I don't understand why Stealth *INCREASES* aggro range.

[TaintedSquirrel]

Level 21, just did my first "real" flashpoint (on Operative) Hammer Station.

Group was standing ~30m away from the boss, buffing up... No problem.

 

I pop my stealth, get a red crosshair on my character (?) and then instant aggro.

Nearly wiped because the tank wasn't ready.

 

What the hell man? OUT of stealth we weren't aggroing, I activated Stealth, DID NOT MOVE, and suddenly aggro from nowhere?

 

Without a gap closer and now I can't even use Stealth to get near the bosses before the fight starts? Guess I will have to keep throwing Frag Nade and 1 mob just to fill the gap.

[Eliezer]

Level 21, just did my first "real" flashpoint (on Operative) Hammer Station.

Group was standing ~30m away from the boss, buffing up... No problem.

 

I pop my stealth, get a red crosshair on my character (?) and then instant aggro.

Nearly wiped because the tank wasn't ready.

 

What the hell man? OUT of stealth we weren't aggroing, I activated Stealth, DID NOT MOVE, and suddenly aggro from nowhere?

 

Without a gap closer and now I can't even use Stealth to get near the bosses before the fight starts? Guess I will have to keep throwing Frag Nade and 1 mob just to fill the gap.

 

More likely it was bugged. Does that happen to you normally?

[pipda]

This has been how it is forever. Happens to Assassins too.

 

I got into the habit of just not even using stealth on boss fights. The range it activates is way to inconsistent and I can't count the number of times I have been behind my group chilling while some one runs over tactics and the boss puts his target on me and off he goes. Just not worth the DPS loss from having to start miles away and still risk getting knocked out of stealth.

 

Just get used to Stealth being useless on bosses.

[texasfanboy]

It's bad enough that you're boarding their ship, but you're going to stab them in the back and not give them a chance to even defend themselves? RAAAAAGGGE!

 

Or something like that.

 

I've seen this in other MMOs as well.

 

I just make it a habit to hang a good distance back, or even better, behind an object, until the tank pulls.

[Slyfe_Evolved]

If you look at the buffs the bosses have up you will know without a shadow of a doubt which ones you can sneak up on and which ones you can't. Those that have the buff up you simply wait until the tank attacks then proceed to go up and attack. Not a bug, and easily avoided.

[Achmed]

More likely it was bugged. Does that happen to you normally?

 

not bugged. Mainly HM Boss game mechanic. they nearly all have a stealth detection buff which will dmg an kick you out of stealth.

but ive also seen normal strong mobs with that mechanic on illum f.e.

[Reifier]

I have experienced this same thing in endgame HM at 50. The boss's stealth detection is bugged and will target you at a larger range than non-stealth will aggro the boss it's so broken. If you get targeted you have time to back away but still, this shouldn't be farther aggro than non-stealth. I feel like someone just needs to flip a + to a - somewhere

[Arcadionx]

Same thing here. Without the increased stealth. The bosses actually detect me up to 33% farther away than unstealthed guildies... Completely insane. With the 3 pt talent. It gets closer to unstealthed (if not exactly the same) but you still cannot get closer than 15-20 meters at best.

[DaniWes]

I have experienced this same thing in endgame HM at 50. The boss's stealth detection is bugged and will target you at a larger range than non-stealth will aggro the boss it's so broken. If you get targeted you have time to back away but still, this shouldn't be farther aggro than non-stealth. I feel like someone just needs to flip a + to a - somewhere

 

Unlike most people that wrote in this thread, Reifier is right. it's a bug. Being in stealth increases your agro range by about 20 meters compared to non stealth.

[Arcadionx]

Unlike most people that wrote in this thread, Reifier is right. it's a bug. Being in stealth increases your agro range by about 20 meters compared to non stealth.

 

Your statement proves mine wrong how exactly?

[DaniWes]

It doesn't.

[KelbornX]

Your statement proves mine wrong how exactly?

 

Most (adj):

1: greatest in quantity, extent, or degree <the most ability>

2: the majority of <most people>

 

Might want to read the part of the quote that you bolded. Namely, the second word.

 

Gotta love people who rage before they read.

[Reyph]

Im not so sure its a bug, but rather just a weird mechanic to prevent people sneaking up on bosses that are main bosses in flashpoints. The range is 30m. If you're in stealth and out of 30m, you should be fine, but within the 30m stealth detect range, the boss with spot you, break your stealth, and attack. Its dumb that they attack you at 30m while stealthed.

 

Side note, if you are stealthed, and the boss is engaged in combat, you can sneak up no problem, just dont be the first one within 30m and in stealth.

 

Also, I believe that the reason the stealth detect range is set so high is due to the similar ability the detection droids on tatooine have that protect bases. These droids are placed throughout faction bases to prevent enemy faction players to easily sneak in and out of enemy bases and gank people. As an op, it was a pain trying to gank repubs in their base cause the droids always detected me from 30m.

[Arrys]

Unlike most people that wrote in this thread, Reifier is right. it's a bug. Being in stealth increases your agro range by about 20 meters compared to non stealth.

 

You assume it's a bug and not intentional coding to prevent stealth exploits of some nature.

 

It isn't an unheard of feature of MMO design to have a stealth sentry that treats a stealthed charachter like a lambchop. And considering you could put together a stealth tank healer DPS group between operatives and Sorcs and theoretically bypass content I could see such a feature intentionally being included to force engagements on all desired fights.

 

I know some Hoth standard quests have MOB's set to the same metric as well. So no quick sneak to collect the objective have to fight your way through.

 

I wouldn't assume it's a bug. There is clearly a sentry detection ability with about a 30 range that results in aggro about a GCD after you get the targetting icon. Someone coded that including the warning. Doesn't imply bug to me.

[KelbornX]

You assume it's a bug and not intentional coding to prevent stealth exploits of some nature.

 

It isn't an unheard of feature of MMO design to have a stealth sentry that treats a stealthed charachter like a lambchop. And considering you could put together a stealth tank healer DPS group between operatives and Sorcs and theoretically bypass content I could see such a feature intentionally being included to force engagements on all desired fights.

 

I know some Hoth standard quests have MOB's set to the same metric as well. So no quick sneak to collect the objective have to fight your way through.

 

I wouldn't assume it's a bug. There is clearly a sentry detection ability with about a 30 range that results in aggro about a GCD after you get the targetting icon. Someone coded that including the warning. Doesn't imply bug to me.

 

What's being called a bug is the fact that you can be standing there with your group twiddling your thumbs and not drawing aggro from the boss, but as soon as you enter stealth (at the same assumed safe distance), *bam* the boss gives you the hate stare and proceeds to aggro.

 

I understand your point of NPCs being able to detect stealth to prevent exploits (and there are still a few Heroics than can be solo'd via CC from Stealth)... but it's pretty ridiculous that bosses with the stealth detection buff's aggro range toward a stealthed character is greater than the aggro range while the character is not in stealth. That's the problem here.

 

Also, what are you able to do from 30 meters away while in stealth (I'm using the range you gave in your example)? Not sure about you, but I can't interact with objects/nodes from that far away nor do I have any in-stealth abilities with a 30 meter range. So there's no logical reason that these bosses are purposefully aggroing at this range. Which makes what's occuring a bug.

[TaintedSquirrel]

The gold droids in Hammer Station were triggering the effect, as well as bosses (Champion quality).

I'm pretty sure standard gold mobs aren't classified as "bosses". I ceased using stealth for the entire fp because it was too risky. Most pulls involve at least 1 gold mob and I don't want to accidentally cause more wipes. It's a sad day when I can't even use a fundamental mechanic my class is built around... What's the thought process behind that...?

 

And the issue is, activating stealth triggers the bosses even when unstealthed was fine. Unacceptable.

Edited February 4, 2012 by TaintedSquirrel

[Hamchuck]

Frustrating as it is, I personally don't think it's a bug either.

 

Anyone who's ever played a rogue in WoW will know that there are plenty of mobs who can see you in stealth. They even get the glowy bubble above their heads to warn you. It's been a long while for me, but I'm sure THOSE mobs could see me in stealth farther away than the aggro range of non-stealthed players, too.

 

It's kind of a tunnel vision. Think about high school. The troublemakers tended to sit in the back of the class. Maybe they thought they could get away with more -- which they did, in some cases. However, the teachers also knew this and would always set their sights on the back of the classroom. They didn't pay attention to what kinds of not-paying-attention the kids up front were doing because they focused on what was farther away. If I had a cell phone back then (old people are old), I probably would have spent a lot of my time texting or surfing the net. Instead, I read other non-class related things.

 

So I see this stealth aggro range as a similar thing. Bosses so busy looking for stealthers that they miss what's right in front of them. Pff. People do it all the time.

[Arrys]

What's being called a bug is the fact that you can be standing there with your group twiddling your thumbs and not drawing aggro from the boss, but as soon as you enter stealth (at the same assumed safe distance), *bam* the boss gives you the hate stare and proceeds to aggro.

 

I understand your point of NPCs being able to detect stealth to prevent exploits (and there are still a few Heroics than can be solo'd via CC from Stealth)... but it's pretty ridiculous that bosses with the stealth detection buff's aggro range toward a stealthed character is greater than the aggro range while the character is not in stealth. That's the problem here.

 

Also, what are you able to do from 30 meters away while in stealth (I'm using the range you gave in your example)? Not sure about you, but I can't interact with objects/nodes from that far away nor do I have any in-stealth abilities with a 30 meter range. So there's no logical reason that these bosses are purposefully aggroing at this range. Which makes what's occuring a bug.

 

I'ld suspect the range was chosen based on their worst case in game geometry point a broad stairway entry plaza with edge bound sentries that for design purposes(read lucas content editing overrides) was wanted in a specific configuration then copied to all desired stealth detection locations.

 

It may also incorporate long term stealth increase effectiveness plans.

 

It's worth debating asking a question as being to long a range and deserving of shortening. Not describing as a bug IMHO.

[Selemnos]

Anyone who's ever played a rogue in WoW will know that there are plenty of mobs who can see you in stealth. They even get the glowy bubble above their heads to warn you. It's been a long while for me, but I'm sure THOSE mobs could see me in stealth farther away than the aggro range of non-stealthed players, too.

 

They didn't. This is the first MMO I've played where stealth actually has an aggro range penalty attached (and a rather severe one at that).

 

I can understand immunity to stealth (i.e. being in stealth confers no benefit for detection range) but punishing stealth dependent classes that depend on being able to open from stealth in a PVE environment is idiotic.

[Mikkeos]

AFAIK this only happens when you go into stealth.

(Usually?) You can walk to the location while stealthed with no problem.

 

There are places where you can use this feature for pulling.

[Phoboo]

This needs to be adressed.

[Achmed]

impressive how everything players dont like must be a bug XD

 

if you want a logic explanation use this:

out of stealth mobs tend to ingore you the higher level you are.

but their "stealth vision" wont let them see your level att all, thats why they aggro at 30m range. see of it like a night vision scope. ill doubt ull recognize anyone with these things on

 

i still say its not a bug. and tbh, how hard is it to drop out of stealth once you see the big fat target sign above your head? you have like 2 or 3 seconds for that left.

 

if you want to place your hidden strike that badly, simply step back, let the tank aggro and then walk in to HS him.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Achmed

[Sun-Runner]

Unlike most people that wrote in this thread, Reifier is right. it's a bug. Being in stealth increases your agro range by about 20 meters compared to non stealth.

 

It is not a bug.

 

It is a buff that the mobs either cast on themselves or a buff that is constantly toggled on for the mob. It shows up on the mobs active buff bar.

 

You can watch the things cast the buff (for the ones with the cast version); usually droids; it looks like a number of little probes dropping down and then scanning around with green beams.

 

I repeat: It is not a bug. It is a mob buff.

[Stigas]

Bug or not, it's a stupid, lazy *** way of making sure people can't skip bosses. Figure out another way without grossly molesting a class mechanic.

[Sun-Runner]

Bug or not, it's a stupid, lazy *** way of making sure people can't skip bosses. Figure out another way without grossly molesting a class mechanic.

 

It is simple, elegant and effective.

 

It also happens to be incredibly frustrating to the stealth-user and their group (if the stealth-user insists on continuing to use stealth). I can only assume that the Bioware Austin division of EA considers that to be a positive feature of the current implementation.

 

What reason would they have to change it? We don't like it? They know that already.

 

So ... what reason can we give them to change it? ... what alternative can we offer that is superior (from their perspective) to the current implementation?