Shouldnt there be a big difference in new 50s and BM 50s?

[vrok-]

In the 50 bracket, this gap is too big...I know this because I have a 50 jugg that is 500+ expertise. It needs to be more like it is in the 10-49 bracket.

What exactly does this mean?

 

That you destroy people with your 500 expertise? My alt just now got 500 expertise in exactly one week without grinding extra bags, and they'll even be making it easier to get.

 

That you get owned because you only have 500 expertise? My main is a BM guardian with 700 expertise. The difference between 500 and 700 is ~2.4%. Hardly game breaking.

 

Anyone who says the 10-49 bracket is more balanced is full of **** and have no idea what they're talking about. Period. These are the facts. Deal with it.

Edited February 6, 2012 by vrok-

[IAmJakub]

I didn't bother trying pvp at all while leveling so when I hit 50 I decided to finally try it out. Well after being put in match after match against people decked out in full pvp gear and spending the whole time dying very quickly I finally said **** it and stopped trying pvp for good. There shouldn't be such a massive imbalance like there is right now.

 

Its like hitting 50 and wanting to do hard modes and doing laughable damage and getting hit hard. Your gear simply isn't there for what you want to do. I admit in PvP you do not really have the choice to select what kind of opponent you are up against but maybe that is something BW should look into, provide brackets or a matching system that considers players valor rank.

 

Edit: Mind you PvP is more forgiving, if you want to PvE above your gear level you will simply NOT progress, if you PvP above your gear level you can still acquire gear but at a slower pace

Edited February 6, 2012 by IAmJakub

[Urieaal]

If there's an actual gear nerf top PvPers will leave the game in droves. Nobody likes having their time rendered meaningless. I'm pretty sure BW means to introduce entry level PvP gear for new 50s, they can't be that stupid.

 

^ i didnt put the last 3 weeks in for champion gear (still dont have my weapon) and the time it takes to hit 60 valor currently at 57 just so some jag of new player can run in after 2 weeks of straight playing to have every thing i do.

 

I certainly didn't put up with all the ignorant or blatantly stupid folk in pvp matches who have no clue what there doing, Talking to you guy/girl who runs the huttball the wrong way.

 

some times your on the short side of the poop stick other times your the one smacking people in the face with the poop stick, we all had to work for it and toning it down just demeans the time the others had to put in for it.

 

theres already entry level pvp gear... the centurion gear is entry level but you still only get tokens from champ bags the best they could do is offer daily's or something for centurion tokens i guess....

 

 

Its like hitting 50 and wanting to do hard modes and doing laughable damage and getting hit hard. Your gear simply isn't there for what you want to do. I admit in PvP you do not really have the choice to select what kind of opponent you are up against but maybe that is something BW should look into, provide brackets or a matching system that considers players valor rank.

 

Edit: Mind you PvP is more forgiving, if you want to PvE above your gear level you will simply NOT progress, if you PvP above your gear level you can still acquire gear but at a slower pace

 

 

^ that also..

 

edit: there planning to add level brackets and ranking brackets so ya.... although i hope the ranking system is not what i think every ones hoping for basically champ gear vs champ gear there would never be any thing but huttball for imps ever..

Edited February 6, 2012 by Urieaal

[Brimmer]

^ i didnt put the last 3 weeks in for champion gear (still dont have my weapon) and the time it takes to hit 60 valor currently at 57 just so some jag of new player can run in after 2 weeks of straight playing to have every thing i do.

 

^ Entitlement issues? Grow up, this game is about story / pve / alts. It's your own fault if you decided to put all your time and effort into pvp on a single character, and not expect this to happen.

 

I certainly didn't put up with all the ignorant or blatantly stupid folk in pvp matches who have no clue what there doing, Talking to you guy/girl who runs the huttball the wrong way.

 

It's a game, calm down. If they are enjoying themselves there isn't anything wrong with it.

 

some times your on the short side of the poop stick other times your the one smacking people in the face with the poop stick, we all had to work for it and toning it down just demeans the time the others had to put in for it.

 

Oh? I see you're back to the entitlement thing again. "I want this! I want that! How dare it be balanced I want god mode!"

 

theres already entry level pvp gear... the centurion gear is entry level but you still only get tokens from champ bags the best they could do is offer daily's or something for centurion tokens i guess....

 

The game is extremely unbalanced at this point in time, if you have issues with advantages being taken away from you go to another game....

Edited February 6, 2012 by Brimmer

[VandredTOR]

What exactly does this mean?

 

That you destroy people with your 500 expertise? My alt just now got 500 expertise in exactly one week without grinding extra bags, and they'll even be making it easier to get.

 

That you get owned because you only have 500 expertise? My main is a BM guardian with 700 expertise. The difference between 500 and 700 is ~2.4%. Hardly game breaking.

 

Anyone who says the 10-49 bracket is more balanced is full of **** and have no idea what they're talking about. Period. These are the facts. Deal with it.

 

Sorry I didn't clarify...it's too big because I faceroll people without gear and that's lame. It's pretty close to the same as fighting green level mobs...yawn.

 

It's not just about expertise either. There's a pretty massive gap in all the "normal" stats between crafted/purples and the champ gear.

 

My jugg has plenty of gear to compete in the 50s bracket. If I lose a 1 on 1 fight, it's because I was outplayed, the short comings of my class, or a combination thereof.

 

I actually have barely played her for the last few weeks. Sitting at rank 58 for a while now...I basically abandon her to play the marauder I mentioned.

[VandredTOR]

^ i didnt put the last 3 weeks in for champion gear (still dont have my weapon) and the time it takes to hit 60 valor currently at 57 just so some jag of new player can run in after 2 weeks of straight playing to have every thing i do.

 

I certainly didn't put up with all the ignorant or blatantly stupid folk in pvp matches who have no clue what there doing, Talking to you guy/girl who runs the huttball the wrong way.

 

some times your on the short side of the poop stick other times your the one smacking people in the face with the poop stick, we all had to work for it and toning it down just demeans the time the others had to put in for it.

 

theres already entry level pvp gear... the centurion gear is entry level but you still only get tokens from champ bags the best they could do is offer daily's or something for centurion tokens i guess....

 

 

 

 

 

^ that also..

 

edit: there planning to add level brackets and ranking brackets so ya.... although i hope the ranking system is not what i think every ones hoping for basically champ gear vs champ gear there would never be any thing but huttball for imps ever..

 

You're right...they shouldn't have what you have. You should have fancy titles, cooler looking gear, and slightly higher stats because of your gear. Not a massive advantage such as the one that exists now.

[IAmJakub]

The game is extremely unbalanced at this point in time, if you have issues with advantages being taken away from you go to another game....

 

Lets just be able to buy all gear for 1 credit, I mean any gear, you know the rare thing you got from that really hard boss on a hard mode, or that crafted earpeace which took ages to make. Well now a guy who runs into the wall half the time and clearly is mentally impaired gets the same stuff just because. Yes that would make the game heaps fun, and challenging too...or not

[Brutem]

Don't people get that the difference between a BM and a fresh 50 is supposed to be battle experience? Having played that many matches (well, if people weren't cheesing Ilum) you should already have a huge advantage in pvp. Why make the gap even wider by adding a gear differential on top of it.

 

As the Op stated he "felt" like he deserved an advantage from gear and a lot actually need a gear advantage in order to PvP, once the gear advantage is smaller, also is their chances of success. People tend to see gear as the only way to improve their character in MMOs, in turn gear now becomes their crutch once they feel that way.

 

After all look at all the "don't nerf my gear!" or "don't close the gear gap!" threads which have been popping up since they announced the "gap is too big between new 50s and BM geared 50s". After all their intentions for the pvp gear was originally 10% gap, not 30-45% advantage.

[CrunchyGremlin]

What this game really needs is more meaningful PvP.

 

Leaderboards, proper server stats, Rep v Imps win/loss ratios, recognition for the best servers, etc.

 

I think PvP gear should matter some but not a staggering amount, but currently it's the only yardstick they have post L50.

 

More, and more meaningful PvP systems (because Ilum is just a big, fat fail right now). Toss a load of these CCs too because if people want a 'skill' based PvP experience then the CC spamming is the worst kind of equaliser you can have.

 

I want to see how I'm ranking compared to other guys on my server say for DPS or just for my class, etc. I think if that was more the case then people wouldn't care so much about wanting a staggering difference in PvP gear tiers.

 

DOnt care for your fixes but i agree with the direction.

 

No amount of complaining about gear will fix this issue. In fact it will only make it worse.

So what if they change gear so its all equal or everyone gets full BM. Now what?

No more farming crates.

No more need for valor.

 

 

The point of this is that PvP has not enough content.

 

The progression needs to be PvP progression and since this is an RPG it means it needs to be RPG style progression.

 

Heres an idea. Take ilum as is.

make it so that once you take a point the previous point becomes inaccessible to the other faction.

Meaning you can prevent them from crate farming the central area and if you take their base you gain access to a new area.

That is basic RPG PvP progression.

 

Or endless Ilum.

where if you take all objectives a new Ilum spawns that for the winning side is only accessible via the the other faction base in the previous ilum. They enter at the oldest instance same faction base.

So the stronger team has to go farther and farther until the fight is "fair" due to logistics.

The losing side enters ilum at the newest instance friendly base.

Each instance taken gives a persistent world buff to your faction.

more creds from missions. more crafting supplies. better bag drops.

 

there was another thread about this which i thought had some good ideas on PvP improvement although not great it was in the right direction.

 

Universe at war

Edited February 7, 2012 by CrunchyGremlin

[VandredTOR]

Anyone who says the 10-49 bracket is more balanced is full of **** and have no idea what they're talking about. Period. These are the facts. Deal with it.

 

You have no idea what you're talking about when you make this statement. It is significantly more "even".

 

The gap between a fresh 50 vs a champ or BM geared 50, is vastly more disparate than the gap between even a level 10 and a level 49 in the 10-49 bracket.

[Brimmer]

Lets just be able to buy all gear for 1 credit, I mean any gear, you know the rare thing you got from that really hard boss on a hard mode, or that crafted earpeace which took ages to make. Well now a guy who runs into the wall half the time and clearly is mentally impaired gets the same stuff just because. Yes that would make the game heaps fun, and challenging too...or not

 

Way to come off as a fool.

[IAmJakub]

Way to come off as a fool.

 

Those are the only kind of posts which get replies, the coherent ones don't even get a second look as they make whoever is presenting counter argument realize they are just wrong. Read my reply before before that and prove me wrong. For the record even my foolish reply holds more ground than your rant about entitlements being bad.

[Irishbrewed]

Lets just be able to buy all gear for 1 credit, I mean any gear, you know the rare thing you got from that really hard boss on a hard mode, or that crafted earpeace which took ages to make. Well now a guy who runs into the wall half the time and clearly is mentally impaired gets the same stuff just because. Yes that would make the game heaps fun, and challenging too...or not

 

This is pvp, not pve. They who indulge in that time sink take pride in their boss kill, pvpers take pride in killing the other guy. Our time sink and challenge comes from COMPETITION, we want the other guy just as geared as us, thus validating our victory. We don't wanna time sink for gear we wanna compete with equally gear opponents. That's the fun part. That's what we enjoy. Watching a back pedaling clicking scrub kill players just because of his gear is not competition rather a game rewarding a lifeless individual...

[Sirchuck]

The original poster mentioned that Rift died due to a nerf to pvp gear. Actually I think it died because the nerf didn't come soon enough. For several weeks people were mentioning that the gear difference was insane and many of them (including myself) finally quit before any nerf to gear was ever implemented.

 

I had other stuff going on so I didn't level as quickly as most but the same people I embarassed in the low lvl bracket destroyed me along with a couple either people at the same time due to gear, and only gear.

[mondose]

Disparity in gear is the reason pvp in mmo's is so terrible.

 

You play an RTS, racing game, fighting game, FPS etc and a persons skill actually matters.

 

In mmo's it's all about who ever has the most epics. If BioWare intends to try and change that then I say good on them and it can't come sooner.

 

i just you go stick to ur mindless fps games...

 

the nooobness of ur comment is soooooo awmgggg so nooob man

 

okok the gear difference between champion and battlemaster is so little it doesnt even matter

 

also gear adds another part of the skill element into the game "strategy" you gear out your guy to have different stats (using mods etc) which adds a bit more strategic element to the game

 

sorry if ur guy sucks and isnt properly geared at 50 but! its so easy to get gear and once you get champion/cenarion nothing is much of a upgrade anymore

 

i see this one sided arguement all the time "in mmo people wit higher gear always win"

 

it is completley untrue p;

 

essentially all it does is help keep the noobs at the bottom and the commited player at the top of the scoreboards

 

if you just dinged 50 and u havent farmed for ur gear and you play against me (bm rank) and our gear was even do u still think u could win? It would be more even but u still wouldnt win

Edited February 7, 2012 by mondose

[Quibbling]

I believe the root of the issue isn't simply gear discrepancy. The root of the issue might really be lack of scaling challenge in pvp because of lack of any ranking system to keep people of similar skill/gear against each other. In unranked PVP, getting better gear results in the game becoming less challenge, instead of more...

 

In PvE, we expect that as we move upwards in PvE dungeon tiers, the difficulty to increase. But in unranked PvP, things just get easier as you move up because you don't get to see better competition.

 

I don't mind people getting much better gear. I think the heart of the issue is competition - which only declines in quality as gear discrepancy grows between people on the same battlefield. People should be pitted against people of similar gear level.

 

They really need to get gear-ranked WZ in as soon as possible, as well as add cross server WZ (so they can quickly fill WZ with equally geared people).

Edited February 7, 2012 by Quibbling

[Brimmer]

i just you go stick to ur mindless fps games...

 

the nooobness of ur comment is soooooo awmgggg so nooob man

 

okok the gear difference between champion and battlemaster is so little it doesnt even matter

 

also gear adds another part of the skill element into the game "strategy" you gear out your guy to have different stats (using mods etc) which adds a bit more strategic element to the game

 

sorry if ur guy sucks and isnt properly geared at 50 but! its so easy to get gear and once you get champion/cenarion nothing is much of a upgrade anymore

 

i see this one sided arguement all the time "in mmo people wit higher gear always win"

 

it is completley untrue p;

 

essentially all it does is help keep the noobs at the bottom and the commited player at the top of the scoreboards

 

if you just dinged 50 and u havent farmed for ur gear and you play against me (bm rank) and our gear was even do u still think u could win? It would be more even but u still wouldnt win

 

In your own words...."the nooobness of ur comment is soooooo awmgggg so nooob man"

 

As to the comment about people with better gear always winning, that isn't the case, but it sure gives them an unentertaining (for both sides) advantage.

 

What fun is there in killing a foe who has such a huge disadvantage before the fight even start? The only thing I like about expertise is taking out a foe who vastly outgears me then /laugh at them.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Brimmer

[bowtec]

i think this would not be such a problum if there was more world pvp.i personaly do not care to be forced to que up.i do but just for the grind i dont find it (fun).there should be reasons to pvp,on tat, hoth,ect.with missions that have meaning.bases to take and hold something instead of a que or illum witch could be cool but is kinda a joke the way its set up now.im not sure what the reasoning behind not having epic battles,or just a cool night of open world pvp is but some one(bioware).needs to figure this out.in short pvp and pve should work togeather,but i think right now pvp is gettin the shaft!

[Lazirus-]

Why people don't want gear to matter in a game where fighting other players is inherently about rock, paper, scissors is beyond me...

 

Maybe this isn't the genre for you.

[Razot]

This thread is the perfect example of why PvP in MMO's is retarded.

 

If you think PvP is about gear, you're a noob. If you think MMO PvP should be about gear, don't bother telling anyone how PvE is easy mode and the real challenge is in PvP, because you've proven you don't care about challenge, you just want to roll newbies.

 

PvP should be based as much on skill as possible and as little on gear crutches as possible. Unfortunately, most people who claim to be PvP'ers are the gear crutch type. You know the kind, the ones who race to the end game and gear up before anyone else so they can destroy lower levels and people with inferior gear. These are the same people who whined when they made a 50 only bracket and we no longer able to farm the masses.

 

Hopefully Bioware doesn't cater to these people and decides that skilled competition is better than who can level and gear up the fastest.

 

Yup and i might add they will be the first to whine when nobody queues up for pvp anymore and they have to wait an hour between matches. And what i love world PVP will be dead.

[GregMD]

Why people don't want gear to matter in a game where fighting other players is inherently about rock, paper, scissors is beyond me...

 

Maybe this isn't the genre for you.

Because rock paper scissors isn't good pvp

[Lazirus-]

Because rock paper scissors isn't good pvp

 

Then maybe you shouldn't play a game that has people with a lot of health, people who damage health and people who heal health.

[Darth_Paddy]

Seriously, this is what your whining and complaining about...that people with better gear are harder to play against?.

 

It take about 2 weeks to get yourself geared in champion once you pop 50, thats it. It's not that hard to do. Most other MMO takes a lot longer and more work to get your PVP gear then it does in swtor, be grateful.

 

I think the bigger problem fresh 50's have is lack of experience at higher level gameplay. I have an alt, and do the lower bracket WZ's with it and sorry to say the quality of the gameplay is atrocious compared to lvl 50. Yes the gear also makes a difference but do not think for a minute the level you played at 1-49 is anything like 50's. You need to relearn how your playing.

[salvadorellama]

So you want a more uneven playing field in which skill is less relevant?

 

This.

 

I want to see a PvP experience in which skill, not gear, decides who wins.

 

Gear should give you a *slight* edge. Not put you in godmode.

[Mhorlok]

It take about 2 weeks to get yourself geared in champion once you pop 50

 

best case scenerio perhaps...

 

Over 7 hours played tonight to get my daily and I have 1 of 3 wins.

 

I went from 18 Warzone commendations to 970 and still only 1 win - thats alot of Warzone Commendations coming all from loses.

 

Tonight I get 1 Champ bag - after 7 hours of play, I don't think 7 hours a night is considered "casual"

 

So how do you figure 2 weeks to be in Champ gear?