This Operative's Thoughts on the "Nerf"

[Fallenturtle]

I'm a BM, but I don't have full BM (just a few items thus far).

 

I looked at my #s for a normal damage rotation that happens over about 10 seconds and, assuming half crit, 1650 DPS. (Debilitate and Sever Tendon were included as they pretty much always are used)

 

I looked at a merc BM spamming tracer missiles. Assuming half of theirs crit - 2733 DPS.

 

They probably do outgear me by a bit, but nothing that would account for a 1k DPS difference (even if the crit rate was lowered)

 

Just a thought.

 

I do agree on this point.

 

I'm a BM with Weapons and Half of the gear and on the PVE Side I am Rakatta/Columi geared. I'm also Concealment spec. I'm also classified as a very good player and one of the top operatives on Kaas City. I can also kill people 1v1 in warzones, but only if they are lesser geared and not at full health if it is another Battlemaster in more gear than I currently have. I have almost 11 years MMO Experience starting with Everquest and moving on. *to stop the inevitable whiners that say I have no skill and need to LTP while they sit on their sorcs and mercs and laugh*

 

Tonight, My guild did Hard mode EV. On ALL of the fights, minus soa because we can't down him right now because we have No rading sorcs in the guild and since soa is geared for sorcs we couldn't down him, I felt that I wasn't contributing well to the DPS role as a whole.

 

The raid group's DPS consisted of a Columi geared Marauder, a Columi/Tioneese geared Merc, Myself, and an Assassin also Full columi geared. I'm the best geared in the party and on fights like the Robot, Garj, and Especially Council are just sad for us now.

 

Granted, all 3 of those fights are terrible for melee, because BW has an extreme love for the ranged classes in boss fights (Rancor in KP anyone?), with our lack of closers, our More than 20% damage reduction across the board and our reliance on positional based attacks for a majority of our damage.

 

I made a statement based on my observations that a Merc in Tioneese gear puts out more DPS than my Columi/Rakatta geared op, only to have it proven on the second to last fight in EV where It took me over 6 minutes to kill my mob, and everyone else finished in 2-3 minutes, Granted the mob wasn't hurting me as much. Even the assassin took less time to finish his mob off than It took me to even get my mob down to half health.

 

I'm really hoping that BW will rework our class soon as all 3 of our specs are sub par when compared to each other.

 

Our healing tree has NO synergy with one another, our heals are sub par, our AOE heal is one of the weakest in the game, The list goes on.

 

Concealment got nerfed big time.

 

Lethality only works well in theory and requires more time in energy resource managment than actually DPSing, Also, has a HUGE ramp up timer so bosses like Garj where you have to Mario it up hurts.

 

It honestly makes me sad when I picked the class during the beta because I liked the "rogue" aspect and I heard that the story line is one of the best in the game, Spend all this time grinding huttballs and Hard modes/ops to get the gear only to have our spots replaced by a fresh 50 merc because they have better dps facerolling with their constant 55% armor penetration where as we require more skill and have very sub par dps.

 

I'm hoping that in the near future BW will fix our class and bring it equal to the level of the other DPS classes. I still love my op and will continue to play him.

[FatherOblivion]

I think the thing that sticks in most players' collective craw is that this isn't the result of extensive testing on Bioware's part. One can tell this because most players have not reached 50 and fully geared up yet (plenty have, but not the majority) so it's really impossible to tell if operatives are truly overpowered without players, on a wide scale, sharing the kind of counter tactics necessary to deal with the stealthed opponents advantages. These things take time. A lot more than six weeks.

 

Furthermore these clean values (20, 20, and 1.5) imply an arbitrary choice on Bioware's parts because a mathematically derived result based on inputs from testing would yield floating point values instead. If Bioware expects us to believe these numbers were carefully considered, they really must think their subscribers were born yesterday. So it is perfectly reasonable to assume another source.

 

I obviously don't know the exact source of Bioware's decision, but it wasn't based off of data. Had they waited three months to start with the nerfs, and if they started with a more conservative reduction in effectiveness first, I think more players might have been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. To ask us to do so in the face of evidence otherwise is disingenuous and implies that Bioware has a low opinion of their subscriber base.

 

That's what the evidence says, at least.

 

Edit: Apologies for repeating much of what has been said, I missed that this thread had a third page.

Edited February 5, 2012 by FatherOblivion

[Damukag]

I know you probably didn't intend it but your post comes across as incredibly condescending. "Oh, I'm still doing fine so it's clearly not bad" hasn't and will never be a valid argument in these circumstances. I know some Sorcerers who could probably 'do fine' without ever using their knockback. Does that mean taking it away wouldn't be a huge nerf? Of course not.

 

The class was better before the patch. We weren't reliant on our enemies' CC breakers being on CD before we started. Now we are if we want to be able to do anything more than Shiv+Lacerate. We weren't reliant on a 2 minute CD just to get full damage output on a target (as per your recommendation) and now we are. We were an actual threat that tanks had to be careful about as they stomped into the fray. Now we aren't.

 

Can we still be played? Of course. Are good operatives going to be able to get results like they got before the patch? Probably. But it's going to be more due to luck (no CC breaker) or stupid opponents than it will be to their own skill. That's a nerf where it matters most.

[cefan_essaomofo]

The class was better before the patch. We weren't reliant on our enemies' CC breakers being on CD before we started. Now we are if we want to be able to do anything more than Shiv+Lacerate. We weren't reliant on a 2 minute CD just to get full damage output on a target (as per your recommendation) and now we are. We were an actual threat that tanks had to be careful about as they stomped into the fray. Now we aren't.

 

But it's going to be more due to luck (no CC breaker) or stupid opponents than it will be to their own skill. That's a nerf where it matters most.

 

Bingo.

[Deviltreh]

Cars with square tires and no engine are viable too.

You can still push them along nicely if the road is made of halfcircles.

 

 

Yep, totally viable.

[Papasan]

BW will not look at this class until they are done with the cycle of nerfs they are doing now. i saw someone did the math somehwere and the nerf is pretty much a 50% dmg reduction which is massive. not going to whine about it, its been discussed enough.

 

i guess they will come around to fixing it someday, shame everyone is playing sage/sorc by then

[WDSslider]

After everything that has been discussed in this and other forms I am a little surprised that we haven't heard from a developer saying these changes were made for whatever reason so we can discuss them and possibly do our own math to help fix this issue. It is pretty sad that we are spending the time to have these conversations and doing our part instead of playing the game and we still get 0 acknowledgment. Even Warcraft developers admitted when they made mistakes and promised another look from time to time. Is that such an unreasonable request, we are just asking for some testing and some data to confirm that the changes were or were not not too much and that our class is now playing as "intended". There is a common theme in this thread especially and that is if we are geared to the nuts and we blow every cooldown we have we can kill someone similarly geared if they do not have cooldowns and are not as skilled... BG's aren't 1vs1 I doubt they will come out with 1vs1 arena's where skill would take place of class short falls. Also all of you who are talking about the class not being so bad at full BM gear think about being -20% away from your BM gear and still getting owned because you got a lot of your valor from the abilities that you were given in the form of medals and MVP's as well as actually helping your team to win instead of hunting down a single person in the corner afk. You are very misguided if you think you would be in the same place in the game had this class come out of beta with the abilities as they are right now. Not only would you have leveled slower, you would not have the valor you do now and you also would have been looked over more often than not for groups if another dps was available. If the game does start to have a sense of difficulty the majority of average players playing OPS will have a harder time getting end game content complete simply because of a seemingly small change like this. The changes, needed or not have directly affected our ability to be successful at every aspect of the game because of one aspect of the game and that is where I have a HUGE issue. I guess we shouldn't have excelled so well at PVP because if we played average there would have never been a reason to change this great class. I believe with all my heart that these changes did not come from testing and actual data, they came about because other people were getting killed in a BG every once in awhile.

[Ikagawa]

@WDSslider: http://writingcenter.unc.edu/resources/handouts-demos/writing-the-paper/paragraphs Edited February 5, 2012 by Ikagawa

[Rainsfords]

On a target 1v1 with an empty resolve bar give this a try. Acid Blade>Relic>Adrenal>Hidden Strike>Cloaking Screen>Acid Blade>Hidden Strike>Debilitate>Acid Blade>Backstab>Shiv>Laceration.

 

This one tidbit does two things. First, it shows the ineptitude of the OP (why would you ever Debilitate after Hidden Strike and waste the GCD?). Secondly, it really summarizes why this nerf was so bad. This little rotation involves us burning a defensive cooldown to try to maximize damage in a spamtastic way that you're going to be left with no energy by the time it's done. Even doing that, there's a very high chance that the enemy will live if they are equally geared and there's no chance you'll kill the target if they are getting healed. After that's done, what do you do? You can't run and you have no energy. You're basically going to eat 3-4 attacks from a BH or sorc and it's back to the graveyard.

 

Can my Battlemaster Op still wreck people? Sure, but any non-crit damage is shrugged off and you're completely useless against any sort of organized team. There's videos of Commandos going 0/11/0 in green PvE gear and doing real well, just like there's still videos of fully geared Operatives doing ok. The fact that we can sometimes do well doesn't make up for the fact that we are overshadowed by ~EVERY~ other AC. I don't know why a new player would roll an Operative anymore, since sorc/merc heal and dps better and Sin is a much better stealther.

[SkillzKillz]

The fact that BW Dosent give a $hit about the matter makes me unsubscribe because they are not givng one ounce of there attention to the Operative threads. They honestly can give 2 $hits.

[Ahebish]

This is something I just had to get off of my chest. Another Operative on my server recently told me he was rerolling to another class because of this "over nerf." The following is my response to those who feel the same way about Operatives after this so-called over nerf:

 

Anyone that thinks Concealment Operative's are useless in PvP aren't doing it right. Either a lack of skill or gear, or both. We just got away with the single best "nerf" we could have ever hoped for and the forums are running rampant with cries of "we suck now" and "how could you do this to us."

 

Let's go over the details:

 

1. Overall damage was reduced by lowering Hidden Strike by approximately 20%. Everyone thinks this is something to cry about. Were 7k+ crits pre 1.1.1 a little crazy with no setup AND from stealth? Yes, even against a well geared battlemaster player we were able to hit for 6.5k+ without shields or defensive abilities up on the target. Whether or not we are supposed to be a "burst" class does not mean 4 or 5 shotting someone with 500+ expertise should happen. - All the while Jedi Guardians doing 9k crits on AOE on multiple targets simultaneously - Not OP at all. Carry on.

 

Response to 1. Proper use of adrenals and relics on an unprotected player (i.e. no shield or defensive abilities on target at time of Hidden Strike) will still net a well geared operative 4.5-5.5k Hidden Strikes. This is by no means low damage. Just because you can't ROFLPWN someone in 2 hits or survive as many 2v1's does not mean you are useless. It means you need to learn how to use your other abilities properly. - 4.5-5k crits with what gear Battlemaster gear? While it's ok for sorcs jedi guardians to throw out 6-9k crits.... Don't be rediculous. Now lets factor in all the other things that make other classes overpowered.... Such as DPS spec'd Sorcs outhealing our DPS (not spike our DPS) making them unkillable. Now let's factor in BH/Troopers with extreme resilliance to damage factored in with 3-4k crits on spamable instant attacks. Now let's factor in no gap closers at all for IA's How many Gap closers/cc's do all the other classes have? Let's factor in no CC/Stun immunity for IA's... Let's factor in 4m melee range which is all of our damage and DPS. I have a BH and I giggle at opertives and soundrels when they knock me down because it tickles most of the time, then I proceed to kite them with my lowest damage skill until they die. Let's factor in all the knockbacks - 1 knockback and a scoundrel/operative is effectively useless in any pvp fight.

 

2. Jarring Strike stun reduced to 1.5 seconds. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN THIS IS A BUFF. I REPEAT THIS IS A BUFF, NOT A NERF. - Why is it a buff because you can't count to 3? Let's evaluate GCD's effects on 3 second knockdown vs 1.5 second knockdown. In 3 seconds: 1. Hidden strike + 1.5 sec GCD + back stab + 1.5sec GCD = 2 hits and you are no longer in the knockdown state. After the nerf. Hidden strike + 1.5 GCD and you are no longer in the knock down state. Count it 1, 2, 3. It's not hard and you learned how to do it in Kindergarten.

 

Response to 2. Now that Jarring Strike no longer fills resolve this opens multiple new opportunities to dominate a target. On a target 1v1 with an empty resolve bar give this a try. Acid Blade>Relic>Adrenal>Hidden Strike>Cloaking Screen>Acid Blade>Hidden Strike>Debilitate>Acid Blade>Backstab>Shiv>Laceration. If they aren't dead by then they have a healer on them and you are on the wrong target. - Resolve is still broken - You can be stunlocked with a full 100% resolve bar... This further nerf's operatives because ALL CLASSES can now chain stun. When an operative/scoundrel has to rely on it to do anything to survive. And even then our DPS is crap at best unless we have full BM or equivalent. Oh wait I forgot equivalent gear is yet a further nerf if it is PVE gear... Because of the expertise bonus on PVP gear that extra damage you think you are getting in PVE gear is useless against an expertise stacked PVP'er. But what do I know I only PVP every day 10+ hours/day.

 

3. Acid Blades armor penetration reduced to 30%. This is the worst part of the whole thing but by no means destroys the class. This part of the nerf has a much larger impact on PvE DPS and was a questionable change. - Ya let's ignore the fact BH Railshot has a 90% armor penetration.... Let's not pay ANY attention to these minor details shall we? Let's ignore the fact Operatives get nerf'd while marauders are getting a boost in the next patch. - Welcome to World of Warcraft 2.0 - Care of Biozard

 

Response to 3. The nerf to Acid Blade by no means makes us useless in PvP. Does it take a couple more hits to kill a well geared tank in a warzone? Yes. No in fact a tank can kite you to death especially if it is a ranged tank. L2P. Is it harder to pull over 500,000 dmg in warzones? Yes, but no where near impossible. Is it making it so that NO ONE is killable and you just get laughed at when you try? Yes as a matter of fact it is. Obviously you have never played an operative and fought against geared Sorcs who outheal our DPS, or BH/troopers who take little to no damage and can kite you to death. Not for me, but if you answered yes then you might want to re-read 1 and 2 above. Or maybe you need to be more practical and quit comparing your Rank 60 Valor BM gear to people who don't have it. Here's the thing, without gear every class in the game is more than PVP viable. Without gear Operatives are a non factor. Try taking off your BM gear and use PVE gear then come and tell us how it goes for you against other BMs.

 

This is barely a nerf for those of us that put in the time to learn our class and gear up appropriately. If you're Valor Rank 30 with 2 pieces of Champion gear then you shouldn't be able to go toe to toe with ANY full champ or battlemaster player. Period. And, yet I can, why? Because I'm not a scrub from wow. I've even been called overpowered after the nerf by people who have 3 times the expertise I do. This nerf just makes it so I have to blow every CD I have in order to beat them, where other classes are not forced into this because of the nerf. Put the time in and get your gear. This should not discourage you, but make you want to get better. You will get better with time, but being overly impatient seems to be the way of the world now adays. - This is not an excuse for lack of skill or a justifiable reason to accept the nerf. Gear makes bad players good, while making good players unkillable due to class balance and experience. This will not fix the "balance" everyone complained about with operatives. Here's a better suggestion: Make Centurian gear easier to get for new level 50's because new level 50's are getting face planted in the 50's bracket because of tools like you whom are probably both full BM geared but no logical or common sense at all to understand analyze and decipher what balance really is.

 

You will not succeed at something you do not fully understand, and don't deserve to succeed at it unless you put the time in to understand it. -By your logic operatives didn't need a nerf at all then. Because all the people complaining never played operative were low level undergeared and display the same lack of understanding towards balance as you do. This game isn't going to hold your hand the whole way. At some point you need to step up and realize all the crying in the world won't make you a better player. - No it won't hold your hand but this nerf is exactly what it's doing and if you ever played wow you'd realize wow is a cluster ef of inexperienced low skilled players who want to be spoonfed.

 

To BioWare:

 

Thank you for separating the boys from the men. The "nerf" to Operatives has made our already small community even smaller, but you have given us a truly fun class to play. Those that still refuse to understand that 3 shotting someone, while incredibly fun, is not something that requires skill whatsoever, will never get it.

 

Thanks for the stunlock! - you mean the stunlock that all classes get even the overpowered classes like BH/Trooper/Sage/Sorc? And the fact the resolve bar is still broken and doesn't stop varying players from stunlocking you even though you have a 100% resolve bar?

 

- Donut (Belgoth's Beacon)

 

P.S: To all who will respond with hate. Please deposit pitchforks and torches in the bins provided. I am immune to you.

 

You may be immune to logical thinking and common sense, but people like you I enjoy killing the most in PVP. I hope to see you out there so I can show you how a real operative plays without gear compared to someone who's only good because of their gear. Can't wait for cross realm PVP Q's.

[wiazabi]

(geared scoundrel / op) > (not / barely geared)

(geared scoundrel / op) < (geared)

 

Ofc we still win the odd fights against geared people but who knows which player is good with all the instant bm's from ilum, but i can tell you this if your a good player with your scoundrel / op then you can do better on any other class atm.

 

 

And one of the things they needed to change is being able to chain 2x shoot first with DA, yet they didnt, we just got nerf to opener and sustained dmg with 0 in return, no answer as to why (cause ppl died to fast isnt a reason when other classes could/can do it).

 

 

So now its basicly a hunt for the undergeared 13k hp nukers/sniper,14-15k heavy healers, 16-17k tanks.

Edited February 5, 2012 by wiazabi

[TheStrika]

I think the main issue at hand, is lets say you put in all your hard work 100% of the time, and manage to be relevant in a wz against geared players. If you had a sorcerer, that same amount of effort would have you dominate a wz.

 

I think some problems could be solved by putting the armor pen back at 50%.

[Irishaide]

It was pretty good read, but somethings I do agree with and some I just don't at all. I do agree a bit with Ahebish amd some of his comments.

 

In my opinion, and Im sure others have stated it before, the reason we were nerfed so hard was because ~90% of players cried on the forum and Im sure ~60% of those crying were Sorcs/Sages, making them the loudest and most likely the half the Sub base(These percentages are pulled out of head for no purpose). But basically the majority won and will keep winning as long as they have over half the Sub base.

 

As to the Marauder/Sentinel buff it was kinda of needed, when DPS Guardians were fairing a hell of a lot better.

 

Just my 2 cents, we are bound to be the least played/liked class and we will just have to live with it or quit >.>.

[Caelrie]

I played a rogue through vanilla WoW so I am very at home with this class.

This class is nowhere near what a WoW rogue is. There's so much missing utility it's nothing but a pale imitation.

 

Rogues have a plethora of stealth openers to use depending on the situation. Ops have 1. Rogues have several kinds of poison to use to give different utility. Ops have 1. Rogues have significant self-healing that can't be interrupted. Ops have a crapp HOT and shield. Ops do have a casted heal that can be used on others so that part might be a wash. Rogue evasion lasts three times as long as as Ops version. Rogues have sprint. Ops have nothing. Rogues have shadowstep. Ops have nothing. Rogues have disarm. Ops have nothing.

 

In short, Ops have very little that rogues don't have... but rogues have a ton of utility Ops don't have. It's a bad comparison. The Op is a very poor rogue indeed.

[Optimism]

2. Jarring Strike stun reduced to 1.5 seconds. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN THIS IS A BUFF. I REPEAT THIS IS A BUFF, NOT A NERF.

 

Response to 2. Now that Jarring Strike no longer fills resolve this opens multiple new opportunities to dominate a target. On a target 1v1 with an empty resolve bar give this a try. Acid Blade>Relic>Adrenal>Hidden Strike>Cloaking Screen>Acid Blade>Hidden Strike>Debilitate>Acid Blade>Backstab>Shiv>Laceration. If they aren't dead by then they have a healer on them and you are on the wrong target.

 

With that setup, you better make sure you can kill that target. My mercenary was already shrugging off the operative opener before these nerfs. If you really need to use cloaking screen for offensive by all means. Some people are getting the idea to break out of the Debilitate stun anyway. After using debilitate and cloak screen, you're left with a shield probe where a single tracer missle can almost elimintate, and a 3 second evasion which has no effect vs sorcerer's and bounty hunters. After that, you're an easy kill by anyone who has an idea how to kite.

 

And pretty much what Ahebish said I share similar thoughts.

[Auxili]

My mercenary was already shrugging off the operative opener before these nerfs. If you really need to use cloaking screen for offensive by all means. Some people are getting the idea to break out of the Debilitate stun anyway. After using debilitate and cloak screen, you're left with a shield probe where a single tracer missle can almost elimintate, and a 3 second evasion which has no effect vs sorcerer's and bounty hunters. After that, you're an easy kill by anyone who has an idea how to kite.

 

This This

[Sirialknah]

This class is nowhere near what a WoW rogue is. There's so much missing utility it's nothing but a pale imitation.

 

Rogues have a plethora of stealth openers to use depending on the situation. Ops have 1. Rogues have several kinds of poison to use to give different utility. Ops have 1. Rogues have significant self-healing that can't be interrupted. Ops have a crapp HOT and shield. Ops do have a casted heal that can be used on others so that part might be a wash. Rogue evasion lasts three times as long as as Ops version. Rogues have sprint. Ops have nothing. Rogues have shadowstep. Ops have nothing. Rogues have disarm. Ops have nothing.

 

In short, Ops have very little that rogues don't have... but rogues have a ton of utility Ops don't have. It's a bad comparison. The Op is a very poor rogue indeed.

 

 

We totally are the rogues of SWTOR though, and you have to remember, WoW has 3 expansions, do you think Rogues had the amount of crap they did in vanilla that they have now? so we just have to wait and see, if BW actually wants people to enjoy it, they'll fix it n' quit listening to the Casuals who piss and moan because theres a class that can rock them, until we get more stuns/utilities and what not, we NEED heavy burst, because if we can take a target down in 3.6seconds, we're dead

[Sirialknah]

everyone should watch world of roguecraft (7years old) and see why getting stunned to death is not fun at and all and takes zero skill. why bioware has such a hardon for one of the most hated mechanics in mmos is beyond me. hey look at me im 2 feet away from you but im invisible. stun,stun,stun you die lolz. seriously? again? /unsubscribe...

 

your kinda retarded arn't you, because stunlocking is a SKILL, not just some ******** some idiot can hop on a rogue and do, i have friends who could PLAY with people before they killed em', watch Mercader, he is the greatest rogue ever, and thats what rogues are about, their SUPPOSE to be annoying, their SUPPOSE to keep you locked down, and mostly, THEIR SUPPOSE TO BUSRT YOUR FACE THROUGH A DOOR!

[Ikagawa]

your kinda retarded arn't you, because stunlocking is a SKILL, not just some ******** some idiot can hop on a rogue and do, i have friends who could PLAY with people before they killed em', watch Mercader, he is the greatest rogue ever, and thats what rogues are about, their SUPPOSE to be annoying, their SUPPOSE to keep you locked down, and mostly, THEIR SUPPOSE TO BUSRT YOUR FACE THROUGH A DOOR!

 

"You're". "They're". "Burst". "Kind of". "Aren't". "That's". Also, your entire post is one long run-on sentence.

 

Let's not throw around "retarded" again, okay?

[Faresan]

As an operative healer I basically laugh at any operative trying to solo me. Other classes not so much. Also, when someone mentions you can stun lock someone to death after a good 6s it is generally not a good thing. I find if you spend that amount of time in huttball or especially voidstar or alderaan around an objective you're already getting blown up.

[Masahiko]

 

Response to 2. Now that Jarring Strike no longer fills resolve this opens multiple new opportunities to dominate a target. On a target 1v1 with an empty resolve bar give this a try. Acid Blade>Relic>Adrenal>Hidden Strike>Cloaking Screen>Acid Blade>Hidden Strike>Debilitate>Acid Blade>Backstab>Shiv>Laceration. If they aren't dead by then they have a healer on them and you are on the wrong target.

 

I like how you dumped 2 cds into a target to assure a kill and think that is not a nerf. You should be worried when you dump 2 cds and cant kill a low armor target given equal gear level.

 

Balancing a game around the idea that a buff is dumping 2 cds into someone so they die is possible the WORST design ive seen since wow rogues were balanced around all of their CDS, and to some extent still are.

 

Edit: Its still nerf because if you did that pre nerf you wouldn't need the rest of that chain usually.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Masahiko

[Masahiko]

everyone should watch world of roguecraft (7years old) and see why getting stunned to death is not fun at and all and takes zero skill. why bioware has such a hardon for one of the most hated mechanics in mmos is beyond me. hey look at me im 2 feet away from you but im invisible. stun,stun,stun you die lolz. seriously? again? /unsubscribe...

 

Do you even realize HOW GOOD those guys were at playing rogues? They werent some random scrub noob saying LOOK AT ME AND WHAT I CAN DO.

 

You will find those people in every game. The person who knows how to use their class the the fullest extent almost to the point of being OP.

 

Edit: they also wanted to show how awful the Warlock was in comparison.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Masahiko

[cefan_essaomofo]

This class is nowhere near what a WoW rogue is. There's so much missing utility it's nothing but a pale imitation.

 

Rogues have a plethora of stealth openers to use depending on the situation. Ops have 1. Rogues have several kinds of poison to use to give different utility. Ops have 1. Rogues have significant self-healing that can't be interrupted. Ops have a crapp HOT and shield. Ops do have a casted heal that can be used on others so that part might be a wash. Rogue evasion lasts three times as long as as Ops version. Rogues have sprint. Ops have nothing. Rogues have shadowstep. Ops have nothing. Rogues have disarm. Ops have nothing.

 

In short, Ops have very little that rogues don't have... but rogues have a ton of utility Ops don't have. It's a bad comparison. The Op is a very poor rogue indeed.

 

1) I never said it was the same just that I am at home with the class.

2) I was a raid specced combat rogue, I only used cheap shot. IE Hidden strike.

3) Poions in vanilla WoW, uhm I used mind numbing and crippling. Hardly part of the issue here dont know why you brought it up.

4) Rogues in vanilla could not heal what are you talking about?

5) the rest of your points are not relevant at all as I said i played in Vanilla.

 

 

Soooo I am not sure what your point is at all except to look stupid talking to me.

 

(Edited in)

By raid spec I mean I PvPed hardcore with that spec, no MOD, no BS, no Ambush, no Prep, and blind was rarely used since it was 20g+ for the reagent stacks. A smart player always comes from behind I had no need for MOD. I was on Frostwolf I played with Eryx, if you don't know who he is look him up.

Edited February 7, 2012 by cefan_essaomofo

[cefan_essaomofo]

We totally are the rogues of SWTOR though, and you have to remember, WoW has 3 expansions, do you think Rogues had the amount of crap they did in vanilla that they have now? so we just have to wait and see, if BW actually wants people to enjoy it, they'll fix it n' quit listening to the Casuals who piss and moan because theres a class that can rock them, until we get more stuns/utilities and what not, we NEED heavy burst, because if we can take a target down in 3.6seconds, we're dead

 

Thank you for actually reading what I said unlike that moron.