Unload doing less damage than rapid shots?

[demoncrat]

Hi,

 

I'm in 3/5 Rakata, the rest Columi including implants/earpiece. I'm specced for tanking and not DPS.

 

With that said I do DPS on certain bosses when OTing or when I solo dallies. I noticed that Unload does pitiful damage. I always assumed it's because Powertechs have one weapon so don't profit from the long channel.

 

However, I would expect rapid shots to do less damage but it is the exact opposite. I do almost twice as much damage in a rapid shots activation than I do waiting for Unload to finish. Has anyone else noticed this?

[Gizzle]

This is something I have noticed too; it uses heat, it can be broken easy(Flamethrower can't?) Isn't mobile AT ALL and has a longish cooldown.

 

You can spam RS on the run, it does decent damage, works as a heatdump(in the way of being an attack but not costing heat)

 

Mine shows a top-end damage of 800ish(IIRC) and it normally crits and does more than that..anyone else have any input?

[demoncrat]

I have a theory.

 

Rapid Shots works off your "weapon damage."

 

Unload also claims to work off your "weapon damage."

 

I think Unload is bugged and does not take your aim into account when calculating weapon damage. This is why we see such low numbers with it.

 

This will never be fixed as Bioware is too busy with "telemetry" to read our discussion on the forums

[AetherMcLoud]

Unload is mainly a Mercenary skill. They get lots of talents to increase it's damage.

[Assaultrooper]

what the poster above me said... unload is balanced around mercs, as a PT u should not be using unload.

[neeman]

Unload is not a PT skill. Don't use it.

[Xandermpls]

Hi,

 

I'm in 3/5 Rakata, the rest Columi including implants/earpiece. I'm specced for tanking and not DPS.

 

With that said I do DPS on certain bosses when OTing or when I solo dallies. I noticed that Unload does pitiful damage. I always assumed it's because Powertechs have one weapon so don't profit from the long channel.

 

However, I would expect rapid shots to do less damage but it is the exact opposite. I do almost twice as much damage in a rapid shots activation than I do waiting for Unload to finish. Has anyone else noticed this?

 

Unload is one of the highest damage modifiers in the game for Bounty Hunter. (Check TORhead) I do not understand why people keep seeing these. Because of the long cast time for Unload it will actually at times help you with heat management. (watch your heat bar) Use ALL of your skills. If you went up a bounty hunter specced the same as you in a duel, who do you think would win the one who had all of his skills at his disposal or the one with only a few? Answer is it is situation based.

 

If you are having trouble with your heat stop for a moment rapid shot then use unload. (try it:)

Edited February 9, 2012 by Xandermpls

[myndenx]

Pyros get 9% additional unload damage to burning targets, and the cost of unload is practically zero, since after you start firing the heat it costs go down to zero again. I don´t think unload is useless, it is a skill like flamethrower which is situational. Edited February 9, 2012 by myndenx

[neeman]

Unload is one of the highest damage modifiers in the game for Bounty Hunter. (Check TORhead) I do not understand why people keep seeing these. Because of the long cast time for Unload it will actually at times help you with heat management. (watch your heat bar) Use ALL of your skills. If you went up a bounty hunter specced the same as you in a duel, who do you think would win the one who had all of his skills at his disposal or the one with only a few? Answer is it is situation based.

 

If you are having trouble with your heat stop for a moment rapid shot then use unload. (try it:)

 

The BH that was not wasting his time casting Unload would win. Using Unload as heat management is silly; you can and should mange your heat otherwise. Your other attacks (e.g., Flame Burst, Rail Shot, Rocket Punch) ought to be buffed by your skills, whereas Unload gets only a bonus to burning targets in the shared Pyro tree. You should take a hard look at how the PT trees work, and understand then how weapons damage is terrible as compared to elemental damage (this will take more than a peek at numbers on Torhead), before suggesting that PTs use what is obviously designed as a Merc skill. If this is not sufficiently clear to you by examining the trees, understand also that we are not a ranged class. Yes, you can open at 30m, but you should be doing so only with instants (IM, TD, ED, Rail Shot) that allow you to set up DoTs or burst DPS while closing the gap. We have no reason to otherwise be beyond 10m of our opponent; and if we're within 10m, we have no need to root ourselves to do mediocre damage from an ability that shares no synergy with the rest of our talents and, as we don't have a Merc's protection against pushback, can be easily interrupted. Sorry, but you're really giving bad advice with the air of knowing what you're talking about.

 

Pyros get 9% additional unload damage to burning targets, and the cost of unload is practically zero, since after you start firing the heat it costs go down to zero again. I don´t think unload is useless, it is a skill like flamethrower which is situational.

 

The primary difference being that Flamethrower is a buffed attack that does elemental AoE-cone damage. PTs that are using Unload for anything other than aesthetic reasons, I am very comfortable in saying that you are not playing this class to its full potential.

Edited February 9, 2012 by neeman

[Eroex]

Um unload is a solid ability for the powertech when you cant be in melee range.

 

Mine does tons more damage than rapid shots as pyro. You guys dont know what you are talking about. Its a situational ability don't freak out about it.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Eroex

[DaveMash]

I've seen another problem (as Pyro Build Merc - only vs. normal mobs - didn't look at it in other situations):

 

Railshot on burning targets seems to do less damage than Rapid shots.

 

I see it every day when I'm questing on Ilum:

 

Incendiary missile + Railshot takes like 30% down. After this, I'm firing rapid shots and either the target is dead or has only 10% HP left.

Surely, it depends on how often I crit. But I think it is very strange, since Railshot ignores 30% of the targets' armor if the target burns...

[neeman]

Um unload is a solid ability for the powertech when you cant be in melee range.

 

Mine does tons more damage than rapid shots as pyro. You guys dont know what you are talking about. Its a situational ability don't freak out about it.

 

When can't you be in melee range? And when you're not in melee range, why are you not trying to get into melee range, or switching to a target that can be reached in melee range? No one is freaking out, but it is far from a solid ability.

[Eroex]

When can't you be in melee range? And when you're not in melee range, why are you not trying to get into melee range, or switching to a target that can be reached in melee range? No one is freaking out, but it is far from a solid ability.

 

Running all the way to a mind trap to DPS it you can toss out your ranged attacks and get back on the boss it will be dead before you get there any way, on gharj when he frenzies you can run out and still get some damage in before having to leave while other things are on cooldown. If you are running a melee heavy group and need to have a melee run up to the top on G4-B3 Heavy Fabricator killing the mines in the way is better than just rushing through them sometimes.

 

Finishing off a mob/player at ranged in any situation. Shocker some times railshot and grapple are on cooldown.

 

In hutt ball being on a platform above and you dont want to jump down to get to some one on the ground.

 

I can think of dozens of situations where you would use unload.

 

Its a situational ability. Like I said. Lots of fights I don't use it, some times I use it once a fight, some times i use it 5-6 times a fight it just depends on the situation.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Eroex

[Varicite]

When can't you be in melee range? And when you're not in melee range, why are you not trying to get into melee range, or switching to a target that can be reached in melee range? No one is freaking out, but it is far from a solid ability.

 

Because you're low on health and need to take out a few targets from range? Because you want to push back a cast long enough for your melee friend to get on the enemy sage? Because it's heat cost is extremely low if you can channel the whole thing? Because you want to kill someone quickly and other ranged abilities are on cd?

 

Not to mention it has a very decent chance of proc'ing CGC at a lower heat cost than IM, allowing you to rail shot and close distance w/ 0 heat built up

 

PTs can operate at 4, 10, and 30m. Obviously we are most effective at 4-10m, but if you are simply neglecting all of your 30m abilities and acting like a full-on melee class when we can deal respectable damage from range, then I'd say you are not playing your class to its full potential. Unload is one of our few damaging abilities from 30m; it's situational, but far from useless.

[Dharagada]

Have to agree Unload is very useful to powertechs in certain conditions.

 

It's not a go to ability but it would be silly for us to take it off their bars and if there is something wrong with the damage modifier it should be looked at.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Dharagada

[maschovy]

When can't you be in melee range? And when you're not in melee range, why are you not trying to get into melee range, or switching to a target that can be reached in melee range? No one is freaking out, but it is far from a solid ability.

 

I guess everyone forgot about the fact that it stuns normal mobs for the duration of the cast. I use it all the time when I'm grouped with just one other person. Lets say it's a 4 pack. 1 gold or silver and 3 normals and either DFA is on cooldown or they're too spread out to use it. I RC the gold, throw an ED at one normal. Color him CC'd and dead. Target another normal, use unload on him. Color him CC'd and dead. Grapple the third normal in and flamethrower him and the gold. Color that 3rd normal dead. Normall the gold is still glued to me. If not, that's why god invented taunt. Note, that so far, I haven't thrown a single rocket punch or rail shot, and yet somehow, I've CC'd and killed three mobs and likely still have the gold on me. Like the other dude said. Unload is situational. It's an excellent skill that shouldn't be ignored. Also, mine seems to do far more damage than Rapid Shot, although admittedly, I haven't looked very closely. Oh, and I almost forgot, you can almost always count on it to proc your cylinder. That's even more damage and allows you to use Rail Shot on that ranged that isn't quite dead yet.

[neeman]

Running all the way to a mind trap to DPS it you can toss out your ranged attacks and get back on the boss it will be dead before you get there any way, on gharj when he frenzies you can run out and still get some damage in before having to leave while other things are on cooldown. If you are running a melee heavy group and need to have a melee run up to the top on G4-B3 Heavy Fabricator killing the mines in the way is better than just rushing through them sometimes.

 

I'm speaking PvP but for PvE I'd suppose that no group should appreciate you casting Unload. It's the equivalent to a Sage working in Project for DPS, really.

 

Finishing off a mob/player at ranged in any situation. Shocker some times railshot and grapple are on cooldown.

 

In hutt ball being on a platform above and you dont want to jump down to get to some one on the ground.

 

I can think of dozens of situations where you would use unload.

 

Its a situational ability. Like I said. Lots of fights I don't use it, some times I use it once a fight, some times i use it 5-6 times a fight it just depends on the situation.

 

These claims of Unload being a "situational" ability at least betray that it should not be used for DPS, which is more or less the point I wanted to make. There is of course a larger issue here as to how you're playing your class: Pyro PTs are very ill-suited to be clutch ball carriers in Huttball, as we're incredibly susceptible to snares of all forms and have poor mobility otherwise, and so I would probably avoid putting myself in that "situation" of standing around but instead play the close support we excel at. Of course, if you're in the right spot at the right time, whatever, but it's not something you want to try to do.

 

I'd invite you to list your dozens, but I'm sure they'd all be variations of: I was in a spot where it was useful (1) for a WZ objective to lay down an attack on someone to disrupt them or (2) to attack an enemy in Huttball that I otherwise could not close the gap on. I much prefer in the first situation, as opposed to having to disrupt my target once again after doing a few seconds of mediocre channeled weapons damage to him, to simply close the gap and go kill him. If I need to disrupt him at 30m, then I have plenty of other tools available that allow me to do this without getting rooted. Killing people within 10m is what we excel at and doing otherwise will amount to a lower DPS. For the second situation, I might question whether I'm the type of class that ought to position myself to be far from anyone I want to kill.

 

Because you're low on health and need to take out a few targets from range? Because you want to push back a cast long enough for your melee friend to get on the enemy sage? Because it's heat cost is extremely low if you can channel the whole thing? Because you want to kill someone quickly and other ranged abilities are on cd?

 

Not to mention it has a very decent chance of proc'ing CGC at a lower heat cost than IM, allowing you to rail shot and close distance w/ 0 heat built up

 

PTs can operate at 4, 10, and 30m. Obviously we are most effective at 4-10m, but if you are simply neglecting all of your 30m abilities and acting like a full-on melee class when we can deal respectable damage from range, then I'd say you are not playing your class to its full potential. Unload is one of our few damaging abilities from 30m; it's situational, but far from useless.

 

(1) Unload cannot "take out a few targets from range." It's not an AoE and it's not effective as DPS. (2) If you want to push back a cast on an enemy sage, use IM, ED, your auto attack, or even Missile Blast so that you can move and go kill that sage after you disrupt his cast. (3) The trees are made for heat to be manageable without relying on Unload. If you're having trouble managing heat, consider casting Unload as a very rough patch as opposed to a true solution. (4) If you want to kill someone quickly, close the gap on them.

 

IM is an elemental damage DoT that allows you to use Rail Shot (that itself reduces heat). The abilities are incomparable.

 

No one is neglecting "all" of their 30m abilities. I am arguing against the one that roots me, does weapons damage, and keeps me from reaching my most effective range, as you say, most quickly. If you guys have room on your bars for Unload, then sure, keep it there for when you get into these "situations." I don't have room for it on mine and intuitively do not help create the situations where it might make sense to cast.

Edited February 9, 2012 by neeman

[neeman]

Note, that so far, I haven't thrown a single rocket punch or rail shot, and yet somehow, I've CC'd and killed three mobs and likely still have the gold on me. Like the other dude said. Unload is situational.

 

This seems to me purely cinematic. Why do you need to CC normals?

[Faydra]

This seems to me purely cinematic. Why do you need to CC normals?

 

If I'm running heriocs with my healer husband and there's a multi-mob pull - I'll grab as many as I can with DFA and grapple silvers/golds/casters to range. If there's one more mob that's out of my melee range, I'll burn it down from range to make sure it stays off my healer.

 

Or if I'm finishing off a pack of mobs and one's almost dead but too much health for RS and I don't want to burn my grapple/jump CDs and am feeling lazy.

 

Is it part of my regular rotation - no. However, it is a handy situational tool. It's like having a hex wrench in your tool box - don't always need it but so handy when you do.

[Eroex]

I'm speaking PvP but for PvE I'd suppose that no group should appreciate you casting Unload. It's the equivalent to a Sage working in Project for DPS, really.

 

 

 

These claims of Unload being a "situational" ability at least betray that it should not be used for DPS, which is more or less the point I wanted to make. There is of course a larger issue here as to how you're playing your class: Pyro PTs are very ill-suited to be clutch ball carriers in Huttball, as we're incredibly susceptible to snares of all forms and have poor mobility otherwise, and so I would probably avoid putting myself in that "situation" of standing around but instead play the close support we excel at. Of course, if you're in the right spot at the right time, whatever, but it's not something you want to try to do.

 

I'd invite you to list your dozens, but I'm sure they'd all be variations of: I was in a spot where it was useful (1) for a WZ objective to lay down an attack on someone to disrupt them or (2) to attack an enemy in Huttball that I otherwise could not close the gap on. I much prefer in the first situation, as opposed to having to disrupt my target once again after doing a few seconds of mediocre channeled weapons damage to him, to simply close the gap and go kill him. If I need to disrupt him at 30m, then I have plenty of other tools available that allow me to do this without getting rooted. Killing people within 10m is what we excel at and doing otherwise will amount to a lower DPS. For the second situation, I might question whether I'm the type of class that ought to position myself to be far from anyone I want to kill.

 

 

 

(1) Unload cannot "take out a few targets from range." It's not an AoE and it's not effective as DPS. (2) If you want to push back a cast on an enemy sage, use IM, ED, your auto attack, or even Missile Blast so that you can move and go kill that sage after you disrupt his cast. (3) The trees are made for heat to be manageable without relying on Unload. If you're having trouble managing heat, consider casting Unload as a very rough patch as opposed to a true solution. (4) If you want to kill someone quickly, close the gap on them.

 

IM is an elemental damage DoT that allows you to use Rail Shot (that itself reduces heat). The abilities are incomparable.

 

No one is neglecting "all" of their 30m abilities. I am arguing against the one that roots me, does weapons damage, and keeps me from reaching my most effective range, as you say, most quickly. If you guys have room on your bars for Unload, then sure, keep it there for when you get into these "situations." I don't have room for it on mine and intuitively do not help create the situations where it might make sense to cast.

 

Ether you are clueless or you are a troll, im going to assume troll because no one can be that air headed.

[neeman]

Ether you are clueless or you are a troll, im going to assume troll because no one can be that air headed.

 

I am far from a troll but accusing me of being one is, I suppose, one way to unload an argument. Cheers.

 

EDIT: If I were a troll, I would, instead of elaborating my suggestion to other PTs to not use Unload (given only so that they can play IMO better), not bother to give further reasons and call anyone who disagreed air-headed.

Edited February 9, 2012 by neeman

[neeman]

If I'm running heriocs with my healer husband and there's a multi-mob pull - I'll grab as many as I can with DFA and grapple silvers/golds/casters to range. If there's one more mob that's out of my melee range, I'll burn it down from range to make sure it stays off my healer.

 

Or if I'm finishing off a pack of mobs and one's almost dead but too much health for RS and I don't want to burn my grapple/jump CDs and am feeling lazy.

 

Is it part of my regular rotation - no. However, it is a handy situational tool. It's like having a hex wrench in your tool box - don't always need it but so handy when you do.

 

I suppose what I meant is that in similar situations it never occurs to me use Unload, so I'm suspect to believe that it's not necessary. I would just keep taunt on that extra mob, kill whatever is keeping me from getting to that mob, and then go kill that mob.

 

Sure, for feeling lazy anything goes, and we all fuzz up ideal play when we're in situations that don't need actual performance. I don't mean to question that at all. Personally when I'm lazy I taunt the mob and go into a quick LoS -- saves me the walk.

[Varicite]

(1) Unload cannot "take out a few targets from range." It's not an AoE and it's not effective as DPS. (2) If you want to push back a cast on an enemy sage, use IM, ED, your auto attack, or even Missile Blast so that you can move and go kill that sage after you disrupt his cast. (3) The trees are made for heat to be manageable without relying on Unload. If you're having trouble managing heat, consider casting Unload as a very rough patch as opposed to a true solution. (4) If you want to kill someone quickly, close the gap on them.

 

IM is an elemental damage DoT that allows you to use Rail Shot (that itself reduces heat). The abilities are incomparable.

 

No one is neglecting "all" of their 30m abilities. I am arguing against the one that roots me, does weapons damage, and keeps me from reaching my most effective range, as you say, most quickly. If you guys have room on your bars for Unload, then sure, keep it there for when you get into these "situations." I don't have room for it on mine and intuitively do not help create the situations where it might make sense to cast.

 

1) Unload isn't taking out a few on its own, but it will certainly help to nail an extra guy running away w/out adding 25 heat like Missile Blast.

 

2) IM doesn't do much to push back anything, and ED as .. pushback? What game are you playing that this works? Rapid Shots pushes back at a MUCH slower rate than Unload, and if you had read the example, you have teammates who are also doing things. You don't need to expose yourself to do what someone else is already doing, that's a waste of time and effort closing to melee range when you don't have to.

 

3) If you are not having heat issues as Pyro after extended PvP, then you're doing well. After putting IM on cappers, or taking down a good healer, or just after having gone through 3-4 people in the melee blender, my heat is usually pretty topped out. ESPECIALLY after spamming IM on cappers when our defense is low. I am hybrid spec'd, so I don't have access to the lower cd on vent heat, and Rail Shot vents are nice, but 8 heat every few seconds compared to the buildup doesn't always cut it.

 

4) I play my class as a melee/ranged hybrid, so if I can kill someone w/out the possibility of being damaged, I'm going to do that. If they warrant closing, then I'll close the gap and kill them that way. I like having the option to do either, but putting myself in harm's way isn't always the best solution when I can easily accomplish the same task at range, and Unload helps me to do that when necessary. Don't get me wrong, I prefer to be up close to burst and do my job, but I will always press my advantages, and having decent ranged damage is one of our class' advantages.

 

Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.

[neeman]

2) IM doesn't do much to push back anything, and ED as .. pushback? What game are you playing that this works? Rapid Shots pushes back at a MUCH slower rate than Unload, and if you had read the example, you have teammates who are also doing things. You don't need to expose yourself to do what someone else is already doing, that's a waste of time and effort closing to melee range when you don't have to.

 

I was for some reason thinking of node capturing as opposed to casting, in which case I quite like ED, as it allows the target to waste a few more seconds trying to cap and gives you the opportunity for burst damage once you've neared him. For ranged pushback you may be right, but it's important to note that priority in this case is usually to grapple or stun the target. I might prefer Missile Blast if only because it doesn't root you. Fair point on the team dynamic, but I suppose my intuition is that I contribute to the dynamic most effectively by closing in on melee range and helping free-up my teammate(s).

 

3) If you are not having heat issues as Pyro after extended PvP, then you're doing well. After putting IM on cappers, or taking down a good healer, or just after having gone through 3-4 people in the melee blender, my heat is usually pretty topped out. ESPECIALLY after spamming IM on cappers when our defense is low. I am hybrid spec'd, so I don't have access to the lower cd on vent heat, and Rail Shot vents are nice, but 8 heat every few seconds compared to the buildup doesn't always cut it.

 

Yea, you can't really spam IM like a Sorc could Affliction -- I manage heat in this situation by not doing it. I'll sooner use all my stuns or LoS with my auto-attack on the capturer than spam IM. Sure, if it seems like one player is focused on capturing while the rest are trying to defend him, I'll IM him and hope that they have poor communication.

 

4) I play my class as a melee/ranged hybrid, so if I can kill someone w/out the possibility of being damaged, I'm going to do that. If they warrant closing, then I'll close the gap and kill them that way. I like having the option to do either, but putting myself in harm's way isn't always the best solution when I can easily accomplish the same task at range, and Unload helps me to do that when necessary. Don't get me wrong, I prefer to be up close to burst and do my job, but I will always press my advantages, and having decent ranged damage is one of our class' advantages.

 

Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.

 

By all means, play as you please and as the situation calls for. I mean only to inform that numberwise your DPS is lower if you spend significant time outside of the 10m range.

Edited February 9, 2012 by neeman

[Varicite]

By all means, play as you please and as the situation calls for. I mean only to inform that numberwise your DPS is lower if you spend significant time outside of the 10m range.

 

Oh, agreed wholeheartedly. I don't use Unload for the dps, that's for sure. In a warzone, I feel there are just way more important things to do than maximize my dps at all times.

 

That's probably why I play a AP/Pyro hybrid for the utility in the AP tree, over going full Pyro or Parakeet.