Vannila WoW vs SWTOR

[Truvu]

Almost everyone who is ragging on Vanilla WoW in this thread fails to consider one thing; There was no real alternative at the time. Even in the state WoW was in at launch it still revolutionized the MMO genre and made it accessable, this is why it was many people's first MMO and also the reason why it's subscriptions stayed strong in the years following it's release.

 

Personally I think the OP has a point though. To me SWTOR's planets seem utterly heartless and simply just 1s and 0s rather than a dynamic, living world like WoW. To be fair WoW has fallen to this as well in recent years.. Hence why most of us are here, looking for another living and dynamic world in which to escape to. Pity we didn't find it.

[EscVelocity]

Just look at the forums in Vanilla WoW from back around its release date.

 

December 2004 about a month after game's release date (US):

 

General:

http://web.archive.org/web/20041127093213/http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/board.aspx?fn=wow-general

 

Technical Support:

http://web.archive.org/web/20041229091241/http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/board.aspx?fn=wow-tech-support

 

 

I see dozens of threads titled similar to many here are. FPS/Lag issues, Threats to cancel, stuck issues, bugs, unacceptable blizz, etc...

 

 

I do agree with you though that I think Bioware has some issues in certain areas, but they make up for it in others. It's all a matter of opinion. For instance I think the lack of music sucks, but the amount of scenes in quests with voice is great.

 

Bioware has not made an MMO before.

Blizzard did not take all of their years of experience, training, and programmer's knowledge from trial and error, and hand it over to Bioware to use for developing this game.

Edited February 3, 2012 by EscVelocity

[Morpholinium]

You do realize that this happened because despite the lag, despite being stuck in loot animations, despite knowing you may get kicked or the world itself my explode... people still kept trying to get in because the game had that kind of hold on people right from the start.

 

Its why despite the hardware failures in the beginning it went on to become the most popular MMO ever made by far, it is still in a league of its own.

 

And don't give me this crap about "no raids" Molten Core was there day 1, 40 people just didn't have the gear to get past the first 2 giants for a long time. Ony was there too, but she was key locked so it was hard to find people who had the key and the gear to even get past the guards.

 

A lot of you people sound like people who weren't there at launch but have only heard about it.

 

The biggest thing that kept me in those very early days was the refreshing feeling I got every time I died and was only out a few minutes run as a ghost and repair costs, instead of literal hours to days of hard won XP.

[Jorges]

Why the hell do people compare this game to release WoW? Its have been 7 years since it was released. I can understand some comparisons that wouldn't work with the WoW today, amount of content for example (Quality of content is still a good comparison point though). One has to realise that the Genre changes, even if slowly. Features that were inplemented then should have been improved on now and new ones should have been implemented.

 

The fact that SWTOR is (still) compared to Vanilla WoW makes me laugh, isn't SWTOR able to hold up to the standard that other MMO have shown (talking quality not quantity)? Show me comparisons of Rift and SWTOR, Cataclysm and SWTOR and why SWTOR is better. we are not living 7 years into the past, that is history or is SWTOR so backwards so it cannot be compared to newly releasd games and must be pitted against old incarnations of MMOs?

 

These are questions that we need to ask ourself (and developers), where did it go wrong so that SWTOR is not able to satisfy its gameplay when faced with something old. Even if this problem exists only for some it needs to be handled as a real threat to the longlivity of SWTOR and any further development need atleast keep the standards of today and not 7 years past.

[nubzz]

Why the hell do people compare this game to release WoW? Its have been 7 years since it was released. I can understand some comparisons that wouldn't work with the WoW today, amount of content for example (Quality of content is still a good comparison point though). One has to realise that the Genre changes, even if slowly. Features that were inplemented then should have been improved on now and new ones should have been implemented.

 

The fact that SWTOR is (still) compared to Vanilla WoW makes me laugh, isn't SWTOR able to hold up to the standard that other MMO have shown (talking quality not quantity)? Show me comparisons of Rift and SWTOR, Cataclysm and SWTOR and why SWTOR is better. we are not living 7 years into the past, that is history or is SWTOR so backwards so it cannot be compared to newly releasd games and must be pitted against old incarnations of MMOs?

 

These are questions that we need to ask ourself (and developers), where did it go wrong so that SWTOR is not able to satisfy its gameplay when faced with something old. Even if this problem exists only for some it needs to be handled as a real threat to the longlivity of SWTOR and any further development need atleast keep the standards of today and not 7 years past.

 

Probably comparing it to vanilla Wow because it was so popular and is still running today. I doubt it is because swtor is actually like a 7 year old game because it obviously is not.

[Morpholinium]

Why the hell do people compare this game to release WoW? Its have been 7 years since it was released. I can understand some comparisons that wouldn't work with the WoW today, amount of content for example (Quality of content is still a good comparison point though). One has to realise that the Genre changes, even if slowly. Features that were inplemented then should have been improved on now and new ones should have been implemented.

 

The fact that SWTOR is (still) compared to Vanilla WoW makes me laugh, isn't SWTOR able to hold up to the standard that other MMO have shown (talking quality not quantity)? Show me comparisons of Rift and SWTOR, Cataclysm and SWTOR and why SWTOR is better. we are not living 7 years into the past, that is history or is SWTOR so backwards so it cannot be compared to newly releasd games and must be pitted against old incarnations of MMOs?

 

These are questions that we need to ask ourself (and developers), where did it go wrong so that SWTOR is not able to satisfy its gameplay when faced with something old. Even if this problem exists only for some it needs to be handled as a real threat to the longlivity of SWTOR and any further development need atleast keep the standards of today and not 7 years past.

 

I don't think it's any more disingenuous to compare an at-release game to an at-release game, than to compare an at-release game to an established-for-nearly-a-decade game.

 

At least the at-release comparison allows a similar amount of total time for the developers to have corrected issues, versus the other comparison.

[Nurvus]

No, people were max level at one month...playing on a pvp server I remember them very well. At release it took about 8 to 10 days played to hit max level if you tried to hurry. Most people took a lot longer because they were new to mmo's and there was no endgame to speed level to. People still had the EQ attitude that the journey mattered onlike the wow mindset of "game starts at level cap".

 

Also keep in mind that a significant amount of game time in vanilla wow was just spent traveling from place to place. I get such a kick out of people complaining about swtor travel...they never played vanilla wow.

 

Why are you talking about people who played 8 hours/day everyday without fail?

 

WoW had Rare/Elite mobs worth killing.

WoW had different areas to start on, different paths to follow while leveling.

Most importantly, WoW came out 7 years ago...

 

What examples did WoW have when they started developping?

What other MMO experiences/examples did WoW have to follow?

 

And regarding the crap quest rewards, let me just say something:

The fact that SWToR gives you a full set of gear on every single flashpoint very boring.

In WoW, you would have a full set of gear after running Deadmines & Shadowfang Keep & Wailing Caverns.

I mean most dungeons had an incomplete assortment of loot (not saying perfect) that made crafting meaningful and worthwhile (by filling the gaps in dungeon gear).

 

You could start gathering mats for that 24 rare blacksmith mail chestpiece at roughly level 20. When you finally crafted it and equipped it, you could wear it for a decent while.

 

Now, in SWToR, everything is replaced at an astonishing rate... everything you craft worthless until you reach max level...

 

My gripe with SW:ToR is that with all the time they had to see WoW (and L2, GW, Aion and Rift) try/fail/succeed, they decided to scrap KOTOR system and went for a WoW clone on about 90% of the game mechanics.

 

You think every class having a stun is good?

The only thing in terms of combat I applaud BioWare for is the Energy/Heat/Energy Cells Resource-style, wich fills faster the fuller it is (reversed for Heat), allowing you a good Burst capability, but greatly rewarding restraint in the long run.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Nurvus

[gtmach]

WoW had night and day.

Weather.

Music all the time.

Critters.

Mobs patrolling.

Lots of crafting materials to farm... consumables. Made you walk in the world. Since herbs for many kind of potions, Felwood consumables in an awsome ambient music etc. You even had fish to get in the RL winter and summer etc

Dungeons... you had to move in the world, travel.. find enemies.

No silly loads.

 

Well wow didnt had much. But it had immersion with bad graphics but with good colour, music and ambients.

 

SWTOR got nothing of this in 2012 and it still fails at other "simple" important stuff.... like good coding.

 

I bet Bioware started to dev this game by making story and maps. Then added the rest.

A sloppy combat system, sloppy world, sloppy weather... sloppy wild life. Sloppy NPC's.

Crap travel system.

 

This game is inferior to vanilla wow... just got better graphics.

 

No.. I don't play wow for many years. I'm just comparing 2 diferent vanilla flavours and I think I prefer the original version.

 

First of all you should title your thread Vanilla WoW > SWTOR. Not really comparing individual points. Just bashing a game you're choosing to keep paying for.

 

But to address these points. Night/Day? Weather? Yes SWTOR lacks these but are they THAT important?????? Those parts of the MMO NEVER affected your gameplay. I never understood why people cry so much about them.

 

In simulation racing games I totally get it because it does Night/Day and weather effects do affect the driving. But MMOs???

 

There is music in this game quite a bit and the bulk is John Williams score. I'll admit it would be nice to have the option to have it loop endlessly. (Music didn't play all the time in WoW unless you enabled the option)

 

There are yellow beasts who won't attack you in SWTOR. They're like bigger critters in a way.

 

There are mob patrols in SWTOR so I think you're completely off base with that.

 

There are lots of crafting materials and you can run out in the world and farm the nodes. Once again I think you're off base here.

 

Dungeons were a cordoned off zone with a fuzzy portal out front. Didn't really have to look for enemies in that. But I'll give you the fact that yes....they were actually in the lands as opposed to a fleet.

 

There are quite a few load times in this game.

 

Combat is fine for me but could be better. World isn't sloppy. Wildlife isn't sloppy (I don't get what qualifies as sloppy for this)

 

This game has voice acting with dialogue and personal class stories that let you make choices throughout your journey.....forget to mention that little fact?

 

There are some points I agree with but overall this is a quality MMO if you give it a fair chance.

[Dronp]

I would say swtor is better than WoW at release simply because the leveling is a lot more polished than wow's was and there was no PvP to speak of in WoW at all. But that being said it's not THAT far off to me. WoW had quite a good progression curve at release. You had to work for your gear and effort was rewarded. Professions were a lot more useful at endgame than in swtor. You worked hard to get that arcanite reaper and when you did it felt good. End game dungeons like ubrs/scholo/strat were difficult but fun and provided a necessary step to raiding. You couldn't just waltz into molten core as a fresh 60, u had to get that blue set gear first. MC itself isn't anything groundbreaking by today's standards but was a lot of fun back then. Who doesn't remember the first time pulling the 2 molten giants and getting stomped into the ground? There were a lot of modern features missing but its not nearly as bad as the haters would want you to think.

[Faytte]

A month after release in vanilla WoW, there was also absolutely nothing to do.

 

UBRS maybe and farming people near Southshore, which I know a million people will claim was the greatest event ever, but it just wasn't.

 

And a month after SWTOR there is nothing to do.

 

Except Wow was 2004. Short of a decade ago.

 

WoW was made for chump change. SWTOR had a 200M budget. According to massively.com, WoWs full cost of creation, production, including all expacs to date and maintenance (including paying for call center people, infrastructure, etc) in 2010 was 200M dollars.

 

So yeah, WoW had nothing to do end game once upon a time in a galaxy far far away, but games dont get to do that anymore. They die when they cant deliver on end game. Proof you ask?

 

Warhammer sold over 1 million in its launch. People gave it insane scores (better than swtor for the most part) and heralded it as the 'end of warcraft'. Its F2P now. They couldnt keep players in the end game since it was so painful to participate in the lack of content.

 

I fail to see how voice overs will set SWTOR apart. Other games have plot that just as good, the only difference here is we have voice actors playing the parts for us. Dont get mistaken, this is not your story, its scripted BW plot. Your choices mean nothing in the course of the class quest; they all end the same way regardless.

 

Innovative? Not from where I'm standing.

[Logiick]

While I agree that WoW is a better game, and that anyone who denies that is simply ignorant, you need to learn to spell Vanilla.

[Holden_Dissent]

You are trying way too hard. Onyxia was a raid. It required a raid group. Outdoor bosses are also raids in that they require a raid group. That is kind of the end of the subject. Not sure why you keep arguing it. You seem kind of mad about it though.

 

outdoor bosses are not raids either.

[tkshinoda]

Just look at the forums in Vanilla WoW from back around its release date.

 

December 2004 about a month after game's release date (US):

 

General:

http://web.archive.org/web/20041127093213/http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/board.aspx?fn=wow-general

 

Technical Support:

http://web.archive.org/web/20041229091241/http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/board.aspx?fn=wow-tech-support

 

 

I see dozens of threads titled similar to many here are. FPS/Lag issues, Threats to cancel, stuck issues, bugs, unacceptable blizz, etc...

 

Oh lawd i remember the uproar on the wow forums, funny if you look at the tech support forum from that time and then check swtor's tech forum AMGAD THE SIMILARITY! SCARY!

 

It's just funny to see how many of the so claimed vanilla players know about the initial release of WoW, because it was down right horrible, but the so claimed vanilla players didnt join before end of vanilla, start of BC.

[Dria]

WoW had:

 

... aaand how do we know that he was not there

Well I can say for my side I was not there before spring 2005.

Now it's dead past.

[Surakis]

WoW had night and day.

 

No game-play effect.

 

Weather.

 

No game-play effect.

 

Music all the time.

 

You sure?

 

Critters.

 

No game-play effect (unless you count stacking DPS meters)

 

Mobs patrolling.

 

In SWTOR

 

Lots of crafting materials to farm... consumables. Made you walk in the world. Since herbs for many kind of potions, Felwood consumables in an awsome ambient music etc. You even had fish to get in the RL winter and summer etc

 

Plenty in SWTOR

 

Dungeons... you had to move in the world, travel.. find enemies.

 

Plenty in SWTOR

 

No silly loads.

 

Neve traveled by boat? Never entered an instance?

 

SWTOR got nothing of this in 2012 and it still fails at other "simple" important stuff.... like good coding.

 

If your OP has so many simple things missing, like facts, what about the important part of your post, the point?

[Dementza]

Way more polished? the fark are you talking about vanilla WoW had.

 

- Broken Classes (i mean totally broken way OP or simply just plain suck-a-donkey)

- 1 End game instance (UBRS)

- 9Hour queue timers

- Servers down for DAYS AT THE TIME

- No PvP system to speak off

- Quests could end up giving you **** for a warrior while you were a priest (this still affects the game to some degree)

- Looting that would get you stuck and could only be resloved by reloggin

- Animations would stick and **** up all the time

 

I could keep going but you didnt play WoW during it's vanilla hell.

 

Oh and to the OP: Weather wasn't added til patch 1.10 -> _10_ patches AFTER release.

 

This guy actually copy-pasted what others said in their previous replies!

 

LOL dude I bet you are such a bad liar and I bet you didn't even play vanilla wow!

 

I don't bet actually! I am 100 % sure of this!

[Adderdin]

IF SWTOR was a:

 

car: So what it has only 3 and a half wheels? along time ago there were no wheels!!!

 

So what it doesnt have windows?? microsoft didnt have windows when it started! it had dos!

 

So what it doesnt have anything to do at 50? when you are 50 years old its not like there is much left...

 

 

and so on and so on.

 

Remember Duke Nukem 3d? and Duke Nukem Forever that was released lately? the latter was slapped for not having todays graphics... well almost for everything, it didnt have todays standards, if it was released 5 years ago, perhaps it would be great.

 

The same deal is with SWTOR, we mmo players got used to the standards that are obvious in other mmo games, if those standards are not met by SWTOR, we will not give a flying duck about it.

 

SWTOR atm is going the DNForever way.

[Ringzero]

I want to mate with this thread.

 

So many fond memories of vanilla WoW. Started in March of 2005 and I remember Uther had not yet had it's first Onyxia kill. I got to participate in my guild's first Onyxia kill in May.

 

I played on and off through 2010. WoW didn't get boring, I just kinda grew out of it.

 

I've started SW:TOR because I love Star Wars and I was hoping for another WoW experience. I didn't get it. Not because SW:TOR sucks, but because it's different, I'm different, and the times are different.

 

SW:TOR is still a fun game. I'm not even 40 yet, so I clearly don't know anything about anything and shouldn't even be talking until I've been farming UBRS for 3 months. But in my (probably wrong) opinion, there are two things that could make SW:TOR feel more like WoW and allow people to find more "stuff to do" at cap: 1) higher server populations--I want to see dozens (and hundreds!) of people around me even if the textures suck d*ck; let me turn down textures in the settings and have it actually improve my performance. 2) more sandbox worlds with fun little easter eggs; too many of the planets are corridor-ed; and I want the equivalent of farming the rare elite Bannok Grimaxe in LBRS over and over in the slim chance I'll get the plans for the Arcanite Reaper; or killing Plugger over and over in BRD for the Barman Shanker.

 

Or maybe there's a lot more to this game that we just don't know about since it's been out barely over a month.

[Mandrax]

While I agree that WoW is a better game, and that anyone who denies that is simply ignorant, you need to learn to spell Vanilla.

 

Vanilla and TBC might have been better, but in all honesty I've been less bored in this game than I was during WotLK and Cataclysm in WoW.

 

If that makes me ignorant, so be it.

[Surakis]

IF SWTOR was a car:

 

Folks like you would say it isn't a real car because it didn't have heated leather seats.

[Othellus]

While I agree that WoW is a better game, and that anyone who denies that is simply ignorant, you need to learn to spell Vanilla.

 

Opinions are like buttholes. everyone's got one. and some people are one. But while WoW may be a better game, it took years to get there, and from what I've read of the next expansion it's going in the other direction.

 

othellus

[Kromzor]

Oh lawd i remember the uproar on the wow forums, funny if you look at the tech support forum from that time and then check swtor's tech forum AMGAD THE SIMILARITY! SCARY!

 

It's just funny to see how many of the so claimed vanilla players know about the initial release of WoW, because it was down right horrible, but the so claimed vanilla players didnt join before end of vanilla, start of BC.

 

You're missing the point.

 

Most of Vanilla WoW's problems were hardware related... too many players wanting in at the same time.

 

TOR? Already has more than a couple threads complaining about Dead Servers.

 

Nobody complained about no rewards for PvP or a ranking system because they were having too much fun raiding towns/cities and fighting across the entire expanse of STV and Booty Bay.

 

The first 1.5yrs of WoW were bloody fantastic and its why people stayed despite 30+ min queues, despite the fact 10-15 people from your 40 man raid could get randomly d/c'ed and put an end to your night.

 

People who act like WoW had no competition at the time either have no clue. It went head to head against a firmly entrenched powerhouse in Everquest (they're still putting out expansions for EQ1) DAOC, and had EQ2 on the horizon. But WoW was simply a better game.

[TotalKitty]

Err.. why compare Swtor to vanilla WoW?

 

If anything, Swtor should be compred to MMO games in their current state.

That's like considering buying a new car, and then compare to a car made 7 years ago.

 

 

Don't be stupid.

[hopbounce]

I find it funny how almost all the people reminiscing about how good WoW was, refer to open world PvP as an example...

 

You do know open world PvPers have always been a vocal minority in MMORPGs, right?

[Jederix]

haha I had forgotten about that one. That bug existed for a LONG time as well. Nothing like hopping on a boat and going afk only to come back in the middle of the ocean dead of fatigue.

 

Captain Placeholder, anyone (I believe that was the NPC added to automatically transport you to the zone the boat couldn't manage to take you to; I didn't play WoW when that happened, just remember hearing about Captain Place holder and thinking this was why he was in the game).