I think it's pretty obvious that I simply corrected a Scoundrel who was incorrectly listed as a Gunslinger. Yes - because of some feedback, the stat calculations have been tweaked a little so the healing specs in the same advanced classes don't affect the damage stats and vice versa. You would be surprised at the number of warzones where a healer actually does 0 damage, yet gets credit for kills. BW explained that this is indeed working as intended in 1.2. There are 2 possibilities : 1) You messed up with the stats. -You produce the stats you want to see, and not the real stats. Sorry I can't be a full time law student and check every single field in the database (currently, just over 250,000). There is no possible stat-tracking system based on cumulative performance that can produce a meaningful comparison of someone's worth in a warzone - it's simply not possible because there is no way to track WHEN a player performs an action that might make or break a warzone. The site accomplishes what it set out to do - if you don't like it, don't use it. To the best of my knowledge, all of the warzones have only level 50 players. And the number of records for Vanguards, the least represented class, is 360 - so it's not like the averages are only of a handful of samples. For Sorcerers, it's almost 1800 records.

I will try to post this in French and English... The difference in Novare Coast is due to lack of data from 1.2. Right now, there are only 10 Novare Coast records in the database compared to ~200 of the other three. I don't think there are even players on our server with enough Novare Coast records to be ranked yet. Hopefully, this will change over the next couple weeks. When the dataset from 1.2 gets larger, the stats page will show only 1.2 stats. Currently, the 1.2 dataset is about 900 records - I will probably change the stats page when it reaches ~6000. I obviously don't read the French forums, but feel free to email me with questions at analytics @ blueglowtech . biz Je vais essayer de poster ce en français et en anglais ... La différence de Novare Côte est due au manque de données de 1,2. À l'heure actuelle, il n'ya que 10 dossiers de la côte Novare dans la base de données par rapport à ~ 200 des trois autres. Je ne pense pas il ya même des joueurs sur notre serveur avec suffisamment de dossiers côte à Novare encore classé. Espérons que, cette situation va changer au cours des deux prochaines semaines. Lorsque l'ensemble de données de 1,2 s'agrandit, la page de statistiques affiche seulement 1,2 stats. Actuellement, l'ensemble de données 1.2 est d'environ 900 dossiers - je vais probablement changer la page de statistiques quand il atteint 6000 ~. Je n'ai évidemment pas lu les forums français, mais n'hésitez pas à m'envoyer un email avec des questions à analytics @ blueglowtech . biz

Well obviously not *every* but yes, by and large, that is the case.... note that there are 60% again as many Powertechs as Vanguards. I think a lot of the people that rolled Trooper on our server went Commando in response to the barrage of tracer missiles leaving only a dedicated few to roll Vanguard. And with the massive population imbalance, most Vanguards are forced to tank. Without dual spec, they tank pvp too. Powertechs, on the other hand, have become the server's new favorite toy... I like to call them Pyrotechs because they just run around burning people for massive damage. The stats for average damage are also affected by the threshold, so there are very few Vanguards that actually do more than 200k damage. Currently, 100 vanguard records to 250 Powertech ones that meet this criteria. I'm happy to bundle the code for people, but I will note that it's a lot of work maintaining and inputting data. It's still a work in progress =)

One of the problems is that the ranking system is indeed biased against hybrids. However, it's only biased if you perform a hybrid ROLE. So using your example above, that match with 400k damage and 50k healing will be good for a damage score. But the 200/200 one will provide little bonus for either. Hybrids are largely weeded out for a simple reason - it's hard to perform a hybrid ROLE (again - not a hybrid SPEC) and do well at it because of how the trees are top-heavy. Each stat has a minimum threshold before a record counts towards a rank - for healing and damage, it's 200,000 (60k for protection). Most of the time, this threshold weeds out the hybrids. Rankings are comparative, meaning that you DO get an overall contribution score that works as a multiplier for your actual stats. So hybrid classes that break a threshold benefit from this contribution score as though they had done all of their damage/healing/protection in a single stat type. For example, if you do 250k healing and 250k damage, you will receive a contribution score as though you had done 500k damage OR 500k healing. The extent to which this affects one's overall RANK is unknown, but likely, hybrids are at a large disadvantage - even if this contribution score is relatively high, the relatively low value of a primary stat to those of "pure" role toons will gimp the score in the end. TL;DR - the system just isn't set up to analyze hybrid classes.

Simple explanation - couple Sorcs labeled as Shadows.

Yes, that's a little strange IMO too... It may be a symptom of our population imbalance though. They are submitted via screenshot and then read into text with OCR tech... then uploaded to the site. So yes, the sample is definitely incomplete, but honestly, our sample size is definitely big enough that the inferences and ranks are very accurate. There are outliers, sure, but they usually disappear in a week or two.

This post has lots of good questions... Yes, they do, though it remains to be seen whether changes to their tree will cause a substantial change for them post 1.2. If I'm understanding correctly, you're saying that the average stats by SPEC are tainted because they lump hybrids in with the others... The way the threshold limitation works is that DPS Sages aren't counting towards healing Sages' totals and vice versa. So the average is really the average by class *and role*, not just by class. Actually, the reason for this is that Marauder/Sent gets a lot of kills. You will see, looking at the stats, that the range on the kill lists is not that large - we're talking ranges of less than 10 kills on average over more than twelve thousand records (NC excluded - not enough data there). You will also see that the kill numbers for classes that can do multiple roles is on par with pure dps. For example, in Alderaan, Sage, Shadow, and Gunslinger are all tied at 18, despite the fact that Shadow/GS are both pure dps classes. And also, remember that we're talking about a total difference of 7 average kills per warzone - so despite the disparity of list position, the actual value is not that big a change.

The stats page shows both, though numbers indicate that there is actually almost no difference between pre/post stat values. The exception being that the average objectives score has skyrocketed. Medals, oddly, seem to have remained fairly close. That said, currently, the post-1.2 dataset is not nearly as large as the pre-1.2 (obviously). So the display may change to just post-1.2 stats if it can be determined that there is in fact a substantial change in stat values.

I'm going to respond to this because it's a fairly common objection to the way stats are tracked... Sorry for the delay - I just saw this page when GWT told me there was an incoming link from here. Anyway... This is incorrect. When rank values are calculated, values below a stat threshold are dropped. Those same thresholds are used to calculate the averages on the statistics page. This was fixed in a relatively recent update, so it may have been fixed since this thread was posted (I'm not sure of the date).

This is really more of a bug report than a suggestion. It's almost indisputable that a reworked UI system that allows you to save a UI profile should allow you to save the keybindings. So, of course, now for the 4 bars we have, I have to go through and reset the bindings on all 48 slots because of a missing feature. For 5 toons... click-press, click-press... two hundred forty times. PLEASE put this feature in.

I'm curious who thought up the new commendation system... 800 warzone comms = 200 mercenary + 200 warzone = 1 champ bag. 1 champ bag = 7 champ comms + 15 cent comms + chance for gear. OR, you can buy your champ comms for 120 wz comms each... 7 x 120 = 840 comms. Not to mention the loss of the (negligible) change for gear drop and the (useless) 15 cent comms. Why?

For whatever reason, it seems that your FPS is tied to the IO load of your system, even if the load is not on the same hard drive, or even if it's not loading additional information into memory. For example, occasionally, loading a web page will cause a dramatic drop in my FPS, even though my game runs on a different drive from my boot disk, and I have loads of memory overhead. I haven't done extended testing on this, so this is just kind of armchair troubleshooting. I suspect that BW tried to keep memory usage down by not loading enough of the necessary data into memory, and now it has to be retrieved from the hard drive before it can be given to the graphics card to display. That said, I don't notice swtor causing a large IO burden on my system... so this could be completely out in left field...

Patch notes for latest patch state they have fixed the bug where this turret sometimes fires twice when captured by the imps. However, the other bug with this turret still remains: The East turret (Imp Left / Pub Right) will fire immediately upon finishing its animation, whereas the West turret begins firing after a short delay. Basically, West is like a dot with no initial tick, and East is like a dot that has the initial tick. You might think it's not a big deal, but we recently had a match where the middle turret was only captured within the final hundred points... a little close for comfort. If someone hadn't capped the turret, this bug would have decided the match.

"I am a battlemaster immortal juggernaut. "

I don't play Imp, so I don't know what their analogies are called, and of course, without a combat log it's hard to know for sure... but I've been hit by snipers for 3k+ aimed shots, 3k+ (and 4k+ crit) trickshots. Marauders have some execute move that I think requires building some debuff first, but that will hit well over 4k with up to 5k crits. Sorcs can do it with the equivalents of FIB or TKW, though those usually need to crit to knock it off. Now, I will of course admit that it's hard to tell when an ability is hitting for its normal damage or critting because BW saw fit to omit a combat log from the game (IDK how they properly alpha'ed or beta'ed the game without one... oh wait...). So take it with that grain of salt. But I do know for a fact from seeing the numbers fly up when I've been hit without my bubble up that all of those abilities hit hard enough to burst a bubble. Also, more on bubble maths... First, expertise does not effect bubble strength. That's most important to remember. So it's going to scale poorer and poorer as we get closer to the *real* end game (i.e. where serious pvp'ers all have BiS pvp gear). Second, current BiS will give you a 3564 absorb bubble. I think the old BiS was around 3450. My stats will give me a 3031 absorb bubble. If I pop my 355 power trink, that becomes 3268, and if I had the 380 trink, it would be 3284. This also assumes that I'm talented into the 20% bubble strength increase (which any sage/sorc should be). This assumes that the endgame bubble level is indeed learned at level 50, which curiously, I haven't been able to confirm - if it is learned at a lower level, these values would drop.

Lolwut? My bubble gets knocked off all the time by crits and even some non crits. Mara sand snipers especially. And its not like I have a piddly little bubble. I've got 560 expertise and decent stats. At current gear levels a 3.2k bubble is pretty high. Pve bis will only give you like 3450 I believe. I think I have just past a 3.2k bubble in pvp gear. More maths when I get home.

I'm kind of thinking the other user's post about programming the queues has some merit. It seems to be the case that once there are 8 imps and 8 pubs in the master queue, it pops a WZ for them, and they can go in regardless of how many actually take the queue. This is all well and good, save for one problem. It completely ignores the fact that there may not be replacement pubs in the queue to accept the new pop. This isn't a problem on the imp side because there are so many more people queuing at once. I agree there needs to be some kind of physical check. For example: WZ pops... 8 imps arrive, but only 5 pubs do. Ok... so the opening area barrier only lets the first 5 imps leave the starting zone. Frustrated, the other imps seethe behind the barrier. Now some mechanic like rotating who can pass through the shield in an unbalanced WZ could help, but honestly, I think it would just be better for the extra players to leave and re-queue. But if they stay, as new pubs are added from the queue, the extra imps can leave the starting area. Easy as pie.

I wonder this every WZ I'm in... the healer is marked... he's obviously keeping the other people up... yet with guard, a single person can't burn him down fast enough. It's like... what do you think the mark is for? Decoration?

BAHAAHAAH!!!! 3.5-4.5k with shock... wow. You're kidding me. What's likely happening is you're actually getting hit with a FIB or TKW and because of the travel time for project, you think it's the project doing the damage.

As I understand, the way dots work is not that they do the amount of damage reported on the tooltip, but rather that they tick for the amount indicated by the tooltip and the output is however many ticks actually occur. So for weakened mind - a 15 sec dot dealing 1500 damage ticks (I believe) every 3 secs for 300 damage each time. Increasing this by 6 seconds gives you a 21 second dot that still ticks at 300 damage each time, giving you essentially 2 extra ticks without penalizing the tick value. Alacrity effects the overall time of the dot and the frequency of ticks, but doesn't give you extra ticks. So suppose you have 15% alacrity (which I think isn't outside the realm of possibility...). You would think that your 21 second dot would now finish in 17.85 seconds, giving you an extra tick. However, current theorycrafting so far as I know, is that the dot will shorten to 17.85 sec duration, and will tick every 2.55 seconds instead of every 3 - your dps increase comes from reapplication, not extra ticks. HOWEVER... you're not asking the right question. The right question to ask is whether you get more of a dps increase by investing those points in extending the dots over other applications. So far as I know, the pure dps 13/28 build does in fact extend both dots, I believe at the cost of instant force lift and the self-heal on dot crit.

EDIT - please see this page for the links for builds, etc... they didn't copy to the new thread. I'm going to reiterate what I posted in the first thread (again) with some more specific updates on what people have said in both threads... Honestly, I'm tired of this spout of misinformation... please stop recreating this thread. Assumptions I'm using for math: Willpower: 1737 Force Power + Power: 1442 Crit/Surge/Alacrity: 410/153/346 (values from the spreadsheet BiS.) DPS numbers are an "ideal" fight Rotations are also "ideal" A quick note too about the specs I'm using (I'm not going to go into full TK because I know absolutely nothing about TK past the 4th tier): First - a standard 3/7/31 build for balance dps. Second - a standard 0/13/28 build for hybrid dps. Third - "full cc" build (the dreaded 0/20/21). Fourth - a dps/cc build (0/19/22). And last, a Tidal Force dps build (0/19/22). Up front - here are the updated dps values for these builds: 3/7/31 - 1275 dps 0/13/28 - 1326 (1268 for above build. 1326 build is this one AFAIK.) 0/20/21 (cc) - 1063 0/19/22 (dps) - 1216 0/19/22 (tidal force)- 1216 (Note - a full TK build reports as 1285 dps.) I should also note to maximize for the 1326 build, you must be getting a full 18 second Weakened Mind, as well as forgo the instant force lift and 20% buff to your bubble. More on that later. The OP alleges this list of utilities (#4 missing in original): **** I'm going to add the 2 sec root from Sever Force. Not all of these abilities are available at once. Also, I think we can dispense with #14 because the capacity for self-healing is shared among 3/8 classes in the game (sage, commando, scoundrel), not to mention Guarded By The Force, which is essentially a self-heal given their dots' healing. More notes on bubble. The values above are incorrect. The general thought at the moment is that trauma and expertise do not affect bubble value. The long and short of this is that expertise could not affect the value if trauma also did not (because expertise healing is trauma-ignore, not more throughput). This would make bubble values too low for anyone but BiS geared to get the 2.5k heal medal for a bubble. Current estimates of bubble values are between about 3.3 and 3.7k. The values from the BiS assumptions in the spreadsheet linked above yield a 3310 bubble. Popping a 380 power trinket with those would give you a 3564 bubble. Now, the meat and potatoes... First, it's of critical importance to note that no Sage build can take advantage of all of the above utilities. In fact, without severely gimping one's dps, no Sage build can take advantage of most of them. Second, the two most-complained about talents (the aoe mez and aoe root) are not that useful. The aoe mez is good for one thing - saving the Sage's butt. It does that pretty well, but in doing so, harms the rest of the team because it builds lots of resolve. The aoe root is pretty good in some circumstances, but because it is tied to a knockback, it will not work on targets with full resolve. Third, many of the utilities mentioned don't apply to all classes. Roots and knockbacks are useless against ranged classes who can stand still and nuke you and who never come into knockback range. Almost without exclusion, the Sage's utility talents *being complained about here* are useful against melee - the Sage's natural sworn enemy. Fourth, the OP ignores the balancing game that one must take to have access to all this utility, but still put out decent damage. This point is where I focus most attention. Looking above, you can see the dps values for the different specs. Note that the two cc-heavy specs fall well short of full dps specs (by 20% and 8.3% respectively). Considering the immense loss of the pure cc spec, I'm not really sure there is much point in talking about it - it's a cc machine, nothing else. That said, the fact that a 0/19/22 dps spec retains the cc ability merits consideration. I believe the points I made above concerning the type of target on which the gained cc is useful stand. Sages need tools to escape melee, plain and simple. A good marauder or operative is a real pain in the rear to escape from alive. Personally, I find marauders to be more of a pain than operatives. That said, taking the two aoe cc talents from the TK tree away from Sages probably won't hurt them much. But it probably won't help the enemy teams much either. The root from knockback is useful, yes. The aoe mez is useful to the Sage, but harms the team overall. The question remains then, whether hybrid specs really are that overpowered. The answer, I believe, is - not really. Were they in fact vastly overpowered, I would expect to see a Sage doing 1.5-2x the damage of other classes, and this just is not the case. I will admit that the skill:damage ratio on a sage has a much lower curve than other classes, but after a certain point, skilled players of other classes are on par. On a related note - the discrepancy in DPS seems to widen with gear, so for the majority of players, a hybrid spec is not going to pull as far ahead in pure dps numbers. Also, I'd like to briefly dispel the notion that Sages "mash one button" and faceroll. Whoever started this idea is a complete moron. In a 15-sec rotation, a hybrid Sage will use 6 or 7 different abilities depending on procs. For a full Balance Sage, it's 7. Sages do not stand there and mash TK Throw - doing so is a HUGE dps loss. Last but certainly not least - some info about my Sage: I currently use a 0/13/28 build, and I enjoy the playstyle very much, especially when Imps are dumb and gather in groups for me. That said, I play the more survivable version of the 13/28 build, picking up the self-heal, instant force lift, and bubble buff and taking the lower dps. I'm seriously considering switching to a full Balance build, if for no other reason than to show the nubs out there that hybrids are not really doing crazy damage like everyone claims. Sorry for the wall of text. TL;DR : No dps sage worth their salt would ever be able to access all of the available cc talents. Many of them don't actually apply to non-melee classes. And the dps difference is not that big for hybrid/full-31. ************************************************************ Additional info: I skipped this particular build because it's a complete waste of at least one talent point (in Lightning Storm). The only good way to proc LS is by channeling your aoe (longer cast time than Chain Lightning) or by casting Lightning Strike (same cast time as CL). Alternatively you can chance it by wasting the Wrath proc and hoping for a double proc, but then you lose the 20% buff to your aoe. This build reports as 1208 damage. This one also wastes the point in LS. It actually reports in at less dps at 1196 - you might think it would be more dps, but the proc rate on Lightning Effusion is high enough that it extends the usability of the rotation. In the first build, you would see the highest dps gain by moving that point to Force Horrors (up to 1216 from 1208). In the second build, you would see the highest dps gain by moving that point to Lightning Effusion (up to 1225 from 1196). Hardly - this one reports in at 1226 dps... None of these builds is also particularly useful. We are still talking about roughly 8% drop in dps in order to pick up two extra CC's. One of which hurts your team, and the other is useful only situationally, or against melee. Bottom line is, if you want to be a team player, don't take the cc talents unless that is your specific job on the team. And if it's your job, take them all. Respeccing to take "advantage" of an aoe mez and aoe root is tantamount to a choice to be less effective for your team. Or to put it another way - what are the advantages of taking both of those?? Neither is long enough to keep people off a node while you cap it. Neither is good for stopping other people from capping a node (you have three ranged aoe's for that). If you have enough people on you that you need an aoe root, you are going to be dead anyway. It seems that all these talents do is let you live just a bit longer at the expense of ~8% dps and making it harder for your team to cc things.

7/13/21 sage/sorc can output damage comparable to some of the more defensive hybrid specs while healing for considerably more than a pure dps hybrid. As I recall, a pure dps 13/28 will do about 1325 dps, and a 7/13/21 can squeak in at about 1200 dps. Basically, dot crits and FIB heal you for 1% hp per target struck. Add to that a 10% healing increase from the healing tree, and at 15K hp, you're dropping a 1650 heal on yourself every few seconds (ideally). You have to have lots of crit to make it work, but it certainly does.

I'm going to guess reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.

Agreed (with OP). That said, it's pretty easy to pick up some medals. You should be able to get - at 50 - the 2.5k 5k, 75k, and 150k healing medals. Also very easy to get is killing blow. Easy to pick up 1k and 5k defender on Alderaan... 2.5k damage isn't unreachable. Also forgot the 10 and 25-kill ones from lobbing an aoe somewhere a few times. But 5 medals min per WZ isn't doing that bad for your role really... And it's not like the medals give you that many more commendations.

The Empire has found us! We must rush to fight them by taking the most circuitous route possible in a speeder to go stand behind a wall that hampers our defense!