Dungeon Finder Needed Badly

[Touchbass]

Flock to the general forums my brothers, fly!

[MalignX]

Flock to the general forums my brothers, fly!

What did I miss?

[Nitewolfe]

What did I miss?

 

Oh just this from a podcast with SR!!!

 

Simon – Any plans for an LFG tool?

 

SR: Definitely being looked at including cross-server Flashpoint tool. Definitely wanting to do.

 

http://toroz.com.au/2012/02/stephen-reid-qa-summary-transcript/

 

Such sweet news! we win!!!

[Ethern]

To point 5, are you going to continue to argue and fight with these folks instead of actually working to create a system that resolves the issues they bring up while still getting an LFG tool that works?

1. Apart from the lack of accountability, I see no issues with WoW's version. There are easy fixes for that.

2. It does not have to be a carbon copy of WoW's LFG tool.

 

In short the whole argumentation wanting to deny a cross server LFG based on the speculation that it would be a copy of WoW's is ridiculous.

[grueber]

Oh just this from a podcast with SR!!!

 

Simon – Any plans for an LFG tool?

 

SR: Definitely being looked at including cross-server Flashpoint tool. Definitely wanting to do.

 

http://toroz.com.au/2012/02/stephen-reid-qa-summary-transcript/

 

Such sweet news! we win!!!

 

I've always suspected its the technical issue of putting a functional tool together rather than the community garbage.

 

Bioware isn't stupid. A tool that would facilate FP grouping would increase the usage of group content now and in the future.

[Orisai]

1. Apart from the lack of accountability, I see no issues with WoW's version. There are easy fixes for that.

2. It does not have to be a carbon copy of WoW's LFG tool.

 

In short the whole argumentation wanting to deny a cross server LFG based on the speculation that it would be a copy of WoW's is ridiculous.

 

What Bioware could do since day one, is to add two systems to prevent any lack of accountability and ninja looting:

 

1. Internal Player behavior points system, much like the one used on driver licenses in some countries and US states. This way reported or kicked players will have less to no chances to group up with the same people again, eventually preventing them from doing any group Flashpoint/Warzone content until their restrictions are lifted.

 

2. Proper gear looting restrictions based on item level, queued role, spec, stats, type of armor, selected companion (yellow in Crew Skills) in case no one needs the gear and a companion could use it.

 

I've always suspected its the technical issue of putting a functional tool together rather than the community garbage.

 

Bioware isn't stupid. A tool that would facilate FP grouping would increase the usage of group content now and in the future.

 

I'm pretty much sure Bioware has an internal statistics system which tells them how, when, and how many players do Flashpoints compared to Warzones. Based on this data, they wiped out the absurd idea of "LFG killing communities" out of their minds.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Orisai

[Illutian]

Actually, they had the plan to do a LFG Tool all along, just like RIFT had it all along.

 

It's a classic way to dupe the masses into thinking they're getting a "better product".

 

First you come up with the product and all these nice features.

 

Then you strip out features that are either:

 

a) taking to long to "work out"

b) may cause customer backlash

 

After you market your fancy new product you 'get a feel' for what the customer base wants

 

and presto!

 

You roll out this "New and Improved" Product X.

 

 

 

I, for one, think they should drop just about everything and get this in place...SWTOR is quickly becoming boring. Our own "LFG Channel" (The Fatman server) we decided to make isn't seeing much action. And by that I mean General and "LFG" is pretty much devoid of "LFG/LFM". And this is with about ~120 in Fleet, which is about average for 'Prime Time'.

 

The only real question is should the LFG Tool reward people for using it like WoW and RIFT do. There should be some kind of 'physical' (in-game) reward. WoW had a LFG Tool and rarely was it used; no incentive to. After it became rewarding you had pre-formed groups using it just to get the reward...some of those groups only had 3 guildmates/friend so 2 randoms got to go

 

//BTW

 

I find it laughable that people hate LFG Tools yet continue to "Queue Solo". What the hell do you think the WZ System runs on...A LFG TOOL

[Orisai]

 

I find it laughable that people hate LFG Tools yet continue to "Queue Solo". What the hell do you think the WZ System runs on...A LFG TOOL

 

This is something I don't understand... They have no problems with the automated and insta-teleport PvP grouping, yet they hate the LFD when it applies to PvE. They'll have to play the game and focus on their role in both aspects, instead of sheet chatting all the time about their personal lives like in General Chat.

 

I'll create a thread on how easy and instant gratifying the game is on PvP, and demand groups to be formed manually, spamming General in the Fleet so everyone in the Warzone can talk about their life in the school and job while being roflstomped by rival players.

[Ethern]

What Bioware could do since day one, is to add two systems to prevent any lack of accountability and ninja looting:

 

1. Internal Player behavior points system, much like the one used on driver licenses in some countries and US states. This way reported or kicked players will have less to no chances to group up with the same people again, eventually preventing them from doing any group Flashpoint/Warzone content until their restrictions are lifted.

 

2. Proper gear looting restrictions based on item level, queued role, spec, stats, type of armor, selected companion (yellow in Crew Skills) in case no one needs the gear and a companion could use it.

 

 

 

1. Indeed that can work. The legacy name is already cross server, they can use it or its code, for making account based blacklists. Technically it's possible I guess.

 

2. Totally agree. That's what I and others also suggested earlier in this thread and its previous iteration.

 

 

I'm pretty much sure Bioware has an internal statistics system which tells them how, when, and how many players do Flashpoints compared to Warzones. Based on this data, they wiped out the absurd idea of "LFG killing communities" out of their minds

It seems like it. They also wiped their "we have not implemented a cross server tool, so that people can explore (the fleet)" or something along those lines.

I'm sure their metrics told them that too many people were ragequit after have wasted countless hours on the fleet looking for group, and too many were unsuscribing because of that. (I guess I have 4 days remaining).

Anyway Reid hinted at the future implementation of a cross server LFG tool.

 

What I think is that Bioware did not think it would be needed that soon.

[Umbral]

This is something I don't understand... They have no problems with the automated and insta-teleport PvP grouping, yet they hate the LFD when it applies to PvE. They'll have to play the game and focus on their role in both aspects, instead of sheet chatting all the time about their personal lives like in General Chat.

 

I'll create a thread on how easy and instant gratifying the game is on PvP, and demand groups to be formed manually, spamming General in the Fleet so everyone in the Warzone can talk about their life in the school and job while being roflstomped by rival players.

The majority of the people that post on the forums vehemently against a cross-server LFG tool don't PvP, or very rarely PvP. In fact, they don't participate in Flashpoints or heroics that much either for that matter.

 

It's all about something else. These people bemoan mmos evolving in many more other areas too. They want a mmo from early in the last decade because they have rose coloured glasses syndrome from back then. They've built up this fantasy where games like SWG and EQ were way way more fun to play than they ever really were, and where the communities in those games were somehow better.

 

They most definitely were not. Playing those games was a horrid experience, both in terms of the lack of features, and the overbearing and caustic communities.

[Lerthan]

The majority of the people that post on the forums vehemently against a cross-server LFG tool don't PvP, or very rarely PvP. In fact, they don't participate in Flashpoints or heroics that much either for that matter.

 

It's all about something else. These people bemoan mmos evolving in many more other areas too. They want a mmo from early in the last decade because they have rose coloured glasses syndrome from back then. They've built up this fantasy where games like SWG and EQ were way way more fun to play than they ever really were, and where the communities in those games were somehow better.

 

They most definitely were not. Playing those games was a horrid experience, both in terms of the lack of features, and the overbearing and caustic communities.

For me what I miss about the older games is the challenge of the encounters. Even older WoW had more challenging encounters then what they have now. Community wise people are going to be D-Bags no matter what game you play, they are going to act elitist no matter what game you play ect. What the older games had in that regard is the same however if you acted like a D-Bag odds of you finding people to play with got smaller and smaller as more and more folks refused to have anything to do with you.

 

Features are not all that make up a game and too many features actually detract from a game. Things like an LFG tool that are properly implemented can enhance a game and make it better but only if its done right.

What Bioware could do since day one, is to add two systems to prevent any lack of accountability and ninja looting:

 

1. Internal Player behavior points system, much like the one used on driver licenses in some countries and US states. This way reported or kicked players will have less to no chances to group up with the same people again, eventually preventing them from doing any group Flashpoint/Warzone content until their restrictions are lifted.

 

2. Proper gear looting restrictions based on item level, queued role, spec, stats, type of armor, selected companion (yellow in Crew Skills) in case no one needs the gear and a companion could use it.

 

 

 

I'm pretty much sure Bioware has an internal statistics system which tells them how, when, and how many players do Flashpoints compared to Warzones. Based on this data, they wiped out the absurd idea of "LFG killing communities" out of their minds.

The issue of a points system is now you’re making it to where the D-Bags can’t find groups by other player’s actions. Using a system that allows a player to chose if they ever want to group with somebody or not is a lot better.

In this way the player that is acting like a D-bag can still find groups but if they keep acting like a D-bag they are going to run out of folks that want to group with them. This system then makes it a result of the players actions that causes them to not find groups vs a result of other peoples actions.

As far as loot goes there is no need to regulate loot when the players get to choose who they group with and who they don’t get to group with.

[Umbral]

For me what I miss about the older games is the challenge of the encounters. Even older WoW had more challenging encounters then what they have now. Community wise people are going to be D-Bags no matter what game you play, they are going to act elitist no matter what game you play ect. What the older games had in that regard is the same however if you acted like a D-Bag odds of you finding people to play with got smaller and smaller as more and more folks refused to have anything to do with you.

 

Oh please. You're out to lunch. Have you ever considered that the reason that the encounters seemed more challenging was because you, and most of those you grouped with, were new to playing mmos? Heck, probably new to computer gaming as a whole for that matter? This is 2012, and mmos have been around for a long time now. More people are familiar with the concepts and mechanics used to create a group encounter now. There's only so much designers can do after all, but to say that group encounters in, say, EQ were "challenging" is almost laughable. No, not almost. It is laughable. Those encounters were like kindergarten. Edited February 12, 2012 by Umbral

[Touchbass]

Oh please. You're out to lunch. Have you ever considered that the reason that the encounters seemed more challenging was because you, and most of those you grouped with, were new to playing mmos? Heck, probably new to computer gaming as a whole for that matter? This is 2012, and mmos have been around for a long time now. More people are familiar with the concepts and mechanics used to create a group encounter now. There's only so much designers can do after all, but to say that group encounters in, say, EQ were "challenging" is almost laughable. No, not almost. It is laughable. Those encounters were like kindergarten.

 

True, back in the day standing in the fire was a realistic challenging mechanic. There is only so much people designers can do without making the fight silly, vechile fights were a complete innovation but people turned them down in masses.

[harpuax]

So waiting in a que for an hour is better than typing in chat for an hour? Sure the low pop servers will find people faster but at the cost of the high pop servers finding them slower. Why should the high pop server people suffer because the low pop server people are too lazy to reroll? Would't server merges/transfers be a better simpler solution?

[Touchbass]

So waiting in a que for an hour is better than typing in chat for an hour? Sure the low pop servers will find people faster but at the cost of the high pop servers finding them slower. Why should the high pop server people suffer because the low pop server people are too lazy to reroll? Would't server merges/transfers be a better simpler solution?

 

 

1) So waiting in a que for an hour is better than typing in chat for an hour

- Are you serious? I'd rather do anything except spam in chat for an hour and constantly scan my friends list for someone available. More importantly it's the reasonable expectation for a group

 

2) at the cost of the high pop servers finding them slower

- Sorry you guys need to share your 'wealth'. Too many people are quitting on low population servers that unless you do something and help out your game will be in ruins

 

3) Would't server merges/transfers be a better simpler solution

- Merges are tricky, what do you do if the the republic side is empty on both sides? Cross server is the only viable solution that works. I'd like a option to opt out of cross server but still have an incentive for people to choose cross server

[harpuax]

1) So waiting in a que for an hour is better than typing in chat for an hour

- Are you serious? I'd rather do anything except spam in chat for an hour and constantly scan my friends list for someone available. More importantly it's the reasonable expectation for a group

 

2) at the cost of the high pop servers finding them slower

- Sorry you guys need to share your 'wealth'. Too many people are quitting on low population servers that unless you do something and help out your game will be in ruins

 

3) Would't server merges/transfers be a better simpler solution

- Merges are tricky, what do you do if the the republic side is empty on both sides? Cross server is the only viable solution that works. I'd like a option to opt out of cross server but still have an incentive for people to choose cross server

 

1) Not wanting to type (and you don't even have to retype, just hit the up arrow) every 5 mins is just plain lazy as it gets.

 

2) Again if they are too lazy to reroll then who wants people like that around. I certainly don't want to be auto grouped with someone like that.

 

3) Bioware has the population numbers from each faction as well as a ton of other data gathered from the serves to merge them. Cross server is NOT the only solution, have you even tried to come up with an alternative? Or do you just assume the blizzard did it so it must be the only option.

 

Too lazy to type in chat, too lazy to reroll, too lazy to come up with your own solution. That is what you post comes down too. End of story.

[Umbral]

So waiting in a que for an hour is better than typing in chat for an hour? Sure the low pop servers will find people faster but at the cost of the high pop servers finding them slower. Why should the high pop server people suffer because the low pop server people are too lazy to reroll? Would't server merges/transfers be a better simpler solution?

There won't be hour long waits anymore, and we'll be able to actually go out and quest, gather, etc etc while we're in a que. Instead of standing around Fleet.

 

My main is on a high pop server. In fact, one of the consistently highest populated servers, and I was always waiting more than a hour to get in a group, sometimes multiple hours over a few days. meaning I would log in, spam chat for a hour or more, then log out in frustration. High pop servers won't wait any longer or less than low pop servers.

 

You people are just grasping at straws now.

 

The lazy thing is just too stupid to respond to. Totally idiotic.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Umbral

[harpuax]

There won't be hour long waits anymore, and we'll be able to actually go out and quest, gather, etc etc while we're in a que. Instead of standing around Fleet.

 

My main is on a high pop server. In fact, one of the consistently highest populated servers, and I was always waiting more than a hour to get in a group, sometimes multiple hours over a few days. meaning I would log in, spam chat for a hour or more, then log out in frustration. High pop servers won't wait any longer or less than low pop servers.

 

You people are just grasping at straws now.

 

The lazy thing is just too stupid to respond to. Totally idiotic.

 

You don't have to wait around in fleet. There are server wide LFG channels players have created.

 

High pop servers will wait longer because low pop servers will be taking people from their pool of people and offer little in return because they don't have the people to contribute. Even if all the servers were equal it would not make things faster. Because as you increase the pool of players you also increase the number of groups looking for players.

 

I am not saying cross server LFG isn't a solution, it just isn't a good one. It's a duct tape answer to the problem and better alternatives need to be discussed.

[Touchbass]

 

2) Again if they are too lazy to reroll then who wants people like that around. I certainly don't want to be auto grouped with someone like that.

.

 

 

You shouldn't make comments like this, it makes people not want to discuss with you. THere are many reasons why people can't and won't re roll and I'll let common sense dictate to you why.

[Touchbass]

High pop servers will wait longer because low pop servers will be taking people from their pool of people and offer little in return because they don't have the people to contribute. Even if all the servers were equal it would not make things faster. Because as you increase the pool of players you also increase the number of groups looking for players.

.

 

This is the unfortunate reality to the solution, is really waiting 15-20 extra minutes for a group that big of a deal? You can go enjoy the game via questing, doing dailies or working on your professions or go /afk and do something in real like helping your mom with the dishes.

 

Unless Bioware introduces a badge system, people won't even be doing the majority of the dungeons anymore once they've geared up. It's hard to find groups while leveling and near impossible for some people for specific dungeons.

[Lerthan]

Oh please. You're out to lunch. Have you ever considered that the reason that the encounters seemed more challenging was because you, and most of those you grouped with, were new to playing mmos? Heck, probably new to computer gaming as a whole for that matter? This is 2012, and mmos have been around for a long time now. More people are familiar with the concepts and mechanics used to create a group encounter now. There's only so much designers can do after all, but to say that group encounters in, say, EQ were "challenging" is almost laughable. No, not almost. It is laughable. Those encounters were like kindergarten.

 

People one shotting the end game boss in content speaks for its self. Back in BC that never happened. Just in 8 years game content has changed. Not saying that raiding is boring anymore just saying that there was a lot more to it back in the day then just standing behind the boss spamming the same three buttons over and over again. There where a lot more to the fights going on and they where a challenge and very little room for error. Now if somebody stands in fire for a couple ticks its not a big deal, the healer can out heal it and they are not going to die. Back then you stayed in for even one tick there was a good chance you would wipe the raid.

 

Not to mention the challenge of finding things in the game, There where rare and unique items that you had to actually go threw weeks worth of exploration just to accomplish and get. And that was solo play.

 

There where things like the old Ony attunement that you actually had to go threw a lot of things just to finish it. Was it necessarily harder no, but it was more challenging in the fact of what you had to do in order to accomplish it.

 

I have been playing MMO's sense MuDD's, most of the content in a MuDD is more challenging then the content currently in WoW and most other games. Most of those boss fights in order to figure them out for the new bosses that came out. You had to find the clues in the game to even figure out how to get to the boss, much less the clues you had to find in order to figure out how to fight the boss.

 

Frankly this game is so easy I am leveling my smuggler without picking an advanced class and doing just fine. I am doing heroic 2s with just me and my companion and only a level or two higher then what the Heroic 2 calls for.

 

So waiting in a que for an hour is better than typing in chat for an hour? Sure the low pop servers will find people faster but at the cost of the high pop servers finding them slower. Why should the high pop server people suffer because the low pop server people are too lazy to reroll? Would't server merges/transfers be a better simpler solution?

 

Yes sitting in a que for an hour is better, I can do other things and sit in a Que. I can go quest, play around on the AH, do daily's and actually accomplish more then sitting in the fleet spamming for an hour.

 

Do I think there needs to be more to the LFG system then just throwing folks into a que, heck yah. We can do a system that is so much better then anything else out there, resolves issues that people have with it and still get a tool that does everything that it needs to.

[harpuax]

This is the unfortunate reality to the solution, is really waiting 15-20 extra minutes for a group that big of a deal? You can go enjoy the game via questing, doing dailies or working on your professions or go /afk and do something in real like helping your mom with the dishes.

 

Unless Bioware introduces a badge system, people won't even be doing the majority of the dungeons anymore once they've geared up. It's hard to find groups while leveling and near impossible for some people for specific dungeons.

 

Waiting longer is ok? isn't the point of the LFD que system to wait less? If we wait longer what is the point of the tool?

[harpuax]

Yes sitting in a que for an hour is better, I can do other things and sit in a Que. I can go quest, play around on the AH, do daily's and actually accomplish more then sitting in the fleet spamming for an hour.

 

Do I think there needs to be more to the LFG system then just throwing folks into a que, heck yah. We can do a system that is so much better then anything else out there, resolves issues that people have with it and still get a tool that does everything that it needs to.

 

Ok I am going to say this nice and slow so everone can understand it...

 

You

 

Do

 

Not

 

Have

 

To

 

Sit

 

in

 

Fleet

 

to

 

find

 

a

 

group,

 

Use

 

The

 

Server-Wide

 

LFG

 

Channel

 

Type /cjoin lfg if you have not already. Warning: This in ONLY in response to the "have to sit in fleet" comments.

 

Your last paragraph is spot on and what I am trying to get people to realize. The community is far too divided on this for it to have a positive effect on the game currently. It's like the pro-life verses pro-choice debate. Neither side will ever listen to the other. We need a compromise. No we cannot please everyone, but it doesn't have to piss off everyone so much is causes half or even 20% of the player-base to rage quit.

[MajikMyst]

Waiting longer is ok? isn't the point of the LFD que system to wait less? If we wait longer what is the point of the tool?

 

In my experience, in WOW.. The LFD system worked fine for tanks and sorta ok for healers.. Tanks would get groups almost instantly.. Healers would sometimes have a wait of up to 20 minutes or so.. DPS was the real issue.. On my lock there were times I was still waiting 2 hours for a group.. It did little to nothing for DPS.. Many people in my guild simply didn't use it because of that.. They could find a group faster by spamming trade.. They also didn't have to worry about off server ninja looters..

 

Over all the LFD system did very little for the majority of the people.. DPS.. You were always better off to form groups from your guild, or spam trade.. At least in my experience..

 

SWOTR is all together different.. The biggest problem I see with this game currently is server population.. We need some server mergers badly.. Not to mention some server transfers.. But over all.. I think the servers for WOW held far more than the servers for SWTOR..

 

So it is a double edged sword.. More people would mean more competition doing quests and killing quest objects.. I can remember in one of the beta's people were literally standing in line to click a box or kill a mob.. Just to do their quests.. Imagine WOW on the first days of Cata, or Lich King.. Everyone was trying to level to 80 or 85 respectively.. Initial releases are a pain.. But we have to go through them..

 

Is an LFG system like WOW going to help here?? No.. It will create more issues than it solves.. The big issue here is simply the number of people and the size of servers.. What they need to do is instance the servers.. Take say a group of about 4 severs, link all the chats, GTN's, and so forth.. Make it appear that all the servers are just one big server.. But are still seperate for questing.. But instance them all so the current LFG tools will actually be of some ues..

Edited February 12, 2012 by MajikMyst

[Touchbass]

Waiting longer is ok? isn't the point of the LFD que system to wait less? If we wait longer what is the point of the tool?

 

I don't think you understand the point of X-LFD

 

It reduces the queue from certain people not being able to run an instance all to giving them an opportunity to run an instance in a reasonable timeline. I've conceded that people on high population may wait a bit longer on average but lets not spilt hairs