Fixing the Scrapper Without Making it OP

[DunsparrowSolo]

Stealth Openers

Having the same ability deal heavy damage, knock down the target, place a DoT and give armor penetration is honestly too powerful. We can't be properly balanced as long as our single opener does all of that. So I propose we split into 3 openers and give a choice.

 

Shoot First [changed] - Slip out of stealth and to blast the target point-blank with the scattergun for heavy damage. Must be in stealth and behind the target. Grants Upper Hand.

 

Knockout [new] - Slip out of stealth and strike the enemy with the butt of your scattergun, knocking them down for 3 seconds (400 resolve). Must be in stealth and behind the target. Grants Upper Hand.

 

Gut Blast [new] - Slip out of stealth and blast the enemy's vital organs point-blank with the scattergun, causing them to bleed for heavy damage over 21 seconds. Must be in stealth and in front of the target. Grants Upper Hand.

 

 

In-Combat Abilities

Fixing our stealth openers will allow our non-stealth combat to be a bit more useful. The goals here are to increase sustained damage a bit via Flechette Round changes and give more options for PvP survival.

 

Quick Shot [changed] - Now grants Upper Hand and shares a cooldown with Blaster Whip.

 

Rolling Blast [new] - Exploits Upper Hand to roll toward the target and blast them point-blank with the scattergun for moderate kinetic damage. Requires and consumes Upper Hand. 5m-20m range. 45s cooldown.

 

Flechette Round [changed] - Your Back Blast now deals additional internal damage over 6 seconds and increase your armor penetration by 30% for 10 seconds. Note: This ability is now passive and no longer works on openers.

 

Defense Screen [changed] - Projects a defense field around yourself which absorbs incoming damage for 15 seconds. 30s cooldown. If Defense Screen is broken early by damage, immediately grants Upper Hand.

 

 

Summary

 

The goal of these changes is to reduce opener power and while giving more options to the Scoundrel both in and out of stealth. Defense Screen cooldown reduction adds survivability. Flechette Round changes improve sustained damage while reducing opener burst. Quick Shot/Rolling Blast allow for better anti-kite options.

Edited February 7, 2012 by DunsparrowSolo

[TheGank]

Biofail don't give a ***** dude...and that's even if they read the forums. I have posted lot's of times along with hundreds of others just like you here.

 

I started this game with 75 players from another game we are down to three in the guild lol...it tells a story...

 

All the best!

[vartius]

Great idea for making Flechette passive. Why wouldn't we always load the ammo? We lose a GCD loading it for a Backblast mid-fight, thus requiring a crit to make it worth 2 GCDs vs a major gain over 2 other damage abilities. Just making Flechette passive and Knockdown its own ability would help. I don't think the DoT out of stealth wouldn't have that much use, unless the damage it sustains over its time would be double+ of a standard shoot first. Edited February 7, 2012 by vartius

[blarse]

Great idea for making Flechette passive. Why wouldn't we always load the ammo? We lose a GCD loading it for a Backblast mid-fight, thus requiring a crit to make it worth 2 GCDs vs a major gain over 2 other damage abilities. Just making Flechette passive and Knockdown its own ability would help. I don't think the DoT out of stealth wouldn't have that much use, unless the damage it sustains over its time would be double+ of a standard shoot first.

 

Flechette does not respect the global cooldown...

[mousestalker]

I'm not too sure I want my character fixed. I'd like to keep the option of having smuggler children open, at least for the foreseeable future.

[DunsparrowSolo]

Great idea for making Flechette passive. Why wouldn't we always load the ammo? We lose a GCD loading it for a Backblast mid-fight, thus requiring a crit to make it worth 2 GCDs vs a major gain over 2 other damage abilities. Just making Flechette passive and Knockdown its own ability would help. I don't think the DoT out of stealth wouldn't have that much use, unless the damage it sustains over its time would be double+ of a standard shoot first.

 

It current is not on the GCD, but it does waste 13 energy a pop. This change would free up energy during combat but would reduce opener burst. Win-win, as they say.

[Binafus]

It is already the best build in the game unless ur talking about a second nerf?

[Raice]

It is already the best build in the game unless ur talking about a second nerf?

 

Ummm..... no... Moving on...

 

 

 

These changes sound awesome. It will never happen. I would love it if they did... but they simply won't.

 

And, as far as Flechette Round being passive... ehhh... for the class' sake I would agree... but ONLY if the Flechette Round Animation got moved over to something else. I mean come on - it's the most bad@ss animation in the game. Can't get rid of it. I'd almost pass on the Passive idea for that reason alone. Seriously - keep everything you just said... but make it not work on GCD. I love that shotgun flip too much

 

In all honesty... it's the only reason why I still have FR still in my build.

[nvmvoidrays]

It is already the best build in the game unless ur talking about a second nerf?

 

lolno.

[silvershadez]

I like your ideas. But if they split up our opener into 3 different openers (they even look similar to the WoW openers) i would love to get a stealthbar first.

 

Other then that those are great ideas.

[wiazabi]

Rolling Blast [new] - Exploits Upper Hand to roll toward the target and blast them point-blank with the scattergun for moderate kinetic damage. Requires and consumes Upper Hand. 5m-20m range. 45s cooldown.

 

That actually sounds pretty awesome, and we can never have to many scattergun skills.

[Kayserzose]

I would like a change to Quick Shot aswell, right now I'm not sure when I should use it. I like your suggestion but I would rather it to be a kind of "execute" style skill, as the Assasin/Shadow skill: Assasinate/Spinning Strike. It does high amount of damage and only usable when target is below 30% health. Edited February 8, 2012 by Kayserzose

[Mangetsu]

I'm not sure about splitting the opener into 3 different types. I'm happy with bursting my opponent and stunnging him at the same time.

 

As someone else said, making flechette round passive is an interesting idea but the animation is too cool to lose.

 

Also for rolling blast; we need a gap closer but I'd prefer something like Shadowstep.

[DunsparrowSolo]

And, as far as Flechette Round being passive... ehhh... for the class' sake I would agree... but ONLY if the Flechette Round Animation got moved over to something else. I mean come on - it's the most bad@ss animation in the game. Can't get rid of it. I'd almost pass on the Passive idea for that reason alone. Seriously - keep everything you just said... but make it not work on GCD. I love that shotgun flip too much

 

I agree the FR animation is awesome. IMO you would do it after every Back Blast (during GCD).

 

I like your ideas. But if they split up our opener into 3 different openers (they even look similar to the WoW openers) i would love to get a stealthbar first.

 

Other then that those are great ideas.

 

Yes, agreed. We need a stealth bar.

 

I would like a change to Quick Shot aswell, right now I'm not sure when I should use it. I like your suggestion but I would rather it to be a kind of "execute" style skill, as the Assasin/Shadow skill: Assasinate/Spinning Strike. It does high amount of damage and only usable when target is below 30% health.

 

Good point. We don't have an execute-style ability. But I'm not sure BW wants us to have one in their vision for the class. These changes are pretty much in keeping with BW's vision as it is now. Then again, Assassins/Shadows have finishers, so I don't think it would be too far-fetched.

 

Also for rolling blast; we need a gap closer but I'd prefer something like Shadowstep.

 

Since we already roll into cover, a roll was my idea for a gap closer. Shadowstep is nice, but doesn't have a Scoundrel feel to it.

Edited February 8, 2012 by DunsparrowSolo

[Azzkickrr]

stacking dot of some kind from something other than backblast... on certain fights when your unable to get behind the target... your dps goes out the window.

 

Maybe a Healing stance or a DPS stance like every other class? And good lord I hate pugnacity.

[Melonfarmer]

I agree the FR animation is awesome. IMO you would do it after every Back Blast (during GCD).

 

Perhaps FR could be like either the class-buff or an ammo cells of the Trooper/BH. That way, it's always on, but you can still click it if you want to watch the animation.

 

OP, your changes look pretty good, particularly the rolling blast. I think a buff on dodge (either longer duration or shorter cooldown) might be good as well.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Melonfarmer

[mr_ruiz]

The thread may be asking or too much, but I would rather ask for ten things and get one or two, than asking for a couple and getting none. The more choices the better. And I know your not seeking any individual approval, but A+ for you.

 

The work put into this thread is great. I would be one happy Scrapper if we got something like, Rolling Blast. And flame me all you will, but I think that with the one change of having a gap closer, it would improve the class big time and change up the game for us.

 

I know we do like to dream, but let's all be realistic and hope for one thing at a time.

 

Linnea la Loquita - Scrapper 'til I die

[DunsparrowSolo]

I'm not sure just a gap closer is the answer, but it would sure be a start.

[mr_ruiz]

I'm not sure just a gap closer is the answer, but it would sure be a start.

 

I completely agree. But think of all those time you have someone on the ropes, and you get rooted/knocked back. Then you either can't get to them fast enough or that enables them to hold you off until five lightsabers show up to rápe you.

 

How much of a difference would it make to close that gap, finish that guy and get back into stealth to do it all over. I know were not the "fight starter" type of class, but I sometimes like to jump on a ranged/healer and try to kill/interrupt if there is a pile of AE going on - without a gap closer, its usually a suicide mission.

 

I just enjoy the class so much and I gave into just sticking it out through this. I have alts but my Scoundrel will always be my main.

 

Linnea la Loquita - Scrapper 'til I Die

[vartius]

I would like a change to Quick Shot aswell, right now I'm not sure when I should use it. I like your suggestion but I would rather it to be a kind of "execute" style skill, as the Assasin/Shadow skill: Assasinate/Spinning Strike. It does high amount of damage and only usable when target is below 30% health.

 

Quick shot is a lvl 8 smuggler ability so has vanishing returns as we get AC stuff (e.g. Sucker Punch and Dirty fighting abilities). I have found the damage on par with Thermal Grenade so I just use it at the bottom of the rotation rather than quick shot to save a hotkey spot. Still use it times when AoE's are bad and I click it.

Edited February 9, 2012 by vartius

[Dulark]

I would also add 2 things

(operative here so bare with me)

Avoidance Training effects Sneak now aswell as Evasion(Dodge).(you dont have to blow 2 defensive cooldowns to pop a vanish)

Additionally while shield probe is active you cannot be knocked back or slowed.

Operatives/Scoundrels need either a Pull or a knockback, atm they are the ONLY class without either, so basically any operative/scoundrel in hutball is a liability.

either

 

Magnetic Lasso - Pulls target towards the Scoundrel, slowing them by 50% for 1 second. 30m range. (the 1 second is just so you can have a followup)

 

or

 

Point-blank Scattershot - The Scoundrel blasts the target from point-blank range with his scatter shot, knocking the target back 15m slowing them by 30% for 4 seconds.

[blarse]

Quick shot is a lvl 8 smuggler ability so has vanishing returns as we get AC stuff (e.g. Sucker Punch and Dirty fighting abilities). I have found the damage on par with Thermal Grenade so I just use it at the bottom of the rotation rather than quick shot to save a hotkey spot. Still use it times when AoE's are bad and I click it.

 

Quickshot does more damage (but can be dodged/deflected and shielded) and costs 3 less energy. Quickshot should be your filler when blaster whip/back black/sucker punch are all on cooldown (out of upper hand in the case of sucker punch)

[Waagabond]

I dont like the OPs suggestions as they all are from WoWs rogue.

 

We are fine with shoot first, the dot comes from flechette round and we can just add a vital shot if we want.

 

The class is already complicated.

 

Whats needed is to change sustained damage, thats all.

 

ARP increased to 50% again, this one is required for sure.

 

And increase damage on sucker punch, by adding it to underdog tree, reducing cooldown on flying fists by 7 seconds to 3 seconds, and making flyifists have 100% chance to proc instead of 50% for 4 talent points, since it adds just a few hundred extra damage.

Flying fists is this games worst talent by miles and miles, for 4 talent points with 100% chance AND 0 seconds cooldown, it would be ok....I would rather have a talent that increase damage on sucker punch for 10% for 2 talent points then flying fists.

 

But, make flying fists part of sucker punchs underdog talent and it will be more useful.

 

Thats all this class needs to increase sustained damage.

 

50% arp on Flechette round, Flying fists procs, and adding sucker punch/flying fist to underdog. - All problems with sustained damage solved.

[Waagabond]

I would also add 2 things

(operative here so bare with me)

Avoidance Training effects Sneak now aswell as Evasion(Dodge).(you dont have to blow 2 defensive cooldowns to pop a vanish)

Additionally while shield probe is active you cannot be knocked back or slowed.

Operatives/Scoundrels need either a Pull or a knockback, atm they are the ONLY class without either, so basically any operative/scoundrel in hutball is a liability.

either

 

Magnetic Lasso - Pulls target towards the Scoundrel, slowing them by 50% for 1 second. 30m range. (the 1 second is just so you can have a followup)

 

or

 

Point-blank Scattershot - The Scoundrel blasts the target from point-blank range with his scatter shot, knocking the target back 15m slowing them by 30% for 4 seconds.

 

Altough I agree with you, I have had several K.Os, knockbacks from our stealth openers on people in the fire. Takes timing though

 

We should have a 10m ranged knockdown, like the shotgun fires a dumdum bullet that simply WILL knockdown a target.

For operatives, I guess you toss a gas grenade or someting that knocks them off their toes for a short moment.

 

I dont think we should have any real gap closers or knockbacks.

 

We are already close to impossible to kill 1vs1 if we want to escape a bad situation. kick, Flash bang, "Vanish"...And with dirty kick talent and 30% movement speed (must have for pvp)..

 

In regards to the range knockdown, we more or less do have it with a talented tendom blast, that freeze them in place for 2 seconds.

 

I personally think that if our class also had a good gap closer it would be overpowered.

UNLESS, the gap closer can only be used OUT of stealth. Then it would be ok.

But an in steealth gap closer would be op.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Waagabond

[DunsparrowSolo]

I dont like the OPs suggestions as they all are from WoWs rogue.

 

We are fine with shoot first, the dot comes from flechette round and we can just add a vital shot if we want.

 

The class is already complicated.

 

Whats needed is to change sustained damage, thats all.

 

ARP increased to 50% again, this one is required for sure.

 

And increase damage on sucker punch, by adding it to underdog tree, reducing cooldown on flying fists by 7 seconds to 3 seconds, and making flyifists have 100% chance to proc instead of 50% for 4 talent points, since it adds just a few hundred extra damage.

Flying fists is this games worst talent by miles and miles, for 4 talent points with 100% chance AND 0 seconds cooldown, it would be ok....I would rather have a talent that increase damage on sucker punch for 10% for 2 talent points then flying fists.

 

But, make flying fists part of sucker punchs underdog talent and it will be more useful.

 

Thats all this class needs to increase sustained damage.

 

50% arp on Flechette round, Flying fists procs, and adding sucker punch/flying fist to underdog. - All problems with sustained damage solved.

 

I don't think you read all my suggestions, since only the openers are from WoW, but I'll respond.

 

First, everything about this game is from WoW. The fleet is Ironforge, Sith Warriors are WoW Warriors, Sith Sorcerers are WoW Shamans, Scrappers are Rogues (as you mentioned), and the list goes on.

 

I'm sorry if you thought this game is not WoW, but it is.

 

Dirty Kick = Kidney Shot

Upper Hand = Combo Point

Shoot First = Ambush

Back Blast = Backstab

Blaster Whip = Sinister Strike

Disappearing Act = Vanish

Dodge = Cloak of Shadows

Tranquilizer = Sap

Stealth = Stealth

etc

 

However, that said, my suggestions mostly simplify the class and add versatility and utility that is not present in WoW Rogues (which is why we don't have it). The whole point is to make the class less like a rogue.

Edited February 13, 2012 by DunsparrowSolo