TetraCleric Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Did nobody read what I posted? It's fine if you want to move cc talents up trees, but at least admit that going up a full sorc dps tree is gimped as hell. Seriously, go thundering blast for pvp and come back and talk. You won't even remotely compete with it. Even with all the cc, it's still terrible. Do you honestly think the only reason we go hybrid is to be op? It's seriously because doing a one tree specialization is AWFUL. lololololololololololololololol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beslley Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 lololololololololololololololol Not sure what you're laughing about. If you're going to argue with me, at least try to be coherent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetraCleric Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Not sure what you're laughing about. If you're going to argue with me, at least try to be coherent. Quite simply put, 31 mad is 3% behind the hybrid spec. And is actually a better PvP spec for a good player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beslley Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Quite simply put, 31 mad is 3% behind the hybrid spec. And is actually a better PvP spec for a good player. Fair enough. Just looking at pure numbers though, hybrid puts out more dps if you ignore some of the cc. My point with lightning sorcs still stands, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Quite simply put, 31 mad is 3% behind the hybrid spec. And is actually a better PvP spec for a good player. 31 madness is the kite spec, and does well. It trades the utility of the hybrid for the excellent damage talents at the top of the tree. Chastising him w/ "lolololol" does not, however, make you sound like you are making an intelligent argument and really hurts your credibility if you were trying to make any real point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartanik Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) From my experience in pvp sages and sorcerers arent OP, they are ranged classes, so they can jerk from afar ( to manny people this is op) It cleary isnt. its what ranged classes do, once you are close to then you can kill them fairly easy if you are on the same level. Comandos and mercenaries, its other talk though. Tracer missiles and grav rounds deal to much dmg. and their defense stats are insane. Edited February 13, 2012 by Spartanik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetraCleric Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Fair enough. Just looking at pure numbers though, hybrid puts out more dps if you ignore some of the cc. My point with lightning sorcs still stands, though. 3% isn't a big difference. And the CC gained from the 31 point talent will always be better than any CC you can pick up without losing DPS as hybrid. The only reason you think hybrid is better is because of Chain Lightning AoE's that pad your numbers in Warzones. Edited February 13, 2012 by TetraCleric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justcallmetarzan Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Did nobody read what I posted? It's fine if you want to move cc talents up trees, but at least admit that going up a full sorc dps tree is gimped as hell. Did you not read what I posted? That the dps difference between 13/28 and 3/7/31 is only about 30 dps? I rechecked, and the actual numbers are: 3/7/31 - 1225 dps 3/31/7 - 1239 0/13/28 - 1265 Seriously, go thundering blast for pvp and come back and talk. You won't even remotely compete with it. Even with all the cc, it's still terrible. Do you honestly think the only reason we go hybrid is to be op? It's seriously because doing a one tree specialization is AWFUL. If you aren't getting similar numbers by going up one tree then I beg to differ about where "AWFUL" lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YMIHere Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Hybrid Marauder builds do not work. At all. We use a stance system where each spec has all it's abilities dependent on one of three stances. Would you like for me to QQ about Wrath allowing hybrid specs that are powerful? My pure DPS class certainly doesn't have anything close to viable hybrid builds. Maybe they need to just have Wrath effect only lightning strike and crushing darkness? Perhaps then you'd have an argument for SW hybrids being just as viable. As far as stance goes, I made this spec that doesn't have any stance reliances that I can see in the Rage tree. Feel free to fill me in if that's not the case. I have no idea what your big hits are, but I saw Vicious Slash all over the place so I specced that hoping for synergy. You lose Annihilate just as I lose Creeping Terror. Bad spec? Welcome to nerf shoutouts on a new game with no 50 templates on the test server. You haven't used a sorc in any meaningful way, I haven't used a marauder at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumri Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) That spec is terrible. Annihilate, Force Crush, and Massacre are our main class defining abilities. They bring the entire talent tree together and that's part of why pre-40 Marauders are terrible during leveling.You cannot do well with that crap hybrid spec. Sorcerers however have a talent tree that is incredibly flexible and that's probably why you're thinking this sort of stuff works with other classes. If only all our ACs were so blessed... Edited February 13, 2012 by Tumri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geewiz Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I dont want to see sorcs or hybrid specs nerfed. They need to bring the other classes up to speed. Im really tired of everything getting nerfed. I level cybertech for grenades...nerfed... I level biochem... nerfed.... twice... I level a Jugg... surge nerfed. They need to put that nerf bat away, and come up with improvements to classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) It doesn't count towards protection. You sure you're not getting sorc confused with assassins on the scoreboard because they have the same icon? I've never gotten any protection points and I use my bubble as much as possible. They were sages/sorcs because they had 300k healing medals as well. Maybe it's something else besides force armor, but regardless as a healer them being able to get extra medals compared to commandos and scoundrels isn't fair. Which melee class exactly? Marauders and Juggernauts that have two leaps? Pyrotechs that have a leap and a pull? Assassins that have a pull, a sprint, and a vanish? Or an Operatives that have a vanish and a cleanse? It's far from OP, but by all means keep complaining about that one though. If I get nerfed to lose that it won't bother me in the slightest. =P You can't leap when rooted, and 2 seconds is long enough for them to sprint away and LoS to heal so we can't leap to them. Also, our "2nd leap" is talented so not all guardians have it, but even if they do have it, it's only 10 meters, so it's not effective at all in trying to stick to you. Edited February 13, 2012 by Smashbrother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Did nobody read what I posted? It's fine if you want to move cc talents up trees, but at least admit that going up a full sorc dps tree is gimped as hell. Seriously, go thundering blast for pvp and come back and talk. You won't even remotely compete with it. Even with all the cc, it's still terrible. Do you honestly think the only reason we go hybrid is to be op? It's seriously because doing a one tree specialization is AWFUL. Going up a full sorc tree is not "gimped". Anyone that played a frost mage/ele shaman/fire mage can make lightning work with ease. You have instant sheep, a elemental shaman knockback that roots (as lightning), a ranged stun and you have to actually cast spells with a cast time? Welcome to being a caster in all other MMO's. Things you don't have to deal with (that you have to deal with in other mmo's? Dispelling your shield, spell immunity, diminishing returns, cast time on CC, immunity to roots via buffs from healers, dispel having no cooldown and healers making melee gods. Lightning is a hell of a lot better then some of the other garbage secondary specs that other classes have. Seriously you people are so spoiled you actually think all three trees need to be the BEST in the game. Hybrid spec is stupidly op, full balance is STILL the best ranged spec in the game (just not far and away the best), the heal spec is the best heal spec in the game (for pvp) and lightning is better then say... Dirty fighting scoundrel lol. I had no problems leading dmg with it in beta. Was it as good as the other specs? Hell no. It was still viable though. Voidstar with lightning spec and typical baddies who all stand together = LOL. Who the hell is requiring you play as lightning anyways? They already said they are having dual spec in the game soon. You can be lightning for pve if you want and full balance for pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Going up a full sorc tree is not "gimped". Anyone that played a frost mage/ele shaman/fire mage can make lightning work with ease. You have instant sheep, a elemental shaman knockback that roots (as lightning), a ranged stun and you have to actually cast spells with a cast time? Welcome to being a caster in all other MMO's. Things you don't have to deal with (that you have to deal with in other mmo's? Dispelling your shield, spell immunity, diminishing returns, cast time on CC, immunity to roots via buffs from healers, dispel having no cooldown and healers making melee gods. Lightning is a hell of a lot better then some of the other garbage secondary specs that other classes have. Seriously you people are so spoiled you actually think all three trees need to be the BEST in the game. Hybrid spec is stupidly op, full balance is STILL the best ranged spec in the game (just not far and away the best), the heal spec is the best heal spec in the game (for pvp) and lightning is better then say... Dirty fighting scoundrel lol. I had no problems leading dmg with it in beta. Was it as good as the other specs? Hell no. It was still viable though. Voidstar with lightning spec and typical baddies who all stand together = LOL. Who the hell is requiring you play as lightning anyways? They already said they are having dual spec in the game soon. You can be lightning for pve if you want and full balance for pvp. Well, you are kind of saying that you want them to spec full balance/madness or full healing only for pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLakers Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I dont want to see sorcs or hybrid specs nerfed. They need to bring the other classes up to speed. Im really tired of everything getting nerfed. I level cybertech for grenades...nerfed... I level biochem... nerfed.... twice... I level a Jugg... surge nerfed. They need to put that nerf bat away, and come up with improvements to classes. You're a flavor of the month lemming. You deserved those nerfs, just like Sorcs/Sages need to be nerfed for the sake of game balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geewiz Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 You're a flavor of the month lemming. You deserved those nerfs, just like Sorcs/Sages need to be nerfed for the sake of game balance. Not very constructive. Ive plated jugg since pre-launch. When they nerfed cybertech grenades, it would be foolish to keep them. Biochem, ill admit, FOTM... but what else is there for a level 50? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Well, you are kind of saying that you want them to spec full balance/madness or full healing only for pvp. So you will have two truly viable pvp specs? Best ranged (very slightly with the nerf to hyrbid) and best healer? I have one as a sent/marauder and I am pure dps... Cry me a river. Carnage/Combat is only good for killing badly geared players. Focus/Rage? See Carnage and add to that morons that stand together. Both specs were good when noone had gear. Now they are garbage. The only viable tree against decent players is anni/watchman because you are knocked back, rooted, stunned, slowed in the majority of your gameplay. Without dots ticking we would be useless. Again you want it better then everyone else. If they nerf the hybrid spec? YOU STILL HAVE IT BETTER THEN EVERYONE ELSE. LOL at dual spec being added and you being either the best ranged class or the best healer in the same gear set... Yeah you would have it SOOOOO bad if they nerfed the hybrid spec. How could you continue to play this game with all the suffering you have to go through as a sorc/sage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumri Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) ^ I lol'd. Then I cried. I rolled Marauder because I thought they would give pure DPS classes REAL options for DPS specs. Two of our specs ended up being terrible. Hybrids have more viable DPS specs than a triple DPS spec AC... but that's another topic entirely so I'll stop here before I go into a big rant about it. Edited February 13, 2012 by Tumri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YMIHere Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 They were sages/sorcs because they had 300k healing medals as well. Maybe it's something else besides force armor, but regardless as a healer them being able to get extra medals compared to commandos and scoundrels isn't fair. I know healing points can be gained by non healers through items and the recharge move (doubt it's 300k though), but I have no idea how a sorc could get protection points. Anyone? You can't leap when rooted, and 2 seconds is long enough for them to sprint away and LoS to heal so we can't leap to them. Also, our "2nd leap" is talented so not all guardians have it, but even if they do have it, it's only 10 meters, so it's not effective at all in trying to stick to you. How about Force Push then? It's getting pretty ridiculous to have to keep looking up other peoples skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matekwong Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I totally agree with the Topic starter. On my server 70% of the IMPs I have met are sorcs. Imagine a bunch of premade sorcs running around Civil war and Huttball not to mention slideshow Ilum PVP which the Reps can't even get near them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumri Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 How about Force Push then? It's getting pretty ridiculous to have to keep looking up other peoples skills. Juggernaut ability. If you don't know the abilities another class has how can you possibly argue anything about them? In addition to this PvP is all about knowing what your opponent can do to you. If you don't know what other classes can do then you just cannot be a great PvPer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 So you will have two truly viable pvp specs? Best ranged (very slightly with the nerf to hyrbid) and best healer? I have one as a sent/marauder and I am pure dps... Cry me a river. Carnage/Combat is only good for killing badly geared players. Focus/Rage? See Carnage and add to that morons that stand together. Both specs were good when noone had gear. Now they are garbage. The only viable tree against decent players is anni/watchman because you are knocked back, rooted, stunned, slowed in the majority of your gameplay. Without dots ticking we would be useless. Again you want it better then everyone else. If they nerf the hybrid spec? YOU STILL HAVE IT BETTER THEN EVERYONE ELSE. LOL at dual spec being added and you being either the best ranged class or the best healer in the same gear set... Yeah you would have it SOOOOO bad if they nerfed the hybrid spec. How could you continue to play this game with all the suffering you have to go through as a sorc/sage. lol, I've mentioned at least 3 times that I'm a Powertech in this thread. I dropped my hybrid Sorc a long time ago, because well, I just have a lot more fun on my Powertech. So no, I don't want it better than everyone else. I just don't feel that the spec is OP, and I certainly haven't come across any that have made me feel that the game was unfair in any way. There are methods to deal w/ hybrid Sorcs, which instead of even attempting to use, people just laugh outright at and continue to get owned by Sorcs and then come here to the forums to cry. As an aside, I am a hybrid Powertech for Hydraulic Overrides specifically to circumvent the knockbacks, roots, pulls, pushes, etc. I gave up a ton of damage for my utility; there was a tradeoff. Sorcs also sacrifice most of the good damage talents for the utility of 0/23/18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datku Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I'm not asking for a nerf to legitimate specs. No your asking for the nerf of a spec that works. Why does a pure build have to be more than a hybrid? Just because someone spreads their points out and gets a collection of abilites that senergize well you want to nerf it. Hybrid is not the only spec for Sorcs/Sages. You have healing builds, you have your "pure" lightining build, you have about 3 or 4 different hybrid builds viable in a number of situations. There really isn't a "you must build this way or you're doing it wrong" build. Just about any build can be viable when well executed and practiced. Or are you the only one that is gifted enough to actually call what you do "skill"? Are you a pure build...every single point in one tree? Or are you a hybrid even if you have 31 points in one tree and the remainder in one or both other trees? No you are asking for a nerf to several (I know of at least 4 different "hybrid" builds that can work decently) options for one class probably because they touched you in your no no spot at some point. What is the problem with hybrid builds? Why must you use "pure" builds when you can spread points over 2 or 3 skill trees to mix and match abilites. You go to the 31 point skill if its any good (and many are not worth 31 points). What makes your spec legitimate any more than my spec? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumri Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 ^ You clearly did not see the bright red text requesting that people read the ENTIRE ORIGINAL POST. Please do so and post again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 lol, I've mentioned at least 3 times that I'm a Powertech in this thread. I dropped my hybrid Sorc a long time ago, because well, I just have a lot more fun on my Powertech. So no, I don't want it better than everyone else. I just don't feel that the spec is OP, and I certainly haven't come across any that have made me feel that the game was unfair in any way. There are methods to deal w/ hybrid Sorcs, which instead of even attempting to use, people just laugh outright at and continue to get owned by Sorcs and then come here to the forums to cry. As an aside, I am a hybrid Powertech for Hydraulic Overrides specifically to circumvent the knockbacks, roots, pulls, pushes, etc. I gave up a ton of damage for my utility; there was a tradeoff. Sorcs also sacrifice most of the good damage talents for the utility of 0/23/18. Yup when I fight against a team stacked with 4-5 hybrid sorcs as melee, I bust out my shockfrozen pvp trinket that allows me to not me aoe mezzed when I break their shield, knocked back and forth like a ping pong ball and then stunned at the end for a full duration because resolve in this game is a joke. Many Bothans died to procure the shockfrozen pvp trinket for me all so I could stay on a target for more then 1-2 out of every 10 seconds, due to one stupid hybrid spec in the game. Thank goodness most sorcs are so bad they never even hit me with their ranged instant cast slow. Then again their main nuke auto kites for them. Go to love automatic crap in a game. Shield breaks? Automatic cc. Press one button 80 percent of the time? Automatic kite. Freakin intense gameplay brah. This marauder didn't fair very well. He got stun locked from range and "skill" won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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