It's not even healthy anymore

[boobaffet]

If you learn how resolve works its a pretty fine mechanic

[Posixgod]

I seriously can't stand the CC's in this game. I've been observing this for a while now. People are just abusing CC's in PVP. I can't even play an aggressive play style without feeling like a tree half of the time. Literally run and stop and run and stop... Where's the fun ?You have any idea how this defies many laws of psychology?

 

The "ID", google it.

 

Diminishing returns on stuns / CC would fix all of this.

[Vincedaddy]

You're right, I'll just stand in 1 spot when someone attacks me. Use your logic. Sometimes people say stuff on this forum that makes me want to say more than I'm allowed too. But Ill refrain.

 

 

it's like in call of duty when people rage against people who "drop shot" , the simple reply to that is " What am I suppose to do ? stand in one spot and let you kill me ? "... Pvp is more than just using skills, you need to learn how to move.

 

 

So before you judge someone for " back peddling", learn the benefits of it rather putting someone down for using this strategy. Clicker? my first video I clicked a lot and the second and third video I barely clicked.

 

 

Listen , if you want to bring me down, you can try but at least talk with a little bit of sense otherwise I'll have no choice but do correct you every time.

 

I stated my opinion on CC's and you've made it more personal. First you were on topic and now you judge the way I play.

 

And I wonder, where does a girl learn to speak like this. <--- thats a personal statement which is steeping low on the internet.

 

Start keybinding, use your mouse to move(i.e. don't turn using the keyboard), don't backpedal, and if you can get out of combat like you did just reset and stealth so you can get a better opener. Too tired to go into too much detail but that should be a nice start if you can work on that.

[DarthBloodloss]

They should give you immunity to CC for as long as you were CC'd

 

or even double as long as you were CC'd if they wanna copy SWG which I doubt they want to do even tho I lvoed that game

[Deathrupter]

Start keybinding, use your mouse to move(i.e. don't turn using the keyboard), don't backpedal, and if you can get out of combat like you did just reset and stealth so you can get a better opener. Too tired to go into too much detail but that should be a nice start if you can work on that.

 

 

 

What I forgot to tell people is that I just came from Aion, and

 

back peddling was encouraged in that game because depending how you moved, you were

 

given either more power or less power... So if you were strafing left and right, you were

 

given more accuracy, if you were attacking forward, you were doing more damage, but if you

 

were attacking while back peddling, you were given more defense. I got really used to it and

 

breaking the habit isn't always easy. But aion's concept was good, I just thought of it and how

 

it worked very well.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Deathrupter

[highstandard]

So you get chain stunned by 4 people often? maybe stop going up against 4 people...I barely ever get cc'd in pvp, and im a tank/dps hybrid shadow, one of the most dangerous classes in the game. Timing cc break and immunity are key, but not difficult in the slightest. Maybe playing wow for like 3 years helped, but its still not hard to pick up.

[Saltydogg]

CC is such a wonderful topic. People get so mad about it, and for good reason.

 

As soon as you lose the ability to do anything in a game, it stops being a game. You are now watching a movie, where you are the star, and it doesn't end well.

 

This goes back to a basic design principal called COUNTER PLAY. Games that create situations in which there is no counter play are not fun.

 

Soft CC, like snares, roots, pulls, pushes, and silences are fine, because you still have options for how to counter play.

 

Hard CC such as stuns do not offer counter play, barring the use of your 1 or 2 CC breakers that are on far longer cooldowns than the CC's of the multiple enemies you are facing.

 

So far game's have instituted numerous ways to include hard CC in PvP, with the goal of not entirely frustrating the players. Some of these are more successful than others at achieving that goal.

 

1. Diminishing Returns - This method still leaves the period in which there is no counter play, and no two people will ever agree on what "feels" acceptable when it comes to Diminishing Returns. SWToR has the resolve system which is really just a fancy modified Diminishing Returns system and thus there is plenty of room to argue whether it is good enough. Hint to the devs, if there is argument then this is not an adequate solution.

 

2. Incapacitates - Otherwise knows as CC that breaks upon taking damage. In PvP this is another poor concept because coordinated teams will be able to abuse this.

 

3. Channeled CC - This is reasonable, because in order to maintain CC on an opponent the player is effectively CC themselves. This results in a strategic use case that pauses play on both sides. These should never deal damage however, because that would disrupt the net gain/loss for the parties involved.

 

4. CC that grants damage immunity - This is another solid mechanic. The player that is not able to do anything is also immune to incoming damage, so while they are temporarily removed from the combat, they do not need to fear denial of play. You remove the "burst from 100% to dead" scenario, which greatly lessens the rage generated by having no immediate counter play.

 

A lot of work could be done to improve the fun factor of the game's PvP. Hopefully it comes with time. For now however, things are not imbalanced in regards to CC.

 

The largest imbalance in this game comes from being matched against people of different gear levels, but that is a whole different game design discussion.

 

All This and then some. People play a game to have fun. This in its current system is not fun. What you listed here is something that the one and only MMO still existing does when it comes to cc abilities. WoW although mostly pve now did have a good system for pvp cc abilities. Even warhammer at the end figured it out. However seeing that the same dev's who worked on hammer also work on TOR we wont see anything you listed here in the near future.

 

Anyone who thinks the cc system is fine as is are the first ones who abuse it

[Saltydogg]

OMG I GET CC'd TOO LONG!... Well get a cleanse. These things can be removed from you just like in WOW and WAR and almost every other mmo. But ill give you a heads up. The max CC duration is way shorter then this then in WoW. Wow can go from 8->4->2->1 sec cc with the same move 4 times. That would be 15 seconds long before you go immune. And that would just be on a single CC type, you could get the same chain in another type and not be immune to that. In Swtor if someone hits you with a 4 second or greater cc you are immune afterwards. Just like wow as well, slows dont count against DR/resolve.

 

So whats the solution? Play with people who aren't stupid and are going to cleanse you, stick together as a team. The wz right now aren't rated, they are pug fests. Take them for what they are, this isn't a competitive form of pvp yet. When the rated's come and and there's an issue when its actually a competent team vs another competent team then we can talk about when and where cc is overpowered.

 

How do you figure? Also who is going to cleanse? Most of the cc abilities cannot be cleansed because you need a dedicated healer to do it. In wow you have trinkets, clenses that dont require you to stack in on tree, the returns are much faster than what you stated. CC breaks on any type of damage. This system is fail and you know it. You just want your premade cc train to overpower anyone you face.

 

This game, in a pvp aspect, will not survive another two months when it comes to the casual player. YOu will lose a vast majority of your subs due to the flawed current system. I know because I have seen it in every MMO I have beta tested and played.

[Maxxacre]

They need to add CC immunity for 3 seconds after using your CC break ability.

[DarthOvertone]

I can't even play an aggressive play style without feeling like a tree half of the time.

 

Playing a melee toon in this game can be rough, especially if you monitor your Resolve bar and watch it fail you time and time again. Grey bar CC simply is not fun.

 

I don't think anyone disputes that CC has a place in PvP. However, we need more ways to counter it. I think a shorter cd on our CC breaker would do the trick...say reduce it to 20-25s.

 

And fix Resolve so that it works the way it is supposed to.

 

 

The unfortunate fact is PVP and PVE can't be balanced simultaniously. CC is very important for PVE even in solo play due to multiple enemy groups.

 

Actually, this isn't true. PvP and PvE have different sets of gear. BW could easily add an enhancement to our PvP gear that reduces the cooldown on our CC breaker or some such thing. An easy fix that wouldn't impact PvE in the slightest.

Edited February 9, 2012 by DarthOvertone

[Kendry]

I don't get this thread. In a Warzone, all things being equal, your team should be able to CC the other team exactly the same amount as they can CC you. Also, you can break CCs or your teammates can do it for you (if they are so inclined). Also, if the enemy team is CC'ing you every 10 seconds, and you're not dying, then somebody is doing something very wrong.

 

I think the problem is more like, everyone is just throwing CC at you and sometimes it just meshes together and you'll find yourself stunlocked for 7 seconds. When I find myself CC'ed, I find its pretty random and at the oddest times. Its more like 8 random individuals doing their own thing, and sometimes their actions will sync enough to ruin your day. Also depends on spec whether some sage/sorc wants to abuse that 2 sec stun that comes from Lift/Whirlwind breaking. Don't think these 'proc' stuns are affected by resolve but dont really care enough to test.

 

And then there are people out there that do care, will research resolve and put together a team and a sequence for CC to keep the other side helpless. Which one is BW's design, who knows, first could be called being really bad, and the 2nd could be considered exploiting the resolve system.

 

What I am trying to get at is that BW has not actually come out and said whether or not the state of pvp is fine as it is, and this is what they intended pvp CC to be done.

 

Sorry if paragraphs are a little weird. First time typing from a phone.

[Fdzzaigl]

The problem is: resolve isn't (really) useful for you unless you have your CC break.

 

Even if you use your CC break correctly and wait out until your bar is full before using it, chances are you'll die and start the next fight with it on cooldown.

 

At which point you'll eat the full duration of those 4564533 electrocutes spammed on you, or the full duration of that intimidating roar / whirlwind cast on you while your resolve bar was already 99% full.

 

Instead of allowing stuns that hit you while your resolve bar is nearly full to run their full duration as you sit there with a white bar, the resolve meter should indicate the maximum amount of time you can be stunned, with it breaking the stun once they go "over time".

 

For example: you can be stunned for a maximum of 6 seconds. I use Cryo grenade on you (4 seconds), you sit out those 4 seconds then a Jedi Knight uses Awe on you (6 seconds) and you only have to sit out 2 more seconds before that mez ends.

Right now, you'd sit out the full duration of both stuns without your CC break.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Fdzzaigl

[KrustyDog]

How do you figure? Also who is going to cleanse? Most of the cc abilities cannot be cleansed because you need a dedicated healer to do it. In wow you have trinkets, clenses that dont require you to stack in on tree, the returns are much faster than what you stated. CC breaks on any type of damage. This system is fail and you know it. You just want your premade cc train to overpower anyone you face.

 

This game, in a pvp aspect, will not survive another two months when it comes to the casual player. YOu will lose a vast majority of your subs due to the flawed current system. I know because I have seen it in every MMO I have beta tested and played.

 

Lol like I'm paying them for another 2 monthes? Just cancelled. Was going to give them another month but it really bothers me that they will not comment to their PAYING subs about what their plans are. Enjoy-just reactivated my Eve account where I was perfectly happy before SWtoR.

 

Eve:

 

persistant gaming world-check

uber balance-check

full loot pvp-check

end game that takes years to finish-check

AWESOME pvp-check

tournaments-check

massive full player driven economy-check

40k players on at any given time-check

Massive sandbox to play in-check

Non linear gameplay-check

Classes-nope

FotM-nope.

[Fdzzaigl]

Eve:

 

persistant gaming world-check

uber balance-check

full loot pvp-check

end game that takes years to finish-check

AWESOME pvp-check

tournaments-check

massive full player driven economy-check

40k players on at any given time-check

Massive sandbox to play in-check

Non linear gameplay-check

Classes-nope

FotM-nope.

 

Insane grind? - check

 

Sorry, just had to.

[MoonsLightV]

I play a Jugg and dont have the same issues. In fact I am rarely CCed to the point that i feel it is out of control. I think the problem may be the way you approach PVP. I dont mean to be a jerk, but if you are just randomly attacking people you can force charge to and getting soloed you are doing it wrong. Hang back, find the enemy with the lowest HP bar that is actively getting attacked by at least one of your teamates, taunt the enemy and GUARD whoever that enemy is attacking and then jump in and help kill him. Nothing good can come of a solo Juggernaut chaarging in on a lone Trooper or Smuggler that is hanging back away from the action. You will get knocked back, snared, kicked in the nads, and DPsed down with none of your friends around to help and Im sure that is very frustrating.

 

I am definately NOT playing the class wrong. I usually get in the top 5 or 10 in kills and even damage being almost full specced immortal. I think this part of the problem, I am going to try to respec into vengeance/rage with a 28/13 build and see what happens. My whole point is that melee classes are at a disadvantage as usual in these games. I also think that only 1 or 2 classes TOPS should specialize in CC, ensnares, and stuns a form of support class. Having almost all classes with these abilities creates an imbalanced nightmare.

[Phyrexianist]

They need to add CC immunity for 3 seconds after using your CC break ability.

 

Like/Faved

[Rodregeus]

Lmao, I have no intentions of quitting this game, I love it.

 

I just entirely focus my character on PVP and these things become evident the more I PVP. It's flat out annoying.

 

I can't really think of a fix, but it sucks for melee classes... And what really pissed me off today was after being CC'd, I got tons of dps on me without the CC breaking. That's not normal at all.

 

CC's are usually all the same, yes, you can avoid me for 10 seconds, but you shouldn't be able to deal damage on me without me doing anything.

 

So tell me, if all CC breaks on damage. How are lightly armored, easily killed ranged classes supposed to have a chance against heavily armored melee classes? Kite you for 10mins while our few weak instant casts do minimal damage?

 

For you, getting CC'd isn't fun, for ranged, standing there getting punched in the face trying to cast through push back isn't fun.

 

If you're really getting CC'd every 4 seconds as you claim, then the entire enemy team is using their CC on you. Leaving the rest of your team free to beat up on them. Sucks for you, but doesn't mean it needs to be fixed. Maybe you should just not charge into a group of enemies by yourself when all their abilities are off CD?

 

One player, can not CC you every 4 seconds, not even us sorcs. Assuming I use every CC on you I have, it will go like this:

 

Whirlwind - CC's you for 8 seconds, breaks on ANY damage, even dots. (60sec cooldown)

Electrocute - stuns for 4 seconds. (60sec cooldown)

Force slow - SLOWS you by 50% for 6 seconds. (12sec cooldown)

 

Assuming 31pts into madness I could also use

Creeping terror - Immobilizes for 2sec, (9sec cooldown)

 

We could also spec to have our static barrier blind you when it breaks, but you have to have been able to beat up on us to break it in the first place.

 

So with my build, at best, I can stun you once every 30sec, one of those isn't even a stun, and if I have crushing darkness, or affliction on you, which I would as their main abilities, then it will break immediately, meaning I can stun you for 4sec every min. OHH NO HOW HORRIBLE FOR YOU!

 

Your survivability is in armor, ours is in CC. Get over it. I don't cry when I stun one guy, then immediately get jumped by another. You don't see me starting a thread saying that i don't have enough CC to deal with 8 players at once.

 

TL;DR Stop whining that getting CC'd by the entire enemy is unfair.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Rodregeus

[KrustyDog]

Insane grind? - check

 

Sorry, just had to.

 

Aye. To have the biggest and best takes time but even a one week old pilot can fly a frigate and tackle and be just as important as a Cruiser dishing the hurt. Both are critical so the grind is tolerable because your still contributing and playing with the big boys. And it only takes a bout two weeks to train covert ops fighter and be a stealth pirate. Thats pretty fun too. Ganking the big mining barges in low sec space, pissing off the major corporations. Ah, good times. Nothing quite like every man for himself pvp.

[RoadSideAssist]

Eh.

 

This is WOWs biggest flaw. Melee just DESTROYS once they're in your face. The problem is, they have TOO many outs. Warrior: charge, intercept, bladestorm, charge, intercept, overthrow, blah blah blah. Rogue: Vanish, sprint, COS, CS/KS, deadly throw, blind, evasion, etc.

 

So what happens? Blizzard buffs the F out of healers so they can keep ranged up. Then everyone whines that healing is too op'd, so they nerf healing but then the ranged are bad again. So they buff ranged survivability but melee can still stay on them. So then either they nerf survive and give ranged CC or make ranged like a tank. Then ranged whine about the fact they can never get anything off, and melee whine that healing and ranged tanking/CC is out of control.

 

It's an endless battle. Either way, it all comes down to learning your class. I hate the l2p term, but it's the truth 90% of the time. I've seen shadow infils pull out 450K+ damage, seen sorcs do it, seen marauders towards the top, etc. Healing in this game meanwhile doesn't seem too out of control.

[Jargonaut]

It can't be. There are so many snares that everyone's resolve bar would be full nearly all the time. And since snares would then stop working most of the time, ranged would have no way to keep melee off which means most of the gap closers would also need to be removed...

 

In other words, you're talking about an entire game rewrite for something that isn't a problem. Melees who start at max range usually lose. Melees who start the fight closer than that usually win. The system works.

 

The part you appear to be missing is that while mele are spending their time chain stunned from 100% to 0, they are gnashing their teeth on the damn keyboard wanting to rip it out of the pc and smash something. It's TOO frustrating. I don't want the difficulty for me killing someone to change, I want to not feel like throwing my computer at the wall because of just how damn frustrating this game can currently be due to the ridiculous amount of time I have to spend unable to respond.

 

It's a very bad gameplay mechanic. It's not fun. We play games because they are enjoyable. Excessive CC is ruining that and making the game not fun to play. If you have to reduce damage or increase leap cd timers or what ever to balance it DO IT. Just don't leave this current stupid CC system as it is right now.

[Stirrups]

Yes please, let's homogenize all of our games because nuances of pvp are annoying. All we want to do is run around making numbers appear over people's heads and watching the numbers float up over ours. We don't need any CC. In fact, just make every class do the same amounts of pvp damage with relatively similar ability rotations. Don't worry, the voice acting will carry the game once the classes all bleed together.

Again, I want this game to be like all of the other games I have on consoles or pc. Just numbers and explosions if you don't mind. Uniqueness is too hard for me to comprehend.

While you're at it, if you could slim down the customization options to make skill points easier to spend, that'd be great. Oh, and make the leveling part of the game an autopilot experience until cap and then just load us down with varied faction or pvp dailies. Maybe after this I will be happier knowing that whatever game I decide to play, I can employ the same face-roll tactics. Yawn.

[RoyFokker]

Learn how resolve works.

 

It doesn't work, hence we have this issue.

[Wildcat]

Immunity timers need to be added for CC once it's cleared OR BEEN CLEARED. You shouldn't be able to immediately re-root people.

 

Either that or remove CC from the game. Granted, there needs to be SOME CC, but not this.

 

Being held in place unable to do anything is not fun.

 

Excessive roots and snares make the game less fun.

 

Less fun=Less customers which = less $$$ for EA.

[Wildcat]

It doesn't work, hence we have this issue.

 

Yeah, resolve is useless.

 

I pay no attention to the resolve bar. I do pay attention to my break CC ability, and it's 2 minute cooldown. Which breaks me free for all of two seconds before the next sorcerer or agent roots me.

[Joydrop]

Lol like I'm paying them for another 2 monthes? Just cancelled. Was going to give them another month but it really bothers me that they will not comment to their PAYING subs about what their plans are. Enjoy-just reactivated my Eve account where I was perfectly happy before SWtoR.

 

Eve:

 

persistant gaming world-check

uber balance-check

full loot pvp-check

end game that takes years to finish-check

AWESOME pvp-check

tournaments-check

massive full player driven economy-check

40k players on at any given time-check

Massive sandbox to play in-check

Non linear gameplay-check

Classes-nope

FotM-nope.

 

Years of development to get to the point it's at now - check

 

Games been out a month and a half and people cry doom. Shame everyone didn't jump off the (WoW/WAR/EVE/etc) bandwagon a month and a half after their releases so we wouldn't have to put up with the constant comparisons to games that have been out years.