deltaminus Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 Position yourself well and knockbacks won't kill you. By the way, following your logic, grapple is overpowered.. shall we nerf that too? Aside from grappling people into your own team's spawn, where you risk getting kicked for afk, all other uses of grapple also carry a considerable amount of risk. Standing next to fire/poison opens you up to being knocked face first into it instead. Pulling someone to their death while you fall off a bridge, well you're also gonna die from it. Mind you, I've said this when that one guy tried to derail this thread with operatives and stealth and I'll say it again, if you find said mechanic problematic and imbalanced, start a thread about it. There is no counterplay available for knockbacks, yet there is for other cc. I'd like some for of counterplay, my personal preference would be to some sort of self root. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venilator Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) Nooo, it's counterable... by walking! An ability every class has! :3 That isn't a counter. especially since if they are on that ledge you have no way to get near them. If you were smart the actual counter to the sniper is to ignore them and just walk away... You do not go after a sniper alone or they will kill you if you try to "WALK" towards them. Edited February 4, 2012 by CommunitySupportEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltaminus Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) Stealth Instant Activates your stealth generator, making you and your companion difficult to detect. Movement speed is reduced to 85% of normal while in stealth. Most hostile actions and taking cover will break Stealth. Your companion will not react to enemy attacks while in stealth. Nothing there about being invisible, just hard to see. You're biased and won't admit it. You're just angry because of how my thread might affect your class. Edited February 4, 2012 by CommunitySupportEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treplos Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 How many people must disagree before you throw your post of a bridge in voidstar? Btw, just so i know... do operatives get steath? Now stealth is really OP. There's no counter to it unless I see you - but then, you're not stealth anymore because I can see you just when I was about to use a counter for it. Stealth makes all my skills worthless as it is un-counterable. Sins / Shadows have stealth, knockback, AND Force Speed. lol Also, Stealth is so broken in this game that is it not even funny. Now, go back under your bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diomades Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 That isn't a counter. especially since if they are on that ledge you have no way to get near them. Besides walking, you mean? Up the ramp, right up to them! Ta-da! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diomades Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) SOrry just because it doesn't say "YOU CAN'T BE SEEN!" doesn't mean you CANT BE SEEN. Read the tooltip again. In fact, let me point it out to you. "Difficult to detect". Not impossible to detect. Difficult. Right there. By Bioware. Not impossible to detect, but difficult to detect. Edited February 4, 2012 by CommunitySupportEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibonk Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) Hello everyone. As you may have noticed, we have removed a significant number of posts from this thread, and we would like to remind everyone of the rules of conduct in the forums. No insults, name calling, or personal attacksPlease stay on topic.Please express your opinion and thoughts in a constructive, respectful manner.If someone violates the Rules of Conduct, please flag it instead of replying to it.Keep in mind that everyone has different viewpoints. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're trolling. If you believe someone is trolling, please use the Flag function to report their post. That being said, we ask that you please keep your posts civil, on topic and respectful otherwise we will have to close this thread. Thank you. Edited February 4, 2012 by CommunitySupportEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Gallows Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 So what? On my scoundrel I have no knock backs and yet knock backs don't bother me that much. I know they are in the game, so when I fight I position myself so that the knockback doesn't make me go where I don't want to go. Besides it's not an issue... stop whining about everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGolubets Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) So what? On my scoundrel I have no knock backs and yet knock backs don't bother me that much. I know they are in the game, so when I fight I position myself so that the knockback doesn't make me go where I don't want to go. Besides it's not an issue... stop whining about everything. Wait... think a bit.. nothing comes to your mind? try again, harder! A tip: you play republic. If you still didn't get it: we, Empire, play Huttball 9 out of 10 WZs. And knockbacks there mean much much more. Edited February 4, 2012 by DGolubets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venilator Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Read the tooltip again. In fact, let me point it out to you. "Difficult to detect". Not impossible to detect. Difficult. Right there. By Bioware. Not impossible to detect, but difficult to detect. Disingenuous.. Here is an OP PvP video.. I guess this guy's stealth must be bugged.... Amazing really how no one attacks him while stealthed... I mean from what you are your ilk have been saying you might as well not stealth since everyone can see you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadNewzzz Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Wait... think a bit.. nothing comes to your mind? try again, harder! A tip: you play republic. If you still didn't get it: we, Empire, play Huttball 9 out of 10 WZs. And knockbacks there mean much much more. Yes nerf knockbacks with letting us play something other then huttball, i'm so tried of it. I'm on a PVP server and not a RP server so why can't it be imp vs imp on Voidstar or alderaan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grooboggle Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Knockbacks need to stay in because they are hilarious. I know for damn sure when I see all the defenders running out on the bridge in voidstar they are coming to try it and nothing is funnier than sending them to their deaths first as we all strive to not have our backs to the edge. Who hasn't set up stuns and pushed someone in the fire or poison in Huttball....hell sometimes I do this instead of something more effective simply because its fun. Also if you are sage and get knocked off you can even use your pull ally with some hilarious results . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDoubleMarth Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I might support knockbacks adding more resolve. However if the main complaint is getting one shotted off bridges, I'd say that's a pretty weak argument. In my experience with voidstar the time spent on the bridge is limited to running along it to defend/attack the doors. I have no idea why you'd be constantly having battles on the bridge. Knockbacks don't need to be altered for what happens during 10 seconds of a voidstar match. As for acid traps in Huttball, it's pretty easy to position yourself so that the person's knockback will not knock you into the pool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icecrypt Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 it is indeed a bit redicilous the amount of knockbacks, but to add MORE knockbacks would just be even sillier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltaminus Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) Disingenuous.. Here is an OP PvP video.. I guess this guy's stealth must be bugged.... Amazing really how no one attacks him while stealthed... I mean from what you are your ilk have been saying you might as well not stealth since everyone can see you... Sir, you claimed you played an Operative when clearly you don't. The times when the person would most likely be spotted in stealth he was either a. using Sneak or b. being ignored by his enemies who where tunneling one of his team mates. For example at 3:04 as he's about to open up on his opponent you can see he used sneak to increase his stealth level for a short duration. Stealthers are not permenently invisible, they do indeed have moves that temporarily improve the effectiveness of their stealth. Sneak Instant Cooldown: 60s Increases your stealth level by 15 for 8 seconds. Only usable in stealth mode. I'm at a loss as to what this has to do with knockdowns and their lack of counterplay. Stealthers on the other hand can be seen if you are close to one, they do indeed have moves that temporarily improve their stealth. Intelligent use of AoE moves will break stealthers out of stealth if you've caught but a glimps of them, which is more then possible. Going into stealth or coming out of it will not kill someone over the duration of one CD. Knockbacks on the other hand can be used to one shot kill people, yes this is the worst case scenario, yet there is no comparable worst case scenario in regards to stealth. Protip; play with sound turned on. Sometimes you will know things are happening near you, like an operative healing themselves behind a box, because you can hear the skill. I don't even need to see my opponents to find them, sometimes all it takes is hearing them. Edited February 4, 2012 by deltaminus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aedgyth Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Why sages/sorcs will never be nerfed, they honestly think that a AoE knockback/interupt on a 20 seconds CD is not over powered in this game.... and come out in numbers vehemently trying to defend it (which should raise suspicion in itself). As for trying to compare it to stealth, don't Inq/Cons also have a stealth tree AND the AoE knockback ? sorry. theres no way to improve being bad. Using knockbacks to knock people off bridges and scaffolding is not OP. At all. That's how the skill is supposed to be used. Positioning is the counter to a knockback. It's not like it knocks you in a random direction. If you can get a situational one shot with your knock back, what is the problem? because all classes aren't the same. because they're not overpowered, they're great on huttball, that's about it. An example of an absurdly overpowered ability would be stealth, it's been so broken in mmos that the classes that use it have to be balanced in such a way that they would be near unplayable without it. But then in regards to huttball, a pvp build powertech (esp the tanking build with the root attached) basically have insta kill on a 35s cd in that warzone, they have no knockbacks either though How many people must disagree before you throw your post of a bridge in voidstar? Btw, just so i know... do operatives get steath? Now stealth is really OP. There's no counter to it unless I see you - but then, you're not stealth anymore because I can see you just when I was about to use a counter for it. Stealth makes all my skills worthless as it is un-counterable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDoubleMarth Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I'd rather have an operative's awesome cc than a situational one hit kill on voidstar. Operatives are great for helping to cap doors. You have Tranquilizer, hidden strike, flashbang, and debilitate. try thinking less about killing and more about how your skills can claim objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltaminus Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 I'd rather have an operative's awesome cc than a situational one hit kill on voidstar. Operatives are great for helping to cap doors. You have Tranquilizer, hidden strike, flashbang, and debilitate. try thinking less about killing and more about how your skills can claim objectives. This thread isn't supposed to be Operative vs. X class, that sort made itself into this thread on account of the fact that Operatives are one of the few without a knockback. As great as an Operative might be in Voidstar, they are no where close to as good as classes with knockbacks are in Huttball. Stacking knockbacks in Huttball can make it neigh impossible for the enemy team to score, the biggest impact stealthers really have in Voidstar isn't capping doors (unless the other team is playing poorly and not guarding both doors), instead it is in defending the guy trying to set up the bomb after the defenders have been killed. Still, the impact knockbacks have in Huttball are much more pronounced then having a stealther is in Voidstar. Stealthers profit off bad play, while knockbacks punish everyone equally regardless of skill. As no counterplay is available when facing knockbacks, and all you can do is hope no one knocks you off that scaffold the next time you attempt to run across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtfnonamefree Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Standing "in" the enemy about to knock you back effectively counters it. Also, resolve and cc-immunity abilities (e.g. force shroud). /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdragonragexx Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Negative. One knockback in Huttball is enough to send the ball carrier off the scaffold. One knockback in Voidstar is enough to kill someone. Again, the cc breaker does nothing for this... had it been a stun or some other cc on the other hand, teamwork would have been helpful. You are meant to pass the ball and play as a team in huttball and not carry it from the center to the goal. That would be the hard way. There are knockbacks and there are also pulls. Part of the game. Nothing OP about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lasarith Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) Most cc in this game can be countered with the intelligent use of resolve. When one uses a hard cc like a stun or a blind they still need to invest a cd into it's use for little to no damage. Knockbacks cannot be countered by resolve and will not be interrupted by using one's cc breaker. Knockbacks can situationaly be used as a one hit kill by knocking people off of a bridge, one cd and your enemy is dead. Bioware please fix. Please give all classes a knockback or a way to intelligently counterplay them. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edit; The following is a cut+paste of a post I made later in this thread and is what I'd love to see Personally I'd like to see my cc breaker affect knockbacks so I can instantly interrupt my movement in mid flight, or have one of my moves modified in some way so that they might root me to the ground or pull me towards an enemy target. A self root could be made to be balanced, as it could easily be given a fixed duration. I'd save myself from getting knocked back at the price of being stuck or severely slowed for x period of time. As an operative I'd see it as being something that might have the condition of being used from the cover position. For the Hole 15 Minutes of huttball , i Seemed to be the Only one with Any sence As to Where the ball carrier was, And used Kockback to Throw the ball carrier/s off the Bridge (Once in the Nick of time) From Scoring or we Would have lost 6/0 in 2-3 Minute's, Instead of 0/0 I Think they relly hate,ed me With A passion that game. Edited February 4, 2012 by Lasarith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assaultrooper Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Counter to Knockbacks= Respec Advanced Prototype and turn hydrolycs overdrive on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batslav Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 i know beign throwed off the bridge is annoying but theres counter to it use knocback first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltaminus Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 i know beign throwed off the bridge is annoying but theres counter to it use knocback first Unless you're one of the few classes that doesn't have one. And lacks a pull/gap closer to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomnipotent Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 The counter to knockbacks is to not play like crap. Sorry that you actually have to pay attention to your surroundings in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts