not instanced. If 10 people visit Korriban then all 10 will see each other in the Space Dock (until they enter the green curtains). If you are in the space docks then you still have access to the planet's chat channels. Also why is the game being fully "instanced" a bad thing? Seeing a small number of people makes a game feel lonely. Walking into Coruscant and seeing 500 characters running around is nice because it makes you feel part of a large community. Why does a game designer pick instancing? becuase 500 characters running around Coruscant requires processor and memory and network traffic. Your client now has to get network traffic about all 500 and redraw them moving around and changing their gear and casting spells and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opapanax Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Why does it bother you? totally = proper spelling For me it really is breaking immersion in alot of places. I feel closed in more than any other time I've ever played an MMO. The "green"" and "red" doors make me feel like I'm not playing a true MMO but something more along the lines of .hack a simulation world of an actual MMO. It feels very fabricated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundledeep Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 ^^ good explanation. It's one of the biggest problems I have with this game. Everywhere except the starting zone and the fleet feels completely dead and lifeless. If you aren't use to mmos then you don't actually know what your missing. Especially when you go on a pvp server for the thrill of being ganked or doing it yourself and then you never see anyone but your companion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor_atomic Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 For me it really is breaking immersion in alot of places. I feel closed in more than any other time I've ever played an MMO. The "green"" and "red" doors make me feel like I'm not playing a true MMO but something more along the lines of .hack a simulation world of an actual MMO. It feels very fabricated. What would you suggest to control access to class quests? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundledeep Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Class quests and what not aren't the problem. It is the sharding of the main worlds. I think people are just not articulating what they mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor_atomic Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 In the old days people used to fill up a zone until it crashed, is that the experience you are looking for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kijthae Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 There are 2 ways to make story and leveling flow.1st is instancing and other is phasing the world. Swtor uses instances and phases environment inside of the instances. I dont find it disturbing they designed a functional and fluid system to convey the huge story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundledeep Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I am looking for more than seeing myself walking through the tunneled world I have been given even on peak times. If this game has so many people playing it why don't you ever see them outside of fleet ? its fricken lame it feels like a single player game. BTW I don't ever remember wow crashing because more than 50 people were in a zone together. I hate to reference another game, but you started it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opapanax Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) What would you suggest to control access to class quests? I can't say specifically what would fix it for me. But what I can tell you is that what is going on now, does not work for me. I think back to something like Ultima Online (I know I know) but even this title was able to hold me and the 40 other people (Private RP shard) in one area at a time. Yes demands on graphics and cpu were lower then, but in the same right technology was more limited. What Bioware has done here is create something that just performs badly, in both the feel of the enviroments, to pvp, and all sort of things ranging from the minute to the most serious. This although it "works" is maybe one of the buggiest "finished" products I have played across all platforms. PC and console, the only game I can think of that was as broken in design and application is perhaps Dragon Ball Z: Budaki on the Gamecube. A title that was backed by a big IP but just sucked as a game because of development flaws. I'm happy that Bioware did something different, I'm very pleased they've brought story back to MMO's but they left out about 70% of the other things that come along with it. The story telling gives a paper bag, thats labled "Air"... after the cutscene ends. You go to take a breath of said bag to recouperate from the awesomness and find out; the bastards punched holes into the bottom. SWTOR is Highley Questionable.. and I ask you.. Is SWTOR a AAA title? Si o No? (dont know how to do the proper "?" for this) Edited February 9, 2012 by Opapanax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor_atomic Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Personally I think seeing a couple of dozen people swarming a neighbourhood in Nar Shaddaa would be pretty lame. I see enough people when I am playing but I don't like crowded hunting zones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sizzurps Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 why is this "MMO" totaly instanced? Every part is instanced. Both flash points and standard areas. I am confused why did they do this? Lackluster engine and lazy coders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor_atomic Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) I ask you this.. Is SWTOR a AAA title? Yes or No It is in my opinion, and I don't see all the bugs people complain about. The only bug I can recall seeing lately is the one where you come out of an instance exit, run a few steps, and get turned around to face the way you came. I had a problem with memory leaks a few weeks ago but that went away. All MMOs (and video games in general) require suspending disbelief here and there, and I don't find SWTOR any worse than others in that respect. Red and green doors are merely a convention for communication to the player. At least no one is shooting guns and fighting in armour while underwater. Edited February 9, 2012 by doctor_atomic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmchairMagpie Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Lol.... WoW is instanced, it just doesn't have big green doors because Bioware are amatures at MMO and Blizzard are Pros at it. Just because you can't see big green entry points in the world, doesn't mean it's not there. Remember in Wrath in Dragonspire (don't think that is right) zone where you defeated an army at the gates of something or other and after that, all the NPC's were gone and new ones were there, and you got a title from it. The was all instanced to you and only you. Other players who were in the same area, but not completed the quests, saw the original NPC army still there. If you played WoW for 5 years and never picked up on this then............ ouch.... That's phasing not instancing. Phasing is just switching through condition-based object visibilities within the same instance. Whereas instancing is just putting you into a copied instance of the area. You can have phasing in instances. While phasing would indeed solve the issue of having little instanced areas it wouldn't be without flaws though. Phases cannot be reset like instances can. Phases are shared with other people in the same area so you could grief away. Besides the areas would just have to be filled up with filler mobs or left empty (like WoW does in some cases). You can easily invite people who have finished a quest into an area to help you, not necessarily so with phases. Phasing has its places in one-time non-repeatable events like when you want to visualize a changing world otherwise even phasing had its little whines surprisingly similar to instancing. I don't think SW:TOR's engine is cut out for phasing (yet). Edited February 9, 2012 by ArmchairMagpie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voel_Arc Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Because the people making the decisions have no idea that instanced MMO's always fail. City of Heroes has been out longer than WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opapanax Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) It is in my opinion, and I don't see all the bugs people complain about. The only bug I can recall seeing lately is the one where you come out of an instance exit, run a few steps, and get turned around to face the way you came. I had a problem with memory leaks a few weeks ago but that went away. All MMOs (and video games in general) require suspending disbelief here and there, and I don't find SWTOR any worse than others in that respect. Red and green doors are merely a convention for communication to the player. At least no one is shooting guns and fighting in armour while underwater. That's good that you don't run into many of the bugs that plenty of others are having. It's good that perhaps you don't participate in PvP (Warzones and Dailies in Illum), I advice you continue to stay away from those things for many are finding them frustrating. You are the target audiance that Bioware was seeking in their project. They hit the mark there and I have given them credit time over for this. These pro's however just don't out shine the issues I'm having. Here's another one.. 'Exhaustain Zones'.. I mean *** is this ****.. what is going on!?!?!? Why am I dieing!?!!? Run back.. HURRY FOOL!!!.. GTFOTW Khem.. I don't give a **** about your old master... ***** move!! /rant Ehm.. Sorry Edited February 9, 2012 by Opapanax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor_atomic Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) That's good that you don't run into many of the bugs that plenty of others are having. It's good that perhaps you don't participate in PvP (Warzones and Dailies in Illum), I advice you continue to stay away from those things for many are finding them frustrating. You are the target audiance that Bioware was seeking in their project. They hit the mark there and I have given them credit time over for this. These pro's however just don't out shine the issues I'm having. Here's another one.. 'Exhaustain Zones'.. I mean *** is this ****.. what is going on!?!?!? Why am I dieing!?!!? Run back.. HURRY FOOL!!!.. GTFOTW Khem.. I don't give a **** about your old master ***** move.. /rant Ehm.. Sorry I burned out on PvP a long time ago, after UO, AC Darktide, and DAoC. Now I want my story quests, so you are right that this game is aimed at players like me. As to exhaustion zones, we had those in other games. Please suggest a better solution to placing boundries on open water and the like. Do you prefer invisible walls? Edited February 9, 2012 by doctor_atomic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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